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Author Topic: BSV subforum  (Read 846 times)
gmaxwell (OP)
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September 22, 2022, 12:14:25 PM
Merited by Foxpup (15), EFS (10), Welsh (8), LoyceV (6), BlackHatCoiner (6), dkbit98 (5), NotATether (5), DdmrDdmr (4), un_rank (4), LeGaulois (3), Pmalek (3), DooMAD (2), NeuroticFish (2), DaveF (2), Lucius (1), ETFbitcoin (1), TheBeardedBaby (1), Charles-Tim (1)
 #1

Would people be supportive of creating a sub-forum for investigating/exposing Craig Wright and his BSV scam for the protection of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners?

Most of the people doing this work have been coordinating on twitter and reddit,  but BSV scammers have been flooding the platforms with false reports and have successfully knocked out more than a couple account thanks to idiotic and/or artificially-idiotic (AI) report processing. There is also a real risk that the scammers simply buy off the platforms (e.g. in the case of reddit) or their staff (e.g. in the case of twitter) to achieve their end. 

Moving a community around can be really hard but it doesn't necessarily need to happen:  If it's clear to the attackers that at most all their attack will do is switch the URL people are collaborating at then they may just give up on the attack.

I'd say we could post in some existing subforum but part of maintaining a community around a subject that is protracted as one involving a decade long scam and a dozen court cases (each of which has months between each event) ... involves a bunch of lulz and shitposting,  traffic that is basically only interesting to people working on the subject, mocking the latest forgeries, etc.  While the big events in faketoshi land are of general interest to most forum members most of the day to day traffic is only interesting to faketoshi debunkers and people following the ongoing train wreak(s).

If it's not obvious to you why this is important to Bitcoin, here is some background:

As anyone not living under a rock probably knows by now:  The most infamous faktoshi, conman par-excellence Craig Wright, has been creating a rather substantial nuisance of himself by piling lawsuit after lawsuit against Bitcoin community members, journalists, developers, and former developers.  For example, he's sued me and a dozen other bitcoin developers and former devlopers demanding ~6 billion dollars in damages, and has a second lawsuit filed naming us that we haven't even seen yes.  His court case in norway with hodlnaut has been in the news lately.

Over time his necessity has evolved from a simple (although high value) tax rebate scam to an advanced fee fraud (nigerian prince) to what is, hopefully, its final form: an impersonation scam with a target of a >$20 billion dollar payoff:   Their plan is to steal a mountain of early bitcoins by fraudulently claiming to have owned them and lost the keys, then demanding bitcoin developers write and bitcoin users deploy a cryptographic back door to reassign those coins to them.  I say "their" because the real scam here is that likely Wright has convinced wealthy funders that together they're partners in a scheme which is going to rob the world/Satoshi but really Wright knows it won't work and his goal is just to scam the funders.

It's *very* common for cons to take the structure of the conman convincing a mark that they're really going to rob a third party, when in fact the third party is in on it, or doesn't even exist and it's the mark getting robbed.  The story however, helps keep the mark from getting good advice, explains the con's sketchy behavior, and answers varrious microeconomic questions the mark would already have ("Why are you sharing this windfall with me? -- because I need your help to pull off the con.")

Anyone with a reasonable Bitcoin background knows that Bitcoin doesn't really work that way-- if developers (or whomever) were trusted to not steal coins bitcoin could have just skipped the whole ledger thing and had them run servers like paypal.  Unfortunately, even if Wright was only able to convince his true mark that they have just a small -- say 1% -- chance of success then it would make economic sense to spend tens or hundreds of millions on the effort and that's exactly what is happening.

To put it in non-Bitcoin terms:  Mr. Bumblecharm has convinced Duke creepycal that with Bumblecharm's long history of obvious forgeries they'll be able to convince the world that Mr. Bumblecharm is true heir to the royal throne, and should property be awarded control of the empire along with its vast estates and accounts which he'll share with creepycal in exchange for funding the enterprise.  To accomplish this they're harassing, intimidating, and litigating against any visible person that disagrees in public or otherwise stands in their way.  Duke creepycal likely believed the story in the past (in the earlier nigerian prince phase) but likely doesn't believe it now (though it doesn't much matter if he does or doesn't-- he's in it for the payoff).

If this really were about royalty the public would laugh it off the stage, but since it's about something new and technical people's eyes glaze over and their reason goes out the window.  Large parts of the media is complicit because "maybe" makes a better story and a reduced lawsuit risk than "this is an obvious joke as was proved years ago"-- so even as wright get caught over and over again with utterly indisputable forgeries they're able to keep carrying to the public that this his claim is merely 'disputed by some'.  This translates into courts and professional services (like PR agencies, and lawfirms) having at enough plausible deniability that they're willing to participate in the con in exchange for payment.

His highly funded lawsuits have already cost people millions of dollars defending them and if carried to trial are expected to cost ten to tens of millions of dollars more, and there is little to limit him filing more of them.  Stopping him requires casting a light on his actions so clear and stark that no one can ignore the facts -- we need to get to a state where his lawsuits are laughed out of court and where prosecutors feel pressured to take action against an obvious fraud.

Some Bitcoiner's I've encountered say things like "I see why this is personally tragic for the people being targeted, but I don't see why this matters to Bitcoin: He can't get people to run a backdoor and devs can go anon".  But I think both this is anoverly narrow perspective.

It's true that no one can force people to adopt some hardfork like Wright wants-- but it's only because the community speaks out against it that people will know to not run it and avoid being bamboozled into it.  Bitcoin's non-cryptographic security comes from its users defending their own interests. There is no authority charged with protecting Bitcoin: it's in the hands of each and every user and owner of Bitcoins.  And as the say-- 'The price of freedom is eternal vigilance'.  So it's not a proper response to someone pointing out an attack to say "don't bother doing something, bitcoin is strong against attacks" when we're taking about strength that exists specifically because people will do something.

The specific pressure against developers may create a bias toward developers that are more reckless or even ones that have bad motivations (why worry that you're going to get sued by Wright if your real goal was to get your own backdoor in).   Anonymity is an additive tool some may use, but unless your involvement is to toss a patch or a post over a wall and quickly disappear it's basically impossible to stay strongly anonymous against a competent and concerted attacker: every word you say risks leaking things about you.  Satoshi is anonymous, sure, but he left in 2011 before anyone was really paying attention to bitcoin.  Anyone who participates anonymously should be assuming their identity will be exposed eventually that, at best, it's an additional security measure. Anyone who thinks anonymity is a serious fix has not given a lot of thought on what it takes to be strongly anonymous.

While Bitcoin can handle losing any particular developers but developers are a resource bitcoin uses to fight other attacks, and so it's easier for Bitcoin to be wounded or disrupted in the future if competent developers are chased out.  So while wright's attack probably can't kill bitcoin on its own, it's not inconceivable that it could weaken it enough that some future attack does much more harm.  And sure, while kill bitcoin completely is a pretty unrealistic idea-- a bitcoin that was barely used by anyone, outlawed many places, and/or unreliable would be much less valuable and useful to the world.  It might not be "totally dead" but that would still be a sorry outcome.  I worry a lot that an attack of this approach evades Bitcoin's immune response.  I think if a state were to do what Wright is doing there would be a very strong reaction-- but if the attack is disguised as a joke many people go 'meh'.

Wright's attacks are also against individual bitcoin advocates, journalists, and Bitcoin companies-- not just developers.  Even if you ignore the direct harm, they divert tremendous amounts of resources that could otherwise be spent improving bitcoin or hardening it against other attacks.  So I think that although Mr. Wright himself is an obvious joke, the harm he's causing and can cause the ecosystem is a serious concern.

So given that I think this is a subject worth at least a little attention from every serious Bitcoin-- and it's certainly worth making sure people that have picked up the mantle here have a place they can discuss their efforts without being silenced by Wright and his conspirators.

We could obviously setup a separate forum but there is a lot of work that goes into maintaining something like that which is already done by Bitcointalk.

Cheers

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September 22, 2022, 12:29:07 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2), EFS (1)
 #2

I thought your account was comprised when i read the title.

Would people be supportive of creating a sub-forum for investigating/exposing Craig Wright and his BSV scam for the protection of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners?

I don't mind such board/subforum, since it also could tidy "Bitcoin Discussion" board a bit. But the question is, who'll be moderator of this board?

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September 22, 2022, 12:35:49 PM
 #3

Would people be supportive of creating a sub-forum for investigating/exposing Craig Wright and his BSV scam for the protection of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners?
I also do not mind such a board being created, but I am not so sure about calling it a BSV subforum. The focus now is obviously on CSW, but it would not always be, and we cannot create a new board for every troll who takes it extreme.

Something like "Bitcoin protection" or "satoshi vision" sounds good.

But the question is, who'll be moderator of this board?
If theymos is in agreement, who to moderate the board should not be a worry, there are patrollers, staffs and global mods. Beginners and help does not have an active local mod, but it is still going fine [enough].
If new nominations are needed, o_e_l_e_ o or LoyceV are good options.

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September 22, 2022, 12:48:45 PM
 #4

I thought your account was comprised when i read the title.
Lol, I had intended to edit the title before posting.  But ... now I can just pretend it was a really brilliant piece of click bait.


Quote
But the question is, who'll be moderator of this board?

There are global mods and whatnot.   I think on reddit on r/bsv we've needed relatively little moderation except for some BSV promoters that have become too abusive --- one possibility would be to draw moderators from the participants there.  In particular, there are people who have been moderating r/bsv and doing a good job (I think in general rbsv is moderated in a way that is generally compatible with the generally lax hand approach of BCT moderation). I have no idea what the level of interest would be there: It may not be very high unless use of the subforum really takes off.
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September 22, 2022, 01:22:36 PM
 #5

Would people be supportive of creating a sub-forum for investigating/exposing Craig Wright and his BSV scam for the protection of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners?
Sure why not, but don't we already have few topics in Scam Accusations section that are dedicated to BSV scam?
If we are going to create special sub-forum for CSW scam, than we should think about creating few other sub-forums people demanded several times.

Most of the people doing this work have been coordinating on twitter and reddit,  but BSV scammers have been flooding the platforms with false reports and have successfully knocked out more than a couple account thanks to idiotic and/or artificially-idiotic (AI) report processing. There is also a real risk that the scammers simply buy off the platforms (e.g. in the case of reddit) or their staff (e.g. in the case of twitter) to achieve their end.
They have few cult supporters even in bitcointalk forum and I am sure they will flood whatever topics in forum if CSW cult leader command them.
Creating new forum accounts is easy and they can always reactivate bunch of old accounts for attacks.

We could obviously setup a separate forum but there is a lot of work that goes into maintaining something like that which is already done by Bitcointalk.
Making new forum for this is a waste of time in my opinion.

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September 22, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
 #6

They have few cult supporters even in bitcointalk forum and I am sure they will flood whatever topics in forum if CSW cult leader command them.
Creating new forum accounts is easy and they can always reactivate bunch of old accounts for attacks.

Exactly. I fear that this kind of subforum has the potential of having the opposite effect of what it is intended for.
And since trolling is hardly punished and posting lies / inaccuracies is not against the forum rules... we may end up helping them instead of showing the actual truth.

Am I too pessimistic?

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September 22, 2022, 01:45:11 PM
Last edit: September 22, 2022, 01:58:01 PM by Charles-Tim
 #7

Would people be supportive of creating a sub-forum for investigating/exposing Craig Wright and his BSV scam for the protection of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners?
As long as it would be for people to know that Craig Wright is not Satoshi. It is a good idea. Hope the subforum would be given a name that will easily depict its purpose?

If we are going to create special sub-forum for CSW scam, than we should think about creating few other sub-forums people demanded several times.
People requested for boards. I think sub-forum can grow and later be organized into boards. But boards can only have child-boards. Boards that I remember that were demanded for are lightning network, NFT (obviously NFTs are altcoins and no need for that) and local board like Nigeria local board. But those can just be in another discussion because this is pertaining to what could help bitcoin community, and there is a need for it.

Edit:
Exactly. I fear that this kind of subforum has the potential of having the opposite effect of what it is intended for.
And since trolling is hardly punished and posting lies / inaccuracies is not against the forum rules... we may end up helping them instead of showing the actual truth.
I also think about this. But what good evidences are Faketoshi and Faketoshi supporters would have on this forum as a proof to legitimately back their fake opinions? It is still trolling.

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September 22, 2022, 01:57:15 PM
 #8

We can run a trial thread on Investigations and Reputation/Scam Accusations to see how strong the community reactions is to that, and if there is sufficient interest then a subforum can be created, though I believe it's *highly* unlikely that Theymos would create a subforum for such a temporary purpose.


[In case anyone is wondering: No, I will not volunteer to create such a thread - I have my hands full doing battle with environmental trolls. But I will definitely participate in one.]

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September 22, 2022, 02:20:59 PM
 #9

I support the suggestion but I'm not sure if a sub-forum is the right way to do it.
no idea how to do it better :/



It won't happen if people don't give up. It's the race of who will be tired first. And the answer is none but readers with a brain will make their own opinion.
It's a bit like politics, there is always someone not happy and ready to fight, and there is always someone to debate
In a democratic system, everyone can participate and debate, it's the job of others to show them wrong, and it's up to the population to decide

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September 22, 2022, 02:35:31 PM
 #10

I think it would be better just to eliminate all PRO BSV people / threads and just leave the ones ridiculing how bad it is. Don't even give them the opportunity to have a voice here.
Make it perfectly clear that it's a scam / con and although the forum does not moderate scams / cons this one time it's so bad and the perpetrators of it are so scummy that they are not allowed here.

This way we are showing one voice as to how bad they are, and we are not wasting time trying to shout over the trolls / shills.

There are some things that I disagree with and don't like that I can just ignore, once you get to this stage there is no reason to even let them exist here. At least in my view.

-Dave

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September 22, 2022, 02:50:21 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), Foxpup (3), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #11

Having been following the recent trial closely, I also noticed you being banned from Reddit and flagged it up my post here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5413844.msg60972559#msg60972559

I'll reiterate what I said there: Reddit is a trash platform.

I am generally in support of all efforts to show CSW up for the fraudster he is. Two thoughts come to mind immediately when considering a sub-board. Firstly, it should be as a sub-board under Scams or Reputation, not under Bitcoin Discussion or any of the bitcoin centric boards. In my mind, doing the latter lends credibility to BSV. Secondly, moderation. This forum in general has a long history of not banning trolls or deleting even provably wrong information. I am not in favor of DaveF's suggestion above of just silencing the other side, as in doing so pushes us more towards the type of mob-rule echo chamber that is part of the reason Reddit is so bad. But on the other hand, without a stricter moderation policy than that which is applied in the rest of the forum, the board would I'm sure rapidly become overrun with BSV shills and trolls. It would require a carefully considered approach.

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September 22, 2022, 02:50:34 PM
 #12

I also think about this. But what good evidences are Faketoshi and Faketoshi supporters would have on this forum as a proof to legitimately back their fake opinions? It is still trolling.

Do they actually want proof? Did they ever care about valid proofs? They can spam with their "views". And trolling needs to be strong in order to get the account punished for that.

It won't happen if people don't give up. It's the race of who will be tired first. And the answer is none but readers with a brain will make their own opinion.

Look at 1x whatever spammers. The community have given up on them.
It can easily happen with bsv shills too.

In a democratic system, everyone can participate and debate, it's the job of others to show them wrong, and it's up to the population to decide

Indeed. Just internet is different than a proper debate. On internet one can easily create 1000 accounts to support his point and the honest participant will be beaten, his arguments will be lost within a sea of crap and any honest participant who want to see a discussion will leave in disgust.

I think it would be better just to eliminate all PRO BSV people / threads and just leave the ones ridiculing how bad it is. Don't even give them the opportunity to have a voice here.
Make it perfectly clear that it's a scam / con and although the forum does not moderate scams / cons this one time it's so bad and the perpetrators of it are so scummy that they are not allowed here.

This way we are showing one voice as to how bad they are, and we are not wasting time trying to shout over the trolls / shills.

There are some things that I disagree with and don't like that I can just ignore, once you get to this stage there is no reason to even let them exist here. At least in my view.

-Dave

Heh, nice point of view Cheesy but I doubt that this is going to happen. It would be meaning double standards related to freedom of speech and I don't think that this forum will go on that path.



Maybe, although more difficult to implement, a forum would be the solution; a forum where trolling is punished much more harshly and the things one tells may need to come with solid proof.
Maybe this could be done as a test ground for the new forum software.

However, I tend to come lately with ideas people may think I have time and willingness to implement (which I don't), so please think twice before thinking it's a valid idea, because maybe it's not. at least for the effort.

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September 22, 2022, 02:56:25 PM
 #13

Secondly, moderation. This forum in general has a long history of not banning trolls or deleting even provably wrong information. I am not in favor of DaveF's suggestion above of just silencing the other side, as in doing so pushes us more towards the type of mob-rule echo chamber that is part of the reason Reddit is so bad. But on the other hand, without a stricter moderation policy than that which is applied in the rest of the forum, the board would I'm sure rapidly become overrun with BSV shills and trolls. It would require a carefully considered approach.

If you destroy the mothership, you kill all the Chitauri (look that up if you want).

So if some events happen which have the consequence of the media telling the world that he is provably not Satoshi Nakamoto, but a clown (not even a fraudster), then the BSV morass will wither away.

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September 22, 2022, 03:53:33 PM
 #14

1000% a great idea. I’ve got a few questions about BSV I’ve wanted to ask you specifically, being one of the most knowledgeable cryptographers on the planet.

(we are lucky to have you here, I hope you know how many of us really appreciate your participation)

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September 22, 2022, 06:04:21 PM
Merited by LoyceV (6), Welsh (4), Pmalek (2), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #15

I don't think an entire sub board would be necessary right now. Like others have said, this info would be best confined to their own relevant thread(s) and sub boards are only created if and once there's demand so that's the place you should start. Still, I don't think we need an entire board and could even be counter productive as I'm sure Craig would find a way to turn it into a win or a point of attack. He usually does.

I thought your account was comprised when i read the title.

Yeah, maybe rename it to BSV/Faketoshi scam sub or something.

I also think about this. But what good evidences are Faketoshi and Faketoshi supporters would have on this forum as a proof to legitimately back their fake opinions? It is still trolling.

Do they actually want proof? Did they ever care about valid proofs? They can spam with their "views". And trolling needs to be strong in order to get the account punished for that.



I tend to look at BSVers as just brainwashed sheep who have fallen for an enigmatic cult leader. It doesn't matter what evidence you show them they will explain it away no matter how ridiculous the reasoning is. You could make a very rational and reasonable argument to a religious person as to why there is no god or that there's no spaceship coming to ascend a cult member off to heaven but people won't listen once they've drunk the coolaid. I'm not sure half of the BSV trolls believe Craig's bullshit anyway but have such a vested financial interest in BSV that they don't care and will promote it because they see this as getting in at ground zero and want to see BSV flip Bitcoin and take them to the moon with it.

As much as I despise Craig - and I hate to say it - I almost admire his tenacity with his long-con as he has quite an ingenious knack for excusing everything away with relative ease regardless of whether we can see through the obvious lies. Most people would have buckled under the enormous weight of having to keep up the ruse of piling bullshit on top of several layers of bullshit, but he's like a Terminator: he just keeps going no matter how many times he gets knocked down. I think prison is the only thing that's going to stop him at this point. Was there any update on why the ATO haven't actually tried to arrest him given the pretty obvious tax fraud? I'm sure he's likely to have committed tax fraud in the UK too with all the losses and hacks he's reported to the police so it wouldn't surprise me if he tried to write that off on his taxes.

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September 22, 2022, 06:32:42 PM
 #16

Would people be supportive of creating a sub-forum for investigating/exposing Craig Wright and his BSV scam for the protection of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners?
Oh this guy is still around? He must be wealthy to have continued to promote the faketoshi claim since then. Must be riding on the support of the government and gold miners to devalue bitcoin and cause a stalemate in the bitcoin communities. I thought the drama was over when he failed to transfer 1.2 million bitcoin from his Satoshi wallet.

A sub-board will not be a problem, but expect more anti-bitcoin and trolls to spam the hell out of it.

Over time his necessity has evolved from a simple (although high value) tax rebate scam to an advanced fee fraud (nigerian prince) to what is,  the community speaks out against it that people will know to not run it and avoid being bamboozled into it.  

Was it necessary? Why are you linking his fraudulent activities to the Nigerian community? You know that would irritate anyone from that country.



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September 22, 2022, 07:43:04 PM
Merited by LoyceV (6), hilariousetc (2), Pmalek (2), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #17

Hello Greg. With due respect to your contribution to the Bitcoin community, I'd like to strongly oppose to this suggestion of yours. Here is why...

1. A dedicated sub-forum will lead to undue attention to this shitcoin, i.e. BSV.

2. Possibility of a Streisand effect can not be ruled out either.

3. A narrative like Bitcoiners are Afraid may also be floated.


I would rather suggest the following...

1. Regularly post and discuss attacks by BSV proponents on Bitcoiners on Bitcoin Discussion.

2. Expose scam by BSV community leaders at Scam Accusations.

3. Mention technical inferiority and glitches of BSV at Unmoderated BSV Thread.

4. If theymos agrees, more factoids with links to relevant threads may be shown in forum ad space.


Fundamentally, creating awareness of What is Bitcoin is probably more important than telling people Why BSV is SCAM. Otherwise, if we need a sub to defend BSV attacks, we'd probably need a hell lot of subs for defense & awareness in future. It'll open a can of worm, that we may comfortably ignore.

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September 22, 2022, 08:02:12 PM
 #18

Something absolutely needs to be done.  If not a subforum, I'd settle for a sticky at the top of every single forum and subforum containing the text:

Craig Wright is a proven liar, charlatan and identity thief.  SV is a worthless scamcoin.  Anyone who supports either is scum, bereft of human decency.

Followed by all the documented evidence of Wright's forgeries and lies.

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September 22, 2022, 09:45:45 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4)
 #19

Would people be supportive of creating a sub-forum for investigating/exposing Craig Wright and his BSV scam for the protection of Bitcoin and Bitcoiners?
<>

His highly funded lawsuits have already cost people millions of dollars defending them and if carried to trial are expected to cost ten to tens of millions of dollars more, and there is little to limit him filing more of them.  Stopping him requires casting a light on his actions so clear and stark that no one can ignore the facts -- we need to get to a state where his lawsuits are laughed out of court and where prosecutors feel pressured to take action against an obvious fraud.

<>


But the question is, who'll be moderator of this board?
I would generally be against this kind of sub for a reason (inadvertently) highlighted by ETFbitcoin.

Although the administrators and moderators are allowed to (and to) have their own personal viewpoints on various topics of discussion, the forum as an institution is neutral on (nearly) all topics and is a very strong advocate for free speech. The forum does not moderate for accuracy of posts, nor should it.

The intention of this kind of subforum is clearly for the forum to take a particular stance on a topic of discussion. It would be very difficult to moderate this kind of sub because I do not doubt there would be a lot of inaccurate information, likely posted by people claiming to be on both sides of the BSV/CSW debate. This inaccurate information would reduce the usefulness of anyone trying to use said subform as a means to quickly (and economically) get any case filed against them thrown out of court.

I don't think crowdsourcing this type of information is probably not the best way to accomplish your stated goal. I think it would probably be better for a group of well-funded individuals (presumably who have been subjected to the kind of harassment described in the OP) to hire an attorney to privately contact those who have lawsuits filed against them with information about how to best defend against these kinds of cases. I have noticed that many of the cases have been filed outside of the US, but in the US, courts can only consider information that has been presented to the court, and the court will not consider publicly available information if it has not otherwise been submitted to the court (also, generally the plaintiff or defendant has standing to submit evidence in most situations).

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September 22, 2022, 11:05:50 PM
Merited by Foxpup (12), LoyceV (8), Casino Critique (4), dkbit98 (3), ETFbitcoin (1)
 #20

On the BSV supporters,  I'd suggest going through some threads on r/BSV and see how it works out there.

I think in general a small amount of BSV supporters coming into a space with experienced BSV debunkers does little but harm the scam:  They show up and have their claims tested against facts, get pressured to justify their positions, and -- in short -- get ripped apart.  When they're not too obnoxious they're a lot of fun to debunk, and it keeps the conversation going during the long lulls.   Though because of this, it seldom happens even when it's permitted.

The situation is different though when active BSV debunkers don't outnumber them.

One of the really good contributors to rBSV is even a former BSV investor (though he never was one of the clowns out spreading pro-Wright lies-- AFAIK not a single one of those has ever been flipped, they just disappear from the internet if they get convinced that it's not real).

The biggest problem they've created on reddit is that interacting with them gives them more opportunities to file false reports and get accounts suspended.

r/bsv does eventually ban them but only when they're outright disruptive and harassing people or doing stuff that might get the subreddit in trouble, not because they're promoting the scam.  The assumption is that >95% of the readers in rbsv are well enough informed that they're already immune to the scam (or soon will be) so the only risk to worry about is that they become annoying instead of fun for the honest participants.

Something absolutely needs to be done.  If not a subforum, I'd settle for a sticky at the top of every single forum and subforum containing the text:

Craig Wright is a proven liar, charlatan and identity thief.  SV is a worthless scamcoin.  Anyone who supports either is scum, bereft of human decency.

Followed by all the documented evidence of Wright's forgeries and lies.

Back in 2017 I circulated a message to people to see if I could get a lot of long time bitcoiners to sign onto a message saying:

Quote
There is no credible evidence to support the claim that Craig S Wright is
Satoshi or was otherwise involved in the creation of Bitcoin.  At every
opportunity Wright has provably fabricated what 'evidence' he has presented,
in an apparent effort to deceive less technically sophisticated persons.
We do not believe that Wright and his claims even merit further discussion.

Enough people replied along the lines of 'Wright is just a troll, that no one will ever believe him, all we'd be doing is giving him free attention, we should just ignore him', that I felt the effort wouldn't be successful and dropped it.  (To be clear, the only person to respond saying that Wright was *legit* was Roger Ver... he since got a clue...)

Unfortunately, now that he's sued me for billions of dollars I fear that if I were to spearhead such a message that it would get explained away as an action of a defendant trying to escape a much deserved lawsuit or something.   But I still think such a message would be incredibly powerful, it would just be better driven by someone who he isn't suing.  Though it's really hard to overcome Gavin's continued unwillingness to retract his endorsement-- I think doing so requires enough of everyone else to sign on to make it clear that he's alone (or close to it).

I don't think though that people showing up on BCT are the ones that need to hear this-- if you've made it to bitcointalk you're probably much more clueful than the average joe.

As far as BitCoinDream's comments go-- the "ignore it and hope it goes away" approach is what the Bitcoin community adopted previously.  It's been a disaster.  Go plug in Satoshi or Craig Wright into google news.  He already controls the media narrative.  His representatives appear to be taking as many (if  not more!) meetings with heads of state to speak about "Bitcoin",  his story with a minor amount of tempering is usually what's being told by the press.  Adding to it that there are bitcoiners fighting back wouldn't help them-- they're already on the way to a false consensus that no one seriously opposes them.

Apply some art of war to your thinking: I don't care if the opposition thinks that I'm scared or weak or whatever. I care that they aren't successful.   BCT is already a pretty obscure corner of even the bitcoin universe much less the entire internet (as unfortunate as that is)-- if the profile here were 100x more visible than Wright's you'd have more of a point about giving them attention they wouldn't otherwise get.  The bitcoin community *is* strong, it just needs to be mobilized.

All that said, your alternative suggestion is mostly what I'd been thinking before making the post--  though a big problem with that kind of diffuse response is that it's not good for bringing more participants into Bitcointalk who are primarily interest in dealing with the con because they threads will be lost in a sea of stuff they aren't interested in.  I've found here that when some wright apologist or BSV promoter wades into a thread on BCT it's not uncommon that the arguments against them end up close to 1:1 instead of many against one, with the other thread participants just irritated that you're helping the troll take things offtopic by debunking them.  I can tell you first hand that fighting misinformation 1:1 against a paid shill or a dedicated cultist feels rather sisyphean, while many against one feels like a nice game of golf.   When you're 1:1 they keep diverting the substantive discussion to making it all about you personally.

Over time his necessity has evolved from a simple (although high value) tax rebate scam to an advanced fee fraud (nigerian prince) to what is,  
Was it necessary? Why are you linking his fraudulent activities to the Nigerian community? You know that would irritate anyone from that country.
My apologies.  I have the utmost respect for the people of Nigeria-- but few people know what advanced fee fraud is, and the particular brand of spanish-prisoner-con (apologies to spaniards) is known to essentially all english speakers as a nigerian price scam.  To this day I receive frequent nigerian prince scam messages though they're finally starting to be outnumbered by tech support and amazon refund scams originating out of India.  Every one of us lives with negative things done by some few scammers in our countries.  I can only promise you that I know that the actions of a relatively small population of scammers in Nigeria doesn't really reflect negatively on the rest, and I'm confident that most people feel the same way.

Wright's scamming does has an African connection-- but it's by way of a conspirator in Kenya, not Nigeria.

I don't think an entire sub board would be necessary right now. Like others have said, this info would be best confined to their own relevant thread(s) and sub boards are only created if and once there's demand so that's the place you should start. Still, I don't think we need an entire board and could even be counter productive as I'm sure Craig would find a way to turn it into a win or a point of attack. He usually does.
...
Yeah, maybe rename it to BSV/Faketoshi scam sub or something.
LOL I agree on the name.  Really I'd even leave BSV out-- without Wright it's just another irrelevant altcoin-- except the two are hopelessly intertwined and often people who need to hear about Wright are looking for info on BSV, since BSV is one of the ways they monetize the scam.  Increasingly so as they've now agreed in court that BSV will now be handing over "his" coins.

Quote
I tend to look at BSVers as just brainwashed sheep who have fallen for an enigmatic cult leader. It doesn't matter what evidence you show them they will explain it away no matter how ridiculous the reasoning is. You could make a very rational and reasonable argument to a religious person as to why there is no god or that there's no spaceship coming to ascend a cult member off to heaven but people won't listen once they've drunk the coolaid. I'm not sure half of the BSV trolls believe Craig's bullshit anyway but have such a vested financial interest in BSV that they don't care and will promote it because they see this as getting in at ground zero and want to see BSV flip Bitcoin and take them to the moon with it.

The outspoken people are just outright paid liars (like any of their spokespeople or 'media personalities' such as wuckert)-- the rest you hear from are just what you say-- brainwashed and hoping to recover from their massive losses:  They bought BSV at $400 and since then bitcoin has gone up 6x in price while BSV has dropped to $50.   They'd rob their own mothers at this point (and if you listen to Wuckert's mother-- at least one of them has done pretty much that!).


Quote
As much as I despise Craig - and I hate to say it - I almost admire his tenacity with his long-con as he has quite an ingenious knack for excusing everything away with relative ease regardless of whether we can see through the obvious lies. Most people would have buckled under the enormous weight of having to keep up the ruse of piling bullshit on top of several layers of bullshit, but he's like a Terminator: he just keeps going no matter how many times he gets knocked down.
It's obviously hitting him hard, if you look at pictures of him now vs a few years ago especially when he's not sussed up for the camera, he looks like he's in his 70s now.

You're absolutely right though-- people see how absurdly incompetent about the stuff he claims to be good at-- personally I love the bullshit etymologies he comes up with on the spot even more than his bullshit technical explanations-- and conclude that he's an idiot.  He's not an idiot, he's a con man, and an astoundingly successful one.

Quote
I think prison is the only thing that's going to stop him at this point. Was there any update on why the ATO haven't actually tried to arrest him given the pretty obvious tax fraud? I'm sure he's likely to have committed tax fraud in the UK too with all the losses and hacks he's reported to the police so it wouldn't surprise me if he tried to write that off on his taxes.
Last we hear their criminal investigation was still ongoing.  It sounds like they're similar to US federal prosecutions-- they take their sweet time.  There was recently someone convinced of some similar rebate fraud in AU, and their fraud took place a decade before they were charged.  Wright is coming up on a similar timeframe.   Everyone of of these dumb court cases also ends up with him making claims and exposing information that should make things easier for the criminal prosecution.

So I'm hopeful there, but at the same time-- the ATO is going to chase their own interests and so we can't count on them to protect the public at large.

I agree that the only thing which will actually stop him is criminal charges... but for our purposes we don't really need him to stop:  he just has to be discredited to the point where he can be ignored and where he isn't suckering in newbies (esp governments) at a rate much greater than other bitcoin-attacking scamcoiners.  A lot of that is taking the nearly universal view in the bitcoin community that he's a joke and making it clear to the broader public, while playing the tactical defense to mitigate his damage before we get to that point.

I don't think crowdsourcing this type of information is probably not the best way to accomplish your stated goal. I think it would probably be better for a group of well-funded individuals (presumably who have been subjected to the kind of harassment described in the OP) to hire an attorney to privately contact those who have lawsuits filed against them with information about how to best defend against these kinds of cases. I have noticed that many of the cases have been filed outside of the US, but in the US, courts can only consider information that has been presented to the court, and the court will not consider publicly available information if it has not otherwise been submitted to the court (also, generally the plaintiff or defendant has standing to submit evidence in most situations).

Nearly all of the quite powerful discrediting used against him in court so far has come from the community.  Truth has the property that it's reproducible by others. So when community members find information which disproves Mr. Wright, we're able to point the lawyers at it for validation and reproduction.  This is essential because replacing the public's efforts in isolating the conflicts and contradictions with paid experts at hundreds of dollars per hour would be utterly ruinously expensive.   Your mental model of "well-funded individuals (presumably who have been subjected to the kind of harassment described in the OP)" is just off base.  They do not exist.   Wright and his conspirators are legitimately well funded: They expect billions in return.  All his opponents can do is hope to mitigate losses (unless they flip and accept his bribes,  I've heard that he's offered as much as $10 million dollars to people for supporting his efforts), even where they technically have the means to pay for the litigation it's with a heavy heart because it comes at a great personal cost with no hope of a benefit from it other than Bitcoin's continued health.

The fight in court is also a public information war more than you realize.  When some professional-- a lawyer, a press person, a ghost writer, etc--   is contacted by Wright to take Wright on as a client and effectively become a paid conspirator in his scheme they have to decide if they're going to be able to plausibly deny knowing it was fraud to protect their reputation later after it collapses (and potentially avoid criminal charges themselves).  The more limited Wright is in his selection the less successful he'll be.  What the rules say and what the practice on the ground is are two distinct things: even judges in the US absolutely do look at what's said in public, even informally, and are going to take a second read of things which might end up making them look like idiots in the future.  Some of the arguments -- like general impossibility of Wright's efforts to force a coin stealing backdoor onto the network-- are themselves directly a question about the public temperature on the subject of his demands and several times already mass media articles have show up as evidence in court cases as evidence of the public's perception of the subject.

But also the fight in court is also only one element of dealing with this fraud-- it's the most obnoxious because its the one where "just ignore it and let him scam people" is not a realistic option (at least for the targets), but his attack does go beyond court.   For example, Wright's conspirators have been meeting with heads of state in many parts of the world pitching their agenda (which involves outlawing bitcoin and adopting their Bitcoin knockoff).  The only way they're getting these meetings is that whatever overworked staffer is vetting the schedule does a quick search and doesn't find information that exposes what a big reputation risk an association with this conman and his con would be.
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