Are miners paid premium over market price for mined Bitcoin?

[virginorange]

I would be very happy, if someone with mining experience can explain to me how miners are selling their coins (e.g. to cover electricity bills).
Maybe you can also guide me to an article explaining this process.

❶ "How do miners sell their Bitcoin?"
ⓐ Do they just have a usual account with a centralized regulated exchange like Coinbase, Binance or Kraken?
ⓑ Do they sell OTC?
ⓒ Is banking an issue? Bank might dislike crypto related activity.

❷ "Are you paid premium over market price?"

I read a couple of articles claiming that "virgin" (=freshly mined) Bitcoin are sold for a premium over market price:
  https[Suspicious link removed]cs-freshly-minted-virgin-bitcoins/
  https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/op-ed-will-regulations-put-a-premium-on-virgin-bitcoin
  https://cointelegraph.com/news/virgin-bitcoin-most-in-demand-crypto-that-is-regulated-differently

Is this a rare exception for miners to be paid a premium on their freshly mined Bitcoin or are there common arrangements in place to buy your coins for a premium. So I was wondering, if there are any marketplaces where virgin Bitcoin are traded as a separate category from normal Bitcoin?

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[NotFuzzyWarm]

All of your questions can be answered in a heartbeat using Google or going here which is the Beginners & Help area
As for

Do they just have a usual account with a centralized regulated exchange like Coinbase, Binance or Kraken?

Yes.
Regarding 'virgin' coins: Pure Marketing - only an idiot would pay more for new coins.
Banks, as with everything in life -- depends. Some don't care, some do care. Same with your Country's attitude toward crypto.
Do Your Own Research online using *targeted* questions that zero in on where you live..

[joniboini]

Most of those virgin buyers are probably doing it for privacy. If you're also interested in that there are dozens of mixers or a method like coinjoin to obfuscate your transaction, I don't think it is worth it for retail users. Might as well hold your BTC and wait for the next bull market if profit is what you're after.

[BitMaxz]

I mine, but I usually exchange them directly to any exchange. I don't use any mixer for virgin BTC since it's clean and came from the pool.

I guess that is why they mix or trade BTC in P2P exchange due to privacy. Also, I think some country before ban mining, so possible those who are secretly mining want to withdraw a few BTC to pay bills and the only way they can do this is to trade them in a P2P exchange or use a mixer to make sure they don't have any traces that they are mining.

[virginorange]

Most of those virgin buyers are probably doing it for privacy.

I would buy peer to peer for privacy. However I would buy virgin Bitcoin for regulatory compliance.

I don't think it is worth it for retail users. Might as well hold your BTC and wait for the next bull market if profit is what you're after.

I see BTC more as insurance policy. Limited supply make it interesting for savings. And censorship resistance makes it interesting for censorship / persecution / tyranny.

If you're also interested in that there are dozens of mixers or a method like coinjoin to obfuscate your transaction,

I use Bisq for buying BTC peer to peer. Peer to peer trading in itself is a "bad" transaction history according to chainalysis. Plus some of the coins I acquired on Bisq have an "bad" history before Bisq. I assume future regulation might become more strict. This could be a potential risk for my investments. Therefore I would like to diversify the history of my acquired Bitcoin to reduce risk of future regulatory tightening. Using coinjoins also makes Bicoin "bad", so it does not help me to become more resilient in case of regulatory tightening.
https://www.chainalysis.com/chainalysis-kyt/

[hZti]

Yes.
regarding 'virgin' coins. Pure Marketing - only an idiot would pay more for new coins.

I can only agree with this statement and already the question itself reveals to me that Bitcoin itself was not fully understood. Of course you can have the fear that bitcoin will become more regulated, but everything can alway become more regulated. The question is just how likely it is and I don’t see any reason to do such a regulation since it would mostly affect normal people and not criminals.

[virginorange]

Yes.
regarding 'virgin' coins. Pure Marketing - only an idiot would pay more for new coins.

If somebody is happy to make money of me, by selling me his virgin coins, I'm happy to buy.

You may question my intelligence or knowledge, but who doesn't like extra money?

Of course you can have the fear that bitcoin will become more regulated, but everything can always become more regulated. The question is just how likely it is and I don’t see any reason to do such a regulation since it would mostly affect normal people and not criminals.

Of cause the government could spy on us. The question is just how likely it is that the NSA exists, since I don’t see any reason to spy on your own population since it would mostly affect normal people and not criminals.
Who suffers under anti money laundering regulation? Few criminals and many normal people.
What about money does it help rich asset owners or people on a paycheck & renting?

Some may think the people in power optimize society for the benefit of those not in power.
Others may think that the people in power would like to stay in power and pressure the powerless to obey them. In oder to stay powerful they may use regulation to starve of threats to their power. 

I can only agree with this statement and already the question itself reveals to me that Bitcoin itself was not fully understood.

Is this a hint on fungibility and censorship resistance?

[BlackHatCoiner]

I would buy peer to peer for privacy. However I would buy virgin Bitcoin for regulatory compliance.

Buying bitcoin peer-to-peer means you don't acknowledge "tainted / clean coins". They're all equal, and so it is.

Plus some of the coins I acquired on Bisq have an "bad" history before Bisq. I assume future regulation might become more strict.

They're going to. Regulators won't stop here. As long as they don't have the control over the currency, they're going to be as hostile as possible. That's why everyone should switch to peer-to-peer trading at the moment, and avoid centralized exchanges which are entities they can impose control over easily. With software like Bisq, we can gain a new territory of freedom for a while.

[sabre_labs]

As mentioned by the other old timers here, there is technically NO difference between newly minted coins and new addresses created to receive coins. They are all the same and one is not any less tracable than the other. This is an old myth that has been around a long time.

That said there are people who are willling to pay a bit more to convert fiat money to BTC using the process of mining instead of buying it OTC or exchange. These people/firms want to acquire more BTC but do not want other to watch their addresses or exchanges to know their holdings. Thus for these people it makes sense and they will pay a bit more for the exchange.

[virginorange]

Buying bitcoin peer-to-peer means you don't acknowledge "tainted / clean coins". They're all equal, and so it is.

My understanding:

Buying peer-to-peer = no centralized exchange between buyer and seller.
Tainted coins = government dislikes history and will try to fight them in the future

Regulators won't stop here. As long as they don't have the control over the currency, they're going to be as hostile as possible. That's why everyone should switch to peer-to-peer trading at the moment, and avoid centralized exchanges which are entities they can impose control over easily. With software like Bisq, we can gain a new territory of freedom for a while.

I agree, government will become as hostile to crypto as it is useful to them to maximize power over the population. I expect Monero will be banned eventually. I don't see a Bitcoin ban in the US. The US will try to conquer Bitcoin with regulation and occasional imprisonments.

As mentioned by the other old timers here, there is technically NO differenBuying bitcoin peer-to-peer means you don't acknowledge "tainted / clean coins". They're all equal, and so it is.ce between newly minted coins and new addresses created to receive coins. They are all the same and one is not any less tracable than the other. This is an old myth that has been around a long time.

Two identically build houses build next to each other:
ⓐ lacks building permit
ⓑ has building permit
➣ technically there is no difference between house ⓐ and ⓑ
➣ I recognize form a engineering perspective both houses are equal
➣ house ⓐ has higher risk of being destroyed by the state

What house I will prefer to buy? House ⓑ, not because of physics, because of regulation and the ability of the state to enforce it with violence.

Three identically plots of soil next to each other:
ⓐ government allows you to grow tress, but not to farm and not to build a house
ⓑ government allows you to farm, but not to build a house
ⓒ government allows you to build a house
Where I live land ⓐ trades very cheap, land ⓑ is still relatively cheap and land ⓒ is very expensive
➣ technically there is no difference between house ⓐ and ⓑ and ⓒ
➣ I recognize form a building and farming perspective all three pieces of land are equal
➣ However I can still understand, why the lands trades for different prices.

Making equal stuff unequal

These people/firms want to acquire more BTC but do not want other to watch their addresses or exchanges to know their holdings.

This is the reason I buy non KYC P2P. Mining would be best, however electricity prices and taxation policy make it too expensive for me.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Tainted coins = government dislikes history and will try to fight them in the future

I find this more accurate:

Tainting coins might be a pointless process of detecting actually illicit-related activity, but it's a very effective process of incentivizing bitcoin users to be as compliant and conformist as possible. Same as with anti-money laundering laws, and privacy sacrificing to protect from terrorism and tax evasion. In the end, it's an incentive of being meek, for the sake of the surveillance state.

I agree, government will become as hostile to crypto as it is useful to them to maximize power over the population. I expect Monero will be banned eventually. I don't see a Bitcoin ban in the US. The US will try to conquer Bitcoin with regulation and occasional imprisonments.

Governments around the world (not only US) will try to fight both. Monero is a red flag, no doubt. That doesn't mean there won't be any activity at all, though. It's a favorite option in decentralized exchanges, no wonder why. Lightning also makes transactions more private, so that will also be subjected sooner or later.

[kano]

Governments have been hostile to crypto since bitcoin started - nothing new there.

Creating a thread about scare tactics that have been around for more than 10 years seems rather a waste of time.

[virginorange]

Governments have been hostile to crypto since bitcoin started - nothing new there.

I assume governments will become more effective attacking Bitcoin, but they will be least hostile to virgin Bitcoin.

Creating a thread about scare tactics that have been around for more than 10 years seems rather a waste of time.

If a miner has the option to sell Bitcoin over market price, he will be happy.
If I can buy freshly mined Bitcoin peer to peer, I will be happy.

For me it is risk management diversifying into Bitcoin with a variety of histories.

[FP91G]

Governments have been hostile to crypto since bitcoin started - nothing new there.

I assume governments will become more effective attacking Bitcoin, but they will be least hostile to virgin Bitcoin.

Creating a thread about scare tactics that have been around for more than 10 years seems rather a waste of time.

If a miner has the option to sell Bitcoin over market price, he will be happy.
If I can buy freshly mined Bitcoin peer to peer, I will be happy.

For me it is risk management diversifying into Bitcoin with a variety of histories.

In Russia, where there is still no law on mining, if you are a beginner miner with several containers and consumption of several megawatts per hour, then they will buy bitcoin from you with a markup of 3-7%. If this is Irkutsk, then you can pay for rent and electricity with cryptocurrency. According to the documents, you pay in rubles, but you give away the cryptocurrency at a more favorable rate for the owner of the site where you mine.