Bounty managers and newbie bounty hunters

[LoyceV]

I hate to start a controversial topic that might take away a Newbies ability to earn money, but if a good number of you are going to cheat then fuck off.

My assumption is always that most of the bounty spam accounts belong to a small group of people.

I wrote Why not tag all bounty hunters? earlier this year. To summarize my clickbait:

If tagging them doesn't work, if the forum doesn't ban their low-quality posts, and if they don't bring anything good at all, can't we just ignore them completely? Don't mention them in Reputation (sorry, I'm guilty too), don't mention them in Scam Accusations, don't look for "alts" as long as they have nothing to lose, don't tag them, but just ignore them completely?

Even if you don't allow them to join your bounty campaign, someone else will.

Companies contact us and we give them an idea of the participation we might get them in a bounty campaign, but the numbers are way off since we are allowing these cheaters to join. Essentially, we are no better than the bounty cheaters because we are unknowingly lying. Well most are unknowingly lying. Others just down right don't give a damn long as they get paid.

As long as they pay in made-up tokens, I'm sure they don't care who spams for them, as long as they get maximum exposure.

Now, what about managers? Should we tag managers who are outright being dishonest by allowing Newbies?

That will mean the bounty managers will use Newbie accounts for it, so they don't care. Nothing will change, as long as the forum allows it. So I stay away from the bounty spam boards, and when I see their shitposts on other boards, I report them.

Or tag managers who really aren't caring about the forum?

If you tag them, it should be because there's a trade risk involved, not because they don't care about the forum. All those tags on Newbies only make people used to seeing red tags, so it reduces the warning potential for real scammers.
I dare to go a step further: the professional spammers who create 99.9% of whatever BS tokens the bounty spammers are advertising, they don't care about the forum either. Just like altcoins used to use the forum to promote their coin, just like ICOs used to do, and just like bounties are doing now. And just like I assume most bounty spam accounts are owned by a small group of people, I also assume most of the BS tokens are being created by a small group of people. I had the same assumption with ICOs: the websites are all more or less the same, the approach is the same, the "campaign" is the same. And those people earned millions if not billions from this. Bitcointalk is just a small part of their means to get money out of gullible greedy "investors".

What about decreasing bounty reward allocation for social media campaigns? Will it decrease the amount of newbie cheaters, because it will be unprofitable to join even with multiple accounts?

I expect the opposite: it's not worth it for normal people with friends and family on their social media, but it's still profitable for spammers with 50 accounts, each with thousands of followers who are all bounty spammers too.
The fact that the bounty spammers all have that much followers while all they do is spam should be a dead giveaway they're not normal social media users but dedicated spammers.

If there are seriously that few that join a bounty and 95% of the rest are multis, then what the hell are companies wasting money running a bounty on here then?

That's the thing: they don't waste money, they share some of the BS tokens they created out of thin air.

If you require bounty spammers to have a higher rank, they'll spam other boards to fill up 30 posts and earn Merit. Please keep them isolated on the bounty boards!

[Awaklara]

yahoo62278, I support your idea. the use of this ranking restriction rule would be good enough to suppress novice account farms. but there will be resistance from some bounty managers. how to manage most bounty managers do the same in their campaigns? especially now, I can see more new accounts creating campaign threads on the bounty board.

it was stated in the rules that account with less than 100 actives won't be accepted,

it's pretty good to implement.
it reminded me of the thread @Pandu Geddon made. Ndasmu Njeblug, spam in the bounty thread.
it will not be a problem to increase the activity. even a newbie account can qualify with just one day of spam in the bounty thread.

if the Member+ rank is considered to be too difficult. why not start with Junior members?

[LDL]

Yahoo62278 , He is undoubtedly a bounty manager of a different scale.  He has a great reputation on the forums, especially because his projects get a lot of participants that other bounty managers don't.  Nowadays it can be seen that most of the bounty hunters participate in the bounty by creating multiple accounts.  Bounty managers must take some important steps to stop this criminal trend.

Currently, bounty hunters without understanding the value of the project immediately sell the token at a cheap price in the market, so the project becomes a dead project.  In this case, Hundet Persen is responsible for the bounty hunters destroying the project.

Especially when creating an account can add to the bounty without any activity.  In this case, if it is not possible to participate in the ranking system, especially the minimum junior member or the bounty without the member, then only the participation of multiple accounts will be reduced, and if the punitive measures can be taken immediately, then not only the tendency of cheating will be reduced but the forum will be improved.  .  Therefore, along with the ranking system, punitive measures should be taken.

[Little Mouse]

@LoyceV, since you are here-
Can you take any of the bounty threads which has both Twitter and Facebook campaign and share the data with us which rank have posted there in that bounty thread in the below format-
X amount - Newbies
Y amount - Jr Member
and goes on.
Though I know more than 95% will be newbie only.

[LoyceV]

@LoyceV, since you are here-
Can you take any of the bounty threads which has both Twitter and Facebook campaign and share the data with us which rank have posted there in that bounty thread in the below format-
X amount - Newbies
Y amount - Jr Member

I took the latest thread on patrol: this one. It has 21 pages, so "All" is available. It has 415 posts, 2 of those from OP.
In the page source, I can easily search for:

Code:

							Newbie<br />: 382
							Jr. Member<br />: 15
							Member<br />: 14
							Full Member<br />: 1
							Sr. Member<br />: 3
							Hero Member<br />: [s]4[/s] (I mean 0, this somehow counts something else than users who posted)
							Legendary<br />: 0
							Copper Member<br />: [s]2[/s] (those are OP)

Somehow the total adds up to 415 again, despite not counting OP. I'm not sure why, but you get the idea:
92% of the posts come from Newbies.

[joeperry]

1. No more allowing Newbies in campaigns. Make newbies rank up and have something to lose if they're gonna cheat.
2. No neg trusted accounts can join period

Now, what about managers? Should we tag managers who are outright being dishonest by allowing Newbies? Or tag managers who really aren't caring about the forum? Should we just hope they will try to make a change? Or does anything really matter?

I don't know the answers, but I think together we can all make some good suggestions to try and slow these cheaters down. Maybe also change managers ways. Thoughts?

I honestly think of this before, I carefully checked each of the user's report and that's where I find them cheating (Aside from checking the addresses). Most of the cheater's I've caught are all newbies and new created accounts and even if we tagged them they are just going to change the social media username, address and create new account.

I was thinking of only allowing member and above accounts to join the campaign as jr member (1 merit requirement) is easy to achieve and probably a lot of people would sell their merits to these people. The only disadvantage I can think of is the number of participants would be limited and not all the higher rank members in the forum are interested in joining the bounty as we all know most of them are really not worth joining as only few of them managed to be successful projects.

I don't think tagging managers for allowing them to join newbies would be a good idea as there's some users/newbie accounts only owned one account and actually working fair, what solution that came to my mind is prohibiting newbie users to access the bounties section unless they've meet at least 10 merits as I think tagging them a negative trust wouldn't do good but personally I was planning soon to accept only a jr member and above users.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Let the bounty hunters to get paid by established coins if not bitcoin for their work. Managers will not need to worry about allowing newbies because the genuine members will start showing interests. The promoters want free marketing and expect to have massive good things from that marketing? Nothing is free.

2. No neg trusted accounts can join period

Are you sure that most of the DT even deserve to be in the DT network? Forget about the feedback they leave. These days the DT network is filled with vulnerable users who are doing everything to have a place in the network.

1 merit/copper member is needed to make a post on "Bounties (Altcoins)" board. Although i doubt theymos will add such limitation since it has similarity with newbie jail.

All these 382 newbie will find a way to receive 1 merit and will post the proof of authentication. Result is 382 merit used in abuse LOL

In my opinion, stop paying for any service in token/altcoin but accept only bitcoin (it's a bitcoin forum). 1st: Scam projects will not come here and spend cash in advertising. 2nd: Since scam projects will stop coming, the genuine projects will start getting their attention and they will feel encouraged to spend money on marketing. 3rd: Since it will be paid by bitcoin (genuine cash), good users will start joining bounty and managers will not need to worry about having less participants  to accept newbies.

[Rikafip]

My assumption is always that most of the bounty spam accounts belong to a small group of people.

Some time ago I talked to one of the team members of one altcoin project that had bounty campaign here and because altcoin was already listed on some solid exchanges there was a lot of interest. After bounty campaign was over they distributed tokens and since they weren't satisfied with the results, he did some blockchain analysis that showed how in reality no more than 10 people grabbed 90% of the tokens, while ~500 people were awarded with tokens. So yeah, its definitely controlled by a small group of people.

As long as they pay in made-up tokens, I'm sure they don't care who spams for them, as long as they get maximum exposure.

That's the thing, they don't get good exposure as all those alt accounts usually follow each other so reach is non existent while I"m sure that bounty managers promise something else.

That will mean the bounty managers will use Newbie accounts for it, so they don't care. Nothing will change, as long as the forum allows it. So I stay away from the bounty spam boards, and when I see their shitposts on other boards, I report them.

From what I noticed, bounty managers usually have their own Telegram groups from where they got all those bounty hunters to join, and joining that group is a must, like for example in this bounty campaign so i don't think that it would be that hard to identify them even if they use alt accounts.

That's the thing: they don't waste money, they share some of the BS tokens they created out of thin air.

Aren't managers usually paid in BTC or some other already listed currency? Well, at least those with some reputation.

Currently, bounty hunters without understanding the value of the project immediately sell the token at a cheap price in the market, so the project becomes a dead project.  In this case, Hundet Persen is responsible for the bounty hunters destroying the project.

Bounty hunters destroying the projects? They usually get tokens when they are completely worthless so if bounty hunters manage so i seriously doubt that.


@yahoo62278 have you ever tried implementing this rule, of no newbies joining the campaign? If not, maybe its worth a try just to see how it will work out and how many participants you would get.

[Igebotz]

I thought newbies won't allow any bounty campaign, it must be a jr. member rank, AFAIK.

minimum acceptable rank would be Member +; it's the only way to eliminate a slew of newbie farms.

What do you think if there's a new rule that newbies won't allow to run bounty campaigns and also there are merit and rank requirements the same as the bounty participants?

Theymos don't care what happens in the bounty section because it doesn't benefit the forum financially. It's an independent business, and only the campaign managers can set a certain set of rules, but the community still has the right to fight dishonesty by informing and suggesting managers rules, and anyone who does not follow it may face some sort of punishment...

At the same time, seeing that the newcomer has the first post in the bounty section, it becomes clear that this is not a newbie but someone else's alt. And then the "catch me if you can" game begins.

Haha, no genuine newbie will find his way to the bounty sections on his first day, isn't that one of the forum's hidden sub-boards? It was one of my key findings alts back then. Hah

[YOSHIE]

I don't know the answers, but I think together we can all make some good suggestions to try and slow these cheaters down. Maybe also change managers ways. Thoughts?

If I look roughly, there are more beginners than the Jr. members. Members in this forum, probably a larger percentage of beginners than members who rank high as Jr. equivalent, if beginners are no longer allowed to register in the Bounty campaign, I think many bounty companies die, the company's target is not achieved, as well as the forum will have a negative effect.

I see a bigger percentage of Bounty campaigns promoting on YouTube, Articles, Tiktok, Telegram, Twitter, Facebook etc. this media is mostly used by beginners, high ranking members rarely use these media, Moreover, the Bounty campaign for signatures is also very minimal, plus tokens that have no selling value in the market, I think that banning beginners in Bounty can have a negative effect on the forum and also Bounty companies that want to advertise.


In my opinion, if the Bounty campaign, beginners are not allowed to enter, it's better to just change the Bounties (Altcoins) board into a discussion board, all Bounty companies that advertise on this forum must take Bitcoin payment methods, not tokens, implement a full (signature) based campaign.
Question...! is it possible, of course I don't think so, it's the same if all Bounty managers forbid newbies to promote their Bounty campaigns in social media methods, regardless of the Alt account involved or not...that's a different story.

The problem is here.

Using multiple accounts, cheating and spamming are not allowed.

That's the source of the problem, I know beginners often create Alt accounts with more than two or three accounts to get profit and luck in the same Bounty/token.

Back to the basic rules, having multiple accounts is not banned, while they obey the existing rules, both forum rules and bounty rules, this is a problem that has not been resolved so far, they still violate, even though they have been caught several.

Back to the main problem, just think of it in this forum as living in the real world, the problems are endless, criminal acts still exist, even though the laws and rules are enforced, let the rookies do their activities in the Bounty campaign and let the police work by the existing rules.

[Issa56]

if the Member+ rank is considered to be too difficult. why not start with Junior members?

I think starting with junior member will be kind of low, one person can just struggle to rank one of his account to member rank which after getting to member rank, he will start giving his alt accounts 1 merit which automatically his alt accounts are already in junior member, but if managers set standard to be member rank and above, it will be difficult for a bounty hunter to rank all his account to member rank, if you receive 10 merits, you will be able to send only 5 merits, so even if he will be sharing merits among his alt accounts it won't be easy, and he will be exposed easily if the alts account are not making quality posts and they keep on receiving merit from the same user.
Just assume a user with 5 alts accounts was caught and given negative trust, am sure it will really affect the user and he won't just create another multiple accounts because he knows even if he create them it won't be easy to rank up to member rank, so the user will just create one and focus on it, which some people wont even be able to rank 1 account up to member rank so they will have to give up.

[yahoo62278]

Let the bounty hunters to get paid by established coins if not bitcoin for their work. Managers will not need to worry about allowing newbies because the genuine members will start showing interests. The promoters want free marketing and expect to have massive good things from that marketing? Nothing is free.

2. No neg trusted accounts can join period

Are you sure that most of the DT even deserve to be in the DT network? Forget about the feedback they leave. These days the DT network is filled with vulnerable users who are doing everything to have a place in the network.

1 merit/copper member is needed to make a post on "Bounties (Altcoins)" board. Although i doubt theymos will add such limitation since it has similarity with newbie jail.

All these 382 newbie will find a way to receive 1 merit and will post the proof of authentication. Result is 382 merit used in abuse LOL

In my opinion, stop paying for any service in token/altcoin but accept only bitcoin (it's a bitcoin forum). 1st: Scam projects will not come here and spend cash in advertising. 2nd: Since scam projects will stop coming, the genuine projects will start getting their attention and they will feel encouraged to spend money on marketing. 3rd: Since it will be paid by bitcoin (genuine cash), good users will start joining bounty and managers will not need to worry about having less participants  to accept newbies.

Unfortunately this will never happen. As a few have already said, these companies pay in shit tokens which makes it little risk for them. It's done that way deliberately, so they have little to no risk. They lose the cost of making the token ($20-100), the cost of a manager (tokens-$200 or whatever is negotiated, and they risk time to possibly sell a load of worthless tokens. 99.9% of bounties are a scam that never list or if they do they list on a shit exchange with little to no buy support.

So getting them to pay everyone in an established coin will be nearly impossible. Also like others have stated, there are plenty of no named managers who will always take a campaign no matter what their payment method is.

[The Cryptovator]

Here is my opinion,
Tagging managers won't be a good point. Because spam and DT system isn't the same. If a newbie can create a bounty thread then why should the manager be tagged due to accepting newbies? We don't have a manager's community here where we can discuss everything. It seems anyone could be a manager even newbies. So I do not agree with tagging managers unless they do a crime.

I agree with not allowing newbies to the bounty campaign but this is only possible if the forum prevents them to post on the bounty section or all the managers together decide that. Everyone here has the right to earn, but let them become mature. Just joining bounty isn't a good practice. Whoever even can't earn merit we can't expect a good result from them whether it's a bounty or any other thing. We know most bounty hunters are just like bots. Even their social media are botted.

Eventually, it's will exist the same if the forum doesn't prevent them from posting on the bounty section.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Unfortunately this will never happen. As a few have already said, these companies pay in shit tokens which makes it little risk for them. It's done that way deliberately, so they have little to no risk. They lose the cost of making the token ($20-100), the cost of a manager (tokens-$200 or whatever is negotiated, and they risk time to possibly sell a load of worthless tokens. 99.9% of bounties are a scam that never list or if they do they list on a shit exchange with little to no buy support.

So getting them to pay everyone in an established coin will be nearly impossible. Also like others have stated, there are plenty of no named managers who will always take a campaign no matter what their payment method is.

This proves a point I was making.

When paying with altcoin will not be allowed then 99.9% of those scam projects can not advertise on the forum. Since they can not advertise, 382 newbie account will not be created and send abusive merit to rank to Jr. The remaining 0.1% are considering legit project and they would have fair amount of budget to spend. Since they will pay cash, they will obviously hire users who have good work ethics and capable to follow instructions.

It's both way beneficial. Forum will get rid of those newbie bounty hunters accounts, at least they know that they will need to have a good account reputation to join a bounty so they will become serious. Legit projects will get organic traffic to their projects who will actually buy their offers.

[MainIbem]

From my view manager should allow only from member rank on a certain bounty campaign and I believe it will reduced the act of being cheated because losing a member account could be very painful to them but just Jr. Members can be easily generated since it requires only a merits to rank up to jr by which manager risk could also be reduced and you know when there is no much newbies tension reduces, trust me newbies are the worst sets of people to deals with.

[dkbit98]

If you require bounty spammers to have a higher rank, they'll spam other boards to fill up 30 posts and earn Merit. Please keep them isolated on the bounty boards!

They need to receive merits to get higher ranks and that is not so easy if someone is shitposting spam everywhere, and they will certainly get reported sooner or later.
I would suggest members to spend they merits more carefully, but you can't force newbies to stay isolated in bounty boards, unless some rule change happens.

Aren't managers usually paid in BTC or some other already listed currency? Well, at least those with some reputation.

Most of them accept Bitcoin, but you can check their individual topic pages to see what coins they accept for payment.
I know for a fact that Lauda accepted bunch of shitcoins like Elrond and others for his work (along with Bitcoin), but he probably sold them all for Bitcoin or fiat later.

So getting them to pay everyone in an established coin will be nearly impossible. Also like others have stated, there are plenty of no named managers who will always take a campaign no matter what their payment method is.

Every merchandise finds it's buyer, and it's like cat and mouse game, trying to sell this tokens on time.
No name managers with shitty campaigns are attracting no name spammers, so they are almost living in parallel bitcointalk universe.
I think we should have some rating for managers, and people should generally avoid participating in any campaigns that don't pay at least partially in escrowed Bitcoin.

[LoyceV]

If you require bounty spammers to have a higher rank, they'll spam other boards to fill up 30 posts and earn Merit. Please keep them isolated on the bounty boards!

They need to receive merits to get higher ranks and that is not so easy if someone is shitposting spam everywhere, and they will certainly get reported sooner or later.

Sure, they'll get reported, but if hundreds of Newbies start shitposting the tech boards hoping to earn some Merit, good users will abandon those boards too.

you can't force newbies to stay isolated in bounty boards, unless some rule change happens.

I have nothing against Newbies on the tech boards, but they should be there for the right reasons.

people should generally avoid participating in any campaigns that don't pay at least partially in escrowed Bitcoin.

Most people do That brings us back to the few people with many alt-accounts who earn from spamming.

[DVlog]

Then I see THIS TOPIC by lovemayfamilis and it really kind of pissed me off. Not because lovemayfamilis was catching cheaters, but because every single account out of 67 was a fucking Newbie. I hate to start a controversial topic that might take away a Newbies ability to earn money, but if a good number of you are going to cheat then fuck off.

I know many of them cheated but 67 accounts could belong to a few people who work in a group. I am not taking any side here but I still think most of the newbies are legit users. The problem is few cheaters hold too many accounts that look like there are lots of bounty cheaters. I support your decision though it will hurt all types of hunters. But sometimes we need to be curled to be kind.

[Woodie]

From my view manager should allow only from member rank on a certain bounty campaign and I believe it will reduced the act of being cheated because losing a member account could be very painful to them but just Jr. Members can be easily generated since it requires only a merits to rank up.

Setting an entry level to Member and above will certainly reduce on spam tremendously but then again most campaigns won't get the desired exposure as this is a game of numbers when it comes to marketing a project, I suppose a condition of say 100 constructive posts should be made in the last 120 days or previous 3months and things should get better from here.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

From my view manager should allow only from member rank on a certain bounty campaign and I believe it will reduced the act of being cheated because losing a member account could be very painful to them but just Jr. Members can be easily generated since it requires only a merits to rank up.

Setting an entry level to Member and above will certainly reduce on spam tremendously but then again most campaigns won't get the desired exposure as this is a game of numbers when it comes to marketing a project, I suppose a condition of say 100 constructive posts should be made in the last 120 days or previous 3months and things should get better from here.

Usually in bounty campaign we see thousands of hunters to join and almost all of them are newbie who joined long ago but never received any merit or ranked even above to Jr. If you ask Members minimum and tell the payment will be in worthless token then all of them will drop. In a campaign finding may be 20 users will be difficult.

On the other hand, someone who is promoting a project on Twitter, he really do not need to have a good forum account. It's require for signature campaign.