Private Keys on Collectibles Discussion

[smoothie]

Always be carefull with test if you don't want to know the answer

Proven some time ago you can take off the hologram unseen. At least for some coins.

We have a trust system. If we overthink it fall apart.  

Actually I would like to know the answer, which is why I made the offer to BullionBTC.

This currently only applies to my latest release of coins "RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS" as the are the only release thus far with a permanent copy of the key on the coin.

My terms/conditions that I sell these coins under to customers covers this very topic. Lealana coins are not hack proof, never claimed to be, never will claim to be.

Given I do not know if they can be hacked in this method with a permanently marked key on the coin, it would be better to know if this is the case now and publicly than to have someone doing it privately in secrecy, leading one to possibly scam others with loaded coins by selling them and then sweeping the funds after sale.


If it can be hacked with some xray machine etc, I have a solution to counteract that hacking (no it isn't with covering it with another piece of metal as Ognasty has spoke about above).

But I won't disclose my method I've come up with unless this proves to be hack-able.

[JanEmil]

But the end result for loadet coins will always be if you trust the marker or not.
You could build the best security ever made. If the maker sweep the coins og lose keys in the end you have notting.

Why does it work? Because we are on blockchain and we can validate ourself. Even 1 coin claimed we see. 

We have trust combined with validation.

Do I care if my coins can take a bomb, fire and laser beam. Not really. I hold my BTC for later use (not the much) in my wallet. And collect come coins but make sure to follow standard risk management and spread the risk.

[krogoth]

Good question....I do both in QR code and alphanumeric on laser printed water proof paper

  Have a test going on for close to 2 years now for private keys under water and they are fine.

TESTING- Submersing paper wallets printed on water proof papers

Do you do a QR code with the priv key around it wrapped in a circle?

  No...each is individual printout...so 2 pieces for the priv keys and one piece for the NFT...total of three

   I use Mycelium to generate the keys...as you can see from this pic I use the qr code and alphanumeric generated keys.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5296179.msg60398984#msg60398984

[Frank AlpenCoin]

I had a long discussion with my friend, Jabid, about physical Bitcoin. He compared them to wine, or art.

Wine can "go bad" with time and bad storage (light, temperature, humidity,...). Do you buy fine wines to drink, or to keep? What do you do if a bottle is "corked" ("bouchonnée" in french)?

Works of art can be counterfeited. The provenance and history of the works are very important and experts are sometimes needed to authenticate a painting.

In the future, the provenance of OG physical bitcoin (like Casascius, Lealana, BTCC,...) might become important, and perhaps experts like minerjones or elianite might be needed. I wouldn't buy a Casascius on ebay.

That said, following teegumes' thread, I print the keys on special paper that I order from Novalith in France, and I use pigmented ink. I dipped the keys in water with rust and after several months the qr codes were still readable.

But as Smoothie says: coins are not hack proof.

My 2 sats

P.S. In the future I will probably consider doing 2 pieces for the priv key (   Krogoth)...

[krogoth]

I had a long discussion with my friend, Jabid, about physical Bitcoin. He compared them to wine, or art.

Wine can "go bad" with time and bad storage (light, temperature, humidity,...). Do you buy fine wines to drink, or to keep? What do you do if a bottle is "corked" ("bouchonnée" in french)?

Works of art can be counterfeited. The provenance and history of the works are very important and experts are sometimes needed to authenticate a painting.

In the future, the provenance of OG physical bitcoin (like Casascius, Lealana, BTCC,...) might become important, and perhaps experts like minerjones or elianite might be needed. I wouldn't buy a Casascius on ebay.

That said, following teegumes' thread, I print the keys on special paper that I order from Novalith in France, and I use pigmented ink. I dipped the keys in water with rust and after several months the qr codes were still readable.

But as Smoothie says: coins are not hack proof.

My 2 sats

P.S. In the future I will probably consider doing 2 pieces for the priv key (   Krogoth)...

  Haha thanks for the shout-out Frank.

   For my Monero BTC Doge and LTC combo coin I had 8 priv keys PLUS an NFT wallet as well!

   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389190.msg59485933#msg59485933

  

[OgNasty]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

That’s a good point. I actually may have a way to test this. I’ll work on it and get back with you

The original 1oz NastyFans Minted Seats included an aluminum insert behind an insulation layer to keep from any unforeseen reaction over time with the silver while making it difficult to use any sort of xray scanner to compromise the private key.  This ultimately was too much additional effort for me to continue doing at the price point and nobody seemed to care either way, but somewhere close to 100 of them were made this way and have homes in the collections of some of the earliest physical crypto collectors.  It is still possible for me to make them this way and they're somewhat easily identifiable by a bump under the center of the hologram (pictured below)...

Anybody know where I can get one of these? I’m curious to see if I can take a crack at them. Have a few ideas between X-ray & thermal imaging.

You might need to find somebody who was actively collecting physical Bitcoin collectibles in 2013 in order to get your hands on one.  I have a few in my safe deposit box, but I suspect the price I'd want would be considered outrageous.  If you wanted to make an offer via PM, I could check around with some old timers and the NastyFans Slack group to see if anyone wants to sell.  After 9 years in someone's collection though, I suspect it may be more difficult than expected to get your hands on one. 

However, if you want one without the xray blocking insert to see if you can compromise it, you can still buy them here: https://nastyfans.org/mint

[smoothie]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

That’s a good point. I actually may have a way to test this. I’ll work on it and get back with you

The original 1oz NastyFans Minted Seats included an aluminum insert behind an insulation layer to keep from any unforeseen reaction over time with the silver while making it difficult to use any sort of xray scanner to compromise the private key.  This ultimately was too much additional effort for me to continue doing at the price point and nobody seemed to care either way, but somewhere close to 100 of them were made this way and have homes in the collections of some of the earliest physical crypto collectors.  It is still possible for me to make them this way and they're somewhat easily identifiable by a bump under the center of the hologram (pictured below)...

Anybody know where I can get one of these? I’m curious to see if I can take a crack at them. Have a few ideas between X-ray & thermal imaging.

You might need to find somebody who was actively collecting physical Bitcoin collectibles in 2013 in order to get your hands on one.  I have a few in my safe deposit box, but I suspect the price I'd want would be considered outrageous.  If you wanted to make an offer via PM, I could check around with some old timers and the NastyFans Slack group to see if anyone wants to sell.  After 9 years in someone's collection though, I suspect it may be more difficult than expected to get your hands on one.  

However, if you want one without the xray blocking insert to see if you can compromise it, you can still buy them here: https://nastyfans.org/mint

I think I have one of the single seat coins. I'd be willing to ship that coin over to BullionBTC as well assuming there isn't much funds on it and that he can return it to me when finished. I believe it is not one with the aluminum covering, just the hologram.

[buckrogers]

has anyone tested whether xray scanners or any type of scanners can get the pk's from an engraved coin?

That’s a good point. I actually may have a way to test this. I’ll work on it and get back with you

The original 1oz NastyFans Minted Seats included an aluminum insert behind an insulation layer to keep from any unforeseen reaction over time with the silver while making it difficult to use any sort of xray scanner to compromise the private key.  This ultimately was too much additional effort for me to continue doing at the price point and nobody seemed to care either way, but somewhere close to 100 of them were made this way and have homes in the collections of some of the earliest physical crypto collectors.  It is still possible for me to make them this way and they're somewhat easily identifiable by a bump under the center of the hologram (pictured below)...

Anybody know where I can get one of these? I’m curious to see if I can take a crack at them. Have a few ideas between X-ray & thermal imaging.

You might need to find somebody who was actively collecting physical Bitcoin collectibles in 2013 in order to get your hands on one.  I have a few in my safe deposit box, but I suspect the price I'd want would be considered outrageous.  If you wanted to make an offer via PM, I could check around with some old timers and the NastyFans Slack group to see if anyone wants to sell.  After 9 years in someone's collection though, I suspect it may be more difficult than expected to get your hands on one.  

However, if you want one without the xray blocking insert to see if you can compromise it, you can still buy them here: https://nastyfans.org/mint

The original 1oz NastyFans Minted Seats included an aluminum insert behind an insulation layer to keep from any unforeseen reaction over time with the silver while making it difficult to use any sort of xray scanner to compromise the private key.

Which serial numbers/pub keys had these, from the original 100? or if not the original first batch of 100 etc

somewhere close to 100 of them were made this way

probably easier to search for one to test with, if you have that info.

Im sure between most of the older members here we can find one to help the communinty test with?

thanks!