Actions against bitcoin miners would have greater consequences

[StanCrypt]

According to a Bloomberg story, the European Union plans to introduce an energy efficiency label for Bitcoin and other proof-of-work cryptocurrencies in an effort to reduce energy use. The draft plan, which is expected to be made public later today, urges the international political scene to exert pressure against the energy use of bitcoin miners. This action against bitcoin miners appears to be a precursor as the EU gets ready for a winter with fewer gas reserves from Russia due to the ongoing conflict.

The energy usage argument has recently made an effort to pick up pace as Greenpeace allocated a new $1 million budget to criticising Bitcoin and the White House started drafting its own laws to handle the bitcoin mining sector.

With all these in play and Bitcoin miners already scaling down production, Being in the mining business right now would really be a bad idea. This plan by the European Union is bound to negatively affect not just the bitcoin market but the entire crypto market which has largely assisted in financing the purchase of resources and the provision of financial services which had in turn greatly hastens the global economy's economic,  and social development especially in developing nations.


Anyways what do people think about this. Share your wisdom please.

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/legal/eu-takes-aim-at-bitcoin-energy-consumption-with-new-law

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[NeuroticFish]

With all these in play and Bitcoin miners already scaling down production, Being in the mining business right now would really be a bad idea.

One week ago we had ATH for Bitcoin hashrate. This doesn't look to me as "bitcoin miners already scaling down production".

Then, they only start working on a proposal, that needs voted, that needs to get into countries' legislation (with many changes). Then - in some countries there will be elections and those may not set laws that make their voters angry.  So even if by chance some European miners will get into troubles (after many months or even years), well, the world is much bigger than Europe.


I know, Americans also work on something similar, but there I see people do (much) more in order to wake up their politicians.

[avikz]

If EU starts taking actions against the bitcoin miners and forcefully shuts down their mining operations, then there will be consequences for sure. But I don't see any long term effect. Miners who have invested millions of dollars in setting up their mining operations, they will definitely look out for alternate places to move their operations to. Similarly what happened during Chinese crackdown.

So even if there's an impact, that will be temporary.

[spectre71]

When China shut down mining what did it do, in a nutshell not much at all. So miners will move to where it's favored.

Eu just wants to the money, period.

[hatshepsut93]

EU is not a major mining region, so a hypothetical mining ban there would be of little consequence for Bitcoin network. Bitcoin very gracefully took China's mining ban, so you shouldn't be too scared about such things. I would be more worried if EU tried to ban trading and other uses of Bitcoin - that would actually be very bad, because EU is among the largest economies in the world, if that happens, a lot trading volume and adoption potential will be lost. But I doubt EU would take such a dramatic step - they are not China.

[Fortify]

According to a Bloomberg story, the European Union plans to introduce an energy efficiency label for Bitcoin and other proof-of-work cryptocurrencies in an effort to reduce energy use. The draft plan, which is expected to be made public later today, urges the international political scene to exert pressure against the energy use of bitcoin miners. This action against bitcoin miners appears to be a precursor as the EU gets ready for a winter with fewer gas reserves from Russia due to the ongoing conflict.

The energy usage argument has recently made an effort to pick up pace as Greenpeace allocated a new $1 million budget to criticising Bitcoin and the White House started drafting its own laws to handle the bitcoin mining sector.

With all these in play and Bitcoin miners already scaling down production, Being in the mining business right now would really be a bad idea. This plan by the European Union is bound to negatively affect not just the bitcoin market but the entire crypto market which has largely assisted in financing the purchase of resources and the provision of financial services which had in turn greatly hastens the global economy's economic,  and social development especially in developing nations.

Anyways what do people think about this. Share your wisdom please.

This was inevitable with the recent energy crisis going on in Europe that was caused by Russia's unnecessary war against Ukraine. Even before that there was discussion by some politicians as to the actual usefulness of mining operations and it is a relatively easy target that would not affect the average member of the public. Not only that but it can be used as a next target for sanctions if they can even put together shreds of evidence that it is being used by Russian's to evade financial restrictions. Altogether it seems like a sensible plan that should actually be welcomed by crypto users because it gives a bit more legitimacy to them in law and could help spur innovation.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

When China shut down mining what did it do, in a nutshell not much at all. So miners will move to where it's favored.

Right, but what happens when what China did becomes a global thing?  It's not like it couldn't happen, even if it happened in spaced-out increments.

Maybe I don't read crypto news as much as I probably should, but I haven't heard much about solar mining farms much lately.  Wasn't there a big one operating, or on its way to be operating, in Texas?  In any case, mining does use a lot of electricity but I've seen comparisons with other things like, say, the entire banking system and bitcoin mining is dwarfed by that.

One week ago we had ATH for Bitcoin hashrate. This doesn't look to me as "bitcoin miners already scaling down production".

I wonder if that's because of all the GPU miners who suddenly have nothing to mine profitably.  Is eBay flooded with used GPUs, and it is difficult to buy ASIC miners right now?  Just thinking out loud, but that seems like the logical thing to do for the bigger GPU miners, because it doesn't seem like anything's going to be profitable for quite a while.

[NeuroticFish]

One week ago we had ATH for Bitcoin hashrate. This doesn't look to me as "bitcoin miners already scaling down production".

I wonder if that's because of all the GPU miners who suddenly have nothing to mine profitably.  Is eBay flooded with used GPUs, and it is difficult to buy ASIC miners right now?  Just thinking out loud, but that seems like the logical thing to do for the bigger GPU miners, because it doesn't seem like anything's going to be profitable for quite a while.

Hasn't GPU mining for Bitcoin end because it no longer made sense in the competition with ASICs?
I mean that I thought that a GPU farm would just burn electricity with 0 chance to mine any bitcoin...
Unless there's something I'm missing, it's probably not the GPU farms doing this.

But what are the new advancements in ASIC manufacturing I don't know...

[StanCrypt]

Maybe I don't read crypto news as much as I probably should, but I haven't heard much about solar mining farms much lately.  Wasn't there a big one operating, or on its way to be operating, in Texas?  In any case, mining does use a lot of electricity but I've seen comparisons with other things like, say, the entire banking system and bitcoin mining is dwarfed by that.

One week ago we had ATH for Bitcoin hashrate. This doesn't look to me as "bitcoin miners already scaling down production".

I wonder if that's because of all the GPU miners who suddenly have nothing to mine profitably.  Is eBay flooded with used GPUs, and it is difficult to buy ASIC miners right now?  Just thinking out loud, but that seems like the logical thing to do for the bigger GPU miners, because it doesn't seem like anything's going to be profitable for quite a while.

Located in the "Steel City" of Whyalla, South Australia, there is a new crypto mining facility will use solar energy to power its operations. The 5-megawatt facility should be producing bitcoin at the Lumos Digital Mining business, a method that is frequently criticized for being energy-intensive.
The new crypto farm may be able to produce roughly 100 BTC annually, according to a representative of Lumos Digital Mining, depending on the available electricity.

https://news.bitcoin.com/solar-powered-crypto-farm-in-australia-to-prove-bitcoin-mining-can-be-green/

And yes, in an effort to make some money back, some miners sold off their racks of graphics cards at steep discounts before jumping ship. Wccftech discovered that some former miners in China and South Asia are even holding livestreamed auctions to get rid of their GPU "stock" in large quantities.
For instance, the RTX 3060 Ti, which miners in China are allegedly selling for between $250 and 350 dollars (about $250 and £350). Especially in the US, even a quick glance at eBay reveals numerous items at about comparable costs.

[South Park]

If EU starts taking actions against the bitcoin miners and forcefully shuts down their mining operations, then there will be consequences for sure. But I don't see any long term effect. Miners who have invested millions of dollars in setting up their mining operations, they will definitely look out for alternate places to move their operations to. Similarly what happened during Chinese crackdown.

So even if there's an impact, that will be temporary.

The great thing about bureaucracy is that it is incredibly inefficient, so by the time a law like this is passed enough time would have passed for miners to realize what is happening and then move to another more friendly country which wants their business and the jobs they bring, if Europe as a whole does not want them then there is always a place which would, so I am not worried about this as miners will find a way and a place in which they can keep operating.

[Hydrogen]

If the EU bans crypto mining. Bitcon's hash rate might decline temporarily, making mining more profitable. Which would incentivize greater investment funding in mining. Its a circle of cause and effect which crackdowns on mining have not yet been able to break. I think china believed their crypto mining bans would succeed in killing bitcoin. Instead it only succeeded in driving mining operations outside of china's borders. It is possible EU bans on mining would be the same. The european crypto mining sector is smaller than china's and could proportionally have a smaller impact.

United states attempts to ban crypto mining might be settled in the supreme court. States like texas have thriving crypto mining sectors powered by renewable wind farms. It will be harder to justify climate change bans on crypto mining in states like texas where the mining sector is almost exclusively powered by wind energy.

Then we have wild cards like el salvador who might be able to grow their crypto mining industry to leverage lost hash rate by european miners. El salvador has announced plans to fund geothermal plants to power their crypto mining sector. Geothermal power being cheaper than solar or wind energy could give el salvador miners an advantage if their plans materialize.

[Lucius]

Anyways what do people think about this. Share your wisdom please.

There is no wisdom here, the matter is more than clear if you look at how many countries within the EU have hashrates higher than 1% - and accordingly what such a law would mean for Bitcoin globally.  If the data is correct, only Germany has more than that (about 3%), and all other countries together may have as much.

Incompetent EU bureaucrats are looking for a scapegoat for the energy crisis that they created themselves, and anyone who believes that such a ban would help bring about something positive is really living in the illusion that Bitcoin mining is something that is a threat to anyone or anything.

In addition, there are even some geniuses who admit that such a ban does not make much sense, but there are still many more who believe that the ban on Bitcoin mining in the EU means the end of Bitcoin. The ban in itself doesn't make much sense, but all other laws and regulations are going in the direction of the EU becoming less and less friendly to Bitcoin. Some laughed when I wrote in the past that the EU is not so far from China in this respect, and in the years to come we will be able to see how EU democracy works.

[Kakmakr]

What happened when China "banned" Bitcoin mining? ..... Answer : The miners moved to other countries and/sold their ASICs to miners in other countries where there are no restrictions.

Everyone were discussing the "Fall of Bitcoin" when there were indications that China would ban Bitcoin mining... and it never happened. There will always be choices for these miners and we know the Lightning Network are taking a lot of the transactions off-chain and it's using a fraction of the hashing power to process these transactions. 

[so98nn]

If they have that much problem then they should recommend every household to have one mining rig in each room of their house and run them 24*7 so that it can produce heat and make their houses hot during the season of winter. 

I am not sure why they are always looking after bitcoin mining and not about car or industrial emissions?

I think they should revisit their decisions and think with fresh minds. Stop criticising bitcoin.

[DrBeer]

There is some logic in this. A simple question - a crypt that is being mined consumes a HUGE amount of electricity (and, therefore, indirectly, other resources), while real useful work is minuscule. This applies to POWx technology, POSx technology has a more positive picture - only nodes that do not consume gigawatts of energy work. In today's our real world, electrical energy, unfortunately, is not unlimited. And perhaps it should be treated more carefully. I suppose that the next step may be the appearance of separate tariffs for large mining farms, which, of course, are more expensive than an ordinary consumer.

[jostorres]

If the EU bans crypto mining. Bitcon's hash rate might decline temporarily, making mining more profitable. Which would incentivize greater investment funding in mining. Its a circle of cause and effect which crackdowns on mining have not yet been able to break. I think china believed their crypto mining bans would succeed in killing bitcoin. Instead it only succeeded in driving mining operations outside of china's borders. It is possible EU bans on mining would be the same. The european crypto mining sector is smaller than china's and could proportionally have a smaller impact.

Are we sure it would increase the investments into mining? I mean if EU bans it, then we are going to see those machines moved to somewhere else, and yes there will be a temporary decrease in hashrate and difficulty, but those machines will restart working again in another place where it is not illegal.

Smaller one person farms may close down, but they will also sell their machines to people in other nations that can mine it, I doubt any of the asic miners would be just destroyed or shelved, they are quite expensive, so everyone will look for a way to either use them or sell them. Hence, the hashrate will go back to what it was eventually.