Regulations on proof of work might be coming

[pooya87]

Agreed and I have a similar attitude on this. It is a comedy show. However, the argument is Ethereum's transfer to proof of stake might be used as an attack against Bitcoin to create fud and pressure the government to create very strict regulations on mining which can also be used to attack any proof of work coin.

True but they never needed an excuse to create and spread FUD about bitcoin in the past 13 years. If anything the Ethereum's eventual demise would help put an end to some of the FUD they've been spreading. This shitcoin has already gotten dumped nearly 30% over the past 10 days.
What I'm mostly curious to see is the next roll back or coin freeze we see in this centralized platform.

[o_e_l_e_o]

this world's is lacking in energy resources.

The world has abundant energy. Covering just 1% of the area of just the Sahara desert with solar panels which we can manufacture today would generate enough energy to meet the needs of the entire world. Note that is energy, not just electricity. Enough energy to completely replace coal, oil, natural gas, etc. It could be done with a one off cost of around $5 trillion. That's less than the increase in the Fed's balance sheet over the last 3 years. That's less than what has been spent on bailing out banks around the world over the last decade.

There is no lack of energy resources. There is a lack of a will to spend money harnessing it, because our politicians are bought out by oil companies, banks, military industrial complex, and others, who are busy funneling the money in to their own pockets instead.

It is either People get to live or PoW gets to live, which is why PoW is going to die.

This is an absolutely moronic statement. If all PoW mining stopped today, global electricity usage would drop by a fraction of one percent. By next month, that saved fraction would already have been used up and more by the general growth and expansion of global electricity usage from other sectors which is continually happening. Banning PoW is completely inconsequential to global electricity use.

[LegendaryK]

this world's is lacking in energy resources.

The world has abundant energy.

It is either People get to live or PoW gets to live, which is why PoW is going to die.

This is an absolutely moronic statement. If all PoW mining stopped today, global electricity usage would drop by a fraction of one percent. By next month, that saved fraction would already have been used up and more by the general growth and expansion of global electricity usage from other sectors which is continually happening. Banning PoW is completely inconsequential to global electricity use.

Last time , I checked rolling blackouts are happening across the world due to energy shortages .
Whether lack of investment or some global conspiracy, abundant energy is not available,
so you have to live in the real world not your imagination.

Feel free to create a dyson sphere and solve the world energy problems.
Until then the world has an energy shortage.

Texas generates less than 1% of the world's total energy.
The World's power grid are not all interconnected.
The reason other industries are not an issue, is they spread out across the grids,
where as btc mining parasite like to collect in 1 area, because of greed.
That is what threatens any power grid that the PoW parasites decide to congregate on.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-26/texas-crypto-rush-may-need-as-much-power-as-entire-state-of-n-y?leadSource=uverify%20wall

Texas Crypto-Mining Rush May Need as Much Power as Entire State of New York
    Demand is 33% more than what grid was preparing to handle
    Miners have applied to draw up to 33 gigawatts from grid

When , not if, but when the BTC miners collapse the Texas power grid by 2024, millions of people lives will be at risk,
power failure from a collapsed grid takes 2 to 5 years to repair,
in a full scale grid down scenario , 90% of the populace would be dead in the 1st year.
In state only scenario, where surrounding states still have access to power, you could lose 25% of the population in 2 years,
which in Texas case would be ~7 million people,
not to mention the almost total destruction of Texas economy , along with severe damage to the US economy.
In my opinion, some nutcase hoping a dead end PoW BTC makes him rich, is not worth the lives of 7 million people.
And the Government Officials will agree, or be voted out.
Which is why PoW mining will be permaban in 2024, people lives are worth more than a bullshit coin name bitcoin.

FYI:
PoS verses PoW is over, Proof of Stake Won
Considering in the top 20 coins on CMK, only BTC is stupid enough to stick with PoW

The Final battle is
The People Verses Bitcoin (PoW)
The People are going to win and Proof of Waste is going to die.

[Wind_FURY]

Trolls who are making their debate for POS, especially if using Ethereum as the narrative, have no understanding or doesn't try to have an understanding of what Ethereum actually lost, and its importance. There's currently more/increased probability that Ethereum will devolve and accept "the trade-off" to be compliant, which should be UNACCEPTABLE for a base layer.

[franky1]

PoS is weak security.
it has a very low cost of security thus cheap to attack. its only saviour is that PoS coins were so lacking of utility no one cared to attack it.
however for major coins. people will attack it.
(watch this space for people trying attack Eth now)

those supporting PoS are the types that dont want to put work/effort into the security. they dont even care about longevity of a coin. they just want a zero work effort passive automated income.
they dont realise that ETH for instance dropped its store of value from$900 underlying support to under $40, and soon thats going to become under $4 support. thus all the market price becomes is 99.95% speculative with a low near zero value support

thus millions of people getting 0.0000x eth passively for no work. will soon realise that the small decimal is worth 99.95% less than it was this year

thus their dream of easy riches soon fade away where they then have another reason to cry and try to want to change ETH again to try to get rich quick for free

PoW is about work effort which gets rewarded. and the funding and competition actually helps make bitcoin more secure aswell as funds power plant companies excess which gives them more income to then invest in upgrading more power plants sooner.

PoS does none of that. its about pretending poor lazy people can passive income for free to get into riches.. which never works out and leaves the network vulnerable to attack

[LegendaryK]

PoS is weak security.

Funny, the US Office of Science and Technology list Proof of Stake as Secure.
Maybe they are smarter than you franky1, because weak was left out.

They also recommended PoW be eliminated. (1 executive order is all it takes.)

All those smart people, and they have a totally different viewpoint , imagine that.  

[franky1]

PoS is weak security.

Funny, the US Office of Science and Technology list Proof of Stake as Secure.
Maybe they are smarter than you franky1, because weak was left out.

They also recommended PoW be eliminated. (1 executive order is all it takes.)

All those smart people, and they have a totally different viewpoint , imagine that.  

when staked coin is hoarded by 3 top exchanges.. those exchanges are not just the mining pool.. but also the economic nodes of deciding what forks to follow for their trading market order books. and the vault holders of general users wealth

take bitcoin. if an exchange wanted to only service BCH instead of BTC. that has influence on users of what chain people should use to move value to convert to fiat.
but if the miners are supporting a different chain. then thats a separate feature of the network security of how easy it is to 51% attack or chain re-org. and also the cost of mining that influences the price..
and then normal users of consensus have to ask themselves what chain they want to use.. thus a 3rd aspect of decentralised security against a sudden change of blockchain rules/utility


but.. with PoS where the exchanges are
the market orderbook service influencers of value swap..
the price discovery
the miners whose cost brings a low store of value
the miners who decide on forks/utiltiy protection
and users life savings holder.

thats at risk if users oppose their vault owner(exchange) decisions

thats a central point of multiple hits for users that oppose an exchanges decision. yep if users oppose exchanges.. the users lose their own stake.. dont have access to exchanges to then trade,,  thus users automatically would just follow the whim of exchanges no matter what. thus no choice.. just a 1 central point meaning exchanges can do as they like and everyone follows

[Welsh]

Funny, the US Office of Science and Technology list Proof of Stake as Secure.
Maybe they are smarter than you franky1, because weak was left out.

Just because an authority or at least a perceived authority has said one thing, doesn't actually make it true. The fact is, within that department you definitely would've had people disagreeing with that statement, and when you look at the bigger picture then you can see why Proof Of Stake isn't secure.

However, it all depends on what use case you're looking at, for some things proof of stake could potentially be secure, however for Bitcoin or for general cryptocurrencies you don't want to be using it, since it's less secure than Proof Of Work. That can't be argued, it's basically a fact at this point.

However, it might be deemed secure enough for some things, like I hinted too. Technically, that means it's secure for certain use cases, but in terms of Bitcoin. Absolutely not, you want to be using the most secure protocol available to you ideally, without major inconvenience that is.

[LegendaryK]

when staked coin is hoarded by 3 top exchanges.. those exchanges are not just the mining pool.. but also the economic nodes of deciding what forks to follow for their trading market order books. and the vault holders of general users wealth

Funny , how you have no problem with 3 or 4 mining pool operators having total control over BTC for years now.

 

FYI:
Cardano PoS has a design that lowers staking % if the stake pool gets too high.
Which guarantees that centralization like what is in btc never happens in cardano.  

Just because an authority or at least a perceived authority has said one thing, doesn't actually make it true.
The fact is, within that department you definitely would've had people disagreeing with that statement, and when you look at the bigger picture then you can see why Proof Of Stake isn't secure.

However, it all depends on what use case you're looking at, for some things proof of stake could potentially be secure, however for Bitcoin or for general cryptocurrencies you don't want to be using it, since it's less secure than Proof Of Work. That can't be argued, it's basically a fact at this point.

However, it might be deemed secure enough for some things, like I hinted too. Technically, that means it's secure for certain use cases, but in terms of Bitcoin. Absolutely not, you want to be using the most secure protocol available to you ideally, without major inconvenience that is.

Do you have any links to anyone in that dept , that disagrees with elimination of PoW, I like to see it.

Saying PoS is less secure than PoW , does not make it so, that is pure conjecture or opinion not a guarantee.

PoS has been around since 2013, unlike PoW, it's design is continuing to evolve,
such as cardano that has code to prevent centralization, which btc does not have
and algorand that has transaction finality in only 4 seconds, and BTC does not have transaction finality in 4 years.

If you want to talk secure, transaction finality is the hands down standard, and that is not debatable no matter authority or spectator.
Knowing that a transaction can't be reversed ever is security, bitcoin does not have that with it's weak PoW design.
 
  

[Wind_FURY]

PoS is weak security.

Funny, the US Office of Science and Technology list Proof of Stake as Secure.
Maybe they are smarter than you franky1, because weak was left out.

They also recommended PoW be eliminated. (1 executive order is all it takes.)

All those smart people, and they have a totally different viewpoint , imagine that.  

when staked coin is hoarded by 3 top exchanges.. those exchanges are not just the mining pool.. but also the economic nodes of deciding what forks to follow for their trading market order books. and the vault holders of general users wealth

It's also currently more possible under Ethereum's new system, only accounts that went through KYC will be allowed to stake. It definitely opened new attack vectors that can be used by centralized government entities, some of which will only be known by the users by surprise. A Black Swan.

Bitcoin should never change, especially not because there are mere trolls who are probably from the BCash SV community.

[pooya87]

Funny , how you have no problem with 3 or 4 mining pool operators having total control over BTC for years now.

You should first learn the difference between a mining pool and a miner then make silly comments like this.
What's funny is that you have no problem with 1 exchange having the biggest stake in a PoS shitcoin and can control it and even change the protocol. It's not like it hasn't happened in the past either! We have actual examples.
You also don't have any problems with 1 entity having full control over the majority of the PoS shitcoins which they premined. Oh we have example of that too

[LegendaryK]

Funny , how you have no problem with 3 or 4 mining pool operators having total control over BTC for years now.

You should first learn the difference between a mining pool and a miner then make silly comments like this.
What's funny is that you have no problem with 1 exchange having the biggest stake in a PoS shitcoin and can control it and even change the protocol. It's not like it hasn't happened in the past either! We have actual examples.
You also don't have any problems with 1 entity having full control over the majority of the PoS shitcoins which they premined. Oh we have example of that too

Wow, you really work at it, to be that stupid.
Funny , how you have to lie, really lame of you, I guess Ethereum evolution scares the hell out you.  

According to the below chart, their are over 10 eth2 staking entities, which is 6 better than Bitshit's Proof of Waste Mining Pools.



Now Cardano has implemented code and their pools number over 3000.
Which ethereum could add at anytime if they so choose, but since ethereum decentralization beats the hell out of bitshit,
they will be in no hurry. Proof of Stake can be upgraded to add feature, Bitshit Proof of Waste, well that will just be banned.

Now say something else stupid, pooya87.
Since that is all we can expect from you.

[o_e_l_e_o]

You are aware it is literally impossible to unstake Eth at the moment? Once it is staked, it is staked for potentially a year or more until the Ethereum devs implement some future upgrade to allow people to actually unstake it or stake it with a different entity. If Coinbase decide to go rogue with their staked share, there is nothing the individual users can do about it. They can't unstake, they can't withdraw, they can't switch, anything. (Although I'm sure in such a scenario a small number of devs will publish some code to make sure things continue in the way they want them to, just like when ETH and ETC split. Decentralized, just as long as you do what you are told. Lol.)

On the other hand, bitcoin miners mining in a pool have absolutely nothing tying them to that pool, and can switch to a different pool at any time with a moment's notice. Imagine if ASICs were produced which could only mine on a single pool, could never be changed to a different pool, and couldn't even be switched off. This is the current situation with Eth PoS.

[LegendaryK]

Random nonsense

If you guys are going to talk about ethereum , do some research so you won't keep sprouting nonsense.
Anyone can sell their Their ETH2 on Coinbase , right now if they so choose.
Coinbase.com

Wrap your ETH2 to sell or send it
Coinbase now lets you exchange your ETH2 for a new token, called cbETH.
This is called “wrapping”, which is a new concept for many people.

[o_e_l_e_o]

-snip-

Warp your centralized coin in to a centralized token owned and controlled by Coinbase? Sounds great!

Also, that is not the same thing is unstaking your Eth. You cannot unstake your Eth. You can only receive a wrapped centralized token from Coinbase in return.

This is fundamentally different from PoW where your hashrate can be pointed at any pool you like at any time, or mine solo, or turned off, etc. If a mining pool does something shady, the miners react and move their hashrate elsewhere. If an Ethereum staker does something shady, the users cannot do anything.

[LegendaryK]

-snip-

Still sprouting nonsense

Geez , were you sleeping when they were handing out brains?

Wrap it, Sell it , and the person can buy whatever they want on coinbase or any other exchange.

As far as coinbase they are only at 15% of staking , does that get your panties in a bunch.
Was the pic from the earlier post , too small for you to read?

What really bugs you , is that PoW is getting banned soon, and bitcoin supporters don't have a clue what to do.

Cry fud and watch btc die, is what you will do.  


FYI:
In Proof of Waste mining, a mere 4 mining pool operators can 51% attack bitcoin daily for years,
can your miners point to another pool , sure only after the 51% attack occurred. (PoW miners are not bright so they might not even notice.)
The mining pool operators can then just setup new pools, with new names and 51% attack the dummy bitcoin network again.

In Ethereum Proof of Stake, anyone that attempts a 51% attack, coins are destroyed
read that again because PoW users are not bright  coins are destroyed.
This means however many millions were used to buy those coins, just got pissed in the wind.
Not only will there be no second attempts, the dummy that tried it is now broke.

[coolcoinz]

Geez , were you sleeping when they were handing out brains?

The more facts people show you the more aggressive towards them you become, throwing insults and calling names. You "world savers" are getting desperate.
Keep dreaming about POW bans all around the world. Every time I see people talk about worldwide bans I ask them a single question. When did you see the world cooperate to stop something? I don't recall such event. In every conflicts there are those who are for and those who are against. Looking at your posts I can see that we won't get anywhere and have to agree to disagree. There's no changing your mind. You think we're all stupid for supporting POW and we think the same about you.

[aysg76]

You mean the organization that was paid $5 million by Ripple to spread FUD about bitcoin.

Yeah and the same organisation protesting against bitcoin over the environmental concern despite looking at the facts that how much energy consumption is their in the other sectors but total waste of time.

It depends on whether in the weeks during 2023 or 2024 that ETH is pumping or has any pumping potential or not. Otherwise Elon doesn't give a shit.

Yeah he just wants to fill out his bags which he has done with doge and why isn't he tweeting about it taking to the moon? He has taken out his share and now he can do same with ETH also with the centralised shit staking big amounts and getting more control over the network.So yes he can do it now with the merge.

LOL

It gives exact response to those who believe these merge can make bitcoin loose it's decentralisation nature and it doesn't care about it at all.

The merge has achieved nothing in terms of electricity consumption, it just lets Ethereum play even more in to the hands of centralized regulators. I suppose that goes well with their new centralized PoS protocol.

It has changed nothing but given the privileged more control over the network and has shifted towards more centralised chain of authority that has more risk associated with its exploitation but they just want to consume less electricity at any cost even if change the whole concept of decentralisation.

[LegendaryK]

Geez , were you sleeping when they were handing out brains?

You think we're all stupid for supporting POW and we think

Yep , I think you are all stupid for supporting POW.
But I don't believe any of you PoW supporters are actually capable of thinking.  
Cults usually frown on their cult members actually thinking.





https://decrypt.co/109283/white-house-bitcoin-mining-greener-ban

White House: Bitcoin Mining Must Be Greener—Or US Should Ban It
The White House has said it wants federal agencies and states to make mining cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin more climate-friendly—or else.

Time is short.

[Wind_FURY]

BCash Scammer Roger Ver, the person who spreads the lies and misinforms the community that BCash is "the real Bitcoin" because "Peer to peer electronic cash" tweeted something,

EVM chains seem to be the future.
#Ethereum

https://twitter.com/rogerkver/status/1572241752635084800

Hahaha! What kind of scam does he have to con the community now? New tokens perhaps? We can't simply trust Roger Ver. There's always an agenda with him.