Private Keys on Collectibles Discussion

[Bullion-n-BTC]

After reading the 100 XRM Lealana coin post with its faded private key I got to thinking…. Are all private keys subject to this “fading / deterioration” over time? Would a private key be better off printed as a QR code or as an alpha-numeric sequence? Does it make a difference if the 🔑 is printed on water proof paper or if it’s ink jet or laser jet printed? So many variables at play that I think a truly controlled, long term study would be needed with multiple variables and a control group would be needed. Has anybody done anything like this or have experience? Any tips for making private keys?  Thanks guys looking forward to the responses

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[krogoth]

 Good question....I do both in QR code and alphanumeric on laser printed water proof paper

  Have a test going on for close to 2 years now for private keys under water and they are fine.

TESTING- Submersing paper wallets printed on water proof papers

[Hox]

TeeGUMES' Canary thread is by far the best resource for this. Check it out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290065.0

[Ticked]

Personally I have long been a proponent of vellum paper & laser printer for any and all paper wallet functions. This combination is not an ink printing process susceptible to degradation at the same rate of an inkjet on semi gloss which is what many makers used for paper source early on for some reason I cannot understand.

Vellum + laser. Vellum paper is water proof & tear resistant. I can't tear a sheet with bare hands. It also has a semi porous surface. A toner based laser printer prints by melting plastic particulate onto the print medium. This combination should make for long lasting adherence without the risk of ink fade. Directly out of the printer, I cannot even smudge or scratch the ink with a coin. I have left privkeys printed like this in a glass of water for over a week resulting in zero state change. I did not test further as I felt this was adequate for personal use.

I am not in support of printing on any gloss or semi gloss paper surfaces including waterproof variants as adhesion to a gloss surface is inherently more difficult to achieve.

Just my .02

[aoluain]

Interesting topic.
Obviously the aim would be target the highest quality printing process on an archival
type medium, something that is proven to last. From my photography days there were
papers available with a 100 year life span.

The printing has to be capable of super fine print, a $150 printer is not going to cut
the mustard!

[MoparMiningLLC]

The water proof paper I use with my laser printer has vern submerged for around a year and still legible - I will try scraping it with a coin fresh out of the printer - never had one smudge though during application

Thanks @Ticked

[JanEmil]

In generel I see the BTC as burned. They are part of an artwork/collectible.

Resell. Don’t claim.

[Kryptowerk]

I've never peeled anything except one Moonbits.
Since I was in direct contact with the creator I got some insight on the quality of private key production. They are almost-anything resistant (scratch, heat, water, acid, any kind of light spectrum) and the laser print has similar properties.

I was also a little shocked to read up on the Lealana private key issue and then did some research regarding some of the other big player coins. To me, unless you are a super-niche "just for friends and as a hobby" producer, it baffles me, that it is not common practice to use better, more resistant and more durable materials for the most valuable aspect of these collectibles.

Just my 50 satoshis.

In generel I see the BTC as burned. They are part of an artwork/collectible.

Resell. Don’t claim.

I get the idea, but see it totally different.
One aspect I love about crypto collectibles is the amazing mix of traditional collectible (maybe including some rare metals) and crypto. This creates a situation where you would always hesitate to "destroy" this rare collectible to access the funds. And thus just make it an amazing way to long-term safe some cryptocurrency.
If this feature is in danger, it loses a lot of its charm to me personally.

[OgNasty]

Engraving the private keys onto metal is the only thing that I've ever felt was really secure from this sort of issue (fading or destroyed private keys).  I've done some testing and haven't been able to do anything to engravings I've made to make them unreadable.  I'm sure it's possible, but hard to imagine happening by accident or over time.  I don't think the method used to convey the private key (QR code vs text) really matters.  It's more about what kind of damage it can sustain and still be intact.  

Those who may be unaware can get metal engraved wallets done by yours truly following this link: https://nastyfans.org/mint

[MoparMiningLLC]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

[owlcatz]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

Where the heck is @TeeGumes when ya need him?

[MoparMiningLLC]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

Where the heck is @TeeGumes when ya need him?

did he test this out?

[owlcatz]

did he test this out?

Unfortunately, I don't think so. But it would be a good thing to add!

[MoparMiningLLC]

did he test this out?

Unfortunately, I don't think so. But it would be a good thing to add!

agreed! anyone work for TSA and can run a few objects thru the scanners lol

[Bullion-n-BTC]

Good question....I do both in QR code and alphanumeric on laser printed water proof paper

  Have a test going on for close to 2 years now for private keys under water and they are fine.

TESTING- Submersing paper wallets printed on water proof papers

Do you do a QR code with the priv key around it wrapped in a circle?

[Bullion-n-BTC]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

That’s a good point. I actually may have a way to test this. I’ll work on it and get back with you

[OgNasty]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

That’s a good point. I actually may have a way to test this. I’ll work on it and get back with you

The original 1oz NastyFans Minted Seats included an aluminum insert behind an insulation layer to keep from any unforeseen reaction over time with the silver while making it difficult to use any sort of xray scanner to compromise the private key.  This ultimately was too much additional effort for me to continue doing at the price point and nobody seemed to care either way, but somewhere close to 100 of them were made this way and have homes in the collections of some of the earliest physical crypto collectors.  It is still possible for me to make them this way and they're somewhat easily identifiable by a bump under the center of the hologram (pictured below)...

[smoothie]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

That’s a good point. I actually may have a way to test this. I’ll work on it and get back with you

PM incoming.

if you are willing...

Send me your address, I'll ship you one brass and one nickel sample coin of my latest release to test to see if you can hack the key on the coins.

Hologram will be marked "unfunded sample coin" or something.

Curious what you can come up with.

[JanEmil]

Always be carefull with test if you don't want to know the answer

Proven some time ago you can take off the hologram unseen. At least for some coins.

We have a trust system. If we overthink it fall apart. 

[Bullion-n-BTC]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

That’s a good point. I actually may have a way to test this. I’ll work on it and get back with you

The original 1oz NastyFans Minted Seats included an aluminum insert behind an insulation layer to keep from any unforeseen reaction over time with the silver while making it difficult to use any sort of xray scanner to compromise the private key.  This ultimately was too much additional effort for me to continue doing at the price point and nobody seemed to care either way, but somewhere close to 100 of them were made this way and have homes in the collections of some of the earliest physical crypto collectors.  It is still possible for me to make them this way and they're somewhat easily identifiable by a bump under the center of the hologram (pictured below)...

Anybody know where I can get one of these? I’m curious to see if I can take a crack at them. Have a few ideas between X-ray & thermal imaging.