Merkle Tree Has Any Cons?

[kira_Lee]

Hi~ dears,

I just hear that users actually don't want Merkle tree for their transaction as proof, is it because that has privacy issues or what? Quiet confused by this. 

[jackg]

Have you got a link?

A merkle root tree is a data structure. It contains checksums but isn't proof or anything except the data transfer itself being transferred without corruption.

[NotATether]

Merkle Trees are just binary trees of transaction hashes. Each branch contains two other child branches, and the leaves contain a single transaction. The root merkle hash is what is included in a mined block. I am unaware of any techniques that can be applied on Merkle trees that could result in unauthorized transactions being mined.

[NeuroticFish]

I just hear that users actually don't want Merkle tree for their transaction as proof, is it because that has privacy issues or what? Quiet confused by this.  

As said, a Merkle tree is just a data structure with some hashes as "verification seals". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree
So you can put any data in there and depending on what data you put there, it may be safe or not, or may pose privacy issues or not.

You should tell more exactly what you were trying to ask about since you've pretty much asked "if we put something in boxes is ok or not?".


I will continue. Bitcoin blockchain is also a Merkle tree. At a second read it has occurred to me that maybe that's what you're asking about. But that's one central point of Bitcoin being Bitcoin. And if the lack of privacy in Bitcoin is an issue, one can just use Monero if the mixers on Bitcoin chain are not "good enough" for them.

[kira_Lee]

Have you got a link?

A merkle root tree is a data structure. It contains checksums but isn't proof or anything except the data transfer itself being transferred without corruption.

Just a offline meeting, some guests said so, so I am wondering if it is true.

I just hear that users actually don't want Merkle tree for their transaction as proof, is it because that has privacy issues or what? Quiet confused by this.  

As said, a Merkle tree is just a data structure with some hashes as "verification seals". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree
So you can put any data in there and depending on what data you put there, it may be safe or not, or may pose privacy issues or not.

You should tell more exactly what you were trying to ask about since you've pretty much asked "if we put something in boxes is ok or not?".


I will continue. Bitcoin blockchain is also a Merkle tree. At a second read it has occurred to me that maybe that's what you're asking about. But that's one central point of Bitcoin being Bitcoin. And if the lack of privacy in Bitcoin is an issue, one can just use Monero if the mixers on Bitcoin chain are not "good enough" for them.

Oh~ that sounds fair.

Hi~ dears,

I just hear that users actually don't want Merkle tree for their transaction as proof, is it because that has privacy issues or what? Quiet confused by this.  

Could you elaborate further? I don't expect average people know about merkle tree or have serious privacy concern.

Have you got a link?

My quick search lead me to this article, https://bitslog.com/2018/06/09/leaf-node-weakness-in-bitcoin-merkle-tree-design/. Although this article is about security concern, not privacy.

Yes, only very few will know about it even in the future, like most people know how to use Apps but not really know the technology behind.

And, I cannot elaborate futher because it is come from a offline meeting, some guests said so, them though they don't want others know about their transactions from Merkle Tree, because assets or property are belong to them， I guess it is like people don't want to be so transperant.

Merkle Trees are just binary trees of transaction hashes. Each branch contains two other child branches, and the leaves contain a single transaction. The root merkle hash is what is included in a mined block. I am unaware of any techniques that can be applied on Merkle trees that could result in unauthorized transactions being mined.

So it is a proof of real transactions then.

[jackg]

Have you got a link?

A merkle root tree is a data structure. It contains checksums but isn't proof or anything except the data transfer itself being transferred without corruption.

Just a offline meeting, some guests said so, so I am wondering if it is true.

It might be that they meant something else and just used merkle root as a placeholder unless they're not actually cryptoskeptic.

There's nothing that has come up that I have read that means this would cause problems with full nodes and not spv clients.

A simple fix for this when using an spv client would be to double check a txid (which is what a lot of people do so it's unlikely a repeatable attack vector after being used a few times).

[kira_Lee]

And, I cannot elaborate futher because it is come from a offline meeting, some guests said so, them though they don't want others know about their transactions from Merkle Tree, because assets or property are belong to them， I guess it is like people don't want to be so transperant.

One possible assumption would be they have privacy concern with SPV/lighweight wallet where the node/server could know list of their address based on returned merkle tree.

Merkle Trees are just binary trees of transaction hashes. Each branch contains two other child branches, and the leaves contain a single transaction. The root merkle hash is what is included in a mined block. I am unaware of any techniques that can be applied on Merkle trees that could result in unauthorized transactions being mined.

So it is a proof of real transactions then.

In short, yes. Although it's more accurate to say merkle tree is used as proof the transaction is included inside certain block.

Oh~ Got it. That's a much better explaination.

Have you got a link?

A merkle root tree is a data structure. It contains checksums but isn't proof or anything except the data transfer itself being transferred without corruption.

Just a offline meeting, some guests said so, so I am wondering if it is true.

It might be that they meant something else and just used merkle root as a placeholder unless they're not actually cryptoskeptic.

There's nothing that has come up that I have read that means this would cause problems with full nodes and not spv clients.

A simple fix for this when using an spv client would be to double check a txid (which is what a lot of people do so it's unlikely a repeatable attack vector after being used a few times).

Yep, sounds like this.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]