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Author Topic: Staff from PBC suggests taking control of bitcoin network.  (Read 9573 times)
kokojie
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December 12, 2011, 03:57:03 PM
 #101

They need less than 20,000 rigs to do that, which cost $20 million dollars. Chinese government's annual tax receipt is $1.5 trillion dollars

I'd like to see them try. They'd need a lot of computers to do that.


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chickenado
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December 12, 2011, 06:42:16 PM
 #102

1.Government and central bank should face up to the existence of Bitcoin,
take control of most bitcoins by using the computing power of supercomputers all over the country.

It is impossible to "take control of most bitcoins" using computing power alone.

Most bitcoins are in cold storage.  A double spending attack would affect only a small fraction of bitcoins, or it would destroy the current block chain altogether if it persisted for long enough. In which case you are talking about outright destruction, not "facing up to existence".

Either these people failed to RTMF, or this is a bad translation, or it's a fake.
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December 12, 2011, 06:59:41 PM
 #103

If China wanted to destroy bitcoin I think they could do it. Yes, they have that much juice.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
tvbcof
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December 12, 2011, 07:34:33 PM
 #104

If China wanted to destroy bitcoin I think they could do it. Yes, they have that much juice.

It looks to me like the Chinese authorities have destroyed Bitcoin (in China) before it was invented.  Seems that fewer than one in a million souls in that country have the combination of capability and mindset to employ the solution.

One Chinese I know fairly well is vehemently and viscerally opposed to Bitcoin on principle and steadfastly refuses to learn or understand anything about it.  I have to hypothesis that whatever factors effect her perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the rest of the population.


JohnOliver
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December 12, 2011, 09:12:08 PM
 #105

1.Government and central bank should face up to the existence of Bitcoin,
take control of most bitcoins by using the computing power of supercomputers all over the country.

It is impossible to "take control of most bitcoins" using computing power alone.

Most bitcoins are in cold storage.  A double spending attack would affect only a small fraction of bitcoins, or it would destroy the current block chain altogether if it persisted for long enough. In which case you are talking about outright destruction, not "facing up to existence".

Either these people failed to RTMF, or this is a bad translation, or it's a fake.

He's probably talking about using the Chinese supercomputers to mine a majority of the 16.13 million remaining bitcoins.
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December 12, 2011, 09:15:16 PM
 #106

1.Government and central bank should face up to the existence of Bitcoin,
take control of most bitcoins by using the computing power of supercomputers all over the country.

It is impossible to "take control of most bitcoins" using computing power alone.

Most bitcoins are in cold storage.  A double spending attack would affect only a small fraction of bitcoins, or it would destroy the current block chain altogether if it persisted for long enough. In which case you are talking about outright destruction, not "facing up to existence".

Either these people failed to RTMF, or this is a bad translation, or it's a fake.

He's probably talking about using the Chinese supercomputers to mine a majority of the 16.13 million remaining bitcoins.

Which would be marvelous. The price increase would be exponential. I find myself liking our Chinese overlords more and more.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
RodeoX
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December 12, 2011, 09:24:51 PM
 #107

What good would bitcoin be if it were being manipulated by the Chinese government? I think I would sell off at that point. To me that is a fatal flaw. It completely undermines bitcoins strengths.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
Harvey
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December 12, 2011, 09:30:00 PM
 #108

What good would bitcoin be if it were being manipulated by the Chinese government? I think I would sell off at that point. To me that is a fatal flaw. It completely undermines bitcoins strengths.

Heh. Only the means turn you away, you racist. You don't like those filthy Chinese touching your coins? I kid, I kid.

The fact is if China tackles the market, so will many other governments. If the incentive exists for the largest sovereign government to manipulate the currency, it won't be alone.

The rational way to see this is only as mere demand. Governments are just another Bitcoin customer. They just have guns to extort more funds. Dangerous in ways but have faith that competition will keep them in check: China doesn't own the world.

Nobody is conquering the Bitcoin network. It shall remain sovereign as always because everybody is going to want to have a stake in it.

Your choice in Bitcoin suppliers and supporters shall remain and your coins will only be found more valuable. The fantasy we are portraying here can only be good fortune.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
beckspace
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December 12, 2011, 10:18:05 PM
 #109

He's probably talking about using the Chinese supercomputers to mine a majority of the 16.13 million remaining bitcoins.

And the majority of the fees for the remaining history.

You guys have really come up with somethin'
Harvey
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December 12, 2011, 10:31:14 PM
 #110

He's probably talking about using the Chinese supercomputers to mine a majority of the 16.13 million remaining bitcoins.

And the majority of the fees for the remaining history.
If people desire Bitcoins from the Chinese entirely. I am sure people will happily for service elsewhere, if they so desire it.

Again, there is little to be afraid of here. You people are scared of centralization but there is none to be had. It's not the amount of money nor fees that is relevant but the means that distribute them. The means remain sound and sovereign.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
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December 12, 2011, 10:35:18 PM
 #111

1.Government and central bank should face up to the existence of Bitcoin,
take control of most bitcoins by using the computing power of supercomputers all over the country.

It is impossible to "take control of most bitcoins" using computing power alone.

Most bitcoins are in cold storage.  A double spending attack would affect only a small fraction of bitcoins, or it would destroy the current block chain altogether if it persisted for long enough. In which case you are talking about outright destruction, not "facing up to existence".

Either these people failed to RTMF, or this is a bad translation, or it's a fake.

He's probably talking about using the Chinese supercomputers to mine a majority of the 16.13 million remaining bitcoins.

Which would be marvelous. The price increase would be exponential. I find myself liking our Chinese overlords more and more.

How would adding mining power increase the price?

You're probably thinking of the other attack: buying up coins regardless of the cost. That would make the majority of this forum millionaires  Grin Grin Grin
chickenado
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December 12, 2011, 10:36:27 PM
 #112

What good would bitcoin be if it were being manipulated by the Chinese government? I think I would sell off at that point. To me that is a fatal flaw. It completely undermines bitcoins strengths.

Gold is manipulated by the Chinese government. Are you selling yours?
Harvey
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December 12, 2011, 10:37:15 PM
 #113

1.Government and central bank should face up to the existence of Bitcoin,
take control of most bitcoins by using the computing power of supercomputers all over the country.

It is impossible to "take control of most bitcoins" using computing power alone.

Most bitcoins are in cold storage.  A double spending attack would affect only a small fraction of bitcoins, or it would destroy the current block chain altogether if it persisted for long enough. In which case you are talking about outright destruction, not "facing up to existence".

Either these people failed to RTMF, or this is a bad translation, or it's a fake.

He's probably talking about using the Chinese supercomputers to mine a majority of the 16.13 million remaining bitcoins.

Which would be marvelous. The price increase would be exponential. I find myself liking our Chinese overlords more and more.

How would adding mining power increase the price?

You're probably thinking of the other attack: buying up coins regardless of the cost. That would make the majority of this forum millionaires  Grin Grin Grin

Heh, mining equates to bitcoin payouts. If governments begin earning the majority of the Bitcoins, they'll have the means to sell them for high prices. It would be a good return for the taxpayers to say the least -- on a societal level.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
cunicula
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December 13, 2011, 01:12:05 AM
 #114

If China wanted to destroy bitcoin I think they could do it. Yes, they have that much juice.

One Chinese I know fairly well is vehemently and viscerally opposed to Bitcoin on principle and steadfastly refuses to learn or understand anything about it.  I have to hypothesis that whatever factors effect her perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the rest of the population.



There is this black guy I know who is quite violent. I have to hypothesize that whatever factors affect his perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the race.

Asshats. Shameless libertarian asshats.


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December 13, 2011, 01:49:47 AM
 #115

If China wanted to destroy bitcoin I think they could do it. Yes, they have that much juice.

One Chinese I know fairly well is vehemently and viscerally opposed to Bitcoin on principle and steadfastly refuses to learn or understand anything about it.  I have to hypothesis that whatever factors effect her perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the rest of the population.


There is this black guy I know who is quite violent. I have to hypothesize that whatever factors affect his perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the race.

Asshats. Shameless libertarian asshats.


If there were one non-violent African to every million violent Africans, I might entertain your hypothesis.  Or at least seek some explanation (and without feeling a lot of guilt in doing so.)

I await your hypothesis about why so few Chinese, as a percentage of the population of the country, seem to have an interest in Bitcoin.  Perhaps it is simply their low inflation rate and general satisfaction with the leadership's stewardship of the economy that makes them highly ambivalent to non state sponsored alternatives.  You think?


Harvey
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December 13, 2011, 03:18:27 AM
 #116

If China wanted to destroy bitcoin I think they could do it. Yes, they have that much juice.

One Chinese I know fairly well is vehemently and viscerally opposed to Bitcoin on principle and steadfastly refuses to learn or understand anything about it.  I have to hypothesis that whatever factors effect her perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the rest of the population.



There is this black guy I know who is quite violent. I have to hypothesize that whatever factors affect his perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the race.

Asshats. Shameless libertarian asshats.

At least he didn't generalize the whole human race and claim to know how to care for everyone. There's no bigotry greater than that.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
HorseRider
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December 13, 2011, 03:26:03 AM
 #117

People's bank of China don't even buy very much gold, so that they will buy in bitcoin.

16SvwJtQET7mkHZFFbJpgPaDA1Pxtmbm5P
cunicula
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December 13, 2011, 04:24:41 AM
 #118

If China wanted to destroy bitcoin I think they could do it. Yes, they have that much juice.

One Chinese I know fairly well is vehemently and viscerally opposed to Bitcoin on principle and steadfastly refuses to learn or understand anything about it.  I have to hypothesis that whatever factors effect her perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the rest of the population.


There is this black guy I know who is quite violent. I have to hypothesize that whatever factors affect his perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the race.

Asshats. Shameless libertarian asshats.


If there were one non-violent African to every million violent Africans, I might entertain your hypothesis.  Or at least seek some explanation (and without feeling a lot of guilt in doing so.)

I await your hypothesis about why so few Chinese, as a percentage of the population of the country, seem to have an interest in Bitcoin.  Perhaps it is simply their low inflation rate and general satisfaction with the leadership's stewardship of the economy that makes them highly ambivalent to non state sponsored alternatives.  You think?



Do you know how to use the Chinese internet? Why not? Or surprise me with some cool links.

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        AltCoinInternalExperts                Get Your Altcoin Promoted On Social Media       
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tvbcof
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December 13, 2011, 05:06:55 AM
 #119

If China wanted to destroy bitcoin I think they could do it. Yes, they have that much juice.

One Chinese I know fairly well is vehemently and viscerally opposed to Bitcoin on principle and steadfastly refuses to learn or understand anything about it.  I have to hypothesis that whatever factors effect her perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the rest of the population.


There is this black guy I know who is quite violent. I have to hypothesize that whatever factors affect his perception are at play with a healthy percentage of the race.

Asshats. Shameless libertarian asshats.


If there were one non-violent African to every million violent Africans, I might entertain your hypothesis.  Or at least seek some explanation (and without feeling a lot of guilt in doing so.)

I await your hypothesis about why so few Chinese, as a percentage of the population of the country, seem to have an interest in Bitcoin.  Perhaps it is simply their low inflation rate and general satisfaction with the leadership's stewardship of the economy that makes them highly ambivalent to non state sponsored alternatives.  You think?

Do you know how to use the Chinese internet? Why not?

"The Chinese internet"?  The ghost of Ted Stevens lives on!

Or surprise me with some cool links.

  http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/

I'll surprise you with some cool math to boot:

10,000 / 300,000,000 = .0033 %

500 / 1,000,000,000 = .00005%

.0033 / .00005 = 66

So Americans appear to be around 50 times more likely to have Bitcoin clients running than Chinese.

Now why don't you (finally) surprise me with a hypothesis.  There is no requirement for it to have any basis in truth.  It's just an idea which could play a part in explaining the phenomenon and which can be tested against various observations that come up.  There are a multitude of them.


CIYAM
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December 13, 2011, 05:16:28 AM
 #120

Some reasons to consider:

1) More than 50% of Chinese (who live in the countryside) do not have regular (or often any) internet access.

2) You can buy things on Taobao (the Chinese equivalent of eBay) with zero payment processing charges.

3) The RMB is appreciating and has been a stable currency for many years.


Cheers,

Ian.

With CIYAM anyone can create 100% generated C++ web applications in literally minutes.

GPG Public Key | 1ciyam3htJit1feGa26p2wQ4aw6KFTejU
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