No doubt POS is centralized

[Zaguru12]

It seems the major concern about Proof of stake that experts here warned about has begin to see the light.
According to cointelegraph, 40% of ethereum nodes are controlled by two addresses which are Lido and Coinbase.
This has just proven more that POS is not decentralized and favours investors with higher token supply
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[Piesel]

And those two addresses if their stake their ethereum in the network pool then there can control the transaction, that is the irony of the whole situation, the proof of stake network will only make ethereum more centralized and control is given to the big bag holders in the network.

We will see more of these kinds of addresses that are contending to control the network popping up as time goes on because coinbase is an exchange so other big exchanges like Binance will join the list of ethereum holders competing for control of the network pool.

[Little Mouse]

PoS is based on the amount you hold. If we simply evaluate this, I think we are safe to say it's a method to make rich people more rich as they will have more power with their holdings. This makes the system more centralized. People with heavy investment can easily have the control of the chain.

Your discussion would better fit in altcoin discussion since it's all about altcoin discussion here.

[jackg]

Bitcoin's pool data looks quite interesting (a lot of mining is done by miners that are hard for them to identify):
https://www.blockchain.com/pools

I think more about ethereum being pos and more centralised because of it will come out too (especially because of how much needs to be staked to get a reward and how larger players in the crypto industry will do better at obtaining and keeping these amounts).

I'd imagine exchanges go up to holding about 60-70% of coins if we include binance but then mining has done similar by only two pools in tha past (although people can switch pools faster than they can switch staking company - if they can even switch staking company).

I think eth was safer letting a pos coin overtake them rather than being that coin. But I guess it's open source - perhaps a rival chain can come out.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

It seems the major concern about Proof of stake that experts here warned about has begin to see the light.
According to cointelegraph, 40% of ethereum nodes are controlled by two addresses which are Lido and Coinbase.
This has just proven more that POS is not decentralized and favours investors with higher token supply
source

Its worth to add that coinbase and many more big pools can be controlled by US government. Such as large investment funds that allow you to invest in ETH. So sooner or later ETH might become centralized and controlled by US government. My bet is that the bigger winner of eth merge is bitcoin

[fiulpro]

Everything favours investors with high token states, we already know few things to consider when we are trading even in Bitcoins, you have to understand the fact that the price is dependent on demand and supply, which also means that people who do hold major value can create a low demand by selling the bitcoins and then increasing the supply transiently, thus I do think that it's not just extended to ETH or its nodes, it's everywhere, but at the end of the day, it favours the whales ofc, but they are the ones who loose loads as well if something wrong happens, this is something that we have to somehow solve. Whales or not they should not have the power to control the market.

[serjent05]

I can't say that POS is fully centralized because there are still more than one validators that may have different views.  POS may be inclined to centralization but I don't think it is created as that.  POS favors people who are staking huge amounts of tokens but doesn't POW has the same concept?  Those who have higher hashes have the say when consensus happens.  It is that in POS it is easier for the developers and whales to control the decisions because developers had initially owned the whole pre-mine until the coins is distributed.

[The Cryptovator]

Most cryptocurrency isn't truly decentralized except Bitcoin. So no matter whether it's PoS or PoW. We need to save gas fees. I don't like too high gas fees to control my tokens. I disagree with OP, we can't all it fully centralized just for PoS, but it's not truly decentralized which hasn't ever. So nothing new to be honest.

[bitcoin-shark]

40% of nodes controlled by only 2 addresses? other than decentralization means that all the most important decisions will pass only by the will of a few, however, we already knew

[cabron]

POS being centralized were known already even with few coins before this merge. The excitement was just too much, the holder were very happy thinking this will really explode the day of merge. I can feel the disappointment.

Why the hype of ETH merge reached over to the mainstream media seem surprising,its an early celebration for Lido,  Coinbase and their friends to finally get a hold of everyone's ERC tokens.

[Johnyz]

Many knows this already even before the hype of merging with ETH. POS is not fully decentralized not because of the ownership of big investors but also with their system. Well, this can happen to any network as long as they have the money to invest then probably they can control the price movement. Though if you are looking in the whole picture, this can still be a good update regardless if its centralized or not, the purpose of merge is very clear and we might see its effect in the coming months.

[jossiel]

Well, that's to be expected.

POS is POS and it isn't secured as POW. While it's already in POS, the huge addresses and players are the ones that will dominate on this matter. And we're like being held by them since they've got a huge share of the network.

We can't do anything from there and let's see on how each of the close ones to them try to achieve where they are.

[vv181]

It is been known that Proof of Stake has been lack of decentralization mechanism, by design. It's not surprising that such a system produce that kind of output, even their community itself mostly just simply doesn't care about it. So indeed it is expected, the question should rather be how much centralization they are willing to get through. In another hand, measuring centralization doesn't solely able to be perceived using a consensus mechanism, rather there are many factors to see about, a cryptocurrency could still be using PoW but centralized in specific aspects.

[n0ne]

Well, that's to be expected.

POS is POS and it isn't secured as POW. While it's already in POS, the huge addresses and players are the ones that will dominate on this matter. And we're like being held by them since they've got a huge share of the network.

We can't do anything from there and let's see on how each of the close ones to them try to achieve where they are.

The transition from POW to POS is a big thing in cryptocurrency. Now this will slowly have its characteristic changes. The major one being the market getting turned to be centralized. When a huge volume is within the hands of few big players in the market it is going to be more centralized. This could let the market to be progressive based on the manipulation and real move gets disturbed.

[philipma1957]

I can't say that POS is fully centralized because there are still more than one validators that may have different views.  POS may be inclined to centralization but I don't think it is created as that.  POS favors people who are staking huge amounts of tokens but doesn't POW has the same concept?  Those who have higher hashes have the say when consensus happens.  It is that in POS it is easier for the developers and whales to control the decisions because developers had initially owned the whole pre-mine until the coins is distributed.

actually in the case of eth

72 million coins for the pre mine

60 million were sold for 3.8 million

12 million were given to the developers for nothing

and 50 million coins were mined

total of 122 million coins

under 20 million are staked.

so a lot can go wrong for the stake coins

Ie who is to say some one simple starts swapping his cheap eth from pre mined wallets for etc

drives eth done and etc up acts as mining support.

a lot o players could do that.

and the staked coins are frozen for months to come.

I would feel very uncomfortable knowing my stake is frozen and millions of pre mined coins are easy to convert to btc or etc or cash.

[dothebeats]

And people think PoS is still superior to PoW..

Neither of them are the best all around, but the latter is harder to get a huge stake on than the former, and control the whole blockchain at a whim. Sure it may cost a lot of energy to maintain and secure the blockchain, but no approaches or algorithm has been made to put security against centralization at the top except for PoW. Also, I think a lot of people who bought into PoS coins know the risks of centralization and they are just trying to shrug it off since they believe that no foolish moves will be made by those who control a huge number of coins anyway, because it also affects the value of their investment.

[Sarah Azhari]

It seems the major concern about Proof of stake that experts here warned about has begin to see the light.
According to cointelegraph, 40% of ethereum nodes are controlled by two addresses which are Lido and Coinbase.
This has just proven more that POS is not decentralized and favours investors with higher token supply
source

It's not a problem if people have money oriented. The More decentralized and controlled the more you got profit. those who are interested to join because they think they can create more money than POW. we just now both are greedy companies.

[dansus021]

yeah I know a lot of people are concern about this even in PoW industry you can still pretty much get a 20% or more hash rate in a single mining pool but they are in different company and still made up 40% if they want to change the chain they need at least 51% combine in single pool

[jossiel]

Well, that's to be expected.

POS is POS and it isn't secured as POW. While it's already in POS, the huge addresses and players are the ones that will dominate on this matter. And we're like being held by them since they've got a huge share of the network.

We can't do anything from there and let's see on how each of the close ones to them try to achieve where they are.

The transition from POW to POS is a big thing in cryptocurrency. Now this will slowly have its characteristic changes. The major one being the market getting turned to be centralized. When a huge volume is within the hands of few big players in the market it is going to be more centralized. This could let the market to be progressive based on the manipulation and real move gets disturbed.

We'll just look at that positive thing you've said about the progress.

But there's no other thing that we can think of it when it's already centralized. There's now a control and those huge enterprises who has got a better amount of holding are controlling the network.

The manipulation is always going to be there and people won't have that comfort on it but yeah, the progress through their help is there but it's no longer the same as before like everyone is on a free market.

[Jackl87]

It seems the major concern about Proof of stake that experts here warned about has begin to see the light.
According to cointelegraph, 40% of ethereum nodes are controlled by two addresses which are Lido and Coinbase.

If that is true, than this is definitely a concerning number in terms of centralizsation and of course power within the Ethereum network. That being said, i am also pretty sure that those huge mining farms in china also had a pretty big share of the whole Ethereum mining power under their control. That is also the reason why those big mining companies where tryping to push that ETHPoW fork now, but so far it seems like that will be not really successful.
In my opinion the switch from PoW to PoS had to happen because otherwise big companies or institutions would be reluctant to use Ethereum as their network for blockchain applications. In the word of today it is a huge bonus if you are a climate friendly project.