FTX drama and it’s long term consequences: Bitcoin is a confidence Game.

[taufik123]

Why he can't help FTX then? FTX is a strong centralized exchanges since many people said it's a Binance killer, but when FTX is in crisis of liquidation, Binance didn't do anything and just said they're already tried their best. This mean CZ initiative is just a marketing, he will help a small exchange only and he will not help a big exchange that can beat Binance.

Regarding the cancellation of Binance's acquisition of FTX, CZ explained when attending the B22 Summit 2022 in Bali and was asked about the collapse of FTX and why it didn't help him. Nothing can protect an industry that is played by bad actors, including the crypto industry that is led by bad actors. good at lying.

"To be honest if a man is really good at lying, and he's really good at pretending to be what he's not. The law can't prevent that. But the law can help to reduce [emerging bad actors]," said CZ,

Another reason is that FTX misappropriated customer funds and mishandled it, which is why Binance did not want to acquire FTX.

Actually Binance is encourage their users to leave their coins on Binance, it's what SAFU actually mean. Everyone shouldn't get baited by Binance marketing strategy and must leave coins on hardware wallet.

About Binance Marketing, it is Binance's right, we can only decide whether to use it or not. The most recommended is indeed storage in a hardware wallet. But there's nothing wrong with SAFU funds, they are a safe choice for customer assets.

[DaveF]

What we really need is for somebody to get Bernie Madoffed (yes it's a term now) for a fraud like this and then die in prison. Or at least get a prison term that means they will eventually die there.
Not saying it will fix the problem, people will always want to get some of the 'free money' and there will always be someone there to swindle them. But, without any fear of punishment there is no reason to stop.

Just my view. But, like the Onion headline ChiBitCTy posted, so long as we expect to get scammed and the people scamming us to get away with it, it's going to keep happening.

-Dave

[Gyfts]

https://news.bitcoin.com/kevin-oleary-ftx-collapse-is-a-turning-point-for-the-industry-crypto-bottom-is-in/

Kevin O'Leary, Canadian VC/investor, FTX poster boy, is now calling on the U.S. to regulate crypto industry after his investment into FTX goes up in smoke.

I figured it was only a matter of time for industry regulations were amongst the horizon -- they'll be using a corrupt exchange as an excuse to target bitcoin as if FTX was any different than Lehman Brothers when it collapsed. And ironically, the government interference is what originally incentivized Lehman Brothers to have their mortgage backed securities inflate well beyond what they could handle.

[fillippone]

Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step

I'm not convinced this goes far enough.  Proof of reserves means little without proof of liabilities.  If you don't know what these people are doing with the funds they hold, what their financial obligations and debts are, etc, then there's no guarantee those funds are secure.

Proof of reserves is a first step.
This is a technically possible step that can be done with little development in exchange infrastructure. With publicity auditable results and also reproducible anywhere.
What you are requesting is an accounting auditing. Something is certainly possible and actually done in most of western "regulated" countries.

Of course there's not universal recipe for this, but small incremental steps in the right direction.

[franky1]

the first deceit of "finance"

one thing i keep seeing pop up is how people keep confusing VALUE with VALUATIONS

for instance

FTX had a valuation of ~$32billion.. but. FTX never had ~32billion of cash/assets

the ~32billion valuation was made up by FTX creating shares. and only selling a small percentage of those shares at a price where that price was then used as a multiplier against all combined shares to give a full valuation amount

EG
imagine it was 32billion shares it created but only sold 1 share for $1
instantly where by FTX only ever received just $1 created his company valuation of 32billions shares to be worth $32billion

you see it on TV shows like sharktank /dragons den
where they pitch their business at an ask of: $£100k for 5%

they are only asking for £$100k of actual cash to change hands.. but the judges/investors then scream
"are you really valuing your business at $£2million"

this is the first deceit of "finance"

[fillippone]

Someone would call it a "positive consequence" of this story?

FTX's Fall Will Lift the Next Generation of Bitcoin Maximalists

The new generation of ardent bitcoin maximalists born from FTX’s ashes will, in time, hold their bitcoin keys on their own wallets (perhaps a Trezor or Ledger) and they will not be susceptible to Ponzi schemes propped up by the reputation of whoever the next paper billionaire with his/her own coin.

I have serious doubt about this, as this category of human beings is always present when there's incentives to personal advantage. At least this time everyone has the rules (or the lack of) well clear in mind.

[Darker45]

When everything started, it wasn't about centralized exchanges, lending platforms, investment opportunities, security tokens, lending, and so on and so forth. It was purely about freedom, ownership, peer to peer, transparency, censorship resistance, and so on.

I doubt that we'll ever get away from centralized exchanges. Its becoming part of the crypto ecosystem already wether we like it or not and yeah we stranded far away from original intention of bitcoin being created but its already part of it for now. Most people that get into crypto nowadays dont even know the term of " not your keys, not your coins" anymore

It's just so unfortunate that instead of providing an alternative to the banks and the fiat system, crypto has ended up exactly mimicking the banks and the fiat system. Not only are they centralized, they also demand that personal information be provided. They freeze funds when they are suspicious. They issue nothing but numbers, meaning debts, while the real funds are used and risked somewhere else. They also issue their own coins out of thin air. But the worst part is that people are embracing it.

I can only hope that as soon as the dust settles down, there will be a significant change of behavior in the community, although I have doubts.

The effect is pretty decent though for the community. Abit off topic but imagine what would happen if it was Binance  

If Binance were to crash a week after FTX, there will probably still be a lot of wailing because of lost funds. If Coinbase were to follow a week thereafter, the same thing happens. Well, I guess this is just how we are.

[$anounimus$]

My opinion Probably the biggest thing that came out of this drama is that the FTX hackers are getting a different view of bitcoin.

I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.

[fillippone]

I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.

Nonsense.

The Bitcoin network has been unaffected in al this drama.
Tik tok, another block

Not a single Bitcoin network instance has been hacked. No need to change anything in the protocol or in the Bitcoin implementation.

All the hacking has been done on the Exchange systems that are well outside the Bitcoin Network.
Closest thing it went down it is some wrapped Bitcoin, but the fault is in the “wrap” part, not in the Bitcoin part.

[Beparanf]

I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.

Nonsense.

The Bitcoin network has been unaffected in al this drama.
Tik tok, another block

Not a single Bitcoin network instance has been hacked. No need to change anything in the protocol or in the Bitcoin implementation.

All the hacking has been done on the Exchange systems that are well outside the Bitcoin Network.
Closest thing it went down it is some wrapped Bitcoin, but the fault is in the “wrap” part, not in the Bitcoin part.

This is true, I recently watch Michael Saylor interview in regards with the recent FTX drama. I kinda feel that he is really all this time that Bitcoin is indeed the solution on everything because it is the only currency that is completely decentralized and proven for more than a decade.

This is Saylor statement on his tweet for interview: Satoshi had a beautiful dream of a world where we don’t need to trust banks and store our life’s savings in collapsing fiat currencies. #Bitcoin means you don’t need to trust the FTXs of the world.

https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1592609346277363713?s=20&t=QWeeCsMmiDLyb1zJ0oXJwQ

[wiss19]

This is yet again another moment to go back to basics. We have been doing this a number of times. But since we're always failing to learn lessons, history is bound to repeat and we're once again forced to be reminded of the most fundamental principles of nothing else but Bitcoin.

Yep, and I hate to say it but there's no progress in financial intelligence because each generation has to learn the hard way on its own.  That's why booms and busts keep happening every 10-20 years, over and over again.

Some of the Youtube videos I've been watching are by people in their 20s, and they're talking about things that seem really obvious to me but are apparently new to them.  I'm not blaming any of this crap on the younger generation by any means, but SBF and other big time crypto scammers are all young and obviously ignorant, no matter how wise they've been previously portrayed in the media.

Everything in trading, investment, and finance is a "confidence game".  It always has been, going back to the days of JP Morgan and well beyond that.  Anyone who uses a centralized exchange has to have some sort of confidence in it, regardless of how little.  Anyone who trades with anyone else has to have confidence in their counterparty.  No matter how trustless we'd like things to be, if we're buying or selling bitcoin we've got to have a smidgen of trust somewhere.

This whole thing is ugly to the tenth power.

I do not blame them neither, for example when I was 15 years old, I had absolutely no idea how the world works, and when I was 25 I just barely started to understood, and not even the whole thing, just the basic concept and at 35 I started to understand how it all works but have no idea how to navigate it, yes it's unfair and yes the wealthy have a big advantage, but what could I do to overcome that? I have no idea, I just know the problem and I lack the solution and I feel like crypto could be it.

Considering all of this, the generation Z doesn't feel too far behind, in fact a lot of them know much more than I did back that age, and some of them even know better than I do now, so I feel like it’s just a cycle.

[Yatsan]

I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.

Nonsense.

The Bitcoin network has been unaffected in al this drama.
Tik tok, another block

Not a single Bitcoin network instance has been hacked. No need to change anything in the protocol or in the Bitcoin implementation.

All the hacking has been done on the Exchange systems that are well outside the Bitcoin Network.
Closest thing it went down it is some wrapped Bitcoin, but the fault is in the “wrap” part, not in the Bitcoin part.

It became a drama simply because people romantacize it and allowed it to manifest. Just because an exchanger is down, they concluded that this industry would as well fall. Cryptocurrencies in the first place are separated from exchanges. It is just that exchanges became the bridge between cryptocurrencies and fiat currency; that's the only link. This simply happens because people invest into something in which they lack knowledge about; tend to panic whenever there's a problem but never tried understanding why such thing occured. If investors nowadays in this industry are knowledgeable enough of problematic tendencies, there is even a chance for the market price to not be affected simply because people won't care and sell out of panic.

[fillippone]

[
It became a drame simply because people romantacize it and allowed it to manifest. Just because an exchanger is down, they concluded that this industry would as well fall. Cryptocurrencies in the first place are separated from exchanges. It is just that exchanges became the bridge between cryptocurrencies and fiat currency; that's the only link. This simply happens because people invest into something in which they lack knowledge about; tend to panic whenever there's a problem but never tried understanding why such thing occured. If investors nowadays in this industry are knowledgeable enough of problematic tendencies, there is even a chance for the market price to not be affected simply because people won't care and sell out of panic.

I think it is more than that.
ASI. Said in the OP, I am afraid we will now have a “before FTX” and an “after FTX”. This is because of the sheer size of this exchange and above all for the huge amount of money it poured in the industry.

A lot of actors will have to adjust their expectation regarding the way they approach to crypto’s.
And when I say crypto, I do include Bitcoin, as per the Pompliano letter in the OP.

My feeling is that the long ripple of these events will be long felt in the industry.

[DooMAD]

Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step

I'm not convinced this goes far enough.  Proof of reserves means little without proof of liabilities.  If you don't know what these people are doing with the funds they hold, what their financial obligations and debts are, etc, then there's no guarantee those funds are secure.

Proof of reserves is a first step.
This is a technically possible step that can be done with little development in exchange infrastructure. With publicity auditable results and also reproducible anywhere.
What you are requesting is an accounting auditing. Something is certainly possible and actually done in most of western "regulated" countries.

Of course there's not universal recipe for this, but small incremental steps in the right direction.

My concern is that some exchanges are going to claim "We don't need an independent audit, we have cryptographic proof of reserves".  If that starts to occur, then it's very much a step in the wrong direction.  I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I can see it happening. 

Call me suspicious, but I'm convinced it's just another way to obfuscate illicit activities behind the pretense of legitimacy.  Exchanges seem way too eager to implement this and I think we should all be pausing to wonder why that might be.

[abel1337]

Many exchanges have already said are going to significantly improving their operations and transparency adding proof of reserves, as a first step

I'm not convinced this goes far enough.  Proof of reserves means little without proof of liabilities.  If you don't know what these people are doing with the funds they hold, what their financial obligations and debts are, etc, then there's no guarantee those funds are secure.

Proof of reserves is a first step.
This is a technically possible step that can be done with little development in exchange infrastructure. With publicity auditable results and also reproducible anywhere.
What you are requesting is an accounting auditing. Something is certainly possible and actually done in most of western "regulated" countries.

Of course there's not universal recipe for this, but small incremental steps in the right direction.

My concern is that some exchanges are going to claim "We don't need an independent audit, we have cryptographic proof of reserves".  If that starts to occur, then it's very much a step in the wrong direction.  I really hope I'm wrong on this, but I can see it happening. 

Call me suspicious, but I'm convinced it's just another way to obfuscate illicit activities behind the pretense of legitimacy.  Exchanges seem way too eager to implement this and I think we should all be pausing to wonder why that might be.

Yep the possibility of that scenario is highly probable. In the near future, People will demand more information from the exchanges knowing that there will be a certain distrust on exchanges given on what is happening currently and also in the future. Binance is one of the top exchanges right now and they are one of the first who volunteer to show their proof of reserves and I believe to likely to agree on an independent audit given that they have a reputation to hold on. Refusing to make a independent audit for them is a really bad move because it can instantly make speculations against them and it would be on their bad side. Sooner or later, I hope that proof of reserves will be standard and auditing it should be part of it.

[Flexystar]

Developers: instead of focusing on the development of the intellectually rewarding projects (namely: Bitcoin and Bitcoin related Technologies) , they indulged financially regarding projects. Hopefully many dubious project in this sphere will see a drain in funding over the coming months

They are the craziest one! If you see the developments after 2015-16 then we can see how there is sudden up surge in the ICO’s for versatile ideas and how millions of dollars were being raised during the pre sales and post sales.

The role of Developers in this? Well they knew that blockchain is comparatively new and it’s applications are vast subject. They started to put finger on everything they saw and converted them into blockchain project. They however never kept the ideas for long, just coded the basics, few algorithms which would work for initia processes and boom everyone started to think that it’s something unique and it’s going to be astounding project in the future.

However the end of the story? Failed roadmaps, abandoned projects and zero volume in the market.

Developers did not stop there, they started one project after another and still looting the market in the name of advancements, blockchain usage and futuristic agendas. All in vain.

[coupable]

Bitcoin is a safe haven. It was designed to be. All the recent facts prove it, including the opinions of experts.
But it is worth remembering that there are many similar experiences that have proven their effectiveness over the years. It may not have had enough updates due to the lack of demand for its use compared to Bitcoin, but many of them have proven to be highly efficient. Currencies such as Monero and Green have proven their effectiveness and ability to provide a good amount of security and decentralization, comparable to Bitcoin, or perhaps in many cases exceeding it.

[Gayong88]

What caused the FTX drama? Everyone will have their own opinion but I don't think anyone could come close to the truth. The consequences remain to be seen, namely the value is subjective and determined by the market. Will there be a serious attack on Bitcoin? I highly doubt it. What is certain is that trust in Bitcoin and by implication trust in cryptocurrencies has taken a huge hit at the moment.

[wiss19]

I think the time has come to put “bitcoin as magic internet money” behind us, build proper cryptographic security apart from fiat currency, improve consensus protocols so we can scale to handle VISA and MasterCard transaction volumes. increasing the resilience of the network for adoption as most people are not sophisticated enough for escrow and multisig and making derivatives easier as contracts can be automatically tied to a reliable BTC/USD price, which never will in the future.

Nonsense.

The Bitcoin network has been unaffected in al this drama.
Tik tok, another block

Not a single Bitcoin network instance has been hacked. No need to change anything in the protocol or in the Bitcoin implementation.

All the hacking has been done on the Exchange systems that are well outside the Bitcoin Network.
Closest thing it went down it is some wrapped Bitcoin, but the fault is in the “wrap” part, not in the Bitcoin part.

That is what people say when bitcoin is decentralized and for some reason many do not understand it. A lot of people go "well it's centralized when Elon says something it goes up or down!" or they say "if it's decentralized then how come exchanges have billions of it!" or something like that.

They mistake the decentralization of the bitcoin itself, with the centralization possibility of the price, and yes the price can't be decentralized, but the coin itself has always been like that, and safe and secure and not a single problem has ever occurred in its history ever. That should be proper reason to buy as many as you can, and store it in a safe place and you should be safe from all this drama.

[Bitstar_coin]

"How many times do you have to be reminded doing a good risk assessment," I think as many times as it takes, it appears many people don't take into account the risk assessment of their investment because if they do - fewer people will have funds in a centralized exchange.
Most of these exchanges are reckless and users help them by leaving their funds in the exchange until investors began to understand the consequences of their actions this type of situation will keep happening.
As long as you hold your btc in your personal wallet, you will be far from all these exchange shenanigans.