is Saylor sued by Washington (DC) an attack to BTC?

[Jating]

I've already seen a few Twitter threads talking and connecting the dots to BTC so quickly after the news is released. The story is so easy to spin, I'd rather ignore them or just use it as a data for my trades. If it has no effect then I'd just forget it, if it does, even if the reasoning is ridiculous, there's no harm with acting accordingly. Not the first time the market will act so emotionally and irrationally, and won't be the last either.

True, I would say that those who are connecting the dots have their narratives behind (maybe anti -bitcoin), or just simply ignorance of Saylor. He is not like Elon Musk, who always open his mouth to talk about bitcoin and then do the opposite. They can't blame Saylor for seeing the future, a visionary and what bitcoin can bring. It's that the Office of the Attorney General see some merits on the case to sue him and not bitcoin. Heck the amount that he is being sued could be paid by him easily and this is not coming from his bitcoin investment.

[franky1]

got to laugh
so reading the article..

he has been a resident of florida for a decade, and pays his taxes in florida and such.(thus not tax evading)
but because he spent more then the 6 month threshold in washington in 2014. they want to imply that he owes hundreds of millions of dollars to washington.. oh and hen tripple that amount and add on fee's too

seems they just were not happy that florida got its full income tax for a year where florida should have only got 50% and washington get 50% for 2014

i think washington should be mad at florida for taking washingtons half that washington things it deserves

if i made say $100m(random number i chose) with a 40% tax amount
and i actually paid to some government the $40m
then i paid my piece. i done my part

its for them to then fight over which department/jurisdiction should get a cut of it
not have another state demand another 40m and then triple it and add fee's because that state didnt get their share

using my random number demo
easily solution.. get washington treasury to call up florida treasury and ask for the half of the $40m(demo number) that florida got

....

also. things i have done myself in my travels
if i plan to go to a country for 3 months. then go somewhere else. and then come back for another 3 months.

usually means trying to find a rental that only handles monthly/3month rents.(hard to find and usually more of a premium to book those in 22 short 3 month allotments)
however finding a 9-12 month rental surprisingly is cheaper that 2x3month

so although it may show i have a rental for 9 months. does not mean i sleep in that rentals bed for more then 6+ months non stop.

oh..
and if he was to tax evade. there are such simpler loopholes that can be used. far more then being a nomad/traveller.. far easier than being away from family friends/work for 6 months.

[dkbit98]

In some comments I've read it's an attack on Bitcoin. They first sanctioned Tornado Cash and accounts are to be frozen, now they start with the biggest crypto personality Micheal Saylor. What are your comments about it, are Bitcoiners next?

Good luck trying to catch all the bitcoiners around the world 
I don't know what Saylor was doing, but taxes are getting crazy, and there are no connections between Micheal Saylor and Tornado Cash, but in future they could always try to add new restrictions and regulations for Bitcoin and mining.
I think people need to understand that governments should be working for the people, we pay them and we can always fire them, one way or another.

[franky1]

I think people need to understand that governments should be working for the people, we pay them and we can always fire them, one way or another.

and thats the illusion
imagine a jurisdiction like the inside of a gym
while on their property its their rules
they do allow you as gym members to vote to change the management team every 4-5 years, and have a not so public mechanism to petition/lobby to change the rules. but the only way to never pay any gym membership fee, is at basic level to leave the gym and not return within x period. or there are other loopholes if you do some research
but being outside of one means your inside another gym there the gyms will argue which gym you are a member of

[DigitalMonk]

Government prints plenty of cash through the Central Bank . Government should not have rights to collect tax at all. All the tax people pay should be donation to charity.

We need to work out and   change Governments protocol of tax collection. Tax was introduced by the old imperial governing system. That time gold was the currency. No Government could just create gold as they wish. So for the public service Government needed tax from the public.

Now we are living in the modern world. Government is printing huge quantities of cash  by quatitagive easing. So the tax should  ot be necessary for Government to raise money for public service. Let's work together and enforce Government to delete the taxation protocol and free humanity from imperialis.

[franky1]

you have to remember, fiat is their product/patent.
they decide how much they produce and they decide how much they can take back.
they set the rules for its use and they set the limits of who how when people can use it.
no one alive today has had experience of any other system that pre-dates this system so talking about it as if we had something better before is talking about how other people along time ago had something better.. not us

thats why bitcoin was invented. for us to have something thats not their patent/product.

we can try to lobby/petition the voted in[gym managers] to change some rules but i think they would be very reluctant to change their [gym] fee policies

they only want to do it when they feel it will earn them something. like voting hem in in the next 4-5 years

[bbc.reporter]

Re: is Saylor sued by Washington  (DC) an attack to BTC?

Not impossible, but meh that's too far of a stretch imo. It's not even the first time[1] that the authorities pursued him for other reasons.


[1] https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2000-186.txt

Agreed, to mention that this is an attack on bitcoin is head shaking. No one can escape the tax collectors in America hehehe. They are famous for this. This is also why the saying in life you cannot escape death and taxes was invented because the IRS always makes everyone pay their taxes.

If Michael Saylor is being charged for tax evasion, this is because he did not pay his taxes, this is not because he holds bitcoin.

[Poker Player]

I've already seen a few Twitter threads talking and connecting the dots to BTC so quickly after the news is released.

The argument has an overwhelming logic, underlying many cases, which is as follows:

Michael Saylor holds Bitcoin.
Michael Saylor is (allegedly) a tax fraudster.
Therefore, people who hold Bitcoin are tax fraudsters.

If there is anyone foolish enough not to see the fallacy, I won't even waste a second explaining it.

[franky1]

if saylor did get X income in 2014+ and income tax was Y% in florida (0%). and he did pay Y% of X to florida($0) by filing tax papers in florida. which were accepted by florida.
then there is no fraud

then he can prove he did not evade tax by showing his florida tax filings that were accepted by florida..
by which washington, if not happy.. should take up the argument with florida..

funny part is the court filing admits he takes a plane out of washington alot (leaves washington=not stays), which means the number of nights in washington are less than they will admit to

next funny part is they mention a "relator" who has personal knowledge of MS, part of his inner circle,  a personal witness and confidant(and now whistleblower..)
.. someone in MS's friends group is jealous

funny how they want to say if he leaves washington for temporary absense periods (a week or two)
EG if he works one day in DC but then goes back to florida for 6 days. they treat returning to florida  as a 'temporary absense', but still treat the week as 7 days in washington.
all because he owns property in DC
where as spending just a couple hours in DC is treated as residing in DC for that day

https://oag.dc.gov/sites/default/files/2022-08/Tributum%20v.%20Saylor%20-%20DC%20FCA%20Complaint_0.pdf

22. To calculate the days establishing statutory residency, “temporary absences from a District residence (i.e., vacations, hospitalization, business trips, and the like[)] shall be considered as periods of District residency.” D.C. Mun. Regs. tit. 9, § 105.6; see also D.C. Code § 47-1801.04(42) (“[A]n individual’s absence from the District for temporary or transitory
purposes shall not be regarded as changing his domicile or place of abode.”). Additionally, if an
individual only spends a partial day in the District, that day nonetheless counts toward
establishing statutory residency. See Bechtel v. D.C. Office of Tax & Revenue, D.C. OAH 2016-
OTR-00017, 2018 D.C. Off. Adj. Hear. LEXIS 6969 *18 n.53 (D.C. Office of Admin. Hearings
Nov. 30, 2018).

so this is where i think they are trying to say he stayed in DC for more then 6 months because they are excluding all his weekend/non work day trips back to florida. ignore any days/weeks he is away for business stuff, and pretend even when on vacation on some exotic island means he is still in DC at the same time..

i can see MS easily fighting the claims made by an old buddy of his, though i expect it will just be settled at a discount rate.. its only civil court case after all
..
got to love the contradictions of the accuser

FILED UNDER SEAL
-18-
51. In the ensuing years, Saylor’s scheme has continued unabated. If anything, he
became more brazen in his fraud. After attempting to regularly visit Florida in 2013—although
never abandoning his domicile in the District—Saylor returned to spending an increasing portion
of his year residing at Trigate

admits going to florida alot
suggests he spent some time in a penthouse called trigate for "portions" of time in 2013
however

33. In 2009, Saylor embarked on a major renovation project [..]Saylor hired an architect and contractors to tear down the walls and fixtures of the three penthouses he purchased to combine them into a single open unit.[..] He also dubbed the amalgamated residence “Trigate.” [..] construction began in November 2010, but construction of the extensive and elaborate finishes continued for four more years. Saylor’s architect posted photos to Facebook of the project, including regular updates from 2012 to 2014 showing progress. The renovation continued until Saylor formally opened Trigate in the fall of 2014.

thus not living in a construction site in 2013

additionally

36. Also, when Saylor travels from the District, he does so almost exclusively by
private jet. Until MicroStrategy’s 1998 IPO, Saylor traveled commercially in first class, like
most of his executive contemporaries. However, on the “roadshow” preceding the IPO, Saylor
accepted the private jet itinerary recommended by Merrill Lynch, the lead banker for the IPO,
and thus forever changed his approach to travel. Saylor became fascinated with the ease and
efficiency of flying privately, and in the decades since then, among his thousands of flights
across the world, he has only flown commercially when it was the only available option for
travel

1998-2022 =24 years
"thousands" of flights.. lets call it 2400 for easy math
so he was flying OUT of DC atleast 50 times a year(2.4k/24=100. = 50 out 50 in)
so he was going somewhere 50 times a year out of state.. out of 52 weeks a year.
seems to me thats more times away than within.

if he was only doing 2-4-10 flights a year, maybe they would have a case. but atleast 33 times.. well now they really need to prove the 183day rule


lastly
millions of investors own property in lots of places. if just owning property for more then 6 months = have to pay income tax there..  due to ignoring they days they are not in the property(facepalm)

then dang. someone earning $100m(demo number) with 6 properties in 6 states with 20% tax. means that person pays $120m in tax combined on $100m income meaning they are losing money by working

[Majestic-milf]

 The AG also alleged in the lawsuit that the then financial officer of Microstrategy approached saylor and cautioned him on the matter of tax evasion and how it might affect the company and further went ahead to reach an agreement to reducing his pay to a $1m.

I doubt that which such an effort taken by the company, they should be roped in with him as from the looks of it, this is his own problem. And again, in as much as he has about 17,732 worth of Bitcoin, I strongly doubt it would affect Bitcoin. Elon Musk sold off major of Tesla's Bitcoin, nothing happened.

[franky1]

DC is only after him for his income tax..
.. not his capital gains or corporation tax. so its not really bitcoin related..

.. its more of just a social interest event of someone that is a bitcoiner, having legal drama over personal issues outside of bitcoin

that said from the sounds of the "whistleblower" the only people in saylors "personal circle" that could lose or gain from whistleblowing about his income tax drama, is his accountant/cfo

could this be a case of saylor firing/not paying his accountant and jealousy/vengeance ensued to try to get some money in damages(25% of proceeds) out of saylor, whilst using whistleblower status to not have the accountant/cfo in legal trouble aswell for advising saylor

[NotATether]

As others said it does not concern the BTC community, this is Saylor's problem personally.

We are told on one side that it is important to pay your taxes for your country's welfare, on the other side we're told that it's more glamorous to evade paying your taxes to live a more luxurious lifestyle - this is at the expense of being poached by public opinion.

In all cases everywhere, public opinion is the only thing that matters, since that is the culmunation of the moral compass of all the citizens, including government officials and the wealthy. So no, it wasn't right for Saylor to jump his income taxes.

[bbc.reporter]

DC is only after him for his income tax..
.. not his capital gains or corporation tax. so its not really bitcoin related..

Also, Michael Saylor has no capital gains where the IRS can find a reason to tax hehe. However, he can ask from the IRS to give him a tax break because of his big capital losses on bitcoin of more than $1 billion hehehehe. He can make a settlement with the government to use the tax break for the income tax hehehehe.

[franky1]

DC is only after him for his income tax..
.. not his capital gains or corporation tax. so its not really bitcoin related..

Also, Michael Saylor has no capital gains where the IRS can find a reason to tax hehe. However, he can ask from the IRS to give him a tax break because of his big capital losses on bitcoin of more than $1 billion hehehehe. He can make a settlement with the government to use the tax break for the income tax hehehehe.

he has not made losses either

he has sold no bitcoin. meaning no selling at a loss. thus no loss to declare.

the 6 month tax residency thing is something both uk and america follow
the capital gains AT SELL apply to both
income tax based on residency is the same

and yet seems a few people in this forum dont even know these basics.
if you dont know what the rules are then you guys dont know how to avoid (rather than evade) tax
.. its worth learning the basics to atleast work out the legal loophopes

whether you are ok with paying or against paying tax.. for both sides its worth knowing tax rules so you can protect yourself from under-overpaying/avoiding-evading

[rdbase]

Saylor's link to bitcoin is a pretty weak one, he has a company that is not even a bitcoin company, he also just owns some bitcoins. What you explained is not even bitcoin related but a tax evasion related issue which is not about taxes related to bitcoin either!
How can this even begin to be about an attack to BTC?!

It is not an attack on bitcoin. Taxes have to be collected no matter how rich you are and where you decide to move to. Sounds alot like what John McAfee had been doing for years until they put out a warrant for his arrest if he ever touch US soil.

This is not new to Saylor. He had been sued by the SEC before.