🤯 Trust Dice | sorry but we reduced your winnings by 90% but it’s okay 👌

[Oceat]

@Blockchayne have a lot of bad experiences in casino especially casinos in this forum you can check the history of his posts
Is this just a coincidence? impossible  I often see extortion efforts like this and try to damage other casino reputation
I don't accuse anyone of just talking about the possibility 

OP could reply these questions here if he's clean or not since most casinos that are already here has a long history to tell and the amount we are talking about here isn't too big just to cause enough trouble, yet OP couldn't answer.

We really need the OP's explanation here since we are committed to know the truth of what was actually happening but if OP couldn't answer or tell us something then the side of the casino the truth.

Sometimes businesses have the right to change the rules of winning but if this was the casino's fault, then I think there's a misunderstanding that should be fix by calm communication since the amount involved isn't just worth the trouble.

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[Blockchayne]

@Blockchayne have a lot of bad experiences in casino especially casinos in this forum you can check the history of his posts
Is this just a coincidence? impossible  I often see extortion efforts like this and try to damage other casino reputation
I don't accuse anyone of just talking about the possibility 

No it's not a coincidence. It's the result of a combination of several things.

1. There is no shortage of malicious and dishonest operators in this space and
2. When I encounter these less than ethical practices or underhanded tactics I do my part in bringing them to light. Accountability is a good thing generally.   
3. My account is 6+ years old
4. I explore new sites often and play at a relatively high frequency.

Feel free to review any of my previous posts. Using the frequency of someone's bad experiences is not a good measure of the validity of each individual grievance. I would encourage you to examine any of these previous Complaints and form your own assessment of them on their individual merits.

To the question of extortion, It could not possibly be extortion because I have not requested any funds from anyone.  Since the beginning I stated my intentions and have maintained that throughout this discussion. Lastly, why is my history or personal conduct relevant when they have admitted to doing everything I have stated and they have admitted to reviewing this extensively and investigating it.  We are not in disagreement about what has happened. 

The only question remaining is whether or not the behavior is fair, acceptable and tolerable to the community or whether it's unacceptable, Misleading, and exploitative.

We both agree what happened.

[Blockchayne]

OP, Trust Dice's official representative here, Coinbox1, has already responded to your allegations with a lengthy explanation. It's on the Batman x TrustDice! Win Free spins and more! official thread, where you also raised your concern.

It seems the official representative of Trust Dice has counter allegations against you. You're now being accused of having ill-intentions. You're now being accused of misleading us with partial screen grabs.

Would you care to respond to it?

Yes I have responded at length on the other thread in regards to his allegations.   I will repost here as well.    

Here is my response to his claim.

I have no ill intentions first of all.

My intentions are to hold your site accountable for using such sleight of hand magic tricks to chip away at your players balances and to fine print gimmicks  that are hidden away and only revealed when it's time to cash out.  

I cropped out the activate promo code because I did not see the relevance.  That's your big smoking gun on how Intentionally mislead the community with Ill intentions because I cropped out that largely irrelevant section? You even said yourself that you didn't know why I woild do that.

WITH or WITHOUT that element included it does not change anything that either you or I said.  That's why I left it out. To focus on the relevant matter which is your unethical and misleading bonus promotions and terms.

These are *shady* casino practices, removing balances, hiding behind max limits on a bonus that I won 0.3 mbtc. Is total BS!

I spun 10 free spins and won 0.3 mbtc.  There should've been no maximum limits on anything beyond the 0.3 mbtc.  *No other online casino operates under these ridiculous terms* that you have presented.  So yes your reputation is being directly questioned and for good reason.  

I reviewed the promo email and there is nothing stating about limits or about the fact that if you win even the smallest amount on those freespins that your entire balance will be locked up after a few spins because of the way you calculate playthrough  



Every wager you make reduced your real money balance and every amount won as a result of those real money wagers is credited to your bonus balance (including if it’s a break-even tie) which is locked up by an exhausting 40X playthrough.

You all did a thorough review and in-depth investigation and you found *no issues* whatsoever — this means that it’s you’re *intentionally* operating under these ridiculous methods of calculations which systematically convert your users real money deposits into bonus funds (which are locked up with a 40x playthrough) — even when the amount won from the original freespins is a trivial amount as is the case was mine.

It’s no wonder that you felt the need to include **TRUST** in the name of your organization because deception often requires overcompensation in order to fool others into believing false claims.  

This is one of the reasons that some low-income or poor people will buy expensive shoes and jewelry, because they want to fool others into believing that they have a lot of money when in fact they do not.
This is one of the reasons that Little Men with little D’s often drive big trucks with big tires because they want to fool others into believing they are big men when in fact they are not.
And this same idea is the reason that shady websites that operate under misleading and/or false pretenses would include **TRUST** in the name of their operations - to fool people into believing that they can be trusted — when in fact they cannot  

Again, including the ‘Activate Promo Code’ does not help justify your ill-intended policies whatsoever. Your “gotcha” accusation is laughable.  

Lastly, Which of us benefits from misleading Bitcointalk members? I do not. But you?.. well that’s up to everyone else to decide.

[darkangel11]

I spun 10 free spins and won 0.3 mbtc.  There should've been no maximum limits on anything beyond the 0.3 mbtc.  *No other online casino operates under these ridiculous terms* that you have presented.  So yes your reputation is being directly questioned and for good reason.  

This is the part open for misinterpretation by the casino.

You enter a promo of 10 free spins and then keep playing for an hour with a total of 100 free spins, with 50 spins before taking the promo and 40 after. You win a significant amount of money and they cut it because you took part in the promo. It should be clearly marked by the casino from when to when you're spinning for free and those funds should be kept aside so that is not mixed with the money won outside of the promo. Otherwise they can do what they want and wait for you to win something to tell you that those last 10 spins were the promotional ones and that last win is going to be limited.

[Blockchayne]

sorry, correct me if  I am wrong(and sorry if I am repeating what you said), your complaint is that they included the money you deposited into their promo, right? I mean you were supposed to get 3.3mbtc (after you cleared the wagering requirement) then plus your deposited coins which 2mbtc, so you are supposed to have 5.3mbtc in total but because they included your deposited amount into their promo you only got 3.3mbtc? reading through it, it seems like a huge misunderstanding. I hope trustdice could properly explain as to why they included your deposited money into their promo.

It looks like his deposits and wins from the free spins were mixed so the casino could come up with a counter-argument that he probably wouldn't reach the 40x wagering requirement without using the 2mbtc.

It's quite a messed up system and there has to be a way to separate bets using promotions and those regular deposits. Maybe there's an option there to forfeit the bonus winnings so he could just play normally with the 2mbtc.

  You bring up a valid point, the casino could have made that point and it may hae been true, but they did not go that route and instead said that they were exposing my ill intensions because i cropped out some irrelevant section of the screenshot.

And you are exactly right, it's a messed up system, it's a horrendous system and woefully in favor of the house. Once again, NO other casino uses these methods or means with the wager requirements.

I remember seeing similar cases on other casinos where they'd have a limit on how much you can get out of their bonus.

Even if the bonus they're giving out doesn't seem to be fair, there's nothing we could do against the terms and conditions of their bonuses since it's their casino they can also update it at any time. If you're hoping for a better bonus then it's best to not take the current bonuses they offer and hope the other players do the same so they'd get the message and make some improvements.

This is not an objection to the max limit though, and i want that to be well understood.

This is an objection to how the limit is applied.

once more: I was given 10 free spins that carried a maximum win amount of 3.3 mbtc.

the actual winnings that resulted were only 0.3 mbtc.
the maximum limit shoouldve been applied in the event that i won MORE than the maximum 3.3 mbtc in the freespins.... I did not.

Instead they capped the maximum allowable winnings overall which they deducted long after the freespins were done and over.

So in summary, Because i won 0.3 mbtc on the freespins that gave them the right to remove something like 5 mbtc from balance hours later.

that is wrong and i firmly stand behind that belief.

[Coinbox1]

Hello everyone!

TrustDice representative here. Sorry that we didn't notice this thread a bit earlier as there was another thread we were following up on.

The OP joined our Batman promo and in the promo, he had won 7.9 mBTC (0.0079 BTC) in total with his free spin winnings. His claim that he only won 0.3 mBTC from this promo is completely false and we never agreed to this false claim of his.

Fast forward to the end, I finished with winnings of 0.000302 BTC or 0.3 mbtc!

once more: I was given 10 free spins that carried a maximum win amount of 3.3 mbtc.
the actual winnings that resulted were only 0.3 mbtc.

they have admitted to doing everything I have stated and they have admitted to reviewing this extensively and investigating it.  We are not in disagreement about what has happened.  
We both agree what happened.

The 7.9 mBTC winnings are subject to the promo terms no.9.[/b]

Kindly notice there is also a no.5 here, which is a different max win. This means there is a no.5 'Max win of FS' and a no.9 'Wager max win', both set at 3.3mBTC.

His winnings triggered clause no.9 and it was automatically deducted. And this deduction has nothing to do with his deposit. We therefore refute the OP's claim that we mixed up his winnings with his original deposit. No, we did not and have never claimed so. The calculation has always been completely separate in our system. In fact, if the OP approves and the community demands, we can provide a screenshot from our back office to corroborate this. (However in general we suggest against this for privacy reasons. And we need to report to the CEO for this.)

Also, clause no.9 is clearly displayed on the promo page that everyone can see it before joining the promo. It is not being hidden any where. Therefore any accusation that we have a hidden clause is completely baseless, and false.

My intentions are to hold your site accountable for using such sleight of hand magic tricks to chip away at your players balances and to fine print gimmicks  that are hidden away and only revealed when it's time to cash out.  

After we provided the explanation as above, we later found out that, in order to support his false claim, the OP made an obvious attempt to mislead the audience with a partial screenshot.  He chopped the screenshot of our PROMO CODE page and claimed the amount won from the free spins was 0.3 mBTC (0.00033740 BTC).  This is completely false. Because the 'Amount' on our PROMO CODE page is the value of Free spins originally given to you. This 0.00033740 BTC is the value of Free spins, not how much you won from those Free spins.

In a larger screenshot of PROMO CODE page, one can easily see the ‘Active your code’ from above, and a ‘Valid until’ column on the right, which the OP left out in his screenshot. ‘Active your code’ and ‘Valid until’ both clearly indicate the page was for PROMO CODE, not Free spins winnings. No winnings need to be activated, and no winnings have a 'Valid until' date.


Also, the page's URL is https://trustdice.win/account/promo-code, and it can only be accessed by clicking on the button 'PROMO CODE' from the dropdown list.


The URL, the page elements, columns, and the access path all indicate, without ambiguity, that the page is for promo codes, not winnings. We therefore concluded the OP was intentionally chopping them out to make it look like a page for winnings, and it was his attempt to mislead and confuse the audience.

This was an unfortunate moment. We usually do not call out the misbehavior of any users publicly as we appreciate the business relationship we once had. However due to the OP's intentional distortion of basic facts and his obvious attempt to mislead the audience, in order to offer a thorough explanation to the community, we have to expose his behaviors.

Thank you all for your support. We will forever remain committed to transparent and meaningful communication with the Bitcointalk community.

TrustDice team

[Coinbox1]

Another misbehavior that we'd like to call out for everyone's attention, is the OP's racist, xenophobic remarks.
(The link is here. )

We stand with the Chinese people and other Asian peoples against any discriminations they have suffered over the past few years, and urge the moderators to intervene and act in accordance with the community guidelines/code of conduct.


Thank you,
TrustDice team

[seoincorporation]

Another misbehavior that we'd like to call out for everyone's attention, is the OP's racist, xenophobic remarks.
(The link is here. )

We stand with the Chinese people and other Asian peoples against any discriminations they have suffered over the past few years, and urge the moderators to intervene and act in accordance with the community guidelines/code of conduct.

So, this is the way that Trust Dice deals with an upset customer?

Even if OP gets confused or have other intentions the answer is not to attack him because in the end he is a customer, and in some points he is right when say unfavorable terms and bizarre calculations.

Let me bring one example:

In the tittle in big letters you say:

First Deposit Bonus
100% up to $30,000 / 1 BTC + 25 FREE SPINS

And then in the bonus rules in the point 4 you limit the bonus to 10k.

4. The maximum bonus amount for the bonus is 1,000,000 JPY / 10,000 EUR / 10,000,000 KRW / 1 BTC / 50 ETH / 10,000 USDT / 10,000 USDC.

Which means that all the users who depo $30k and claim the bonus will only get $10k? This is totally confusing and can be interpreted by the casino with bad intentions, because if the user have $10k in the bonus money and win $1k, the bonus money will not move up to $11k because the max bonus amount is $10k by the rules.

Now lets see the rule 11:

11. Maximum win amount for free spins on the first deposit is 5,000 JPY / 50 EUR / 50,000 KRW / 0.005 BTC / 0.25 ETH / 50 USDT / 50 USDC.

A limit of $50 for someone who deposit $30k is a bad joke, and i know is only for the freespins profit, but still a joke.

I'm not saying op is right, because as you mention he shared the wrong information for this accusation and manipulate the data in his favor. But any of us will feel scammed after hitting a crazy big multiplier with those free spins and then watching how our balance is just gone. But the casino make the rules and we need to read them and be agree if we want to take the bonus.

Let's hope this dispute gets clear and i would like to have an explanation about the point 4 of the Bonus rules on the 1st depo with a max depo.
https://trustdice.win/promotions/welcome-package

[gunhell16]

This is what OP probably did not read about the thing he is complaining about, it turns out that OP was not taken by the gambling platform.

It is stated in the rules how much the amount of wager should be should be where it could see at no. 5 and 9 rules. because he has already reached the maximum, so that is what is beyond his balance. This is what is being said you should first know what kind of rules and policies a crypto gambling platform has.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

This is what OP probably did not read about the thing he is complaining about, it turns out that OP was not taken by the gambling platform.

It is stated in the rules how much the amount of wager should be should be where it could see at no. 5 and 9 rules. because he has already reached the maximum, so that is what is beyond his balance. This is what is being said you should first know what kind of rules and policies a crypto gambling platform has.

I would like to see the TrustDice representative's response to the analysis by seoincorporation. Putting big headlines that say one thing that then varies or is limited in the TOS in the small print would not be the first time we have seen this, and it is questionable to say the least.

Another misbehavior that we'd like to call out for everyone's attention, is the OP's racist, xenophobic remarks.
(The link is here. )

We stand with the Chinese people and other Asian peoples against any discriminations they have suffered over the past few years, and urge the moderators to intervene and act in accordance with the community guidelines/code of conduct.

So, this is the way that Trust Dice deals with an upset customer?

I agree that it's not the best way to deal with an upset customer, although I don't like the OP's remarks. It's not the only racist comment I've seen on the forum lately and I hope it doesn't become generalised.

[LUCKMCFLY]

@Blockchayne have a lot of bad experiences in casino especially casinos in this forum you can check the history of his posts
Is this just a coincidence? impossible  I often see extortion efforts like this and try to damage other casino reputation
I don't accuse anyone of just talking about the possibility 

OP could reply these questions here if he's clean or not since most casinos that are already here has a long history to tell and the amount we are talking about here isn't too big just to cause enough trouble, yet OP couldn't answer.

We really need the OP's explanation here since we are committed to know the truth of what was actually happening but if OP couldn't answer or tell us something then the side of the casino the truth.

Sometimes businesses have the right to change the rules of winning but if this was the casino's fault, then I think there's a misunderstanding that should be fix by calm communication since the amount involved isn't just worth the trouble.

I support this motion, if we all know that here the most important thing and that it radicalizes to guide us is reputation and when there is something that tarnishes a casino, everything that is necessary will be sought to be able to be well, in order to clarify things OP should answer everything that is asked, and have enough time to be able to establish a good communication between the users of the forum and the site, this is something that must be taken into account in order to establish a link of trust and possibly build a good reputation , this is something that you should build first, otherwise you will hardly be able to succeed, it is just a suggestion so that you can do things well.

[molsewid]

That is why you never chase bonuses and you never try to complete them. They can easily be manipulated or changed by the gambling platform and there will be not much you can do. But since you have already brought this into light, it's a good thing that we know about this so that we know how TrustDice operates when it comes to their bonuses. Then again, it would have been better if we read all of the terms and conditions on these bonuses before we decide to bet on it for the bulk of our gambling time at the casino.

Yes, because the company can still make their own decision even it is not written in the T&C of the website. They can even change the rule even though you are right. But then we can see that reply from a person who said that he is a representative of Trust Dice, apparently he said OP manipulate some things and also triggered some things that are against the rules of the game, and what actually he said made me doubt the OP.

[Blockchayne]

This is what OP probably did not read about the thing he is complaining about, it turns out that OP was not taken by the gambling platform.

It is stated in the rules how much the amount of wager should be should be where it could see at no. 5 and 9 rules. because he has already reached the maximum, so that is what is beyond his balance. This is what is being said you should first know what kind of rules and policies a crypto gambling platform has.

That’s incorrect   I was not objecting the to maximum restriction. I was objecting to how it was used to restrict my full session of 3 hours of gameplay instead of limited the 10 free spins which I believed the
Limit applied to.  I explained that very thoroughly and I was fine with the terms as I understood them   

[Blockchayne]

That is why you never chase bonuses and you never try to complete them. They can easily be manipulated or changed by the gambling platform and there will be not much you can do. But since you have already brought this into light, it's a good thing that we know about this so that we know how TrustDice operates when it comes to their bonuses. Then again, it would have been better if we read all of the terms and conditions on these bonuses before we decide to bet on it for the bulk of our gambling time at the casino.

Yes, because the company can still make their own decision even it is not written in the T&C of the website. They can even change the rule even though you are right. But then we can see that reply from a person who said that he is a representative of Trust Dice, apparently he said OP manipulate some things and also triggered some things that are against the rules of the game, and what actually he said made me doubt the OP.

This is a ridiculous perspective. I did not manipulate anything.  I cropped a screenshot to focus on the important and relevant aspect. What I cropped out was not important whatsoever nor does it change anything I said or TrustDice said.  

This was their attempt to discredit me by deflecting from the fact that they operate under very unfavorable and misleading terms on an every day basis and it’s about time someone brought this to light. They did it again with this “racist” accusation. Another attempt to deflect from the situation and instead attack my credibility because I said they were from China, which basically they confirmed to be true.

My point when saying this was not an expression of any dislike of China, Chinese people, or Asian people, that is not at all the case, complete nonsense. What I was saying was that China has far less consumer protections and regulations (with the exception of crypto) and Chinese manufacturers and service providers can get away with things that would never fly in many western countries and they would be shut down or face legal action. Trust dice is operating in a similar manner and this type of behavior would never be acceptable at Fully regulated or even semi regulated establishment.

[Blockchayne]

Another misbehavior that we'd like to call out for everyone's attention, is the OP's racist, xenophobic remarks.
(The link is here. )

We stand with the Chinese people and other Asian peoples against any discriminations they have suffered over the past few years, and urge the moderators to intervene and act in accordance with the community guidelines/code of conduct.

So, this is the way that Trust Dice deals with an upset customer?

Even if OP gets confused or have other intentions the answer is not to attack him because in the end he is a customer, and in some points he is right when say unfavorable terms and bizarre calculations.

Let me bring one example:

In the tittle in big letters you say:

First Deposit Bonus
100% up to $30,000 / 1 BTC + 25 FREE SPINS

And then in the bonus rules in the point 4 you limit the bonus to 10k.

4. The maximum bonus amount for the bonus is 1,000,000 JPY / 10,000 EUR / 10,000,000 KRW / 1 BTC / 50 ETH / 10,000 USDT / 10,000 USDC.

Which means that all the users who depo $30k and claim the bonus will only get $10k? This is totally confusing and can be interpreted by the casino with bad intentions, because if the user have $10k in the bonus money and win $1k, the bonus money will not move up to $11k because the max bonus amount is $10k by the rules.

Now lets see the rule 11:

11. Maximum win amount for free spins on the first deposit is 5,000 JPY / 50 EUR / 50,000 KRW / 0.005 BTC / 0.25 ETH / 50 USDT / 50 USDC.

A limit of $50 for someone who deposit $30k is a bad joke, and i know is only for the freespins profit, but still a joke.

I'm not saying op is right, because as you mention he shared the wrong information for this accusation and manipulate the data in his favor. But any of us will feel scammed after hitting a crazy big multiplier with those free spins and then watching how our balance is just gone. But the casino make the rules and we need to read them and be agree if we want to take the bonus.

Let's hope this dispute gets clear and i would like to have an explanation about the point 4 of the Bonus rules on the 1st depo with a max depo.
https://trustdice.win/promotions/welcome-package

This is exactly the type of misleading, bait and switch, type of behavior that I was objecting to in the first place. Thank you for bringing this to light. I’m glad at least I’m not the only one who takes issue with this type of nonsense.

[Blockchayne]

He chopped the screenshot of our PROMO CODE page and claimed the amount won from the free spins was 0.3 mBTC (0.00033740 BTC).  This is completely false. Because the 'Amount' on our PROMO CODE page is the value of Free spins originally given to you. This 0.00033740 BTC is the value of Free spins, not how much you won from those Free spins.

This is a perfect example of the nonsense. It is representative of how they operate. With deliberately confusing and misleading language.
 
It’s not the amount it’s the value?!  

Here is what happened:
I started at 0.00 in free spin winnings.
I had 10 free spins to spin.
Spin 1, spin 2, spin 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10!
Now I’ve spun all 10 free spins and the total yield at the conclusion of those spins was 0.00033740.

You can call it amount, value, or whatever else. This is what I believe the maximum limit should have been applied to. The yield from the 10 free spins. Not the yield from the 3 hours I played at the casino after my 10 freespins. I’m the end the max limit was applied to all of my play for the entire day, not just the 10 free spins. That’s why I objected and I did not manipulate anything,
I’m not racist, and I’m stand up for my convictions.  

These are the facts and this is exactly what happened. They fully admit it.

[AicecreaME]

I remember seeing similar cases on other casinos where they'd have a limit on how much you can get out of their bonus.

Even if the bonus they're giving out doesn't seem to be fair, there's nothing we could do against the terms and conditions of their bonuses since it's their casino they can also update it at any time. If you're hoping for a better bonus then it's best to not take the current bonuses they offer and hope the other players do the same so they'd get the message and make some improvements.

Most casinos do really set limit on how much you can get on their bonus because after all, it is just a type of promotion to gauge the players into playing and depositing. They still have to profit out of it since they are also a business trying to thrive and generate income as well. It is not really a secret that these casinos gradually lower the RTP once the players gets to play and win consecutively. I believe this is also included in their terms of service so you must really read and digest all of their policies before proceeding to avoid trouble. Otherwise, you will really experience inconvenience because you don't know some of their rules.

If the casino didn't put that on their TOS, then you can raise a concern regarding the sudden change/s made into your account. However, it is also known that some casinos change TOS without further notice, so it will be your obligation to check if they have made some changes on their terms once in a while. Some send alert messages while some don't so you have to rely on your own if that is the scenario.

[EarnOnVictor]

I can sense the frustration of the OP, it is unfair to have a trust on a company and get betrayed. Should I give you a candid advice? Make sure you get your reviews of the gambling sites you want to deal with from physical people, not online. However, BTT is a good place to get such an unbiased reviews too, this will help you against such scam sites.

Some systems are designed to make you fail, this is a deliberate action, so be aware. This is why you will hardly find a regulated casino sites these days, they are doing as they please, while many of them are known scammers or legit scammers. Thanks for letting us know anyway!

[Coinbox1]

Hi EarnOnVictor,

Please kindly refer to TrustDice's official reply here.

Thank you and wish you a great week further.

TrustDice Team

[Coinbox1]

Hello seoincorporation and Don Pedro Dinero,

I just checked the page (https://trustdice.win/promotions/welcome-package) and I did not find the discrepancy seoincorporation described. As shown below, the max bonus amount is written as $30,000 on both the header and the full rules.


You can check the page and verify it by yourself: https://trustdice.win/promotions/welcome-package
Regardlessly, I will discuss with our product and tech team to inquire what could have caused the discrepancy you saw.

Thank you for your support!

TrustDice Team