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Author Topic: About rule 32 - When will it be serious violation?  (Read 350 times)
_BlackStar (OP)
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October 14, 2022, 07:58:48 PM
Merited by Lucius (1), Mbitr (1), indah rezqi (1)
 #1

Recently I have reported every user who violated forum rule no 32 to the moderators. There are a lot of users doing it, and all of them are handled good by the moderators.

Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ
Quote
32. Posting multiple posts in a row (excluding bumps and reserved posts by the thread starter) is not allowed.

But I was surprised by this one user:

Username: Yurkov
Registration date: February 25, 2013, 12:06:52 AM

The above user violates rule number 32 quite often. Even I have reported it few post but to this day he still repeats it. I've also reported that user's profile to  moderator for review, but as a registered user in 2013 then I don't think it makes sense to be warned too often.

What surprises me is that he continues to do so almost daily for spam posts or burst posts on gambling board. So when will violations like this become so serious?


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October 14, 2022, 08:15:17 PM
 #2

Mate, just go to marketplace I do this constantly every day - gets very tedious !!
The posts get deleted, but then the process repeats itself !!
Post - report- delete- post - report - delete …..ad infinitum !!!
As you say , if members continue to do this over weeks/months/years … is banning an option ? Or should we just let these members carry on !
I’m not sure what the solution is , but as I say it sure is tedious
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October 14, 2022, 08:16:55 PM
Merited by hosseinimr93 (2), vapourminer (1), ABCbits (1), hugeblack (1), DdmrDdmr (1), Charles-Tim (1), _BlackStar (1)
 #3

Unfortunately, it probably depends on who handles them at the time. If you get the same moderator handling it every single time, they'll probably ping the username in their mind, and be able to act accordingly in the future. However, if you've got multiple moderators handling the reports then things can become a little inconsistent as as moderators we can only act upon what we see, and can verify. Therefore, if one global handled 25%, another global with 25%, and a dedicated moderator 50%, a global isn't going to think too much of it. I know this seems to be in the Gambling section, and therefore the dedicated moderators are global, but there's three of them, so it could equally apply. The above is just an example. In other sections where there's multiple non global dedicated moderators things can start to get really murky depending on who handles it at the time.

Plus, there's the flip side where moderators handle a lot of reports, and pretty much identical reports when it comes to bumping. So, its very easily to forget when you could potentially be handling hundreds of reports every day. Obviously, with the recent decline in reports it's probably not as drastic figures, but you get my point.

I've been utilizing a user script by TryNinja recently. I had a half baked version that I made prior to it, but their version is fully fledged, and pretty much covers all basis'. So, I've started to log certain problem users, for further review down the line if there's other reports made against them. Again, this doesn't really eliminate the issue of multiple moderators handling the reports, but it does eliminate the second issue of forgetting.

Technically, moderators can somewhat verify if another moderator has taken action on the user previously, but I'm not sure if other moderators do this routinely. Especially when it's longer than the data available shows.

That would be my guess of what's happening here. It's not the fact that this wouldn't be taken further, and by taken further I don't mean bans, but could potentially be warnings via personal messages before bans, it's the fact that there's missing parts in the process. It'd be nice if we had a reporting system that highlighted how many times a user had been reported in the past x amount of days, and potentially link to a archived version, but that means storing deleted posts on the live database longer than we probably do right now.
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October 14, 2022, 08:34:59 PM
 #4

Some personal reporting facts -
Member - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3502889
Reported 7 x in 14 days
Member - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3504006
Reported 10x in 14 days
Member - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3120410
Reported 12 x in 14 days

Now in the big picture it’s all irrelevant, but …. ? Surely these members would warrant an warning ?
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October 14, 2022, 08:48:41 PM
 #5

Some personal reporting facts -
Member - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3502889
Reported 7 x in 14 days
Member - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3504006
Reported 10x in 14 days
Member - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3120410
Reported 12 x in 14 days

Now in the big picture it’s all irrelevant, but …. ? Surely these members would warrant an warning ?

DustMedia007 has been banned, not sure if its for the same reasons that you reported them for, or if it was in direct response of one of your reports, but they're banned currently. As for Scotland, that does ring a bell, and I believe in the past I've acted upon certain reports against that user. Obviously, being a jr member I don't see those reports any more, which might be another reason why certain usernames don't face consequences after repeat offending constantly, since patrollres may have been acted upon their reports, before they became a jr member. Obviously, that's looking at the larger picture.

The 12 reports in 14 days, could potentially just be different moderators or the moderators monitoring the situation currently, and don't want to act too hastily.
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October 14, 2022, 09:04:11 PM
 #6

Hi @Welsh , these were just a few examples ,so no panic .  I do appreciate the rapid response and I know you and the other mods are working constantly, but I’m just wondering as well as the OP if there was some better system ? There will never be the perfect solution, but perhaps there  should be a feedback thread or something so any reporters know which direction we can be pointed in AND vice versa for the mods - jeez, as I’m typing this I know that could be a mega thread (of tinternet hell) but perhaps some sort of system Huh
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October 14, 2022, 10:49:05 PM
 #7

Unfortunately, it probably depends on who handles them at the time. If you get the same moderator handling it every single time, they'll probably ping the username in their mind, and be able to act accordingly in the future. However, if you've got multiple moderators handling the reports then things can become a little inconsistent as as moderators we can only act upon what we see, and can verify. Therefore, if one global handled 25%, another global with 25%, and a dedicated moderator 50%, a global isn't going to think too much of it. I know this seems to be in the Gambling section, and therefore the dedicated moderators are global, but there's three of them, so it could equally apply. The above is just an example. In other sections where there's multiple non global dedicated moderators things can start to get really murky depending on who handles it at the time.

Plus, there's the flip side where moderators handle a lot of reports, and pretty much identical reports when it comes to bumping. So, its very easily to forget when you could potentially be handling hundreds of reports every day. Obviously, with the recent decline in reports it's probably not as drastic figures, but you get my point.

I've been utilizing a user script by TryNinja recently. I had a half baked version that I made prior to it, but their version is fully fledged, and pretty much covers all basis'. So, I've started to log certain problem users, for further review down the line if there's other reports made against them. Again, this doesn't really eliminate the issue of multiple moderators handling the reports, but it does eliminate the second issue of forgetting.

Technically, moderators can somewhat verify if another moderator has taken action on the user previously, but I'm not sure if other moderators do this routinely. Especially when it's longer than the data available shows.

That would be my guess of what's happening here. It's not the fact that this wouldn't be taken further, and by taken further I don't mean bans, but could potentially be warnings via personal messages before bans, it's the fact that there's missing parts in the process. It'd be nice if we had a reporting system that highlighted how many times a user had been reported in the past x amount of days, and potentially link to a archived version, but that means storing deleted posts on the live database longer than we probably do right now.

Why not make a spreadsheet and enter offenders in the sheet? It can be alphabetized and all mods can edit. This way users can be punished after x amount of offenses. Eventually permabanned for repeat offenses.

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October 15, 2022, 05:57:31 AM
Merited by Razmirraz (2), _BlackStar (1)
 #8

There are currently two mod (mprep & Mr. Big) handling your report against the Yurkov post pattern. I can see it from the mod edit history of these two posts:
1. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408355.msg61120220#msg61120220
2. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408355.msg61108123#msg61108123

In addition to reporting users via the report to moderator feature, maybe you can also report them to the moderator who handles your report. I think they will be willing to take it more seriously as your previous report is valid. This is just a suggestion, I think you may have a better approach.

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October 15, 2022, 01:41:48 PM
 #9

I think the violation of that rule comes from simple ignorance of the rules, whether it's a classic bump post that's quite common in some boards, or it's new members who don't know how to post using multi-quote. What I have noticed is that some people deliberately do not delete old bumps so that their threads look like there is some kind of discussion going on there, which in my opinion is obvious abuse and should be punished in the long term with at least a temporary ban.

I would suggest that this rule be supplemented with the following "more than xx bump posts deleted by mods = permanent ban". Of course, the question arises as to who will count the deleted posts, but that's why we have BPIP and it's easy to look at the statistics of deleted posts.



_BlackStar, I looked at the post history of that member and he is a classic shitposter, so I suggest you waste less time on reporting multiple posts in a row, and focus more on signature spam reports.

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October 15, 2022, 01:56:32 PM
 #10

Why not make a spreadsheet and enter offenders in the sheet? It can be alphabetized and all mods can edit. This way users can be punished after x amount of offenses. Eventually permabanned for repeat offenses.
I think TryNinja's Bitcointalk User Note script would be the best solution in that case though notes are only accessible by the user themselves, not available for everyone. With this script, they can easily keep notes of previous moderation logs for the above-mentioned issues. Though there's a good chance that not many users here would be interested to use this kind of script as they may not be using a compatible browser for the script.

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October 15, 2022, 03:17:21 PM
 #11

The above user violates rule number 32 quite often. Even I have reported it few post but to this day he still repeats it. I've also reported that user's profile to  moderator for review, but as a registered user in 2013 then I don't think it makes sense to be warned too often.

What surprises me is that he continues to do so almost daily for spam posts or burst posts on gambling board. So when will violations like this become so serious?
Since he keeps doing it even after his posts got deleted, have you ever tried to warn him/explain him that what he is doing is wrong and might end up getting temporary ban because of that? Some people are so ignorant about the rules and won't even know that they are doing something wrong until you send them pm or warn them directly in the thread. I did that couple of times (not specifically about violating rule nr 32) and in majorify of cases it works so who knows, maybe it would work in this case as well.

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October 15, 2022, 03:43:25 PM
 #12

The above user violates rule number 32 quite often. Even I have reported it few post but to this day he still repeats it. I've also reported that user's profile to  moderator for review, but as a registered user in 2013 then I don't think it makes sense to be warned too often.

What surprises me is that he continues to do so almost daily for spam posts or burst posts on gambling board. So when will violations like this become so serious?
Since he keeps doing it even after his posts got deleted, have you ever tried to warn him/explain him that what he is doing is wrong and might end up getting temporary ban because of that? Some people are so ignorant about the rules and won't even know that they are doing something wrong until you send them pm or warn them directly in the thread. I did that couple of times (not specifically about violating rule nr 32) and in majorify of cases it works so who knows, maybe it would work in this case as well.

Someone needs to message him (most probably a moderator) and tell him about the mistake which he is doing. If he does not sop after being warned, then you may temporarily ban him from posting.

Also, regarding this rule no 32, I see many times mods themselves merge the consecutive boards. Right now I don't think violating this rule can get your account banned. Usually, people do it unknowingly and mods themselves merge those posts.

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October 15, 2022, 03:52:47 PM
 #13

Right now I don't think violating this rule can get your account banned.
You won't get perma banned, but try to to it day after day for a longer period of time and you might get a temporary ban. At least I think that's how things work around when someone repeatedly break forum rules.


Usually, people do it unknowingly and mods themselves merge those posts.
Yeah I know that many are not aware of that rule but ignorance is not a valid excuse.

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October 15, 2022, 03:58:56 PM
Merited by Lucius (1)
 #14

As you say , if members continue to do this over weeks/months/years … is banning an option ? Or should we just let these members carry on !
I’m not sure what the solution is , but as I say it sure is tedious
Actually I don't spend a lot of time on the board looking for rule breakers, spammers or anything. I'm there sometimes to talk about something, but that user has indirectly drawn my attention to his quirks. Of course, reporting so many posts and rule violators can sometimes be very tedious especially if the violations are repeated by the same user.



Unfortunately, it probably depends on who handles them at the time. If you get the same moderator handling it every single time, they'll probably ping the username in their mind, and be able to act accordingly in the future. However, if you've got multiple moderators handling the reports then things can become a little inconsistent as as moderators we can only act upon what we see, and can verify.
So far I have two different moderators handling reports, so maybe I should try a bit to contact one of them [as Imamusma suggested] and show the user profile for further review whether they want to warn that user via PM or a temporary ban. But thanks, I understand you.  Wink



_BlackStar, I looked at the post history of that member and he is a classic shitposter, so I suggest you waste less time on reporting multiple posts in a row, and focus more on signature spam reports.
That's true, but so far I've given up on gambling board regarding reports. Several times I have said, many of my reports are not handled on the gambling board even if I am absolutely sure about my accuracy. That's the reason why I don't report posts there even if many people admit that they are spam.



Since he keeps doing it even after his posts got deleted, have you ever tried to warn him/explain him that what he is doing is wrong and might end up getting temporary ban because of that?
I'm not sure I'll do it, but maybe the moderators need to.

Some people are so ignorant about the rules and won't even know that they are doing something wrong until you send them pm or warn them directly in the thread. I did that couple of times (not specifically about violating rule nr 32) and in majorify of cases it works so who knows, maybe it would work in this case as well.
Are you sure someone who has been on the forum since 2013 could easily ignore the forum rules? But the tag on that user's profile should be a reminder that he should change his habits if he really cares about forum rules.

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October 15, 2022, 06:29:09 PM
 #15

Mate, just go to marketplace I do this constantly every day - gets very tedious !!
The posts get deleted, but then the process repeats itself !!
Post - report- delete- post - report - delete …..ad infinitum !!!
I imagine the mods are well aware of that, and it might make sense to report one or two posts by the same member violating the rule with a note telling the mod to look into their post history--the same goes for any other kind of reporting when you're dealing with someone with multiple, repeated violations.  It's efficient, and I think Hilariousandco once suggested it to me back when I was doing a lot of reporting.

And the gambling sections....*whew*.  When I'm doing post history reviews I often find myself looking at posts in threads with tens of thousands of pages.  When you've got threads like that, shitposters and violators of rule 32 know they can basically get away with whatever they want to. 

On the other hand, I do see valid discussions happening between members (or what looks like it, anyway), so if there was any good reason to be posting multiple times--but not consecutively--it'd be that. 

OP, if I were you I'd give up on spam megathreads as far as reporting goes.  I know I did, because there are just too many rule breakers and only so much time in the day to devote to a problem that's been around for years and shows no signs of improving.  But that's just me.

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October 15, 2022, 06:30:47 PM
 #16

So when will violations like this become so serious?
I don't think it's a very serious offense, but rules are made to be obeyed. Any violator is very likely to get consequences including a temporary ban or permanent ban, but it depends on what wrong they did.

Besides that, I also don't know what is the most appropriate solution for you to do other than reporting it to the moderators. That user might get a warning from a moderator, but somehow I feel like things about spamming can be dealt with with temporary or permanent ban decision. In this case, the moderator handling the report may have to find out and notify the violator of the error, otherwise strict action can be taken.

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October 15, 2022, 09:03:02 PM
 #17

So when will violations like this become so serious?
It is in the hands of the moderators, and personally, I like to trust that they have the forums best interests at heart and know what they are doing.
It is our duty to report a case and it is their duty to judge and pass a verdict, if they return a "good" verdict to a case we expected something else, well, we all should always remember that we all have different experiences and mindsets, we should not always expect the moderators to see situations or cases exactly the same way we see them, and we should not expect them also to react just the same way we would have if we were the ones in their sit, we all reason differently and the moderators are just as humans as we all are.

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October 15, 2022, 11:18:52 PM
 #18

I've been utilizing a user script by TryNinja recently. I had a half baked version that I made prior to it, but their version is fully fledged, and pretty much covers all basis'. So, I've started to log certain problem users, for further review down the line if there's other reports made against them. Again, this doesn't really eliminate the issue of multiple moderators handling the reports, but it does eliminate the second issue of forgetting.

When a moderator takes action that results in a report being marked as "good", they could also classify the rule violation as one of several of the most common reasons that real users have action taken against them (along with an other category). This would benefit the administration in two ways:
1 - it would make it much easier to determine the validity of a ban request for a particular user
2 - it might uncover communications issues that certain (groups of) people don't understand certain rules
2a - the impact of the rule violations can be more easily studied to understand the impact of said rules, which may lead to the tweaking of rules to further improve the user experience of the forum.


To answer the OP's question, the mods are not in the business of banning users. To ban a forum member means to remove them from the community, and that is not what the forum administration wants to do on a regular basis. The mods are in the business of keeping the forum a place where various topics can be easily discussed, in part by enforcing the various rules of the forum. A forum member is banned only as a last resort, and a ban is typically seen as a negative outcome. Obviously, in some cases, there are situations in which banning a forum member is necessary.
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October 16, 2022, 05:46:58 AM
 #19

So when will violations like this become so serious?
when a post got deleted, a member will receive an email and the reason why his post got deleted. if the member is human, he will obey and not do it again, if not, possible he wasn't human. So, because these rules are made for humans, there's nothing we and mod can't do.

Mate, just go to marketplace I do this constantly every day - gets very tedious !!
The posts get deleted, but then the process repeats itself !!
Post - report- delete- post - report - delete …..ad infinitum !!!

Look good to growing up the reported stat.

to be honest, I have 9500 reported with good which 80% I got from the market board (almost post breaking rule no. 21).
I can report 100 - 300 reports a day in past. if more intended, it's not possible to get more than 5,000 reports with good/ month. (* this is a secret how to grow up the reported stat in one sitting)

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October 16, 2022, 05:58:03 AM
 #20

So when will violations like this become so serious?
when a post got deleted, a member will receive an email and the reason why his post got deleted. if the member is human, he will obey and not do it again, if not, possible he wasn't human. So, because these rules are made for humans, there's nothing we and mod can't do.
I haven’t had any posts deleted in a long time. But unless something has changed recently, the member will only receive a generic message saying that their post was removed by a moderator. It won’t give a reason. The single generic message says that they should not make posts that break the rules, but that is really not helpful
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