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Author Topic: Staff from PBC suggests taking control of bitcoin network.  (Read 9582 times)
ineededausername
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December 11, 2011, 04:03:50 AM
 #21

Notice: "deal with it proactively" in the original Chinese: "出击."

出击 means "attack," according to Google Translate.

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December 11, 2011, 04:11:19 AM
 #22

Very well researched paper for an outsider but he made 2 obvious mistakes:
1. He repeated stressed that Bitcoins offers total anonymity and is completely untraceable.
2. Failed to mention GPU mining and failed to realize that CPU mining, even with super computers, is not cost-effective.

It's clear that he has a good grasp of the economics behind Bitcoins, but he has little technical background.  
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December 11, 2011, 04:14:09 AM
 #23

The article was published in some lowly credit card journal. It is not like the people's daily. This is just the view of a staffer at the Nanjing branch of the PBC. It is extremely unlikely to lead to concrete action.
As for the translation, 'attack' is more correct than 'deal with it proactively'.

Reading more of the article. The author seems to suggest co-opting the technology rather than destroying it. Goals are for China to control most computing power and to create a bitcoin bank which 'deanonymizes'  the technology. Maybe the bank idea is to register all public keys with personal data, it is not laid out explicitly. The author proposes that governments issue bitcoin rather than permit anonymous entities to do so.

Sounds great! This is what I would do if I was a government.

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ineededausername
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December 11, 2011, 04:16:18 AM
 #24

btw everyone, the title is "Bitcoin is potentially a great challenge to the US dollar," or something like that.

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December 11, 2011, 04:16:25 AM
 #25

The article was published in some lowly credit card journal. It is not like the people's daily. This is just the view of a staffer at the Nanjing branch of the PBC. It is extremely unlikely to lead to concrete action.
As for the translation, 'attack' is more correct than 'deal with it proactively'.

Reading more of the article. The author seems to suggest co-opting the technology rather than destroying it. Goals are for China to control most computing power and to create a bitcoin bank which 'deanonymizes'  the technology. Maybe the bank idea is to register all public keys with personal data, it is not laid out explicitly. The author proposes that governments issue bitcoin rather than permit anonymous entities to do so.

Sounds great! This is what I would do if I was a government.

What makes a government so wise and virtuous enough to be the only issuer of a currency?  What is wrong with anonymity?

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
ineededausername
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December 11, 2011, 04:17:42 AM
 #26

The article was published in some lowly credit card journal. It is not like the people's daily. This is just the view of a staffer at the Nanjing branch of the PBC. It is extremely unlikely to lead to concrete action.
As for the translation, 'attack' is more correct than 'deal with it proactively'.

Reading more of the article. The author seems to suggest co-opting the technology rather than destroying it. Goals are for China to control most computing power and to create a bitcoin bank which 'deanonymizes'  the technology. Maybe the bank idea is to register all public keys with personal data, it is not laid out explicitly. The author proposes that governments issue bitcoin rather than permit anonymous entities to do so.

Sounds great! This is what I would do if I was a government.

What makes a government so wise and virtuous enough to be the only issuer of a currency?  What is wrong with anonymity?

Doesn't really matter... the PBC does what it wants.

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December 11, 2011, 04:18:13 AM
 #27

The article was published in some lowly credit card journal. It is not like the people's daily. This is just the view of a staffer at the Nanjing branch of the PBC. It is extremely unlikely to lead to concrete action.
As for the translation, 'attack' is more correct than 'deal with it proactively'.

Reading more of the article. The author seems to suggest co-opting the technology rather than destroying it. Goals are for China to control most computing power and to create a bitcoin bank which 'deanonymizes'  the technology. Maybe the bank idea is to register all public keys with personal data, it is not laid out explicitly. The author proposes that governments issue bitcoin rather than permit anonymous entities to do so.

Sounds great! This is what I would do if I was a government.

What makes a government so wise and virtuous enough to be the only issuer of a currency?  What is wrong with anonymity?

Doesn't really matter... the PBC does what it wants.
Yes, yes. I just want to know what is going in the head of this guy.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
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December 11, 2011, 04:18:43 AM
 #28

The article was published in some lowly credit card journal. It is not like the people's daily. This is just the view of a staffer at the Nanjing branch of the PBC. It is extremely unlikely to lead to concrete action.
As for the translation, 'attack' is more correct than 'deal with it proactively'.

Reading more of the article. The author seems to suggest co-opting the technology rather than destroying it. Goals are for China to control most computing power and to create a bitcoin bank which 'deanonymizes'  the technology. Maybe the bank idea is to register all public keys with personal data, it is not laid out explicitly. The author proposes that governments issue bitcoin rather than permit anonymous entities to do so.

Sounds great! This is what I would do if I was a government.

What makes a government so wise and virtuous enough to be the only issuer of a currency?  What is wrong with anonymity?

Who said wise or virtuous? I'm just talking about self-interest. I prefer the co-opt choice to the destroy choice. I was pretty sure that they would go with destroy. It's great that they didn't. Especially given that trading bitcoin for cash or physical goods is already illegal in China.

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December 11, 2011, 04:20:05 AM
 #29

Let's put this in clearer English!  I hate it when google translate's crappy output makes me read more slowly. Tongue

Section 6. Recommendations
1. The government and central bank should acknowledge the existence of Bitcoin and deal with it proactively.  Using the top-notch supercomputers at its disposal and using state power to ensure a monopoly on mining power, the central bank could acquire the vast majority of bitcoins.
2. The central bank should set up a Bitcoin bank and an official Bitcoin exchange and become the middleman in Chinese Bitcoin transactions to eliminate Bitcoin's relative anonymity and ensure that Bitcoin commerce can be regulated.
3. The government should push for international acceptance of a Bitcoin-backed currency, establishing a non-sovereign monetary system, to challenge the supremacy of the US dollar and to make the international financial system more harmonious and stable.

Thanks for the clarification.

So they want to become the largest miner and control the bitcoin exchange/banking industry within China to deanonymize it.  This precedent may be followed by other countries, and we'll quickly come to a vastly more traceable system than we have today.  Sure, current bitcoiners all get rich, but the governments won't hurt one bit.  Yes, there will be winners and losers in the bitrush, but in the end we've just delivered them exactly what they've been looking for.  They just don't know it yet.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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December 11, 2011, 04:21:23 AM
 #30

Let's put this in clearer English!  I hate it when google translate's crappy output makes me read more slowly. Tongue

Section 6. Recommendations
1. The government and central bank should acknowledge the existence of Bitcoin and deal with it proactively.  Using the top-notch supercomputers at its disposal and using state power to ensure a monopoly on mining power, the central bank could acquire the vast majority of bitcoins.
2. The central bank should set up a Bitcoin bank and an official Bitcoin exchange and become the middleman in Chinese Bitcoin transactions to eliminate Bitcoin's relative anonymity and ensure that Bitcoin commerce can be regulated.
3. The government should push for international acceptance of a Bitcoin-backed currency, establishing a non-sovereign monetary system, to challenge the supremacy of the US dollar and to make the international financial system more harmonious and stable.

Thanks for the clarification.

So they want to become the largest miner and control the bitcoin exchange/banking industry within China to deanonymize it.  This precedent may be followed by other countries, and we'll quickly come to a vastly more traceable system than we have today.  Sure, current bitcoiners all get rich, but the governments won't hurt one bit.  Yes, there will be winners and losers in the bitrush, but in the end we've just delivered them exactly what they've been looking for.  They just don't know it yet.

They could offer us only a fraction of our holdings for *registered* versions.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
ineededausername
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December 11, 2011, 04:22:40 AM
 #31

Let's put this in clearer English!  I hate it when google translate's crappy output makes me read more slowly. Tongue

Section 6. Recommendations
1. The government and central bank should acknowledge the existence of Bitcoin and deal with it proactively.  Using the top-notch supercomputers at its disposal and using state power to ensure a monopoly on mining power, the central bank could acquire the vast majority of bitcoins.
2. The central bank should set up a Bitcoin bank and an official Bitcoin exchange and become the middleman in Chinese Bitcoin transactions to eliminate Bitcoin's relative anonymity and ensure that Bitcoin commerce can be regulated.
3. The government should push for international acceptance of a Bitcoin-backed currency, establishing a non-sovereign monetary system, to challenge the supremacy of the US dollar and to make the international financial system more harmonious and stable.

Thanks for the clarification.

So they want to become the largest miner and control the bitcoin exchange/banking industry within China to deanonymize it.  This precedent may be followed by other countries, and we'll quickly come to a vastly more traceable system than we have today.  Sure, current bitcoiners all get rich, but the governments won't hurt one bit.  Yes, there will be winners and losers in the bitrush, but in the end we've just delivered them exactly what they've been looking for.  They just don't know it yet.

They could offer us only a fraction of our holdings for *registered* versions.

Yeah, with all that mining power, they could do anything to us.

(BFL)^2 < 0
cunicula
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December 11, 2011, 04:23:11 AM
 #32

Let's put this in clearer English!  I hate it when google translate's crappy output makes me read more slowly. Tongue

Section 6. Recommendations
1. The government and central bank should acknowledge the existence of Bitcoin and deal with it proactively.  Using the top-notch supercomputers at its disposal and using state power to ensure a monopoly on mining power, the central bank could acquire the vast majority of bitcoins.
2. The central bank should set up a Bitcoin bank and an official Bitcoin exchange and become the middleman in Chinese Bitcoin transactions to eliminate Bitcoin's relative anonymity and ensure that Bitcoin commerce can be regulated.
3. The government should push for international acceptance of a Bitcoin-backed currency, establishing a non-sovereign monetary system, to challenge the supremacy of the US dollar and to make the international financial system more harmonious and stable.

Thanks for the clarification.

So they want to become the largest miner and control the bitcoin exchange/banking industry within China to deanonymize it.  This precedent may be followed by other countries, and we'll quickly come to a vastly more traceable system than we have today.  Sure, current bitcoiners all get rich, but the governments won't hurt one bit.  Yes, there will be winners and losers in the bitrush, but in the end we've just delivered them exactly what they've been looking for.  They just don't know it yet.

Yes, this is what I mean by great. However, remember, this is just a lowly credit card journal article by a lowly Nanjing bank staffer. It should not be used to predict real world events. The article is from october and we haven't heard anything more.

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December 11, 2011, 05:45:14 AM
 #33

Let's put this in clearer English!  I hate it when google translate's crappy output makes me read more slowly. Tongue

Section 6. Recommendations
1. The government and central bank should acknowledge the existence of Bitcoin and deal with it proactively.  Using the top-notch supercomputers at its disposal and using state power to ensure a monopoly on mining power, the central bank could acquire the vast majority of bitcoins.
2. The central bank should set up a Bitcoin bank and an official Bitcoin exchange and become the middleman in Chinese Bitcoin transactions to eliminate Bitcoin's relative anonymity and ensure that Bitcoin commerce can be regulated.
3. The government should push for international acceptance of a Bitcoin-backed currency, establishing a non-sovereign monetary system, to challenge the supremacy of the US dollar and to make the international financial system more harmonious and stable.

Thanks for the clarification.

So they want to become the largest miner and control the bitcoin exchange/banking industry within China to deanonymize it.  This precedent may be followed by other countries, and we'll quickly come to a vastly more traceable system than we have today.  Sure, current bitcoiners all get rich, but the governments won't hurt one bit.  Yes, there will be winners and losers in the bitrush, but in the end we've just delivered them exactly what they've been looking for.  They just don't know it yet.

Yes, this is what I mean by great. However, remember, this is just a lowly credit card journal article by a lowly Nanjing bank staffer. It should not be used to predict real world events. The article is from october and we haven't heard anything more.

If a lowly bank staffer is thinking about it, I can only imagine the thoughts higher up.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
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December 11, 2011, 05:50:18 AM
 #34

As with any monetary system, greed, false authority and abuse are encouraged. Luckily, bitcoin makes it more difficult to perform, but the incentive is there.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
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December 11, 2011, 06:54:53 AM
 #35

Why all the gloom and doom. Bitcoin will only get stronger the more it is promoted even by a "evil" government such as the Chinese is.  This could be the catalyst that puts the US behind.  Besides the few ramblings of some ludacris reps 6 months ago, there has been absolutely no talk of Bitcoin regarding US economy with in the current government reps. They should be looking how this plays within our current economy before China gets the drop on us again.  China:Stealing US/World's technology since 1976 and proud of it!

Hello There!
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December 11, 2011, 07:56:35 AM
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Section 6. Recommendations
1. The government and central bank should acknowledge the existence of Bitcoin and deal with it proactively.  Using the top-notch supercomputers at its disposal and using state power to ensure a monopoly on mining power, the central bank could acquire the vast majority of bitcoins.
2. The central bank should set up a Bitcoin bank and an official Bitcoin exchange and become the middleman in Chinese Bitcoin transactions to eliminate Bitcoin's relative anonymity and ensure that Bitcoin commerce can be regulated.
3. The government should push for international acceptance of a Bitcoin-backed currency, establishing a non-sovereign monetary system, to challenge the supremacy of the US dollar and to make the international financial system more harmonious and stable.

Delusional rantings of communists don't concern me.  They think they can control it like they think they control everything else.  Yawn...

"It is, quite honestly, the biggest challenge to central banking since Andrew Jackson." -evoorhees
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December 11, 2011, 08:09:39 AM
 #37

Wow, this is really interesting.
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December 11, 2011, 09:00:33 AM
 #38

If a lowly bank staffer is thinking about it, I can only imagine the thoughts higher up.

I think about unspeakable things at work, so I can only imagine the thoughts my boss has. Oh wait, that doesn't really follow at all Smiley

For all we know this guy could be trying to increase awareness of bitcoin and all his colleagues think he's crazy for thinking it's viable, or his article could be indicative of broader interest on the part of PBC as a whole. We don't have much information, so I wouldn't bother speculating much about things like that.
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December 11, 2011, 09:15:19 AM
 #39

Why not have someone who speaks this language really well contact the guy and find out more?

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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December 11, 2011, 09:17:58 AM
 #40

What was the context of the statement? Is that their official website?

It's a paper from <<Chinese Credit Card>> magzine,
the author is working for PBC,  low-level class officer.



http://www.cnki.com.cn/Article/CJFDTotal-XYKZ201110018.htm



@harvey

Yes, context is similar to taking paper from Microsoft Research as official statement of Microsoft's interest in bitcoin. Go ahead and tweet out a distorted news item though.
Propagating false messages is much easier when the source material is Chinese. Any trumped up story you come up with might be picked up and re-reported elsewhere.

Regarding contacting the guy, here is some info. Couldn't find telephone or email, but maybe someone else can.

Name: 洪蜀宁 Hong Shuning
Address: 中國人民銀行,南京分行,營業管理部,南京,210001 People's Bank of China, Nanjing Branch, Operations and Management, Nanjing, Postal Code 210001


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