[ANN] luty.io - Fiat to Bitcoin On-Ramp - No KYC <1000 EUR - Low Fees

[luty.io]

luty.io is a fiat to Bitcoin on-ramp with low fees, frictionless purchasing experience and no KYC for transactions below 1000EUR*


Why Use luty.io ?

• High KYC Thresholds – Buy upto 1000EUR per day without KYC*
• Very Low Fees – 3.5%
• We Use Stripe As A Merchant Account Provider – PCI compliant - we never store your card details.
• Withdraw To “Hosted” and “Non-Hosted” Wallets
• Strong Customer Service - Telegram chat agents available 24/7
• No-Sign Up
• All customer login records, name and addresses are destroyed after 120 days. Although card details may be held for longer by Stripe
• Bitcoin Only – Forever!

*see below for more details on this policy


How Can You Offer Fiat to BTC On-Ramps With No KYC?
For transactions above 1000EUR we will ask for the full gambit of KYC documentation. However, for transactions below 1000EUR, our default position is that KYC is unnecessary if your transaction has not been flagged. Current merchant accounts and third-party apps are so successful in identifying carding fraud that KYC and AML procedures are no longer needed to stop fraudulent transactions. On a practical basis,  KYC/AML checks are more or less an extra layer of paternalistic gatekeeping.  Plus, the refund liability has shifted from the merchant to the bank with the advent of 3D Secure Version 1.

However, we are currently building out an AI application that will additionally screen all transactions for fraud. With a particular emphasis on cases of “friendly fraud”, which the merchant account fraud engines can struggle to identify. This is still in development; as such, all transactions will be manually reviewed during ( Berlin CEST ) office hours. I know that this can sometimes be a pain, but we are working 24/7 to build this AI application. Once completed, all transactions will be instantly settled with minimal human interaction. We are keen on keeping our merchant account and reducing chargeback fraud instances to near zero. As a non-KYC on-ramp for amounts below 1000EUR, our service is highly attractive to carders wishing to cash out stolen EUR BIN’s. We know that we will be a target for carders and as such need to progress slowly, keeping our merchant account relationships intact.
These points mentioned above only apply to card issuers and merchants in the EU and UK. During our Beta trial we will only be processing card payments from EU card issuers, from customers based in the EU and only in EUR currency.



Minimum EUR Amount?
If you want to test our service you can use smaller amounts. The minimum transactional amount is 1 EUR

When Are You Implementing Lightning?
Very soon - after we finish our internal AI fraud app

How Is The Bitcoin Price Calculated?
The Bitcoin rate is calculated dynamically using publicly available market data, primarily from the crypto compare ( www.cryptocompare.com ) pricing API - it should be a very tight spread.

But I love stringent KYC policies and making funny/cutie videos during the onboarding process
Cool – then our service is not for you.



We have been involved in Bitcoin for so long and have developed a very thick skin so please hit us up with any questions, concerns, or criticisms.  We will try to provide as much information as possible. Our team works within the card processing industry, and many have been around Bitcoin since 2013. We are not planning to become overnight millionaires from luty.io but rather try to give something back and offer a service to Bitcoiners sick of KYC/AML

www.luty.io



Luty.io is in BETA





[/list]

[awex]

hey there!

What license are you operating under? Didn't notice it on your website.

[Shibboleth]

Interesting, i'll do some small transactions, if you don't mind to test your systems and payout amount

F~ck KYC

[luty.io]

Interesting, i'll do some small transactions, if you don't mind to test your systems and payout amount

F~ck KYC

Awesome  - thanks for the transaction. If you have any questions or suggestions please let us know here or via our telegram chat group

[awex]

Interesting, i'll do some small transactions, if you don't mind to test your systems and payout amount

F~ck KYC

Awesome  - thanks for the transaction. If you have any questions or suggestions please let us know here or via our telegram chat group

What about license question?

[SFR10]

We will try to provide as much information as possible.

Do you mind explaining the reason behind including "Trustpilot and Stripe" as your partner ^{[e.g. Trustpilot partners and Stripe partners]}?
^{- Using someone else's services, doesn't equate to having a partnership with them!}

Our team works within the card processing industry, and many have been around Bitcoin since 2013.

It'd be nice to "see" who's behind luty!

What about license question?

Based on the following highlighted part, I don't think they have any:

• Anyone Can Operate A Site Like Luty.io
  We have demonstrated that anyone can operate a fiat to bitcoin on-ramp; they only need a website and a merchant account. No permission was asked nor granted in the production of luty.io .

[LoyceV]

our default position is that KYC is unnecessary if your transaction has not been flagged.

Your site asks for the the card holder's name and address. Unless you use a stolen card, that's pretty much the same as KYC.

Luty.io is in BETA

The exchange rate doesn't update (on Tor Browser) when I go back, change it, and click Continue:

[luty.io]

Do you mind explaining the reason behind including "Trustpilot and Stripe" as your partner [e.g. Trustpilot partners and Stripe partners]?
- Using someone else's services, doesn't equate to having a partnership with them!

Yes, this is a great point and something that has been changed. Obviously we are not strictly partners of these organisations rather we use their services. This small piece of content was overlooked and should not have been added to the site. It has been changed to "We Use"

What about license question?

To be clear we do not, nor will ever, have a "Licence" to operate a wholly ethical and moral service based on Natural Law. We don't seek out approval from centralized and bureaucratic organizations who are the total antithesis of Bitcoin and what it stands for. I'd love to go on a massive AnCap rant, but I think you get the point.

Your site asks for the the card holder's name and address. Unless you use a stolen card, that's pretty much the same as KYC.

This is an interesting point, obviously there is a conflict in that we would rather not require any card holder information, other than card number and expiry date. However, we are also very aware that our site is very attractive to carders looking to cash-out stolen BIN's. We have to record the card holders name and address in order to fight any cases of fraud, through chargeback appeals and internal fraud measures.

To address your second point directly - I don't think recording the card holders name and address is in any way in the same league as typical KYC practices, which includes taking copies of passports, proof of address, and selfie pictures/videos. This information is a honeypot for malevolent centralised organisations and outright criminals. For exmaple, with this information I can very trivially setup bank accounts and request other financial services in your name.


Hope that all makes sense  - and we welcome more questions, please !

[luty.io]

Hi guys

Just by way of an update as we have had quite a few new customers

If you are using a VPN/SOCKS proxy/ or Tor, your transaction will be blocked by out fraud controls. You must use a real residential IP and ideally one that is near the address where the card is registered to.


Trying to make payments on a French card using an an American IP from a well known VPN provider, will not work.

[Pmalek]

If you are using a VPN/SOCKS proxy/ or Tor, your transaction will be blocked by out fraud controls. You must use a real residential IP and ideally one that is near the address where the card is registered to.

The whole anti KYC talk goes pretty much down the toilet. You aren't asking for identity documents from your customers, but you do need their names and card details and real IP addresses.

What could be some reasons your fraud department could flag a transaction?
What happens if I deposit coins from a mixer?
What happens if they get deposited from a crypto casino?
What happens if the person who sold me the coins got them in an illegal way and now you are flagging my transaction?

Do you consider some bitcoins to be "dirty" or "tainted", or are they all the same?

[awex]

If you are using a VPN/SOCKS proxy/ or Tor, your transaction will be blocked by out fraud controls. You must use a real residential IP and ideally one that is near the address where the card is registered to.

The whole anti KYC talk goes pretty much down the toilet. You aren't asking for identity documents from your customers, but you do need their names and card details and real IP addresses.

Agree, what's the reason?

[luty.io]

The whole anti KYC talk goes pretty much down the toilet. You aren't asking for identity documents from your customers, but you do need their names and card details and real IP addresses.

This is an interesting line of thought, which I would love to explore and ask more questions, specifically, why do you think giving name and address details, which will be securely destroyed from our servers is the same as handing over passport, proof of address, selfies etc?

The utility value of a name and address compared to full KYC documents is night and day. For example full KYC documents can sell from 5-20 USD on the darknet and carding forums. Names and addresses maybe for 0.50 USD at the most - obviously there is some value as they are "crypto" Fullz

Surely the fact that in 99% of interactions, we do not ask for full KYC documents in order to purchase BTC, is a attractive proposition? Or are we missing something ?  - serious question.

Agree, what's the reason?

The reason why we ask for names and addresses are:

1. In order to purchase anything, and I mean anything ( bitcoin or a toothbrush ) using Visa or Mastercard you need the names and addresses of the card holder. This is not our internal policy, nor Stripes, but rather the card schemes - Visa and Mastercard. This is how the card payment systems work - if no name or addresses are recorded it is impossible for the transaction to be settlement through these card schemes. Thus impossible for payments to be made and merchants to receive funds.

2. To combat card fraud  - addresses are checked by the merchant against the address and name linked to the card number ( BIN's )


Its great engaging with the community and please ask more questions/criticisms.


 

[dkbit98]

If you are using a VPN/SOCKS proxy/ or Tor, your transaction will be blocked by out fraud controls. You must use a real residential IP and ideally one that is near the address where the card is registered to.

So what's the point of saying you are not asking for KYC if you demand real residential IP to be used?
If that information is connected with details and address from card we can't speak about privacy any more.
I understand if you are trying to prevent abuse of your Referal Scheme, but you can just cancel that for suspicious IP's instead of doing total ban.

Trying to make payments on a French card using an an American IP from a well known VPN provider, will not work

You think it's impossible that someone from France is traveling with his card, and he uses your website from some random city in America?

[LoyceV]

why do you think giving name and address details, which will be securely destroyed from our servers

As a user, I can't check if you really delete the data. Anyone with a new website can claim to destroy personal data, but the only way to be sure you don't have it is by not sharing it.

is the same as handing over passport, proof of address, selfies etc?

That's just one step further. Maybe we have a different idea of what KYC means: to me, it's being forced to share any real information about myself. Stuff like my name and address. I assume many users who don't like KYC share this definition.
More official definitions go a lot further: it's not just identification, it's building a full profile on the customer including their income, source of funds and more. It goes a lot further than sharing a passport and selfie.

The utility value of a name and address compared to full KYC documents is night and day. For example full KYC documents can sell from 5-20 USD on the darknet and carding forums. Names and addresses maybe for 0.50 USD at the most - obviously there is some value as they are "crypto" Fullz

You're talking about names and addresses combined with creditcard details. That's enough to make large purchases online.

Surely the fact that in 99% of interactions, we do not ask for full KYC documents in order to purchase BTC, is a attractive proposition? Or are we missing something ?  - serious question.

To me, this isn't attractive. But I'd never use my creditcard to buy Bitcoin, or anything Bitcoin related, and I'd never pay very low high 3.5% transaction fees.
Then again, I'm not the average user. I've seen people looking to buy Bitcoin using their creditcard. It seems very risky though: even a burglar could do it, straight from the address who's window he broke.

[Pmalek]

This is an interesting line of thought, which I would love to explore and ask more questions, specifically, why do you think giving name and address details, which will be securely destroyed from our servers is the same as handing over passport, proof of address, selfies etc?

There are various levels of KYC if you want to call them that. Even Binance in the past when they had that no KYC rule allowed people to freely withdraw up to 2 BTC a day. If you wanted more, you needed to go through a basic KYC verification. If you wanted no limits at all, you had to provide them with much more information.

About the data being destroyed from your servers. That's a matter of trust. I don't know if you do that. You say you do, but I can't verify that myself. I have to trust that you will do that, and that you won't leak, sell, or have my data stolen by/to one of those darknet forums you mentioned below or some other 3rd party. Your platform wouldn't be the first or the last that got hacked or misused customer data.     

The utility value of a name and address compared to full KYC documents is night and day. For example full KYC documents can sell from 5-20 USD on the darknet and carding forums. Names and addresses maybe for 0.50 USD at the most - obviously there is some value as they are "crypto" Fullz

I didn't know those things were that cheap. My question is, why does someone who wants to store and handle personal details of crypto traders know how much they can be sold for? Having certain knowledge isn't equal to being untrustworthy, but money makes people do nasty stuff. Or they could consider doing it in times of need.

[luty.io]

You're talking about names and addresses combined with credit card details. That's enough to make large purchases online.

This would not be the case in any EU country due to the fact that purchases above circa. 30.00EUR will trigger 3D Secure where the card holder will be asked to input 2FA data

Also in terms of data, card holder name and addresses would only be secured on our database  - card details such as card number, expiry, and CVC would be stored on Stripes database. We have no access to this information whatsoever

As a user, I can't check if you really delete the data. Anyone with a new website can claim to destroy personal data, but the only way to be sure you don't have it is by not sharing it.

This is a good point, we are clearly aware that our database is a honeypot to hackers. We don't want to hold the data for a second more than necessary. We are exploring some sort of mechanism where the data can be "provably destroyed" or an independent third party to verify the destruction of the data. 

[Pmalek]

@luty.io
You never answered the questions I asked in my previous reply concerning the flagging of transactions as well as what kind of coins are welcome/not welcome on your site. Let me quote them so it's easier for you to see what I am talking about.

What could be some reasons your fraud department could flag a transaction?
What happens if I deposit coins from a mixer?
What happens if they get deposited from a crypto casino?
What happens if the person who sold me the coins got them in an illegal way and now you are flagging my transaction?

Do you consider some bitcoins to be "dirty" or "tainted", or are they all the same?

[luty.io]

What could be some reasons your fraud department could flag a transaction?
What happens if I deposit coins from a mixer?
What happens if they get deposited from a crypto casino?
What happens if the person who sold me the coins got them in an illegal way and now you are flagging my transaction?

Do you consider some bitcoins to be "dirty" or "tainted", or are they all the same?

Sorry I missed your previous question; To be 110% clear, fungibility is a core property of the Bitcoin network and any attempt to degrade or obscure this fundamental property, should be fought against

We consider 1 Bitcoin to be 1 Bitcoin  - no matter the origin.

In relation to luty.io, we only offer a fiat to BTC on-ramp and do not have functionality to offer a BTC to fiat off ramp at this moment


We are happy to send the BTC, which has been bought on Luty.io to any BTC wallet