"Religion is always in the control business..."

[Harvey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LkaH3hEmV3M

From a priest:

"I don't think hell exists... It's part of a control tactic..."

"The church doesn't like the people to grow up because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being 'born again': When you are born-again, you are still a child. People don't need to be born-again. They need to grow-up; they need to accept responsibility for themselves and the world."

I haven't heard more truth from a title that usually evokes lies.

[1714996049]

1714996049

[1714996049]

1714996049

[boonies4u]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LkaH3hEmV3M

From a priest:

"I don't think hell exists... It's part of a control tactic..."

"The church doesn't like the people to grow up because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being 'born again': When you are born-again, you are still a child. People don't need to be born-again. They need to grow-up; they need to accept responsibility for themselves and the world."

I haven't heard more truth from a title that usually evokes lies.

God 2.0 (New Age) + Chick Tract's anti-religion stance = Christianity 2.0?

[JeffK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LkaH3hEmV3M

From a priest:

"I don't think hell exists... It's part of a control tactic..."

"The church doesn't like the people to grow up because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being 'born again': When you are born-again, you are still a child. People don't need to be born-again. They need to grow-up; they need to accept responsibility for themselves and the world."

I haven't heard more truth from a title that usually evokes lies.

The isn't much evidence for hell in the Bible or Quran, especially in the original translations


Yes, it is more of a concept used for control, always has been and always will be.

[neptop]

Hehe, I recently had a long discussion with some other atheist about why you can't blame religion for stuff. Please don't waste your time with pro/anti-religion discussions. It will just cause misunderstanding and hatred instead of getting actually getting things done. You can tell anyone, no matter whether believer or not about why something is the right thing right now, regardless of hell or god. If you are an atheist (or agnostic or something like that) you can usually even say why it's right from a religious point of view or just argument that god gave you a brain to think. At least these things worked out quite well for me. And if you are talking to someone who doesn't care about anything why waste your time and energy? It's the same for believers. Better argue about doing the right thing instead of using god as an argument. After all that's what it's all about.

I like that guy's point of view. It's very tolerant.

[bb113]

I believe that you can cherry pick in islam, I have seen it.

[Flip Tulipcoin]

At this point in history, the Semitic religions are a curse on humanity. They continue by the ritual abuse of children whose natural susceptibility to supernaturalism is exploited, filling the world with far too many permanently damaged adult children and their invisible friends.

To pick and choose from any of this sick vein of sunstroked Bronze Age nonsense is to miss the bigger picture wherein you are being played for a sucker as means of social control.

[bb113]

Why is pork prohibited though?

[ineededausername]

Why is pork prohibited though?

Because of this verse

"Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." 5:3 AL Ma'ida

a video I googled http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nZAhexhxbs for more info

hope that explains

But isn't that in the Quran (you said Christians shouldn't eat pork either)?  Also, that looks like it prohibits all meat: "prohibited to you are dead animals."

[Raoul Duke]

They’re Made Out of Meat
From the collection:
Bears Discover Fire and Other Stories
by Terry Bisson

"They’re made out of meat.”

“Meat?”

“Meat. They’re made out of meat.”

“Meat?”

“There’s no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They’re completely meat.”

“That’s impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?”

“They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don’t come from them. The signals come from machines.”

“So who made the machines? That’s who we want to contact.”

“They made the machines. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.”

“That’s ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You’re asking me to believe in sentient meat.”

“I’m not asking you, I’m telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they’re made out of meat.”

“Maybe they’re like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.”

“Nope. They’re born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn’t take long. Do you have any idea what’s the life span of meat?”

“Spare me. Okay, maybe they’re only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.”

“Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They’re meat all the way through.”

“No brain?”

“Oh, there’s a brain all right. It’s just that the brain is made out of meat! That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.”

“So . . . what does the thinking?”

“You’re not understanding, are you? You’re refusing to deal with what I’m telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat.”

“Thinking meat! You’re asking me to believe in thinking meat!”

“Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?”

“Omigod. You’re serious then. They’re made out of meat.”

“Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they’ve been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.”

“Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?”

“First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual.”

“We’re supposed to talk to meat.”

“That’s the idea. That’s the message they’re sending out by radio. ‘Hello. Anyone out there? Anybody home?’ That sort of thing.”

“They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?”

“Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.”

“I thought you just told me they used radio.”

“They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.”

“Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?”

“Officially or unofficially?”

“Both.”

“Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.”

“I was hoping you would say that.”

“It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?”

“I agree one hundred percent. What’s there to say? ‘Hello, meat. How’s it going?’ But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?”

“Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can’t live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.”

“So we just pretend there’s no one home in the Universe.”

“That’s it.”

“Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You’re sure they won’t remember?”

“They’ll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we’re just a dream to them.”

“A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat’s dream.”

“And we marked the entire sector unoccupied.”

“Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?”

“Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen-core cluster intelligence in a class-nine star in G445 zone was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.”

“They always come around.”

“And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone . . . ”

[NghtRppr]

God is dead. The new mythology revolves around the state.

[bb113]

But isn't that in the Quran (you said Christians shouldn't eat pork either)?  Also, that looks like it prohibits all meat: "prohibited to you are dead animals."

Leviticus 11:7-8 ESV
"And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you."

Matthew 5:17-19 ESV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven"

and many other verses here http://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_pork

jesus was a jew, jews dont eat pork. a good video for Christians to watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urzc8Zb9QVM

as for " Also, that looks like it prohibits all meat: "prohibited to you are dead animals"

it means animals that are already dead like roadkill

Further Classifications of the Dead Animal

Four principal categories of prohibited animal foods have been discussed above. To these five more categories are added as further classifications of the dead animals.

Killed by Strangling:

An animal killed by strangling: for example, by a rope around its neck, or by being suffocated.

Killed by a Violent Blow:

An animal killed by beating violently.

Killed by a Headlong Fall:

An animal killed by falling from a high place or by falling into a ditch or ravine.

Killed by being Gored:

An animal killed by being gored by the horns of another animal.

Killed by being Partly Eaten by a Wild Animal:

An animal killed as a result of being partially eaten by a wild animal or by being attacked by it.

Of all the categories of the dead animals, anyone still alive and showing sign of life by moving its hoof or leg etc. may be slaughtered immediately and without loss of time to be declared as `halal` (lawful). Hadrat `Ali Ibn Abu Talib is reported to have said: "If you can slaughter the beaten, the fallen or the gored animal while it (still) moves its hoof or leg, you may eat it." Al-Dahak comments: "The people of the Age of Ignorance used to eat them (dead animals); then Allah prohibited them in Islam, excepting what is slaughtered. If it is slaughtered while it (still) moves a leg, its tail, or an eye, it is halal (lawful).

Some jurists are of the opinion that there must be life in it, the signs of which are the flow of blood and reflex movements. http://islam.pakistanway.com/showbookdetail.aspx?bookid=298&bookname=Halal%20And%20Haram

I was more asking for why it was written to not eat pork. There must have been some reason for it.

[bb113]

Through science we know why pork is prohibited.

why?

[JohnOliver]

Through science we know why pork is prohibited.

why?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_restrictions_on_the_consumption_of_pork

[bb113]

Maimonides, the Jewish philosopher and legal codifier, who was also court physician to the Muslim sultan Saladin in the twelfth century, understands the dietary laws chiefly as a means of keeping the body healthy. He argued that the meat of the forbidden animals, birds, and fish is unwholesome and indigestible. According to Maimonides, at first glance, this does not apply to pork, which does not appear to be harmful. Yet, Maimonides observes, the pig is a filthy animal and if swine were used for food, marketplaces and even houses would be dirtier than latrines

The cultural materialistic anthropologist Marvin Harris thinks that the main reason for prohibiting consumption of pork was ecological-economical. Pigs require water and shady woods with seeds, but those conditions are scarce in Israel and the Middle East. They cannot forage grass like ruminants. Instead, they compete with humans for expensive grain. Unlike many other forms of livestock, pigs are omnivorous scavengers, eating virtually anything they come across, including carrion and refuse. This was deemed unclean, hence a Middle Eastern society keeping large stocks of pigs would destroy their ecosystem. Harris points out how, while the Hebrews are also forbidden to eat camels and fish without scales, Arab nomads couldn't afford to starve in the desert whilst having camels around.

These are basically the arguments for vegetarianism.

[bb113]

I believe that if there is a god there must be a reason to his laws. Is this not what Muslims believe?

[JohnOliver]

Maimonides, the Jewish philosopher and legal codifier, who was also court physician to the Muslim sultan Saladin in the twelfth century, understands the dietary laws chiefly as a means of keeping the body healthy. He argued that the meat of the forbidden animals, birds, and fish is unwholesome and indigestible. According to Maimonides, at first glance, this does not apply to pork, which does not appear to be harmful. Yet, Maimonides observes, the pig is a filthy animal and if swine were used for food, marketplaces and even houses would be dirtier than latrines

The cultural materialistic anthropologist Marvin Harris thinks that the main reason for prohibiting consumption of pork was ecological-economical. Pigs require water and shady woods with seeds, but those conditions are scarce in Israel and the Middle East. They cannot forage grass like ruminants. Instead, they compete with humans for expensive grain. Unlike many other forms of livestock, pigs are omnivorous scavengers, eating virtually anything they come across, including carrion and refuse. This was deemed unclean, hence a Middle Eastern society keeping large stocks of pigs would destroy their ecosystem. Harris points out how, while the Hebrews are also forbidden to eat camels and fish without scales, Arab nomads couldn't afford to starve in the desert whilst having camels around.

These are basically the arguments for vegetarianism.

No, they are arguments for eatings ruminants. Science already showed that humans can't survive on vegetables alone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12).

[bb113]

1) Science now allows us to avoid the need for ruminants via direct cultivation of vitamin B12 from bacteria, or synthesize it directly (probably more expensive)

2) Milk and eggs

[boonies4u]

1) Science now allows us to avoid the need for ruminants via direct cultivation of vitamin B12 from bacteria, or synthesize it directly (probably more expensive)

2) Milk and eggs

Technically none of those are vegetables.

[bb113]

I was responding to his first sentence. He also didn't mention fruits...

[JohnOliver]

1) Science now allows us to avoid the need for ruminants via direct cultivation of vitamin B12 from bacteria, or synthesize it directly (probably more expensive)

2) Milk and eggs

1) Yes, modern science can help us get vitamin B12 artificially. But 2000 years ago it wasn't possible. So instead of saying "you guys need vitamin B12 to survive", God said "go eat these animals on my approved list".

2) Drinking milk but not eating the cows would be a waste. Eating eggs but not the hens would be a waste. 

[bb113]

1) Right, so now that we think we understand the spirit of the god given law it should be updated to account for modern technology. People back then were not ready to hear about "bacteria".

2) As would not eating "split hoofed animals" if they happened to be around. What at first seems like a waste may be better for a society or individual for unexpected reasons.

[JohnOliver]

1) Right, so now that we think we understand the spirit of the god given law it should be updated to account for modern technology. People back then were not ready to hear about "bacteria".

2) As would not eating "split hoofed animals" if they happened to be around. What at first seems like a waste may be better for a society or individual for unexpected reasons.

Indeed. I had some clams for dinner. I don't wanna be stoned to death by my neighbors.

I was just saying that modern science found evidence that those prohibitions made sense 2000 years ago. Obviously none of them makes sense today. 

[bb113]

If all animals go extinct besides swine and humans, the law still allows for consumption of pork to "meat" (haha) nutritional needs. It seems less like a law and more like a recommendation.

[bb113]

Out of curiosity, does Islam prohibit consumption of human flesh in times of starvation?

[bb113]

It almost seems easier to me to rely on my own reasoning and interpretation of evidence than to tie myself down to what has been written in the past by authors who do not know the details of the world I live in. For example, the organ transplant issue. I had never thought of it as similar to cannibalism, but I can see the similarity. How do you see it? I imagine something like: "In the past, noone had conceived of organ transplants, so the wording of the laws did not account for the possibility."

[bb113]

I still think it would be better if the Quran could be updated to account for new information learned from science (eg, bacteria, vitamin b12, etc)

[Flip Tulipcoin]

I still think it would be better if the Quran could be updated to account for new information learned from science (eg, bacteria, vitamin b12, etc)

Which version of the Quran? The copies that were interred in the walls of mosques hundreds of years ago are at variance with the stuff that is passed around these days. What to do, what to do?

It's really much better just to outgrow all this sunstroked Semitic nonsense, why go through life as a superstitious child?

[bithobo]

All religion is beautiful, as long as we don't try to replace progress with magic

[dayfall]

Is it any wonder why some religions talk so much about heaven and hell?  Is it to convert the unbeliever?  No, I know for a fact that the threats of the Christian and Islamic hell don't cause me any loss of sleep.  Nor does the promise of their heavens.  Hence, it is to control the believers lest they should get a desire to doubt and perhaps risk the consequences.

[Flip Tulipcoin]

Is it any wonder why some religions talk so much about heaven and hell?  Is it to convert the unbeliever?  No, I know for a fact that the threats of the Christian and Islamic hell don't cause me any loss of sleep.  Nor does the promise of their heavens.  Hence, it is to control the believers lest they should get a desire to doubt and perhaps risk the consequences.

Claiming to have an "inside line" with a supernatural world is the world's oldest confidence scheme. Such silly games are for silly children to play with each other.

[bithobo]

It works both ways. Many people started looking at science from religious-like point of view after Ray Kurzweil's predictions of eternal life through genetic manipulation and uploaded consciousness. That doesn't make science a bad thing.

[Flip Tulipcoin]

It works both ways. Many people started looking at science from religious-like point of view after Ray Kurzweil's predictions of eternal life through genetic manipulation and uploaded consciousness. That doesn't make science a bad thing.

No, it doesn't. Science attempts to achieve intersubjective reliability methodically using resources like evidence, the experimental method, and replicatable results. Religion simply insists that it is there by assertion, it's no wonder so many of these monkeys are stuck in the Bronze Age whereas scientific knowledge improves every day. Now, pass that slab of pork, it's time for the sacraments 

[Flip Tulipcoin]

Speaking of religion and social control:

Jesus Escapes Fat Dominatrix Thanks to Bluetooth Earpiece
http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/jesus-escapes-fat-dominatrix-thanks-bluetooth-earpiece-130764

[bb113]

I still think it would be better if the Quran could be updated to account for new information learned from science (eg, bacteria, vitamin b12, etc)

Quran is not a physics book or biology book. The scientific miracles in the quran are there for people to believe in and increase their faith in god. (and benefit from it)

lets say for the sake of argument that Quran is updated and new information added from science , that would then make the Qur'an no longer word of god, but words of man. Also science today may be wrong in future, and so Quran would have to be updated many times, each time new discovery is made or new theory is proven/disproven , the quran would be altered and changed like the bible.

The Quran hasnt change for more than 1400 years, everything in the quran is 100% true (according to muslims )

example : - "With power did We construct Heaven. Verily, We are expanding it. (51:47)" now you can say thats the big bang theory , we dont know 100% big bang theory is true, but science shows universe is expanding, so the above verse is 100% scientific and accurate, dont you agree? 1400 years old and never changed and its right.

the quran is a holy scripture, you cant just add the periodic table, and other scientific discoveries to the quran.

There are many people in the world who do not benefit from their belief in god. This belief allows them to be easier manipulated by cynical leaders. Further, how do you know for certain that noone has subtly altered the words of the Quran 1000 years ago and destroyed evidence of other versions? Also, while "With power did We construct Heaven. Verily, We are expanding it. (51:47)" may refer to the same phenomenon that we today observe as redshifted galaxies... it is not useful information without the science. By useful I mean you can not use it to predict causes and effects. It is more likely that your mind is finding a pattern that reinforces your preconceived beliefs.

[bb113]

There are many people in the world who do not benefit from their belief in god.

I should make clear that I do not mean this is always true, or even necessarily what happens for the majority. But, you must admit, it does happen and is a problem with faith.

[bithobo]

People have natural cravings for religion about as much as they do for art. It's sad to see leaders abusing this by forcibly displaying themselves as god-like entities

[dayfall]

The scientific miracles in the quran are there for people to believe in and increase their faith in god. (and benefit from it)

example : - "With power did We construct Heaven. Verily, We are expanding it. (51:47)" now you can say thats the big bang theory , we dont know 100% big bang theory is true, but science shows universe is expanding, so the above verse is 100% scientific and accurate, dont you agree? 1400 years old and never changed and its right.

You can also say that isn't the big bang theory.  Your claims of miracles are lies.  They are simply reinterpretations chosen to match science.  At least you aren't trying to say the Quran says that the earth is Ostrich egg shaped.

I don't think the Quran needs to be updated.  It needs to be seen for what it is.  Keep it and it's interpretations intact; embryos being blood clots and all.

[Lethn]

That's awesome that a priest is finally saying it, this has been my belief about many so called 'ideologies' over the years that I've seen, they all either use fear or violence to keep people in control or a mixture of both, when people question things too much that's when they get ridiculed and attacked, they also have no problem doing this to children because they know if they do it at a young age. The only worthwhile sort of ideologies I've found are science and Anarchism, science because it's all about the pursuit of the truth and Anarchism because it's all about thinking for yourself and being independent of any central authority or master.

The great thing is if you question the followers of these ideologies even with basic things because they don't know any of the reasoning behind it they usually resort to threatening you or trash talking etc.

[hawkeye]

I'd never thought about "Born again" like that before.  

I've long known that all these systems of control basically work the same way.  That you want to make people feel helpless, childlike so that they need the leader/s.   They all do the same thing from governments to religions to cults to controlling parents.  Try to keep you in a childlike state.  It's why there are so many childlike adults around today and we have the nanny government.   And why the levels of insecurity amongst people are so high these days.  It's how we are being trained.  And also, why we are in more danger from our govts than ever.  So much power vested in them just waiting for the wrong person or wrong set of circumstances to come along...

But yeah, born again... that is so true what he says.

[tkbx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LkaH3hEmV3M

From a priest:

"I don't think hell exists... It's part of a control tactic..."

"The church doesn't like the people to grow up because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being 'born again': When you are born-again, you are still a child. People don't need to be born-again. They need to grow-up; they need to accept responsibility for themselves and the world."

I haven't heard more truth from a title that usually evokes lies.

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Intentional or accidental, hell has become an extended metaphor. It's merely the lack of Heaven, not some eternal fire bullshit.

The idea is that if you truly love God, not being in Heaven with him would be comparable to "a lake of fire".

[dank]

We are in hell and to burn in eternal hell fire is to reincarnate indefinitely on earth like planets.

[beetcoin]

isn't religion, for the most part, just a tax-free business? the way scientology, mormonism, the vatican, and many other religions and religious institutions work is by convincing you to subscribe, and then you have to tithe a certain amount.. which is non-taxed, and used to "spread the word" to even more people.

[ajax3592]

isn't religion, for the most part, just a tax-free business? the way scientology, mormonism, the vatican, and many other religions and religious institutions work is by convincing you to subscribe, and then you have to tithe a certain amount.. which is non-taxed, and used to "spread the word" to even more people.

Hehe   exactly, just like affiliate system... but you dont get any payout just "faith" lol
Its a full-fledged business. Gods were aliens.