Could This Help To Reduce Spam?

[Rikafip]

Don't lock, only disable signature from the 1000th pages onwards. It would filter signature spammers from posting shit.

And how would that change anything as they would just move to another sub-1000 page topic and continue posting shit. Keep in mind that they have to fill their signature quotas and they will just do it someplace else and posting in smaller topics won't magically make them better posters.

As I mentioned in one of the previous posts, take for example NBA thread that has more than 2k pages. Let's say that you create a new thread at the beginning of each season (which would happen if you disable signatures after 1k pages) how exactly would that affect the post quality? People would continue to write the same as before.

Since majority of spam is created due signature campaigns, its up to the managers to (at least try) control that by not counting low value posts.

[stompix]

It's obvious what will happen
- spammers will create new topics and abandon them when the quota is near
- they will flock to other topics that are building slowly and start spamming stupid things about sports they don't even know how are played

The 1000 barrier is also way too high for some and for some other sports or competitions it might be too low.
Unfortunately, the only ones that can do something about it are mods and more importantly campaign managers, but the second ones don't seem to care that much.

Solving the spam is not partially. I suggest that there should be a minimum level to show the signature in all forums, such as 1 merit per month or 20 per month in some spam boards, if you do not get those merits, the signature will disappear.

Sounds nice but I'm pretty sure in reality a lot of them will manage to get enough either directly or by trading it.
Even the red-tagged 1xbit spammers are getting 1 or 2 merits, so for the more advanced spammers capable of writing 5 not 2 lines of text 1 merit will be reachable. Also, I don't think the WO members will be happy with that, that topic will be flooded with merit begging.

I'm not misleading anyone but most mega thread contains a lot of spam, compared to smaller ones.

If you lock those megathreads, where do you think those spammers will write? Do you think that they would stop posting or suddenly increase their post quality because of that measures? Of course not, they would just share their nonsense in other threads so I don't really see how what's proposed in your first post would help the forum.

Don't lock, only disable signature from the 1000th pages onwards. It would filter signature spammers from posting shit.

I think that the battle for the whole board is lost and there is absolutely no possible way to control it, so it would be better to simply keep your own topics clean by having them moderated. After all, if we think this from the user perspective, they could spam all the s** they want in mega threads while real gamblers who make real posts will stay in those self-moderated ones where they can actually communicate.

But out of pure curiosity, what would a bumping rule do to that board?

It's a bit hard to grasp all the impact but if topics with shitposter are not getting bumped by low-merit spammers while self-moderated topics with users with higher activity are being kept on the front page, wouldn't that cause less exposure to mega threads and finally make managers realize they are paying for bottom page zero views posts?
I know there are flaws here also but at least the code is already done and it takes just a minute to include the board.

[hugeblack]

It's an interesting idea. The question is, how do we determine how many merits someone needs to get before a signature appears?

Based on spam rate, Merit rate, Merit-to-post rate, posts to merit posts rate...etc

Sounds nice but I'm pretty sure in reality a lot of them will manage to get enough either directly or by trading it.
Even the red-tagged 1xbit spammers are getting 1 or 2 merits, so for the more advanced spammers capable of writing 5 not 2 lines of text 1 merit will be reachable. Also, I don't think the WO members will be happy with that, that topic will be flooded with merit begging.

Most of us will fail in this task. Suppose, for example, that the members who participate in the signature campaigns are 500 members, and with restrictions of about 20 Merits per month, this means 10K merits per month.

Merit sources generate 33989 and therefore it will not be a difficult task, especially since what you will lose is the signature (for a week/month) and not your account.

This will also move the forum as a whole as it is rare for members to be removed after they join signature campaigns, such restrictions will make it easier to remove a member and thus add more members.

[stompix]

Most of us will fail in this task. Suppose, for example, that the members who participate in the signature campaigns are 500 members, and with restrictions of about 20 Merits per month, this means 10K merits per month.

20 merits a month is going overboard and even 10 sounds like way too much.
You say it's easy for 500 members to get 20 merits a month but I doubt there are that many posters overall in the gambling section that get that many, probably one of our AI friends might come up with a list but I'm betting that there are way fewer users that get 20 a month and that there is way less merit being spent on the gambling board than other subforums, so a higher requirement will also hurt some that don't frequent high merit distribution areas too.

I think we're slowly turning from making the board less spammy to making it some sort of restricted area for older users only.

[Agbe]

I am generally surprised at the ability of spammers to repeat the same post in their own words. I tried to check their posts for plagiarism, and surprisingly, the posts show uniqueness, but the idea and meaning of everything said are repeated in many posts.
Perhaps it was worthwhile to establish a rule that any post whose meaning is no longer new should be deleted. If we complain about positions that are similar in essence and the moderators delete them, it will probably create a task for spammers to think about what they write.

In that case it is the duty of the moderators to detect the threads that have the same content with different ideas and delete them. There are some times people would be saying the same things in different boards unknowingly, and it is the duty of the moderators to delete such posts to stop spamming. For the OP question, it will be hard because most user are using it to add up to their weekly count.

[KingsDen]

A QUALITY  poster posting in page 3000 would still produce a quality post. Mega threads don't breed shit posters or spammers, it only helps to hide them. If signature no longer appear on mega threads, shit posters will have no option than to polute more innocent threads.

There's no how a mega thread would be as decent as a two pages thread, for the love of soccer I visit those mega thread and read, when I see such shit posts I'll just smile and move on because I expect such a thing to happen.

[Welsh]

A QUALITY  poster posting in page 3000 would still produce a quality post. Mega threads don't breed shit posters or spammers, it only helps to hide them. If signature no longer appear on mega threads, shit posters will have no option than to polute more innocent threads.

There's no how a mega thread would be as decent as a two pages thread, for the love of soccer I visit those mega thread and read, when I see such shit posts I'll just smile and move on because I expect such a thing to happen.

I guess it depends on the mega thread. One's like discussing soccer, make a lot of sense. However, there's a bunch of mega threads that are basically obsolete since every single thing that could be discussed have been discussed. Yet, users continue to participate in discussion, mainly the build their post counts. This is most evident in the Altcoin Discussion thread, but it happens else where too.

Limiting signature past the 1000 page probably wouldn't help all that much. I think the solution would be to better moderate these mega threads. Whether that's through increased manpower, community helping out or being a little more restrictive on mega threads. The latter probably being the least ideal solution.

[actmyname]

One's like discussing soccer, make a lot of sense.

Have to love the replies that all go, "[winning team] had an (un)expected victory, the score was ____, the team should keep up their streak, but [losing team] did well/poorly so it was a well-earned victory/predictable"A simple strategy that is no doubt employed by signature spammers is to create a sockpuppet account to frame simple or general questions in a new thread.
This creates a space of available replies considered sufficient substance (i.e. how can answering a Newbie's question be spam?) provided moderation isn't on a thread-wide level. I've seen more than a few examples of low-rank topic creators, and it would be straightforward to simply cycle through a set of basic topics. This is all before considering subsequent alts and of course the genuinely curious new users, who could also unknowingly perpetuate spam threads. Boards of interest include Lending, Scam Accusations, Investor-based games, and Beginners & Help - plenty of typical one-line responses about thread creation or generic tips (collateral, format, ponzi, simple answer respectively).

I wonder if deleted posts should have an additional merit or activity penalty.

[Welsh]

Have to love the replies that all go, "[winning team] had an (un)expected victory, the score was ____, the team should keep up their streak, but [losing team] did well/poorly so it was a well-earned victory/predictable"

Yeah, a lot of that goes on, and we should probably crack down on it a little more. You could probably if really wanted go, and report over a thousand reports a day, just on these types of posts. It's quite clear that some of them have never even watched the football game they're commenting on too, they keep it extremely vague as an attempt to go unnoticed, and I imagine it does actually trick the campaign managers that don't watch the sport either.

I wonder if deleted posts should have an additional merit or activity penalty.

A little bit too heavy handed in my opinion, since pretty much everyone on the forum has had a post deleted at some point, whether it's from breaking the rules or replying to someone that has broken the rules. I think it would be better to implement a shadow ban system or review system is probably the better word for new users. That means we're somewhat introducing a newbie jail again, but it would be far less restrictive. Plus, I think we have the moderators to cope with the current amount of users signing up, and posting to be able to review them in a decent amount of time.

This doesn't fix the existing users talking utter crap in the mega threads, but I think we just might have to pay a lot more attention to this sort of thing, and crack down on it.

[Igebotz]

Limiting signature past the 1000 page probably wouldn't help all that much. I think the solution would be to better moderate these mega threads. Whether that's through increased manpower, community helping out or being a little more restrictive on mega threads. The latter probably being the least ideal solution.

I didn't expect it to completely eliminate or limit spammers, but I did expect it to reduce what we have now. Since you know there's a lot going on behind closed doors, and I know we've discussed it before, I'm curious why the activity of mods on the G, discussion board has decreased.

I wonder if deleted posts should have an additional merit or activity penalty.

What happens to members who delete their post history on a monthly/yearly basis?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Hmm....this actually doesn't sound like a bad idea, and I'm not even sure that if it were to be implemented that people would just start up new threads with the same topic, because if there's already one going with 1000 pages, a new (essentially duplicate) thread could be reported to the mods and nuked. 

Then again, most of us who like reading things on the forum avoid mega spam threads like those in question so I'm not sure how much of a problem they really are.  And although duplicate threads could be avoided, I've no doubt members in bounties/sig campaigns desperate to meet the maximum post count would find a way to do so somehow, and that might present a different problem that's hard to predict exactly.

Good suggestion, OP.  The only problem is that it seems like Theymos isn't listening to proposals from the community all that much.  We did get the "OP" tag, which is probably one of the least useful ones I'd seen in years, but aside from that there haven't been any new methods made available to combat shitposting in a long time.  Keep your fingers crossed, though.

[LoyceV]

I wonder if deleted posts should have an additional merit or activity penalty.

What happens to members who delete their post history on a monthly/yearly basis?

There's already an "Activity penalty" if enough posts get deleted. The next step is a ban. I don't think most spammers care about Merit or Activity anyway. And not all deleted posts are bad, such as scam warnings while waiting for a post to be deleted.

[Welsh]

I'm curious why the activity of mods on the G, discussion board has decreased.

I don't really know the answer to that, but I'd assume it's because the gambling section is covered by global moderators, which probably have a lot of other reports to deal with. Although, I suspect every report is reviewed, it would be nice to have a dedicated moderator that actively participates, and removes the spam as they come across it.

However, it's a absolute huge undertaking to fully moderate the section. You could probably get it to an acceptable level in a few months, but there's so many replies in those megathreads, and if you don't watch the sports, then sometimes you don't know when those users that are basically just putting vague replies out, are doing exactly that. Sometimes you can, but ultimately to be able to catch the majority of them you need to know a little about the sports.

[Peanutswar]

Actually, this kind of thing we called the Mega thread those are the threads above a hundred pages and still, other members keep making a reply some of the campaigns before having the rules to not make a reply or counted posts with these pages above 50+, not an exact amount but the same thing with that, also those threads too which are since a year ago that we called necro bumping, community members keep making a reply and continuously bump those old threads which are already answered.

[hilariousetc]

This would be useless and doesn't tackle the root of the problem. People would just lock the thread and then create a new one once it has hit the 1k pages and lost the signature. It would also be counter-productive on valuable threads that have only lost their signature because of some arbitrary limit. If a thread is useless of spammy then it should be locked or trashed or more importantly if people are being paid en masse to make low quality posts then those campaigns should be punished. I've been saying for years signature campaigns could actually help the quality of discussion if they only paid for good posts but if they're paying for any old shite then of course people will abuse it. Unless you tackle the root of the problem then you're just trying to plug holes on a sinking ship and people will just find a way around some restriction you put upon them.

[Igebotz]

Good suggestion, OP.  The only problem is that it seems like Theymos isn't listening to proposals from the community all that much.  We did get the "OP" tag, which is probably one of the least useful ones I'd seen in years, but aside from that there haven't been any new methods made available to combat shitposting in a long time.  Keep your fingers crossed, though.

I was surprised to see the OP tag implemented a few weeks ago, despite the fact that someone suggested something similar last year and it was not implemented until Pow... provided a patch to support his suggestion. We have been requesting the Nigeria board for almost two years and have received no response from them. It is quite painful how he remains silent on some cases but acts quickly on others. The lack of an African board speaks poorly of this forum, but that's a story for another day. Nigeria is one of the top five countries in terms of bitcoin/crypto adoption, with more than 70 active community members.

I'm curious why the activity of mods on the G, discussion board has decreased.

However, it's a absolute huge undertaking to fully moderate the section. You could probably get it to an acceptable level in a few months, but there's so many replies in those megathreads, and if you don't watch the sports, then sometimes you don't know when those users that are basically just putting vague replies out, are doing exactly that. Sometimes you can, but ultimately to be able to catch the majority of them you need to know a little about the sports.

Cyrus and hilariousandco moderate G. Disscusion, but I doubt Cyrus is as active as hilariousandco, and the G. mod can't handle those bulky reports alone, so I guess that's another reason we have more unhandled cases.

Sometimes I suspect that my unhandled reports are duplicates of other members' reports that were resolved before mine arrived. Is there a way for the system to indicate which post has been reported so that duplicate reports on the same post are avoided?

[Lucius]

Sometimes I suspect that my unhandled reports are duplicates of other members' reports that were resolved before mine arrived. Is there a way for the system to indicate which post has been reported so that duplicate reports on the same post are avoided?

I think that when several members report an identical post and when it is resolved, all reports get the same tag (good/bad) or remain unresolved. I think someone already mentioned this idea to avoid multiple reports on the same posts, but you can never know the exact reason why someone before you reported some post - is it because of spam, referral link/hidden advertising, or something else.

There is also the question of whether such a warning would be publicly visible or would be displayed exclusively in the report window - with the fact that the first would probably be a bad option because anyone who saw that his post was reported could edit or delete it before the moderators did their job.


Regarding your proposal, I would suggest that signatures be automatically turned off on all posts after 5 pages, because that is more than enough to discuss something constructively, and everything after that is just a repetition of the same ideas and attitudes. However, I think that the biggest responsibility lies with the campaign managers who pay for posts in mega threads, and this only motivates spammers to use such an option even more.

[Smartvirus]

I think the poll should have been directed this way...
Which is the more worst?

1. Having these mega threads remain in existence and then we observe what we do observe now or
2. Having the result of the closure of these mega threads only result in the creation of another thread and we would have same content in the new thread.

Apparently, this is what would happen and as such, we've got to decide which one to contend with. Moderation is hard and would come with such load of work in that board but since they are mainly pushed by campaigns, managers would be some great tool.

[actmyname]

There's already an "Activity penalty" if enough posts get deleted. The next step is a ban. I don't think most spammers care about Merit or Activity anyway. And not all deleted posts are bad, such as scam warnings while waiting for a post to be deleted.

Correct, though I'm pointing toward reported offenses that have been deleted. For enough posts to be deleted where someone does get an activity penalty, it would have to include all of their posts within that activity period. An easy workaround is to make a simple post in an off-topic board with a barely-passing reply - it shouldn't be deleted, and reserves activity.There are still dozens of users out there that will consecutively post absolute rubbish one-liners. You don't even have to look for long to have enough reports to take up an hour's worth of time submitting. Bitcointalk is an orchard of low-hanging fruit.

[Rikafip]

However, it's a absolute huge undertaking to fully moderate the section. You could probably get it to an acceptable level in a few months, but there's so many replies in those megathreads, and if you don't watch the sports, then sometimes you don't know when those users that are basically just putting vague replies out, are doing exactly that. Sometimes you can, but ultimately to be able to catch the majority of them you need to know a little about the sports.

Out of curiosity I just checked one forum where I discuss sports (and other things) for the last ~20 years and I counted like dozen moderators (+ few sort of admins) in charge of that section so yeah, having few for the whole gambling board is hardly enough. Another big difference there is that mods moderate specific sports and are usually active in discussions so they can easily spot someone who hasn't any clue what he is talking about. Maybe bitcointalk could benefit from such approach and recruit few more mods from active and reputable members there to clear up that mess.

Regarding your proposal, I would suggest that signatures be automatically turned off on all posts after 5 pages, because that is more than enough to discuss something constructively, and everything after that is just a repetition of the same ideas and attitudes.

That measure would only reduce the amount of posts written in those threads and nothing else, as spammers would easily find the sub-5 pages topics and continue to churn out their spam or they would create new ones. Maybe its just me being used how other forums operate (mods there are less tolerant of duplicate threads) but imho bitcointalk already has way too many topics being opened every single day and any measure that would cause even bigger amount of those is bad in my opinion. Beside that, it would be unfair to penalize posters some topics in gambling board that naturally have a lot of pages.