ethereum switch from PoW to PoS

[franky1]

so imagine if instead of say gold mining which costs about $900/ounce of labour, diesel, sluice machines, loader tricks and diggers..
where market rates are about 1.5x speculative bubble factor of underlying cost(value)
where gold have only ever reached a 2x factor in the last couple decades


imagine if gold could be mined in someones back yard for just $1 an ounce.. using a spoon and coffee filter paper

do you think gold would remain at a market rate of speculation of $1700

well
Ethereum just changed its mining underlying costs


from over $940 to under $35

i will let you discuss how much of a X multiple 'speculation bubble factor'. the market should remain at

enjoy the thoughts..

oh slight hint.. expect ethereum price to continue to decline until it corrects to a good value new low

[NeuroticFish]

from over $940 to under $35

i will let you discuss how much of a X multiple 'speculation bubble factor'. the market should remain at

enjoy the thoughts..

oh slight hint.. expect ethereum price to continue to decline until it corrects to a good value new low

Nothing unexpected for me until this point (nicely done calculation though). I had long ago some experience with PoS coins and their price went lower to even lower until some even got delisted for low volumes.
Ethereum has all the shit tokens on it (ok, not all, but most); I expect those may also fall (if nothing else, at least the panic).

And my question/dilemma is... how will Bitcoin handle this, at least on short term? I'd expect another leg down, like when various DeFi "businesses" crashed, especially as the bear market is not over yet.
But how low will that go? Or am I wrong?

[franky1]

when luna crashed it affected bitcoin because in the escape most went through binance which couldnt escape with proper withdrawals meaning they funneled people through binance chain to coinbase as coinbase was the custodian of most of the locked/pegged sidechain coin which on receipt coinbase could unlock/unpeg to then use coin for withdrawals.. that mess was a double slam on bitcoin

but with ethereum people are not reliant on sidechains of bitcoin. ethereum can just cash out to fiat. because ethereum has its own fiat market order books on the main exchanges of price discovery

so less reliance of a bitcoin path out of exchanges
...
infact those that dont want to take their etherem exit fiat back to the bank may end up buying bitcoin while its cheap as a better store of value.

bitcoins efficient PoW cost is ~$15k where price is 33% more (0.3x)
compared to ethereums 'cost' ~$31 where price is 4700% above (47x)

if i couldnt be bothered to passive mine an asset and thought screw it lets just buy it and have it now, no fuss,, id much rather buy something that only has a 33% premuim than a 4700% premium added on

atleast i know im getting my moneys worth

[o48o]

Imho for current use cases eth was valued too high anyway, but this doesn't mean it would be in the future.

So is this purely value speculation or are you saying that this is a bad thing or coin should be only valued by the cost for mining it? Regardless for the actual use case and game theory of utilizing the tokenimics for it?

Are you taking into account their whole gaming theory of their tokenomics, EIP-1559 and incentivizing stakers not to sell but accumulate their stack? I mean you are comparing it wo something completely different in the first place.

Comparing ETH to BTC is kinda pointless and BTC probably will end up getting banned after it hits $100k for the same exact reason you are saying it has store of value, and that reason is PoW.

And before you say that it can't be banned and throw in talks from Antonopoulos or any other libertarian talk assuming governments can't fight it or about the decentralized nature of it then sure, you can mine it forever with your laptop and p2p trade it with people. But CEXes can, and without CEXes the, lack of liquidity itself would drop harder then ever, and you will go back to P2P trading.

And lets say by some miracle it stays alive and liquidity against other cryptos would be stilll good and there would be a good technique to DeX it to other cryptos. FATF travel rule and other AML regulations would make sure that these old money washing techniques will be irrelevant and game left for very few people who can play the system.

And if you are hoping that CEXes would fight regulators: https://twitter.com/paddi_hansen/status/1569973440496410625

So good luck for people with that store of value there.

[piebeyb]

if we look at the picture above we have seen that POS is more efficient than POW, but we also see now after the merger is complete the price keeps dropping whether it's because they POW miners throw their ETH or they use ETH from POW mining to get rewards from staking POS

[goaldigger]

if we look at the picture above we have seen that POS is more efficient than POW, but we also see now after the merger is complete the price keeps dropping whether it's because they POW miners throw their ETH or they use ETH from POW mining to get rewards from staking POS

This is normal after the update because usually the hype happen right before the update and when the news hit, that is the time for the investors to take profit and the price will start to dump.

Let’s see this after a month of update and we will see a big difference. Miners will adjust accordingly because they are doing that for years already and they still know the mining ETH can be more profitable now because of it’s efficiency on saving energy.

[piebeyb]

if we look at the picture above we have seen that POS is more efficient than POW, but we also see now after the merger is complete the price keeps dropping whether it's because they POW miners throw their ETH or they use ETH from POW mining to get rewards from staking POS

This is normal after the update because usually the hype happen right before the update and when the news hit, that is the time for the investors to take profit and the price will start to dump.

Let’s see this after a month of update and we will see a big difference. Miners will adjust accordingly because they are doing that for years already and they still know the mining ETH can be more profitable now because of it’s efficiency on saving energy.

yes mining is now much more energy efficient and I make sure those who sell it cheap will buy it back at a high price, at least the next few months during the process of the krito market recovery which is gradually recovering, I am happy to take ETH under $1500 for my long term investment

[dark1234]

yes mining is now much more energy efficient and I make sure those who sell it cheap will buy it back at a high price, at least the next few months during the process of the krito market recovery which is gradually recovering, I am happy to take ETH under $1500 for my long term investment

I don't think anything has changed significantly for ETH. although the change in POW to POS makes changes in income for miners but over time this will be adapted, because the positive and negative impacts of these changes are certainly anticipated by ETH developers
while the price changes I see because the influence of changes in the market price of bitcoin dominates

[Tony116]

if we look at the picture above we have seen that POS is more efficient than POW, but we also see now after the merger is complete the price keeps dropping whether it's because they POW miners throw their ETH or they use ETH from POW mining to get rewards from staking POS

This is normal after the update because usually the hype happen right before the update and when the news hit, that is the time for the investors to take profit and the price will start to dump.

Let’s see this after a month of update and we will see a big difference. Miners will adjust accordingly because they are doing that for years already and they still know the mining ETH can be more profitable now because of it’s efficiency on saving energy.

The market does not always run as we expect, it can run before news or after a while when events occur. This has happened with bitcoin before, bitcoin never rose right after the end of the halving and only really exploded after a while. Many people are disappointed because after the merger, ETH did not increase in price for them to take profits and they think that the merger is not beneficial for ETH. Those who always want to make such quick profits are unlikely to last long in the market.

[batang_bitcoin]

yes mining is now much more energy efficient and I make sure those who sell it cheap will buy it back at a high price, at least the next few months during the process of the krito market recovery which is gradually recovering,

And it's because ETH is now PoS and we don't have to mine it but as long as you've got that on stake, you'll be able to earn passively. The advantage goes to those that have tons of ETH and they can feel the profit from it but, those that hold less and few, they won't have that enthusiasm just as the others that have been holding a lot.

I am happy to take ETH under $1500 for my long term investment

It's $1300 as for checking it and probably you didn't missed when it's like around $900.

[lixer]

yes mining is now much more energy efficient and I make sure those who sell it cheap will buy it back at a high price, at least the next few months during the process of the krito market recovery which is gradually recovering, I am happy to take ETH under $1500 for my long term investment

I don't think anything has changed significantly for ETH. although the change in POW to POS makes changes in income for miners but over time this will be adapted, because the positive and negative impacts of these changes are certainly anticipated by ETH developers
while the price changes I see because the influence of changes in the market price of bitcoin dominates

The merge itself is a significant change for eth because from pow, it is now transferred to pos mechanism. The other change is like you said, the income of the miners. Maybe some will learn to adapt it but for the rest maybe they will try to change careers now.

For the eth developers, they will surely adapt on the change because they agree to change eth in the first place. It is said that eth is gaining a dominance last time but that have reverted to normal now, now that the price of eth is dropping drastically. @piebeyb they sell it cheap but they will buy at a high price? I think that's weird. Basically, we will only sell at highs and then buy at lows.

[dark1234]

For the eth developers, they will surely adapt on the change because they agree to change eth in the first place. It is said that eth is gaining a dominance last time but that have reverted to normal now, now that the price of eth is dropping drastically. @piebeyb they sell it cheap but they will buy at a high price? I think that's weird. Basically, we will only sell at highs and then buy at lows.

I think this is due to the concerns of holders who think negatively on ethereum. This may be due to several factors, some of which were consumed by the ISU negatif that developed from the system changes implemented by ETH, and others may be looking for a price gap to buy back at a lower price by making short-term trades and the current month's price is more red balloons fly

[Bitcoin_Arena]

if we look at the picture above we have seen that POS is more efficient than POW,

Efficient in what context? You haven't specified.

but we also see now after the merger is complete the price keeps dropping whether it's because they POW miners throw their ETH or they use ETH from POW mining to get rewards from staking POS

Were you paying attention to the markets?
The ETH price pumped hard before the merger. it's quite obvious that people were looking forward to getting some of the airdrop from the fork. As soon as the merger was done, there was no point to keeping the ETH so most traders sold it thus the dump.

[bitcampaign]

a few weeks after the merger was completed ETH continued to hold at the price of $1300 and there was no increase after the merger event the price continued to fall, is it because mining costs are cheaper and generates a lot of income so people prefer to throw away for short profits, glad ETH has succeeded with incorporating it into the new POS system and it will make it even better and great in the future

[el kaka22]

I would assume that it is not just 1 dollar an ounce to mine it, it means you need to lock millions of dollars to mine it. The difference is that, you would have to buy 1 million dollars worth of equipment to mine gold, and then you would mine that much, instead now you are locking that 1 million dollars, in cash, and not touch it, to mine that gold.

Same amount of money spent, just not on equipment but towards locking it somewhere where you can't spend it while mining it. If that was the case, I think that the price of it not would just stay the same, but would also grow, why? Because people wouldn't need technical information, they only need to lock it and not touch it, so it could be done by a lot more people.

[FanEagle]

I would assume that it is not just 1 dollar an ounce to mine it, it means you need to lock millions of dollars to mine it. The difference is that, you would have to buy 1 million dollars worth of equipment to mine gold, and then you would mine that much, instead now you are locking that 1 million dollars, in cash, and not touch it, to mine that gold.

Same amount of money spent, just not on equipment but towards locking it somewhere where you can't spend it while mining it. If that was the case, I think that the price of it not would just stay the same, but would also grow, why? Because people wouldn't need technical information, they only need to lock it and not touch it, so it could be done by a lot more people.

That is correct and that is the reason why it will go up as well. You are basically taking money away from the market, and locking it, making the liquidity in the trading volume go lower, meaning when the bull run comes, and there are a lot of people who would like to buy ETH, there won't be any and that’s going to be the good side of it because it will go up a lot faster due to lack of liquidity.

This means that locking up your ETH is similar to fed increasing the interest rates on dollar and increasing its value and dropping crypto, but for this time it’s going to be for ETH. I can literally see it go over bitcoin during bull run, it's possible.

[lixer]

a few weeks after the merger was completed ETH continued to hold at the price of $1300 and there was no increase after the merger event the price continued to fall, is it because mining costs are cheaper and generates a lot of income so people prefer to throw away for short profits, glad ETH has succeeded with incorporating it into the new POS system and it will make it even better and great in the future

I think it's called merge not merger and also the price only increase before the said event have happened but after it, that is the start of the fall though one of the reasons of the decrease could be related to mining. Not only the price of ethereum have decline but the price of the gpu's are said to decline hard as well.

This must be a good opportunity to accumulate them because their values might increase again sooner or later. The transition from proof of work to proof of stake is a success but many people feel disappointed, that it looks like ethereum have failed them but let's hope you are right that the merge can make ethereum even better than before.

[Lagduf]

a few weeks after the merger was completed ETH continued to hold at the price of $1300 and there was no increase after the merger event the price continued to fall, is it because mining costs are cheaper and generates a lot of income so people prefer to throw away for short profits, glad ETH has succeeded with incorporating it into the new POS system and it will make it even better and great in the future

It has no effect with mining cost. Miners have not yet dumped their ethereum to the market. The point that i can take from what happened with ethereum is the POS has been making lots of people prefer to hold it. The situation in the global economic doesn't seem good to support the pump or hype for ethereum merge. The thing that i can know that is when people aware if pump will not always come instantly

[NickofTime]

so imagine if instead of say gold mining which costs about $900/ounce of labour, diesel, sluice machines, loader tricks and diggers..
where market rates are about 1.5x speculative bubble factor of underlying cost(value)
where gold have only ever reached a 2x factor in the last couple decades


imagine if gold could be mined in someones back yard for just $1 an ounce.. using a spoon and coffee filter paper

do you think gold would remain at a market rate of speculation of $1700

well
Ethereum just changed its mining underlying costs
https://i.imgur.com/tIwxtCH.png

from over $940 to under $35

i will let you discuss how much of a X multiple 'speculation bubble factor'. the market should remain at

enjoy the thoughts..

oh slight hint.. expect ethereum price to continue to decline until it corrects to a good value new low

The issuance changed too, it dropped by ~88%. Doesn't that mitigate the decrease in cost of validating a block?
https://ultrasound.money/

[o48o]

The issuance changed too, it dropped by ~88%. Doesn't that mitigate the decrease in cost of validating a block?
https://ultrasound.money/

Yep, ETH tokenomics turning deflationary wasn't in the calculations. It baffles me that people think project with nearly 200 billion dollar martkecap would have a development team that wouldn't do careful calculations on their tokenomics game theory. That they would push out something poorly planned without enough incentive for people to secure their chain.