OneCoin - help! (No, not what you think ;-))

[johannanas]

Hi folks,

I'm currently writing my Master thesis about Crypto and Ponzi Schemes - namely, why cryptocurrencies are predestined for the use in such schemes.
One of my case studies is the wonderful OneCoin story. Now, I'd really like to include some facts-based angle to this, besides all the bogus, and am looking for historical data of the coin "value" or market cap...
However, I simply cannot find anything - other than their own figures they published, which I naturally don't trust.

Does any of you crypto experts in here have some useful tips? I'm quite new to the topic, so I might just not have checked the right sources...

Thanks in advance, all!

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[JeromeTash]

I doubt if you will find any historical data from third party sites like coinmarketcap

The fact about Ponzi schemes is that they have "coins" that are not actually coins or don't even have any blockchain tech behind them. The people behind ponzi schemes also dictate the price of the coin and not based on supply and demand

Look what is said on wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneCoin

The only way to exchange Onecoins for any other currency was OneCoin Exchange, xcoinx, an internal marketplace for members who had invested more than just a starter package. Onecoins could be exchanged for euros, which were placed in a virtual wallet from which they could be requested for wire transfer. The marketplace had daily selling limits based on which packages the seller had invested in, which greatly limited the amount of onecoins which could be exchanged.

This means the coin price data was only internally available for those who had signed up for the Ponzi scheme, which explains why you won't find any historical data.

[ryzaadit]

@JeromeTash was correct.

You cannot find any historical data price movement of "OneCoin" because is only on their "Site/Apps" without any "Blockchain" at all. So, just like point system in their apps without any actually real "mined".

Most of these "Cryptocurrency" scheme, you cannot sell on third parties exchange due the coins is not being listed. The user most the time is always sell their coin with P2P using Transfer Internal system on the apps (The price can't be determined & they need to find stupid people first to sell their coin).

[DapanasFruit]

I am sure you can find many published materials surrounding the many bad things on OneCoin...and the many people it victimized along the way. As to real facts detailing everything then maybe you need to find someone that was really connected in the inner sanctum of that big scam. Usually, scams and frauds are so tight on real information and people at the helm are controlling everything so that no light can shine on what they are doing. With Ruja Plamenova Ignatova still on hiding, we can't expect facts to surface on OneCoin.

[johannanas]

Thanks a lot for your valuable inputs, guys.

What you say makes a lot of sense - it just feels so ridiculous that third-party sources keep on mentioning the OneCoin Ponzi-Scheme quoting it to have been the "2nd largest cryptocurrency by market cap", when in fact this claim cannot be backed up without referring to their own made-up coin amount and value figures (I  mean, they had people buying this "coin", and their "coin" had a stated (albeit fake) "value" - does that constitute market cap per definition???). I get the feeling there's literally so much bulls*** out there that the company itself has spread, and almost nothing with substance (even the stated amount investors have lost in this scam ranges from somewhere around EUR 4bn to 19bn). Not the best base for a scientific thesis I guess... At least it doesn't sit quite right to use their information in any sort of context.

It would be absolutely great to speak to someone who somehow was involved in this whole disaster. I'll dig deeper into that thought (although I imagine it would be pretty hard to get to these people).

Thanks a lot for your help, you definitely saved me another week of fruitless research!

[ryzaadit]

What you say makes a lot of sense - it just feels so ridiculous that third-party sources keep on mentioning the OneCoin Ponzi-Scheme quoting it to have been the "2nd largest cryptocurrency by market cap", when in fact this claim cannot be backed up without referring to their own made-up coin amount and value figures (I  mean, they had people buying this "coin", and their "coin" had a stated (albeit fake) "value" - does that constitute market cap per definition???). I get the feeling there's literally so much bulls*** out there that the company itself has spread, and almost nothing with substance (even the stated amount investors have lost in this scam ranges from somewhere around EUR 4bn to 19bn). Not the best base for a scientific thesis I guess... At least it doesn't sit quite right to use their information in any sort of context.

Hi @Johannanas.

It's because of "PR PAID", I working as the "Moderator" and we always get some offer PR from Website Media. Realy easy to do that as long you have money to paid them, each offer is various from 1,000$ to 10,000$

No matter Ponzi or not they always try to offer the service.

[PrivacyG]

If you want something interesting to research about this, I am pretty certain OneCoin is still running in the public space in a few countries.  One of them is Romania.  Look up OneCoin Romania and they are still there, up and running.  At least, they were a few months ago.  Whether they are the main branch and initial scam or a new attempt by a smaller group, I have no idea.

Anyway.  I remember the woman running the entire Ponzi scheme was a Russian who is now on the run, am I correct?  And this is one of, if not the biggest cyber scam ever.  They had no real currency, they just stole money.  Yes, maybe we can call that a 'market cap' of a nonexistent coin.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[DefiDOG91]

There's a difference between Ponzi and actual DeFi projects. Stablefund turned scam after such a long period and it was heartbreaking but I won't say it was a ponzi or anywhere close to that. They just made some mistakes like compound deposits were not locked or something like that. Now there's Myst Finance who are doing everything SF did but are much more robust and transparent.

Always ask projects for proofs of profits before diving too deep, at least that's how I select where I invest.

[ryzaadit]

Always ask projects for proofs of profits before diving too deep, at least that's how I select where I invest.

Huh ? did you things ponzi is not paying too? Proof of profits is ridiculous. You should know and understand the system, not proof of profit. Ponzi is always paid some on who in early to make them promoted him and guess what targeting more people to come into them. The last person who are joined, is not getting paid or the ponzi scheme is reaching his peak cannot paid anymore.

-snip-

He already do the research, what he need just historical data price movement or marketcap. But will cannot find it, because the coin is actually not listed on anywhere & don't even have blockchain.

[johannanas]

Thank you for all your responses - this discussion in and of itself is extremely helpful!

@Ryzaadit: I can very much imagine it works like that! What confuses me is that even well-renowned media (actually reporting about OneCoin being a Ponzi-Scheme) pick up the "2nd biggest cryptocurrency by market cap"-narrative - how do they back this up if their so-called "market cap" is fictitious one, and even OneCoins alleged figures are not documented anywhere?

@PrivacyG: Great input! I actually started looking into this right away. So far I only found allegation that they might still be active in Bulgaria in some shape or form - curious to see where that path is gonna lead me!

@DefiDOG91: True that. I actually read a research article dissecting the different types of "Ponzi Schemes" in crypto, and the category of those who seem to have had a legitimate purpose and just "went south" at some point was substantial.

To sum it up, it seems like I'm gonna be searching in vain trying to find any actual "scientifically useful" figures about this scam - but I gather this is due to the nature of their "business case", as you guys have mentioned. It just feels weird trying to put together a scientific thesis dealing with this case, and mostly having to refer to their own bogus data.

I have 2 case studies to analyze and trying to figure out how these Ponzi Schemes could work, despite numerous warning signs. With OneCoin, I can somehow see that at least they did a good job when it comes to their marketing - it seems like they took the Bitcoin success story, then addressed all the "negative" (or potentially worrying) facts concerning crypto (such as risky investment, high volatility, prone to be used in the Darkweb back then, "anonymous" and "dezentralized" which they've been selling as disadvantages, etc.) and sold their "Coin" as a Non-Plus-Ultra having all the revolutionary advantages of Bitcoin while eliminating the bad aspects at the same time. Although I still feel like the red flags were numerous, I can somehow understand how one could've fallen for this very professionally-looking scam.

And then... My second case study is... Bitconnect!! Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to denounce anyone, and I feel so much for all these poor victims having lost their precious savings on this scam... But I did some initial research on this one as well and crawled back in their web archive - their storyline incl. return schemes have been absolutely out of this world, and, combined with a webpage scattered with grammar and spelling mistakes, I ask myself - HOW am I gonna explain why people fell for this???

Long story short - if anyone knows anything about this, or knows someone I could talk to - please let me know :-)

[merekamo]

So, not all cryptos use the Ponzi scheme you mentioned. Now, many altcoins are implemented into various ecosystems, for example P2E, Learn&Earn and many more. I suggest you should research more thoroughly from several coins or altcoins that use different concepts.

[vv181]

And then... My second case study is... Bitconnect!! Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to denounce anyone, and I feel so much for all these poor victims having lost their precious savings on this scam... But I did some initial research on this one as well and crawled back in their web archive - their storyline incl. return schemes have been absolutely out of this world, and, combined with a webpage scattered with grammar and spelling mistakes, I ask myself - HOW am I gonna explain why people fell for this???

Long story short - if anyone knows anything about this, or knows someone I could talk to - please let me know :-)

It is more likely you are going to have more plentiful resources on Bitconnect for the research compared to OneCoin. IIRC, there was someone who tries conduct a survey to those who were scammed by Bitconnect, I can't remember whether it was here or somewhere else, they were seeking Bitconnect scammed users to participate in some research.

Anyway, for the example of one of the resources, the Bitconnect announcement thread is could be seen here at [ANN][BCC] Bitconnect Coin - Decentralized Cryptocurrency . You could also trace back how the community react when it was happening here. By the way, hearing the Bitcoinnect word again, I always recall the meme of one that shouts Bitconnect!! in an event

[ryzaadit]

how do they back this up if their so-called "market cap" is fictitious one, and even OneCoins alleged figures are not documented anywhere?

Do people is really read the article?

We all-know, most of us never read the article and only the read the big part of headline. That's why more of project is paid a pr with some media, to promoted their project in their community. Just acting it was real.

it seems like they took the Bitcoin success story, then addressed all the "negative" (or potentially worrying) facts concerning crypto (such as risky investment, high volatility, prone to be used in the Darkweb back then, "anonymous" and "dezentralized" which they've been selling as disadvantages, etc.) and sold their "Coin" as a Non-Plus-Ultra having all the revolutionary advantages of Bitcoin while eliminating the bad aspects at the same time. Although I still feel like the red flags were numerous, I can somehow understand how one could've fallen for this very professionally-looking scam.

Don't forget.

Most of "Ponzi" scheme is always targeting with non-crypto user, un-educated person especially like Older Society while they don't really understand the tech and getting interested because the interest/profit they are offering.

It's always like that, happening on my country.

[FP91G]

Ruja Ignatova, founder of the crypto pyramid Onecoin, may have been murdered in Greece a year after her disappearance. According to an article, quoting a leaked report from a police informant, the “missing Cryptoqueen” was killed on a yacht in the Ionian Sea more than four years ago.

Murder in the Mediterranean – Another Theory About Onecoin Mastermind’s Fate Circulated
https://news.bitcoin.com/onecoin-cryptoqueen-killed-in-greece-in-2018-report-claims/

[o48o]

Ruja Ignatova, founder of the crypto pyramid Onecoin, may have been murdered in Greece a year after her disappearance. According to an article, quoting a leaked report from a police informant, the “missing Cryptoqueen” was killed on a yacht in the Ionian Sea more than four years ago.

Murder in the Mediterranean – Another Theory About Onecoin Mastermind’s Fate Circulated
https://news.bitcoin.com/onecoin-cryptoqueen-killed-in-greece-in-2018-report-claims/

I am not saying this wouldn't be true. I thought in the first place that she doesn't have a clue what kind of people she have to deal with now. And would have been definitely murdered immediately when she tries to launder all that stolen money.
But i am also saying that if i was her, i would definitely start a rumor that i have been killed. Probably even manufactured some evidence for it.

[jostorres]

I thought in the first place that she doesn't have a clue what kind of people she have to deal with now. And would have been definitely murdered immediately when she tries to launder all that stolen money.

That's impossible. This was one of the biggest scam in the history of cryptocurrency so the people behind it are wise and intelligent but if they are only dealing with the people that they already knew like for example their own family, relatives and friends, then I think they are comfortable that they won't be betrayed by them but they will now be more careful on the people outside or on the people that they didn't know well. Laundering money on the other hand, can always be done online since the transaction did also takes place online.

i am also saying that if i was her, i would definitely start a rumor that i have been killed. Probably even manufactured some evidence for it.

I think it's possible that some criminals will pay the media to tell that they are now dead but the truth is that they are still alive. They can also bribe the the police and others but not all are going to agree with it because this was wrong and for them their dignity is still more important than any amounts of money being offered to them.