German gas giant has lost 93% of its value or 14.1 billion euros this year

[pooya87]

Uniper (UN01.DE) reported a record 40 billion euro ($39.3 billion) net loss in the first nine months of this year, the biggest in German corporate history, after Russia stopped its supplies.
Since the start of the year shares in Uniper have lost 93% of their value, giving it a current market value of 1.1 billion euros, down from 15.2 billion euros on Jan. 3.

This is the worst case and I don't want to focus on this case but point out a different view towards the current situation of stock market.

Whenever people talk about stock market crashing these days, their view is in a way selfish because they focus on the money the stock market investors lost. What they are forgetting is that the stocks that lose value are from companies that have employees and are now losing a lot of money. In other words this is affecting millions of employed people.

Remember the aftermath of 2008 stock market crash. It wasn't just stock market investors who lost money, it was all the employees that lost their jobs because the companies with shares that got dumped had to downsize, shut down, etc. that eliminated over a million jobs with millions of unemployed people most of whom became homeless.

This also highlights the importance of having a well diversified portfolio. Look at bitcoin for example. When stock market started crashing bitcoin crashed too (which in my opinion was an emotional and irrational response) but it stopped because there is no correlation between bitcoin and stock market. While stock market continued crashing, bitcoin remained strong and is now starting to slowly go back up again too.
Having other sources of income and a decent portfolio is very important at times like this when you are facing a cost of living crisis accompanied by looming threat of unemployment.

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[Smack That Ace]

Yes, the stock market is still falling, not only the stocks of oil and gas companies but the stocks of technology companies are also falling non-stop while it seems that Bitcoin's decline has stopped. We can confirm bitcoin is starting to have a strong bull run but it can be seen that it is resisting a new drop quite well, it can be said that bitcoin is starting to show its effectiveness in this crisis. I think after the crisis is over people will have a different view of bitcoin and they will have to know what to do to protect themselves from future crises, bitcoin is inevitable.

Chart facebook(Meta)

[Hydrogen]

Uniper (UN01.DE) reported a record 40 billion euro ($39.3 billion) net loss in the first nine months of this year, the biggest in German corporate history, after Russia stopped its supplies.
Since the start of the year shares in Uniper have lost 93% of their value, giving it a current market value of 1.1 billion euros, down from 15.2 billion euros on Jan. 3.

During the 2008 economic crisis, there were bank stocks which had declined more than 93% in value down to $0.03.

Which a few weeks later were worth $3.00 after the bank bailout bill (TARP) had been announced.

Imagine a stock appreciating from $0.03 to $3.00 within the span of a few weeks for a cool 100x gain.

People ask how recession and economic crisis can be profitable. Price volatility of assets tends to shift massively during crisis and recession.

Assets that were once deemed "stable" fluctuate wildly. Which might contribute to potential gains (and losses in unfortunate cases).

Did anyone notice that the stock market is experiencing considerably more volatility than bitcoin is atm.

Where are "bitcoin is too volatile" critics now? Strangely silent aren't they. I doubt they care if stocks have more volatility than bitcoin in 2022. But if they did care, they might find it remarkable.

[stompix]

Desperation, your name is pooya87!!!

After getting hammered with all the news that there is sunflower oil in superstores, that we have more than enough food, that gas has dropped 5x times, that the German economy has still posted growth in the last trimester, that there was no wave of 60% of bankruptcy now it's clinging to straws time, one company one out of one thousand.

Don't worry, the company has already been bailed, 28 billion is nothing, it might be much for the Iranian economy which is half the size of Bavaria, but for a 4 trillion economy is peanuts. Worry about your crumbling toilet paper rial that just hit the lowest against the dollar and stop caring so much about countries you will never get a visa for. 

As for the stock market crash, DAX is recovering pretty well,


must be really painful for you.

But keep it coming, those topics full of flaming hate will keep us happy and warm in winter 

[Flexystar]

I am not pushing it but it’s possible that after strict policies of various European governments, UK’s fall, Germany’s gas shock and recessions added bonus causing real panic amongst the various institutional investor as well as individual for sure.

Considering your example of 2008 fall and also various after shocks it’s evident that people tend to sell everything they have.

This time they have Bitcoin as security where they could invest and safeguard the money from centralised restrictions. This could be one of the reason for bitcoins rebounding but it’s hypothetical theory but close to truth.

[cabron]

This only proves that geopolitics affects our lives in more ways than we knew. Many people suffer due to job loss because of the leader's decision in boycotting Russian gas only to find themselves getting gas from somewhere else for a higher price. Without gas, industrialization is just not going to run and unemployment is the next to rise.

Stocks are crashing and investors shun thinking the FED will pivot by lowering rates again. But what is happening in geopolitics is just a fundamental factor to look at where things may go.

[DVlog]

This will happens when you ignore your economic needs and listen to your big brother. If Germany can't get cheap Russian gas then they will be forced to buy expensive gas from the USA. The automobile industry in Germany is going to shrink. How they are going to keep their house warm in the winter when the electricity price is higher than the house rent? German people are suffering from fighting someone's war.

[Fortify]

Uniper (UN01.DE) reported a record 40 billion euro ($39.3 billion) net loss in the first nine months of this year, the biggest in German corporate history, after Russia stopped its supplies.
Since the start of the year shares in Uniper have lost 93% of their value, giving it a current market value of 1.1 billion euros, down from 15.2 billion euros on Jan. 3.

This is the worst case and I don't want to focus on this case but point out a different view towards the current situation of stock market.

Whenever people talk about stock market crashing these days, their view is in a way selfish because they focus on the money the stock market investors lost. What they are forgetting is that the stocks that lose value are from companies that have employees and are now losing a lot of money. In other words this is affecting millions of employed people.

Remember the aftermath of 2008 stock market crash. It wasn't just stock market investors who lost money, it was all the employees that lost their jobs because the companies with shares that got dumped had to downsize, shut down, etc. that eliminated over a million jobs with millions of unemployed people most of whom became homeless.

This also highlights the importance of having a well diversified portfolio. Look at bitcoin for example. When stock market started crashing bitcoin crashed too (which in my opinion was an emotional and irrational response) but it stopped because there is no correlation between bitcoin and stock market. While stock market continued crashing, bitcoin remained strong and is now starting to slowly go back up again too.
Having other sources of income and a decent portfolio is very important at times like this when you are facing a cost of living crisis accompanied by looming threat of unemployment.

Seems like an obvious outcome to losing the vast majority of your supplies, equal to a gold mining company losing mineral rights on their major source of extraction. Companies should be more diversified otherwise this is inevitable and shows that there was a degree of high risk management going on. Then again, the sole purpose of some companies is to act as a shell around one particular purpose and it can more easily be closed now that there is little hope of mending relations with Russia, at least when it comes to oil and gas imports where they clearly cannot be trusted as a reliable partner again. Single companies crash and burn all the time, it's not a big deal.

[goaldigger]

This will happens when you ignore your economic needs and listen to your big brother. If Germany can't get cheap Russian gas then they will be forced to buy expensive gas from the USA. The automobile industry in Germany is going to shrink. How they are going to keep their house warm in the winter when the electricity price is higher than the house rent? German people are suffering from fighting someone's war.

This is how allies works and they have to deal with this or else, they might suffer more.
Losing 93% of your value might put you in a bankruptcy and that’s not the only company that suffers a lot in Germany, many are already seeking for a help. If they can’t find solution for this, they might suffer for a longer problem and their inflation continues to rise as well. USA should give more discounts to EU as they suffer a lot because of the sanctions they impose against Russia, winter is coming that can cause more problem.

[STT]

Shares are always inferior to the bonds of a company in terms of control and ownership its just that bonds can be paid off normally if suffient cash is available.  Any situation like this where a company makes a misstep and/or the sector collapses then the shares will become quite worthless compared to the money owed for the companies ongoing operations.

Some gas companies in Europe have arranged for the import of Liquid gas from the excess that USA has, its a natural arbitrage that was foreseeable years back.  USA used to deny the export of energy like this but recently lifted that law, any european gas company which ignored that avenue of revenue was sadly lacking vision for the benefits of diversity in security long term.

[Gyfts]

Uniper (UN01.DE) reported a record 40 billion euro ($39.3 billion) net loss in the first nine months of this year, the biggest in German corporate history, after Russia stopped its supplies.
Since the start of the year shares in Uniper have lost 93% of their value, giving it a current market value of 1.1 billion euros, down from 15.2 billion euros on Jan. 3.

During the 2008 economic crisis, there were bank stocks which had declined more than 93% in value down to $0.03.

Which a few weeks later were worth $3.00 after the bank bailout bill (TARP) had been announced.

Imagine a stock appreciating from $0.03 to $3.00 within the span of a few weeks for a cool 100x gain.

People ask how recession and economic crisis can be profitable. Price volatility of assets tends to shift massively during crisis and recession.

Assets that were once deemed "stable" fluctuate wildly. Which might contribute to potential gains (and losses in unfortunate cases).

Did anyone notice that the stock market is experiencing considerably more volatility than bitcoin is atm.

Where are "bitcoin is too volatile" critics now? Strangely silent aren't they. I doubt they care if stocks have more volatility than bitcoin in 2022. But if they did care, they might find it remarkable.

It wasn't just the banking institutions that the government bailed out, they were happy to bail out other industries too. I understand why the federal government would want to keep the banking institutions from collapsing. After all, it's the government that aimed at creating more home owners in the first place which ended up incentivizing the creation of sub prime mortgages. In any event, with how incestuous the relationship is between the government and banking institutions, their bail out was a given.

I'm generally not in favor of using tax payer money for the government to pick which industries are worthy of saving. Jobs are at risk when these companies collapse, but it seems to me a recovery is quicker when the businesses that can't responsibly manage themselves are taken out of the market for newer businesses to form.

[pooya87]

I am not pushing it but it’s possible that after strict policies of various European governments, UK’s fall, Germany’s gas shock and recessions added bonus causing real panic amongst the various institutional investor as well as individual for sure.

Considering your example of 2008 fall and also various after shocks it’s evident that people tend to sell everything they have.

This is not caused only by the investors selling though, it is mainly because these companies and industries are shrinking. The worst effects are obviously on energy companies (like Uniper) but others are being affected too. For example the German car industry is not doing well either, so is the food industry in most of Europe including the fertilizer industry.

Another reason for industrial failure in Europe is that most of them are in a very competitive global market. For example the automotive industry. There are other competitors elsewhere that aren't affected by the same inflation and high energy costs as EU so they can continue manufacturing car parts for example at much cheaper prices and put their European competitors out of business in long run and if they play their cards right.

The governments may print a lot of money to bail some of them out for now but eventually they have to choose between only 2 options. Do what China did or what US did.
China lowered their fiat value to gain even more edge but that means even bigger inflation in Europe as euro dumps. And that's only if China doesn't compete here too and if the energy crisis doesn't get worse next year.
US industries simply transferred a lot of industries abroad but that means high unemployment in Europe as they don't take their workers with them!

[kryptqnick]

Having several sources of income is a good idea in general, IMO, because that makes a person less dependent on any particular source and thus more likely to quit if conditions are not to a person's liking (if it's one source among 3, you're more likely to quit this job than if it's your sole source of income). Also, I like the op's observation that stocks aren't just numbers, but there are companies behind them and jobs behind those companies. So when a stock goes down, employers, employees, and stock investors lose. But, I'd add, this is what makes Bitcoin a bit better: if it falls, only investors suffer, since there is no company with employees losing their jobs whenever Bitcoin is down, at least not the way it is with stocks.

[Gozie51]

Having other sources of income and a decent portfolio is very important at times like this when you are facing a cost of living crisis accompanied by looming threat of unemployment.

This agenda is really coming up in the world lately that more people have started coming to that reality that this phenomena that is confronting them will further impoverish them if they don't do anything to it. The global recession gradually creeping in is what I think has quickened inflation that prices are skyhigh and having more income is what equilibrium that people sort after. Nigeria is not left out in this and having capital to go into more investment is the real challenge because you have hardly got out of feeding, payment of house rent, children school feeds and other huge expenses. Moreover, approaching the banks for loan is even more difficult this time because you definitely need to provide some collateral and the percentage rate is overwhelmingly high.

[pooya87]

Something that should not be forgotten is that all of this is a chain of events that happen one by one and because of one another:
Energy crisis -> inflation goes higher -> fiat tanks -> people don't have money to spend -> different businesses earn less money (due to less customers) -> some downsize, some shut down entirely -> unemployment grows -> recession starts -> government prints more money to bailout a handful of giants (eg. Uniper) -> inflation goes even higher -> fiat tanks even more -> government increases interest rate (to fight tanking) -> recession gets worse -> people don't have money to spend -> ....

They recently ran a survey basically about cost of living in Germany among "regular people" focusing on Christmas since it is close. The results show picture of an economy that is shrinking and regular people who have been struggling to pay for their living.

The head of surveys at the Institute for Economic Research (ifo), Klaus Wohlrabe, is already warning: "Because of the high inflation rates, people on low incomes in particular can afford less and are reluctant to buy." Almost half of the retailers surveyed (45.7 percent) report of customer shyness.

But the Christmas business is not only threatened by rising prices. 74.9 percent of retailers struggled with delivery bottlenecks in October!

Supermarkets and food retailers are hardest hit by delivery bottlenecks - 90 percent report problems. Wohlrabe: "Some products will be missing on the shelves there."

In an INSA survey conducted by BILD, almost every third citizen (31 percent) stated that they had no money this year to buy Christmas presents for their loved ones because of inflation.

Among citizens who have a net household income of less than 2000 euros, almost half will not be able to buy presents for Christmas this year.

[WatChe]

Having other sources of income and a decent portfolio is very important at times like this when you are facing a cost of living crisis accompanied by looming threat of unemployment.

Cant agree more. If you are doing a job then you must develop other source of income too since in current uncertain environment you can lose job in blink of an eye. Btcointalk.org is also a good source of income as you can easily easy up to 200$ here from signature campaigns.
I have a point of view about stock market investment, stock market crashes many time in history but it has the capability to bounce back every time. So as an investor its best time to buy when stock market crashes and same holds true to bitcoin too. We buy bitcoin only when it goes up and we refrain from buying when bitcoin is down as it is right now.
I remember in 2008 in my country Pakistan stock market was shut down for months due to massive crash but eventually it regains its lost value. But yes it took some time.