Write a song with your seed phrase

[Asiska02]

This might be a pretty effective technique to retain it in your memory, however I think memory lapses occasionally, and if that happens, I suppose your seed phrase is lost. There's a good chance you'll forget it in 3-6 months if you don't sing it frequently because you don't get to sing it constantly in your mind because it is not necessary.

The lack of rhymes in the seed phrase you use to put it together is another example that comes from memorizing this in the brain. The sentences could not fit together to create a musical rhyme that the brain can grasp. As a result, some pronouns or words will be added, which could cause the seed phrase to completely change and include a term that wasn't originally there.

[BTCapsule]

What are the disadvantages of memorizing your seed phrase?

You rely on human brain and memory, both of which are proven improper for this job. There have been countless of incidents of people who just forgot a few words, or the order of the words years later, and got locked off their wallet. It gives you a false sense of security. You should better find a secure alternative.

Yes, I understand why relying on memory is a terrible idea, but I’m not suggesting that you rely on this technique; just that it could help people remember in case they lose their physical copies. It seems if you lose your physical copies, and also forget the lyrics to the song you wrote, then you’re in no worse position than if you lose your physical copies and never attempted to memorize your seed phrase.

[BTCapsule]

It is not a bad idea as this is a very old trick used to remember all kind of information that people have known for a very long time, but it should not replace traditional backups and at best it should be used as a last resort.

Well, it could be. Obviously, users here have already mentioned the memory problem, however what about not adding enough entropy. Since, seed words are well known at this point, and it's open source anyhow. Therefore, if you don't put words that are in that list, and aren't part of your seed, the entropy is actually terrible. Obviously, this only goes for if you're writing this down, but generally to remember something as complex as this you'd need to write it down.

Besides, as long as you look after your physical security, then you don't need to complicate things further by doing something like this.

Yes, I wouldn’t recommend creating a song out of the word list. I meant once you have your seed phrase (perhaps given to you by your wallet), then creating a melody with those words.

[Welsh]

Yes, I wouldn’t recommend creating a song out of the word list. I meant once you have your seed phrase (perhaps given to you by your wallet), then creating a melody with those words.

I do get that, but if you had this written down somewhere, it could potentially be guess if it only contained the words in your seed. Since, there's some words that stand out in the list, which aren't commonly used, and might accidentally indicate to whoever happens upon this piece of paper that it's a backup technique. It's not a technique that's unheard of.

That's if you write it down, if you solely rely on memory that has it's own issues. Again, it comes down to physical security, and while a well executed song of your seed might add a extra layer of security, it's probably unnecessary if your physical security is already substantial, which it ideally should be.

[uneng]

I believe it's a good idea only if you keep this song hidden from everyone else like you would keep your secret words written on a paper, because if someone have access to your song they can copy it and try opening your wallet with the words containing on it until they match the correct ones and their correct sequence. I guess it wouldn't be a hard task for a hacker to decipher the secret behind a short song of probably few verses with very discordant words from each other.

[Bitstar_coin]

Whether a song or poem it is still important to put it down in writing in a safe place that is only accessible to you. Memory can fail someone but if you can back it up somewhere it will be better.
Am not sure this is something I would do since I have my seed phrase written down and lock up somewhere, but I do find the idea interesting and probably useful in a way, memorizing a phrase in the form of a song or poem can make room for easy access instead of always trying to reach them anytime they are required.

[Jatiluhung]

Remembering 12 personal wallet phrase codes I don't think is as difficult as you think. But if the 12 phrases are only stored in memory then it is not recommended. because a memory is sometimes affected by its forgotten name, even a memory can be a little mistaken. but if we write it on a special paper and stored in a place that we think is safe then that's better. But actually I personally do both.

I write on special paper using a white crayon. so the text is not visible. and will only be visible when washed with other color paint.
I also remember the first 2 letters of the phrase my personal wallet which is specifically used for storing my long term investment assets.
I haven't thought about turning it into a song lyric. I prefer the way I do it myself.

[The Cryptovator]

I'm not recognizing What is the difference between writing a seed phrase and writing a song with your seed phrase? Because we can't recall our seed phrase, how can we recall song along with seed phrase? How will my seeds be identified if I write seed phrases with songs? That we have to memorize. I'm not certain that if I understood the OP correctly.

[goldkingcoiner]

A seed phrase song? Seems like encryption but a bit lazier. Why not just think of your own simple encryption algorithm and write it down like that? Not that I am condoning writing down seed phrases in any way or form. I still think its a bad idea. Surely 12 words are not that hard to commit to memory long term? Just recite it everyday until you have it in your long term memory. OR better yet, every time you access your wallet, access it with your seed phrase. If you do that everyday at some point that phrase will become indented into your memory. No need to leave physical or digital storage.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Sorry but I must say that this is the worst idea of ways to store seed phrases, though unique in its way.
Personally, if since 2015 I got into crypto, I've not had issues finding or remembering my seed phrases I wrote on paper, I don't see any reason why I should start writing a song using my seed phrase, besides, what's the essence of writing a song that will never be recorded, waxed and released to the public?
I will rather continue in my old style of writing my seed phrase in a piece of paper and keeping it safe, releasing a song with my seed phrase as part of the lyrics is a risk I would never take, don't ever underestimate how knowledgeable and smart people can be.

[aylabadia05]

EDIT

I am not suggesting this to be your only option for storing your seed phrase. I just thought it could be helpful to remember your seed phrase, in case you lose your backups.

Do not joke on something serious because it will bring disaster to us.
We as humans are created perfect when compared to other creatures on earth. We have reason and with reason we are required to think.

We understand that making as you say is to help remember the 12 word phrase. But we must also understand that when we experience a disaster such as a car accident that causes problems in the brain, are we still able to remember even though we have made it into a song?

It's better to save the phrase in some place offline that we can read.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Why not just think of your own simple encryption algorithm and write it down like that?

Because it's unlikely you know more than the experts who're studying about encryption algorithms for years.

Remembering 12 personal wallet phrase codes I don't think is as difficult as you think.

Let's do an experiment then. Generate a seed phrase, try memorizing it, don't touch it for a year, and come back in this thread to tell me that you do remember it. Maybe it isn't as easy as it seems.

[Welsh]

I write on special paper using a white crayon. so the text is not visible. and will only be visible when washed with other color paint.

I've not researched this, but generally Crayon isn't known to last very long. Are you sure that this would last potentially decades? Nothing has been tried, and tested more than normal ink. Crayon on the other hand, probably wouldn't last as long, especially if it was subjected to frequent handling. Ideally, you wouldn't be handling it very often, but I don't know your setup so it could potentially be handled or stored with other important documents which could effect it.

I'm sure you've considered it, but thought it might be worth mentioning. I personally wouldn't want to use crayon. I'm sure if it's just white crayon it would be able to be seen via shining a light on it or holding it up to light, right?

[goldkingcoiner]

Why not just think of your own simple encryption algorithm and write it down like that?

Because it's unlikely you know more than the experts who're studying about encryption algorithms for years.

I do not remember saying that I know more than the experts who study encryption algorithms for years. I do not think I made it sound like that.

What I am saying is that, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a seed phrase song just a kind of algorithm in itself? That's basically what I meant, because it seems like to me that a song would just be easier to crack if someone knew what to look for? Again, I am not calling myself an algorithm expert. Far from it.

And if you noticed I also said that writing it down, either as an encryption, in a song or plain text is not a good idea. But you must have missed that part of my post.

 

[Welsh]

I also said that writing it down, either as an encryption, in a song or plain text is not a good idea. But you must have missed that part of my post.

Plain text can be fine. Depends how you store it, basically you need a back up that isn't just convenient, but also has a high degree of physical security. Therefore, the most important part about a physical backup, is how you store it, and what sort of security you implement. You can make it digitally as strong as you want, but if you don't approach the physical side of things with the same scrutiny, that digital protection could all be for nothing.

Luckily, generally most of us can devise a pretty good standard of protection physically without doing anything too fancy.

[Odusko]

Song lyrics can serve as a good means to store some words for a long time and are easy to remember those phrases, but again we should take time to understand and evaluate the risk involved in having the written as song lyrics since humans can make the mistake of forgetting things or also misspellings of the seed phrase as time goes on, but why do I need to write them down in a song when I can simply have them written down in a save place either none paper or other means of securing them.

[Welsh]

also misspellings of the seed phrase as time goes on, but why do I need to write them down in a song when I can simply have them written down in a save place either none paper or other means of securing them.

Any mistakes in spelling should be easy to rectify. You could easily just Google the correct spelling, unless you've made an absolute mess of things, but most people are competent enough not to do that. I guess the only exception would be a non English speaker, that's using the English word seeds.

For your later point, it's usually okay to do so for most people. Obviously, people have different threat models, and comfort levels. So, it's going to differ from person to person, and there's no real correct answer. I prefer the approach of not over complicating things so much that it introduces problems, rather than solves them.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I do not remember saying that I know more than the experts who study encryption algorithms for years. I do not think I made it sound like that.

I didn't say you did. I just answered on your question, which was if it'd be good idea to come up with your own encryption scheme.

And if you noticed I also said that writing it down, either as an encryption, in a song or plain text is not a good idea. But you must have missed that part of my post.

I didn't miss it. I'm not talking about you anyway-- broadly, about people who would might have the same question about encryption scheme.

Plain text can be fine.

It can be fine, but it's not the best thing you can do. Even if it's an air-gapped device, hard disks are known for having a few years long lifetime.

[darkangel11]

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier.

You should try whatever fits your character and mood. Satoshi gave us bitcoin, what we do with it and how well we can protect it is up to us.

I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

In short, it's a song about regret and depression, like most of his songs. It's either melancholy or sadness in there, or both.

[Welsh]

It can be fine, but it's not the best thing you can do. Even if it's an air-gapped device, hard disks are known for having a few years long lifetime.

I was mainly referring to plainly written down, so I probably should've worded that better. I personally believe in physical, non digital storage. Then securing that physically is really your main concern.

As you mention, failing hard drives are one thing that's pretty unpredictable. However, also corruption, and not outright failure can obviously lead to problems too. Ideally, you'd have multiple non digital back ups, that aren't stored in the same place. However, not many people have the resources to do that, at least securely.