"Religion is always in the control business..."

[bb113]

1) Right, so now that we think we understand the spirit of the god given law it should be updated to account for modern technology. People back then were not ready to hear about "bacteria".

2) As would not eating "split hoofed animals" if they happened to be around. What at first seems like a waste may be better for a society or individual for unexpected reasons.

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[JohnOliver]

1) Right, so now that we think we understand the spirit of the god given law it should be updated to account for modern technology. People back then were not ready to hear about "bacteria".

2) As would not eating "split hoofed animals" if they happened to be around. What at first seems like a waste may be better for a society or individual for unexpected reasons.

Indeed. I had some clams for dinner. I don't wanna be stoned to death by my neighbors.

I was just saying that modern science found evidence that those prohibitions made sense 2000 years ago. Obviously none of them makes sense today. 

[bb113]

If all animals go extinct besides swine and humans, the law still allows for consumption of pork to "meat" (haha) nutritional needs. It seems less like a law and more like a recommendation.

[bb113]

Out of curiosity, does Islam prohibit consumption of human flesh in times of starvation?

[bb113]

It almost seems easier to me to rely on my own reasoning and interpretation of evidence than to tie myself down to what has been written in the past by authors who do not know the details of the world I live in. For example, the organ transplant issue. I had never thought of it as similar to cannibalism, but I can see the similarity. How do you see it? I imagine something like: "In the past, noone had conceived of organ transplants, so the wording of the laws did not account for the possibility."

[bb113]

I still think it would be better if the Quran could be updated to account for new information learned from science (eg, bacteria, vitamin b12, etc)

[Flip Tulipcoin]

I still think it would be better if the Quran could be updated to account for new information learned from science (eg, bacteria, vitamin b12, etc)

Which version of the Quran? The copies that were interred in the walls of mosques hundreds of years ago are at variance with the stuff that is passed around these days. What to do, what to do?

It's really much better just to outgrow all this sunstroked Semitic nonsense, why go through life as a superstitious child?

[bithobo]

All religion is beautiful, as long as we don't try to replace progress with magic

[dayfall]

Is it any wonder why some religions talk so much about heaven and hell?  Is it to convert the unbeliever?  No, I know for a fact that the threats of the Christian and Islamic hell don't cause me any loss of sleep.  Nor does the promise of their heavens.  Hence, it is to control the believers lest they should get a desire to doubt and perhaps risk the consequences.

[Flip Tulipcoin]

Is it any wonder why some religions talk so much about heaven and hell?  Is it to convert the unbeliever?  No, I know for a fact that the threats of the Christian and Islamic hell don't cause me any loss of sleep.  Nor does the promise of their heavens.  Hence, it is to control the believers lest they should get a desire to doubt and perhaps risk the consequences.

Claiming to have an "inside line" with a supernatural world is the world's oldest confidence scheme. Such silly games are for silly children to play with each other.

[bithobo]

It works both ways. Many people started looking at science from religious-like point of view after Ray Kurzweil's predictions of eternal life through genetic manipulation and uploaded consciousness. That doesn't make science a bad thing.

[Flip Tulipcoin]

It works both ways. Many people started looking at science from religious-like point of view after Ray Kurzweil's predictions of eternal life through genetic manipulation and uploaded consciousness. That doesn't make science a bad thing.

No, it doesn't. Science attempts to achieve intersubjective reliability methodically using resources like evidence, the experimental method, and replicatable results. Religion simply insists that it is there by assertion, it's no wonder so many of these monkeys are stuck in the Bronze Age whereas scientific knowledge improves every day. Now, pass that slab of pork, it's time for the sacraments 

[Flip Tulipcoin]

Speaking of religion and social control:

Jesus Escapes Fat Dominatrix Thanks to Bluetooth Earpiece
http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/jesus-escapes-fat-dominatrix-thanks-bluetooth-earpiece-130764

[bb113]

I still think it would be better if the Quran could be updated to account for new information learned from science (eg, bacteria, vitamin b12, etc)

Quran is not a physics book or biology book. The scientific miracles in the quran are there for people to believe in and increase their faith in god. (and benefit from it)

lets say for the sake of argument that Quran is updated and new information added from science , that would then make the Qur'an no longer word of god, but words of man. Also science today may be wrong in future, and so Quran would have to be updated many times, each time new discovery is made or new theory is proven/disproven , the quran would be altered and changed like the bible.

The Quran hasnt change for more than 1400 years, everything in the quran is 100% true (according to muslims )

example : - "With power did We construct Heaven. Verily, We are expanding it. (51:47)" now you can say thats the big bang theory , we dont know 100% big bang theory is true, but science shows universe is expanding, so the above verse is 100% scientific and accurate, dont you agree? 1400 years old and never changed and its right.

the quran is a holy scripture, you cant just add the periodic table, and other scientific discoveries to the quran.

There are many people in the world who do not benefit from their belief in god. This belief allows them to be easier manipulated by cynical leaders. Further, how do you know for certain that noone has subtly altered the words of the Quran 1000 years ago and destroyed evidence of other versions? Also, while "With power did We construct Heaven. Verily, We are expanding it. (51:47)" may refer to the same phenomenon that we today observe as redshifted galaxies... it is not useful information without the science. By useful I mean you can not use it to predict causes and effects. It is more likely that your mind is finding a pattern that reinforces your preconceived beliefs.

[bb113]

There are many people in the world who do not benefit from their belief in god.

I should make clear that I do not mean this is always true, or even necessarily what happens for the majority. But, you must admit, it does happen and is a problem with faith.

[bithobo]

People have natural cravings for religion about as much as they do for art. It's sad to see leaders abusing this by forcibly displaying themselves as god-like entities

[dayfall]

The scientific miracles in the quran are there for people to believe in and increase their faith in god. (and benefit from it)

example : - "With power did We construct Heaven. Verily, We are expanding it. (51:47)" now you can say thats the big bang theory , we dont know 100% big bang theory is true, but science shows universe is expanding, so the above verse is 100% scientific and accurate, dont you agree? 1400 years old and never changed and its right.

You can also say that isn't the big bang theory.  Your claims of miracles are lies.  They are simply reinterpretations chosen to match science.  At least you aren't trying to say the Quran says that the earth is Ostrich egg shaped.

I don't think the Quran needs to be updated.  It needs to be seen for what it is.  Keep it and it's interpretations intact; embryos being blood clots and all.

[Lethn]

That's awesome that a priest is finally saying it, this has been my belief about many so called 'ideologies' over the years that I've seen, they all either use fear or violence to keep people in control or a mixture of both, when people question things too much that's when they get ridiculed and attacked, they also have no problem doing this to children because they know if they do it at a young age. The only worthwhile sort of ideologies I've found are science and Anarchism, science because it's all about the pursuit of the truth and Anarchism because it's all about thinking for yourself and being independent of any central authority or master.

The great thing is if you question the followers of these ideologies even with basic things because they don't know any of the reasoning behind it they usually resort to threatening you or trash talking etc.

[hawkeye]

I'd never thought about "Born again" like that before.  

I've long known that all these systems of control basically work the same way.  That you want to make people feel helpless, childlike so that they need the leader/s.   They all do the same thing from governments to religions to cults to controlling parents.  Try to keep you in a childlike state.  It's why there are so many childlike adults around today and we have the nanny government.   And why the levels of insecurity amongst people are so high these days.  It's how we are being trained.  And also, why we are in more danger from our govts than ever.  So much power vested in them just waiting for the wrong person or wrong set of circumstances to come along...

But yeah, born again... that is so true what he says.

[tkbx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LkaH3hEmV3M

From a priest:

"I don't think hell exists... It's part of a control tactic..."

"The church doesn't like the people to grow up because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being 'born again': When you are born-again, you are still a child. People don't need to be born-again. They need to grow-up; they need to accept responsibility for themselves and the world."

I haven't heard more truth from a title that usually evokes lies.

"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

Intentional or accidental, hell has become an extended metaphor. It's merely the lack of Heaven, not some eternal fire bullshit.

The idea is that if you truly love God, not being in Heaven with him would be comparable to "a lake of fire".