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Author Topic: Eu gas and electricity prices drop 80% to 2021 level, another apocalypse averted  (Read 158 times)
stompix (OP)
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October 24, 2022, 05:44:30 PM
Last edit: May 20, 2023, 07:27:46 PM by stompix
Merited by Synchronice (3), NeuroticFish (2), bitmover (2), hatshepsut93 (1), DdmrDdmr (1), Rikafip (1)
 #1

We all know the narrative for the last 3 months, Russian, and Iranian propaganda is telling us only how Europe will freeze to death, how it will become bankrupt, every single economist on the surface of the earth who hasn't seen Europe outside the coloring books was already picturing it in like some middle age country, burning wood, driving donkeys and so on and on...

And then as usual, since the economic laws of offer and demand don't give a damn about propaganda, reality hits and it did hard!
A few article on that, from wsj, Nasdaq and

With an oversupply of gas, full deposits, tankers full of gas waiting in line in every port and warmer weather, prices of gas have literally crashed to last October's levels. Note that I quote here spot next-day prices, not futures, and if somebody is asking why is the same reason why when you pay for something in Bitcoin you look at spots prices, not at the futures prices at CME!

So, here is the data from European Energy Exchange:



TFF spot prices have gone down from 200/MWh to 45euro /MWh.

And since I did mention futures let's look at those also, crashed to 95E from an all hight of 349E and still lover than November 2021 for example, but these are future prices, not the ones that make your bill.
Or we can look at CDT options, which surprisingly (for some) are below October levels.



And if we speak of electricity, here are two comparisons, one from the Netherlands grid:



*I've chosen 24 and 25 because both of them are Mondays, and here is a complete comparison of January vs current, so before the war



Deposits are full, no need to make another printscreen you can go and see the data live, there are tens of ships full of LNG waiting in ports to unload, the declared capacity of the known ones on the waiting list being equivalent to two weeks of full capacity of Russian imports, and gain surprisingly to some that picture the whole of Europe as going through a small ice age every winter with reindeer running around and everything being under 10 meters of snow, it's far warmer than usual and even if it weren't, cold weather is often an exaggeration, Europe is not just Finland and Norway.

For those that are indeed curious about real! data, you can see the average here in January last year, for example, in Paris where only one night temperatures dropped below freezing, London, or Berlin, and let's throw Rome too just for fun.

What every Russian shill has forgotten is that there is demand and offer, once you pay a lot you get everything, you're the top bidder, and there is no need to bid for more as you have to build your reserve stash and send the coins to cold storage or in this case gas storage there is no need to keep on paying more, and when there is no more demand at the same level, as in Bitcoin, prices drop to the usual normal average, or as graphics show, the same prices as last year.

So no, unlike how the specialists that haven't set foot once outside their village, no Europeans will not go to drive donkey carts, will not burn their forests to heat and for sure they will not go, this is funny, bankrupt already in 60% of their business.

And since we're at debunking myths here and propaganda, here are the employment levels in Europe: record 74.3 employment, which doesn't really smell like business shutting down.

Now, that being said, it's not like we don't have problems, there is inflation at 10%, there are problems with previous bills, and there is the fear of an economic slowdown overall, but that's not something that Europe is experiencing alone.
China has delayed economical data and when it did present it sent markets in red (Hang Seng went down 6%) and the yuan to the lowest levels in 15 years.
But in short, no, Europe will not freeze to death, we won't be driving donkeys and we will not have our mud huts destroyed by mammoths either.

PS.
This is good for Bitcoin!  Grin
More fiat in your wallet can lead to more coins in your wallet.

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October 24, 2022, 05:57:15 PM
 #2

This is great news and I've managed to miss them. So thank you!

This is good for Bitcoin!  Grin
More fiat in your wallet can lead to more coins in your wallet.

Actually not so fast. The energy prices were subsidized anyway for most of us and the contracts' prices didn't change. Plus, since OPEC last meeting the petrol/gasoline prices are supposed to rise.
I also expect the groceries' prices won't go down this sharply - as you said, inflation is there.

But this means there is excess on the market. And more is better than less (oh, what a cheap philosophy).
This means that there are chances the inflation stops growing (no, it won't be reversed, still..) and heck, one can hope we may even get to avoid a recession.

Maybe I am too happy though. Let's see what's going to happen in the next days/weeks with that price, i.e. whether it'll stabilize and if so, at what levels.
Overall it's good for bitcoin, but maybe not on very short term though.

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October 24, 2022, 10:48:31 PM
 #3

Thanks for sharing

I am far from Europe now, but this kind of news arrives here

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/09/frances-oil-strikes-push-on-as-petrol-station-queues-worsen

About oil shortage in gas station due to strikes, and I have also seen similar news on UK .

Those news come together with war news , and as bad news sells more than good news we don't see news such as you posted here.

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October 24, 2022, 11:58:00 PM
 #4

Germany managed to refill their reserves, Im sure it made Russia mad that this was possible for them to do because it ruined their previous plan of blackmailing the country into compromise to their advantage.   That alone told me it would not be as bad as feared with mass industrial shutdown however I did think the French president said something useful for once when he warned the winter a year from now would actually be the harder hurdle to pass; its likely the lack of energy is now a long term dynamic across a decade or more.

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October 25, 2022, 06:48:48 AM
 #5

Germany managed to refill their reserves, Im sure it made Russia mad that this was possible for them to do because it ruined their previous plan of blackmailing the country into compromise to their advantage.   That alone told me it would not be as bad as feared with mass industrial shutdown however I did think the French president said something useful for once when he warned the winter a year from now would actually be the harder hurdle to pass; its likely the lack of energy is now a long term dynamic across a decade or more.
Russia cannot defeat Ukraine on the battlefield and suffers a crushing military defeat from the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Therefore, all sorts of threats and blackmail are used in order to weaken the countries of Europe in providing military, financial and other assistance to Ukraine to protect it from Russian aggression. Putin's next blackmail with the supply of gas and oil is obviously failing. It will be difficult, but Europe will be able to get rid of its energy dependence on Russia.

In Ukraine, the situation is much more complicated, since since October 10, Russia has begun to deliver massive strikes against the Ukrainian energy infrastructure. At the same time, the Kremlin replaced the scarce high-altitude projectiles with Iranian drones.
About 40% of energy facilities were seriously damaged, in connection with which rolling blackouts were introduced in a number of regions of Ukraine in order to stabilize the overall network.
But the occupiers have already used most of their arsenal of cruise missiles. According to preliminary estimates, the Russian Federation has only 13% of the Iskanders, 43% of the Caliber and 45% of the Kh-101 and Kh-555. Ukraine will definitely survive.

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October 25, 2022, 07:43:33 AM
 #6

The gas market this year is going full crazy, I read yesterday the price even turned negative because there is no demand at the moment. The gas storages in Europe are full and there is not a lot of gas consumption, so the LNG ships are at the shores and need space to unload it. A lot of the demand for gas depends on the weather and this year is not normal so far, we had a very cold mid of September only to get warm temperature for the last 2.5 weeks in Europe. Most people are not using heating yet and as long as we have sunny, 20 degrees weather the gas storage will remain full. During summer most countries panic bought all the available gas to fill up storage. Some experts already predict a very mild winter which is going to put more pressure on the gas price. Looks like the bet of Putin to hope high gas prices will put politcial pressure on European countries to start buying Russian gas again failed. So far the world seems to survive without the cheap Russian gas. The only problem I see is that the lower gas price is not going to help the consumers, all of the gas suppliers increased their prices throughout 2022 and will not reduce prices again at the start of the winter. They will rather be happy about the additional profits and not give them to the consumers. Maybe the politcians are going to intervene here, but so far I don't see the inflation being brought down by this. Companies are quick to increase prices and very slow when it comes to lower prices again.
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October 25, 2022, 07:44:57 AM
 #7

LOL.. this is funny. Dutch TTF prices even now are around 12x higher than the ones from 2020 ($1,208 per thousand cubic meters). And winter season has not started yet. Russia can easily put further strain on the prices by stopping the passage of natural gas through Turkish Stream and Ukraine. The current prices will increase further in the coming months. And even if they don't increase, the heavy engineering industries in the European Union won't be able to afford gas at such prices. The threshold is somewhere around $300 to $400 per thousand cubic meters.

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October 25, 2022, 07:54:53 AM
 #8

LOL.. this is funny. Dutch TTF prices even now are around 12x higher than the ones from 2020 ($1,208 per thousand cubic meters). And winter season has not started yet. Russia can easily put further strain on the prices by stopping the passage of natural gas through Turkish Stream and Ukraine. The current prices will increase further in the coming months. And even if they don't increase, the heavy engineering industries in the European Union won't be able to afford gas at such prices. The threshold is somewhere around $300 to $400 per thousand cubic meters.
Yep, Europe is already pretty much deindustrialized.
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October 25, 2022, 10:02:04 AM
 #9

Nice. Glad to see fossil fuel resources like natural gas and electricity prices fall down. Seem like OPECT+ has failed in its attempts to drive up the oil price too. Some of those fossil fuel cartels really think they can squeeze people out of money at whatever price they want to set. Heh, China is still in full lockdown, with 1.4 billion in population with no travel both domestic and international, low on purchasing power, and low on the manufacturing index. And they think they drove up the price? Oh, the gall of some greedy cunts, fossil fuel cartels.
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October 25, 2022, 02:34:59 PM
 #10

Surprising that the OP claims that prices are down to 2021 levels. This article says otherwise:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-jan-aug-gas-import-costs-surge-189-despite-26-drop-imports-2022-10-17/

For the first eight months of 2022, Germany has spent €49.5 billion to import natural gas (both pipeline and LNG). During the same period in 2021, the import bill amounted to €17.1 billion. That is additional €32.4 billion spent, or roughly €4 billion per month. And one thing to note here is that in terms of volume, Germany imported much less gas when compared to 2021.
stompix (OP)
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October 25, 2022, 04:15:44 PM
 #11

Surprising that the OP claims that prices are down to 2021 levels. This article says otherwise:

How about you read anything beyond the title? Like the first paragraph:

Quote
German natural gas import costs leapt 189% in the first eight months of 2022 from a year earlier

We're in October, what month of the year is October? Is the 10th!
Clear enough for you? Need extra directions?  Cheesy

Actually not so fast. The energy prices were subsidized anyway for most of us and the contracts' prices didn't change. Plus, since OPEC last meeting the petrol/gasoline prices are supposed to rise.
I also expect the groceries' prices won't go down this sharply - as you said, inflation is there.

Of course, it's not like wow, one click and everything is fine, I said that in other topics also, inflation will still be around, maybe we might even dip a few 1-2% in GDP during the winter-spring, and there will be slowdowns but it won't be the apocalypse everyone preached, there won't be shortages of food and for sure we won't be driving donkey carts like the experts who said Kyiv will be conquered in 3 days said.

This is great news and I've managed to miss them. So thank you!

Good news, nobody is interested in good news, if it's not a disease, apocalypse, or market collapsing, nobody reports it as it doesn't get the audience.
Plus here 90% of the users want a total meltdown, because...that would be good for bitcoin!
Plus, the mandatory fall of those damn western capitalist Pigs and the rise of Brics!

Those news come together with war news , and as bad news sells more than good news we don't see news such as you posted here.

Same as the above, good news doesn't sell,  just take a look at this forum and you will see a ratio of 100:1 between topics of a recession happening tomorrow and the economic growth expected.

LOL.. this is funny.

What, you're stupid prediction? Yeah, quite funny how literally zero of them got true!
But keep posting your four lines of useless drivel, it is such a good start for a day when I see people in cringe-level denial.






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November 01, 2022, 07:48:41 AM
 #12

Because of the war between Ukraine and Russia and the attack started by the Russian government on Ukraine, many countries started some economic sanctions against the Russian government and many famous Russian people, but since Russia was expecting to see these economic sanctions they were ready for it however they suffer a lot but they tried to stop supplying the gas for Europe and this way they want to put Europian countries under pressure while Europian countries still can get the gas they want from other countries and this won't be a problem for them in long term.

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November 07, 2022, 10:19:04 AM
Last edit: May 20, 2023, 07:25:22 PM by stompix
 #13

And a sunny day again in Europe, low gas consumption, full of LNG ships waiting to unload while the others...



Ignoring spot prices which are trading 1/3 lower even TFF futures for December(!) are crashing again:



And to keep up with good news,
China's gas consumption may post first fall in 20 years - state energy officials

So not only will China use less LNG as it will buy a few more billion of Russian gas but they re also overall reducing consumption, so moe LNG on the market, cheaper gas, less freezing. And this is good news for the rest of the world too:

Quote
The weekly assessment for spot cargoes for delivery to North Asia dropped to $28 per million British thermal units (mmBtu) in the seven days to Nov. 4. That's the lowest since June - and down 60% from the record high of $70.50 in the week to Aug. 26.
It's worth noting that the price is now below the $29.50 per mmBtu that prevailed in the same week last year, and has dropped for the last seven weeks.



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