[2022-10-19] Europe to ban crypto mining this winter

[LeGaulois]

As you know, as far as we as Europeans are concerned, we are in the middle of an energy crisis, and winter has not even started yet.
Between rising gas, electricity, wood, and other prices, coupled with less electricity production than we need, gas shortage...
Not even sure about having heat at home for the whole winter... or for a very very high price

The European Commission has published a paper on energy policy for the Member States.
And guess what. Crypto mining is on its roadmap among the many electricity restrictions to come.

The document is not exclusively about cryptos. It's about "the plan on digitalising the energy system". But notice point #3 "Does the Action Plan tackle cryptocurrencies."

the Commission strongly requests to lower the electricity consumption of crypto players,... up to stop crypto mining... In another word, shut down your ASICS immediately. (they also want to stop the fiscal measures benefitting miners but that's another matter)

Given the current energy crisis and the heightened risks for the coming winter, the Commission urges Member States to implement targeted and ambitious measures to lower the electricity consumption of crypto-asset actors, in line with the proposed Council Regulation on an emergency intervention to address high energy prices. In case, there is a need for load shedding in the electricity systems, the Member States must also be ready to stop crypto-assets mining. In the longer-term perspective, it is also crucial to put an end to tax breaks and other fiscal measures benefitting crypto-miners currently in force in certain Member States.

On the other hand, lighting up the streets in the middle of the night when no one is around is not a problem

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[bbc.reporter]

This is quite certain to become a reality everywhere including those countries where miners go for cheap electrcity. I have argued about a European ban on mining before and the reaction towards me was not very good as usual hehe. I am also quite certain that much of those people would also say that they expected this news development and it did not need to be said hehehehe.

[bittraffic]

In addition, the Commission will also cooperate internationally and build on the technical expertise of standardisation bodies to develop an energy-efficiency label for blockchains.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_22_6229

What do they mean by standardization bodies, could this be another agency to tackle regulation?
No time to waste and seems a plan to have no energy so they can ban mining and put in place the regulation and digitalize the energy system.
If there is a great way to benefit from mining, I think it's in winter months so it can heat up a room and at the same time make BTC out of it.

This is quite certain to become a reality everywhere including those countries where miners go for cheap electrcity. I have argued about a European ban on mining before and the reaction towards me was not very good as usual hehe. I am also quite certain that much of those people would also say that they expected this news development and it did not need to be said hehehehe.

Yes. Can't say renewable energy will be cheap because if it's the only source, it will not be cheap. It must be mandatory also for people who have turbines and solar panels to join the grid. Fight climax change all the way!

[bbc.reporter]

@bittraffic. What some of the more venturous miners will certainly do is mine illegally using stolen electricity hehe. I agree that this is a crime, however, I would argue that for those miners who are prepared to do this is good for bitcoin and the decentralization of bitcoin.

I speculate that it might have started in China already after their ban on cryptomining.

[SFR10]

the Commission strongly requests to lower the electricity consumption of crypto players,... up to stop crypto mining... In another word, shut down your ASICS immediately.
~Snipped~

in line with the proposed Council Regulation on an emergency intervention to address high energy prices. In case, there is a need for load shedding in the electricity systems, the Member States must also be ready to stop crypto-assets mining.

Judging by how they used load shedding in the sentence, I believe it's just a temporary precaution against the situation in question and not something that'd completely halt mining operations, so perhaps it's not as bad as it looks ^{[having said that, there'll be collateral damages for sure]}.

What do they mean by standardization bodies, could this be another agency to tackle regulation?

Here you go

[Lucius]

On the other hand, lighting up the streets in the middle of the night when no one is around is not a problem

I don't know how it is in other EU countries, but I know that in my country some cities introduce such reductions in principle that every other light fixture is turned off, which again led to some complaining that the streets have become too dark. It's hard to please people, because they will always find a reason to complain - like some people in my neighborhood who never turn off the lights, and then complain that they have high electricity bills.

If there is a great way to benefit from mining, I think it's in winter months so it can heat up a room and at the same time make BTC out of it.

Are there any mining rigs that are quiet or relatively quiet? I live in the belief that BTC mining is very noisy, so it is not suitable to be located in the premises where we live. Perhaps the solution is a sound-insulated room from which warm air would then be brought to the rooms we want to heat. A few years ago someone invented something similar in Russia, I remember we discussed it on the forum.

[bbc.reporter]

In addition, the Commission will also cooperate internationally and build on the technical expertise of standardisation bodies to develop an energy-efficiency label for blockchains.

I have some long-term concern about this label, there's possiblty it'll hinder PoW cryptocurrency to remain listed on exchange or can be used as donation option.

Agreed. I have bookmarked your post as a reference on where I have heard this speculation first hehehe. In any case, creating a department where they can standardise an industry is giving them the power to control a whole industry. They will certainly make it sure that bitcoin will not pass their energy efficiency label.

This will be dangerous for users because the proof of work cryptcoins that might pass will be having the risk of 51% attacks. I will be with the maximalists for this argument hehe.

[theskillzdatklls]

Government created problems, government created solutions.

If the free market could just do it's thing for energy, it would all get sorted. If the free market could determine who is willing to pay what for electricity, it would be allocated most efficiently this way.

Such an insane concept in today's world.

[cr1776]

Good luck banning it for many people, but with the projected cost of power, that alone may solve the issue.  This is, however, the camel's nose under the tent.

Regarding this:

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And yet it still doesn't match the format in the sticky - brackets are not included:

POST FORMAT: YYYY-MM-DD SITE - HEADLINE

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246823.0

[bbc.reporter]

Government created problems, government created solutions.

If the free market could just do it's thing for energy, it would all get sorted. If the free market could determine who is willing to pay what for electricity, it would be allocated most efficiently this way.

Such an insane concept in today's world.

Agreed. In America, the problem caused by their government is they limited the drilling of oil and production of fossil fuel based sources of fuel. If the government was serious about solving this problem they should lift the limit and allow their oil producers to drill more. There are some articles that mentioned that the oil reserves of America is decreasing and more reduction might force them to ration fuel.

@cr1776. They can ban but they cannot enforce the ban. Miners can steal electricity and mine illegally. This will be very good for the decentralization and security of bitcoin.

[Lucius]

They can ban but they cannot enforce the ban. Miners can steal electricity and mine illegally. This will be very good for the decentralization and security of bitcoin.

In the long term, nothing illegal can be good for Bitcoin, and this includes electricity theft, which sooner or later will be discovered, at least in countries that can detect such things very quickly and effectively. The security of Bitcoin will not be threatened if the EU passes such a law, but the bigger problem will be that it will send a message to some other countries that may be thinking of doing the same.

[LeGaulois]

@bbc.reporter

Stealing electricity is when you use the energy of someone else, or do not pay your. But using your electricity while you're not allowed is something else. I'm not sure if it could be considered stealing.

If we consider a miner as an individual, yes sure he could continue to mine bitcoin at home and stay unnoticed but if a government really wants to stop mining, it could be quite easy to do so.
For example, there are plenty of people who have been caught growing cannabis in their homes.
And it's easy to find out. If you have two people in your household and you consume as much as a household of six people, then you are doing something wrong at home.
And it's easier nowadays for countries (like mine) where we now have smart electricity meters (even for the water)

If we consider a miner a company, it's even easier. Since the company is supposed to be closed (no activity so you close the company). A bit like during the lockdowns with covid.
If a company declares its monthly income to pay taxes, then it has had an activity. How can it carry out its activity as it is not supposed to use electricity?

Anyway, if you think twice about this European directive, it will depend on the willingness of European countries to really limit energy consumption. I mean, there will certainly be several countries that will say well fuck, there are more important things to worry about and mining is insignificant

[stompix]

And it's easy to find out. If you have two people in your household and you consume as much as a household of six people, then you are doing something wrong at home.
And it's easier nowadays for countries (like mine) where we now have smart electricity meters (even for the water)

I always told people that mining operations at home can't be stealthy, not in western countries and not in a lot of Asian countries also.
The average consumption per household in EU is 3700 KWh a year, a 3kw miner, will use 26,280 a year, that's twice the consumption in US who is on another level, and that's just one.

Plus, the smart meter thing, the problem with a miner is that it goes on 24/7, there is no household anywhere on this planet that night after night after night will have this flat consumption, even with air conditioning you still have fluctuations, they top they go faster to keep temperature they shut down, but with a miner, you will have this 3kw (at least) extra all the time.

I mean, there will certainly be several countries that will say well fuck, there are more important things to worry about and mining is insignificant

I seriously doubt right now that EU has more than 2-3% of the global hashrate, and a quick reminder for others, Norway and Iceland are not in the EU.

[bbc.reporter]

It appears my argument has been misunderstood. Let me change my statement to the potential that any person can facilitate something to steal electricity and use this to mine a proof of work cryptocoin is good for the coin's network security and decentralization. This causes their laws to be unenforceable inside their own jurisdictions and without depending on more friendlier politicians.

[Argoo]

Government created problems, government created solutions.

If the free market could just do it's thing for energy, it would all get sorted. If the free market could determine who is willing to pay what for electricity, it would be allocated most efficiently this way.

Such an insane concept in today's world.

Saving electricity this winter by European countries is another of the consequences of the war unleashed by Russia on the territory of Ukraine and the refusal of Russian oil and gas supplies. However, this is a temporary measure. But for Russia, the negative effect will be much stronger, and most importantly, for a very long term. Therefore, it is quite possible that cryptocurrency mining in Europe will be banned for some time. The situation will return to normal and restrictions on cryptocurrencies will be lifted.

[stompix]

It appears my argument has been misunderstood. Let me change my statement to the potential that any person can facilitate something to steal electricity and use this to mine a proof of work cryptocoin is good for the coin's network security and decentralization. This causes their laws to be unenforceable inside their own jurisdictions and without depending on more friendlier politicians.

The whole hash rate that you might feed with staling electricity, just for the sake of numbers, let's say 5%, 15 Exashah, the best gear on the market, S19XP, 100k machines needed, 300MW or a nuclear reactor worth of electricity staling before anything else will not help is a bit when compared to the scandals and the negative representation in the media about the thieves getting caught.

Again, this can't be done by small individuals, with larger it's becoming way risky and if we talk about huge farms that have some shady deals with governments, well, how is that helping decentralization at all when they are killing small legit home miners with their free electricity?

[bbc.reporter]

@stompix. However, our point of view should not be to consider this ability as something very much similar to a scandal even if the government appears to declare this as a scandal. This ability to take and provide for the bitcoin hashrate is in reality a representation of the unenforceability of their auhtority. If my speculation that there are miners in China who remain to participate in mining bitcoin through stolen electricity, this would be the highest representation of my argument.

[stompix]

@stompix. However, our point of view should not be to consider this ability as something very much similar to a scandal even if the government appears to declare this as a scandal. This ability to take and provide for the bitcoin hashrate is in reality a representation of the unenforceability of their auhtority.

Yes, but that's the exact reason I mentioned the numbers.
Of course, nobody can force every citizen in the EU to stop stealing electricity for any kind of activity, nobody can ban everyone running an Appolo miner that draws just 200w, and there will be people who will still avoid this ban even with ASIC miners.

For example, in my case, it would be easy to hide one or two ASICs in the farm run by a family just as I run a few now completely legally and paying my bill, but in all these cases where somebody can hide a few miners, the overall number won't matter compared to the actual hashrate. It's like you sharing movies with your friends would kill netflix, and we know how that went.

[DaveF]

Or miner manufacturers go back to making miners that don't look like miners:



Looks like a normal 2U server to me :-)

But on a serious note, it's easy to target miners. But looking at what I see in data centers here in the US, you could probably make more of an electrical impact by forcing all business over a certain size or or with more then a certain amount of server / router equipment to upgrade to newer more efficient servers / routers / whatever.

But, since that would cost mainstream businesses money we all know that is not going to happen. At least not in our lifetime.
Lets just pick on these newfangled miner people with their oddball internet money stuff.

-Dave

[dansus021]

but how the government now if I mining cryptocurrency, I mean if i small home maybe they probably don't know what i am doing and if i am large player maybe they registered their company as data center right?