How can this be done?

[Poker Player]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5387753.msg60022386#msg60022386

As I commented in a thread in Meta, I am thinking of giving a prize for the best analysis of a poker hand.

As an analysis has a certain component of subjectivity, I would like to make clear the criteria I will use without revealing it.

That is to say, in the OP I will explain what is central to the analysis, but the criteria for evaluating the best analysis I would like to leave it written down somewhere in an encrypted manner if possible, as in a signed message that cannot be deciphered until a later date, if I understood correctly what LoyceV did.

That way I could not be told that I have given the award to whom I like or dislike, but on the basis of objective criteria, written and encrypted in advance.

[1714838394]

1714838394

[NeuroticFish]

Option 1. You can use LoyceV bot for the job by sending it a PM and make sure that you set the delay for publishing/revealing if you don't want the default of 7 days. The drawback is that LoyceV can see the original message from second 1.

Option 2. You do it yourself. Make the message, sign it, publish the signature and the address. When the time comes, write another post (don't edit the first), and this time post the full message, the address and the signature.
People will be able to compare the signature with the initial one and they can also verify the message; if it's the original message indeed, the signature will be verified.

[LoyceV]

as in a signed message that cannot be deciphered until a later date, if I understood correctly what LoyceV did.

I used NeuroticFish's "Option 2": by posting the signature, I could prove the message was the original later on. I used my own bot for it, but you could just post it by yourself if you want.
You're free to use my bot. I don't know anything about poker, so I won't take part in this.

[nc50lc]

Alternatively, it can be done by providing the criteria's hash beforehand.
The hash can prove that you have not changed the criteria since everyone can compute the its hash once it's revealed.
I'd recommend SHA256 for this.

For example, the criteria is:

Code:

1. very big
2. very yellow
3. very good

If you compute the SHA256 hash of the criteria (as text, exactly as written above), you'll get: 63203a91c71aea8bdbfbdb62926c83a65df94c660721209b9b9f5b8ce4b522aa
When you revealed the criteria, users can verify if it's really the criteria that you've used by checking if its SHA256 hash matched the one you've provided beforehand.

Note: Some sha256 tools parse the new lines (enter) as space and some omit it;
so during the criteria reveal, it's best to suggest open-source hashing tools to have a consistent result, eg: github.com/emn178/online-tools (has a web version).

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Option 1. You can use LoyceV bot for the job by sending it a PM and make sure that you set the delay for publishing/revealing if you don't want the default of 7 days. The drawback is that LoyceV can see the original message from second 1.

Option 2. You do it yourself. Make the message, sign it, publish the signature and the address. When the time comes, write another post (don't edit the first), and this time post the full message, the address and the signature.
People will be able to compare the signature with the initial one and they can also verify the message; if it's the original message indeed, the signature will be verified.

I really like this fucking game, I really do 🤣

Option 3: Use your PGP key! It's more secure than any of the options above. Here is how I will do it.

I will find two or more random regular users from the forum. Since it's a secret I will not let them know that I picked them. For example I am going to pick OmegaStarScream and nutildah. I know their PGP public key. Now I am going to encrypt the message that I want only them to know (of course in your case you will let them know later).

Code:

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
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=V0xe
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

Without decrypting it no one will ever know the real message.

OmegaStarScream and nutildah mind to revealing the message?

Code:

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
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=L6yr
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

[Stalker22]

Option 3: Use your PGP key! It's more secure than any of the options above. Here is how I will do it.
~

This is overcomplicated and unnecessary for the case described by Poker Player. He wants to make the message public after a certain event, so there is no need to encrypt the message. It is sufficient to sign or hash a message and publish its signature/hash in advance, so that anyone can verify, and you don't depend on one or two forum members to confirm the authenticity of your message.

Poker Player, if you want to add a timestamp to your message, I suggest that you incorporate the block number and the nonce from the last mined block into the message. When you publish the signature/hash of the message, you also publish the block number and nonce that will be in the message. That way, you will have another provable way of confirming when the message was created.

[Poker Player]

Option 3: Use your PGP key! It's more secure than any of the options above. Here is how I will do it.
~

This is overcomplicated and unnecessary for the case described by Poker Player.

I was going to ask, what is the difference in terms of security? Like 0,001% of being hacked if I use a signed message and 0,00000001% if I use PGP? Because in that case I would use the signed message, which seems to me more simple, although I find it quite interesting the different options. (I just used random numbers)

Let's do an experiment:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Signed message will be revealed on 10/29/2022
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
IIVa9HxfBRnnOFfks0sRBqlK5vd9tOzh6zgA6L6OFLfjCedQocGY6jxeg7tJLAnPKJrAk0RCf1rV6A6 ZSALY9tA=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Address staked here.

Would that be OK?

[NeuroticFish]

Would that be OK?

Looks good to me for now, we will see for real on the 29th.

I would only add that most probably at start some will be asking why the signature doesn't verify now for the text "Signed message will be revealed on 10/29/2022"   and the format could be a bit more clear, but I am also not sure how to make that indeed better. Maybe write "Signed message will be revealed on 10/29/2022" before "-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----"?
On the other hand, you can just send them to initial post by LoyceV and/or to this topic.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Fuck you all 😘
Maybe you thinks it's complicated hearing those complicated words encrypt/decrypt 😂
It's meant to be easy but not sure why you think it's complected LOL
Load precipitants public key and sign the message. You need only recipients public key. It's as simple as sending an email. 

[Poker Player]

Fuck you all 😘
Maybe you thinks it's complicated hearing those complicated words encrypt/decrypt 😂
It's meant to be easy but not sure why you think it's complected LOL
Load precipitants public key and sign the message. You need only recipients public key. It's as simple as sending an email.  

I actually used that once like three years ago. As far as I can remember, it wasn't complicated. But what's the difference in terms of security?

[nc50lc]

-snip-

I actually used that once like three years ago. As far as I can remember, it wasn't complicated. But what's the difference in terms of security?

You wont be able to use that in the use-case described in the OP.
You can't post the encrypted messages before the "reveal date" because the recipients will be able to decrypt it right away.
Your first option, Bitcoin signed message will work since you can immediately post the valid signature for the message that isn't revealed yet.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

You can't post the encrypted messages before the "reveal date" because the recipients will be able to decrypt it right away.

The idea is not to let the recipients to know about using their public key until OP wants to call them to check it was signed for them.

But what's the difference in terms of security?

Both signing a bitcoin address and signing using pgp key are secure enough. PGP actually used in military system. The regular email system also use PGP in the back to encrypt the message. From the font we can not see it though.

[nc50lc]

You can't post the encrypted messages before the "reveal date" because the recipients will be able to decrypt it right away.

The idea is not to let the recipients to know about using their public key until OP wants to call them to check it was signed for them.

Okay, so it's not about your second reply.

Even so, the non-recipient participants/users will have to trust the recipient of the message to show the correct message, since they wont be able to decrypt it by themselves.
Sounds reasonable enough if used together with the forum's trust system but involving trust is kind of a drawback.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Even so, the non-recipient participants/users will have to trust the recipient of the message to show the correct message, since they wont be able to decrypt it by themselves.
Sounds reasonable enough if used together with the forum's trust system but involving trust is kind of a drawback.

That's the reason I suggested to use more than two members. So authenticity of the revealed message can be validated without error from one member. It's just information and I don't think anyone who are on the forum for long time will even try to alter the message.

[LoyceV]

Alternatively, it can be done by providing the criteria's hash beforehand.
The hash can prove that you have not changed the criteria since everyone can compute the its hash once it's revealed.
I'd recommend SHA256 for this.

I picked a Bitcoin signed message over SHA256, because I assumed more users here would be able to verify it on their own.

Option 3: Use your PGP key! It's more secure than any of the options above.

PGP is more complicated to verify than either of the other 2 options.

Let's do an experiment:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Signed message will be revealed on 10/29/2022
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
IIVa9HxfBRnnOFfks0sRBqlK5vd9tOzh6zgA6L6OFLfjCedQocGY6jxeg7tJLAnPKJrAk0RCf1rV6A6 ZSALY9tA=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Address staked here.

Would that be OK?

I'll tell you on October 29

Fuck you all 😘

Wrong topic, orgies happen here.

Maybe you thinks it's complicated hearing those complicated words encrypt/decrypt 😂
It's meant to be easy but not sure why you think it's complected LOL
Load precipitants public key and sign the message. You need only recipients public key.

I tried it a few times, and it was annoyingly complicated. What's worse, is that it didn't give me any confidence that I know what I'm doing.

It's as simple as sending an email.

If that would be true, everyone would use PGP by default for all their emails.

[NeuroticFish]

It's as simple as sending an email.

If that would be true, everyone would use PGP by default for all their emails.

Actually I've been using PGP in my mails long ago. I've found back then some nice software that worked as a plugin to Outlook. Nice and smooth. I've recommended it to all my friends.
And.. I've stopped at the point the sysadmin of the company I've been working at back then started to be suspicious what I have to hide (and of course, this went to my boss, pretty soon). Yeah, back then I've been using the company email for personal stuff too (too young, too stupid, shhhh, but the company was not that professional/strict either).

PGP is more complicated to verify than either of the other 2 options.

PGP is not bad, just.. we're on a bitcoin forum

Wrong topic, orgies happen here.

Although I should have been expecting this, it deserves 1 sM for the laugh.

[Poker Player]

Lol.

I guess I should have saved the full signed message somehow, right?

I just opened Electrum to post the full message, but I don't see like a signed message history or anything. 

 

[LoyceV]

I guess I should have saved the full signed message somehow, right?

Yes Unless you can type the exact same message again.

So I can answer yesterday's question now:

Let's do an experiment:
~
Would that be OK?

I'll tell you on October 29

Nope

I just opened Electrum to post the full message, but I don't see like a signed message history or anything.  

I've never seen a wallet that keeps a history of signed or verified messages.

[Stalker22]

The regular email system also use PGP in the back to encrypt the message. From the font we can not see it though.

I do not want to go off-topic, but that is wrong. The majority of "regular" email systems do not use encryption in the backend and all messages are still stored in cleartext form on the servers. Trust me, I was a sysadmin for years. 

[n0nce]

Option 3: Use your PGP key! It's more secure than any of the options above. Here is how I will do it.
~

This is overcomplicated and unnecessary for the case described by Poker Player.

I was going to ask, what is the difference in terms of security? Like 0,001% of being hacked if I use a signed message and 0,00000001% if I use PGP? Because in that case I would use the signed message, which seems to me more simple, although I find it quite interesting the different options. (I just used random numbers)

No difference at all. If it was possible to 'hack' your Bitcoin message signature, it would also be possible to steal coins from the blockchain.

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Signed message will be revealed on 10/29/2022
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
IIVa9HxfBRnnOFfks0sRBqlK5vd9tOzh6zgA6L6OFLfjCedQocGY6jxeg7tJLAnPKJrAk0RCf1rV6A6 ZSALY9tA=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Address staked here.

Would that be OK?

Something like that works perfectly, yes. Do make sure that the post is / won't be edited; that's just one thing I'd try to make sure of. Or someone archive the page just in case there will be doubts in the future.