Should the difference in size between normal and quoted text be smaller?

[PowerGlove]

I've noticed that my eyes often want to quickly skim quoted text (which is a bit smaller) compared to unquoted text and it sometimes takes an effort for me to read it properly. I browse the forum from two different computers with two different monitor resolutions (one a fair bit higher than the other) and I recently (~1 year ago) had my eyes tested (grateful to not need glasses yet; must be all those carrots -- thanks, mom!) so although I haven't ruled it out, I don't think it's me or my setup.

I'm aware that I can fix this for myself by making things bigger with browser settings and whatnot, but while I was poking around the forum's CSS I found what I think is behind my problem: normal text is set to 13px, quoted text is set to 11px and quote titles are set to 10px. Now, quoted text should appear smaller than normal text, and quote titles should appear smaller than quoted text (ignoring boldness), so I'm not proposing making them all the same size (that looks really goofy, I tried it) but I think making it go 13px/12px/11px is better than 13px/11px/10px.

I think this is more important than it might seem, because I believe it subtly affects how people read posts (i.e. subconsciously avoiding carefully reading quoted text, which is often as -- and sometimes more -- important than unquoted text in terms of fully understanding a given post).

Here's what 13px/11px/10px (how it is now) looks like:



And here's what 13px/12px/11px (what I'm proposing) looks like:



Anybody else prefer the second one?

Edit: The above screenshots are a little hard to accurately gauge the difference on because of font hinting and the like, so take them with a grain of salt (i.e. the same stylesheet adjustments will likely look a bit different on your system).

Not that theymos needs it (it's a trivial change), but for completeness' sake, here's the stylesheet patch:

Code:

--- ./style_before.css	2022-11-27 10:03:55.091702000 +0000
+++ ./style_after.css	2022-11-27 10:06:29.647700841 +0000
@@ -120,25 +120,25 @@
 {
 	border: 0;
 }
 
 /* A quote, perhaps from another post. */
 .quote
 {
 	color: #000000;
 	background-color: #f1f2f4;
 	border: 1px solid #d0d0e0;
 	padding: 5px;
 	margin: 1px 3px 6px 6px;
-	font-size: 11px;
+	font-size: 12px;
 	line-height: 1.4em;
 }
 
 
 /* A code block - maybe even PHP ;). */
 .code
 {
 	color: #000000;
 	background-color: #fff;
 	font-family: "courier new", "times new roman", monospace;
 	font-size: 12px;
 	line-height: 1.3em;
@@ -152,25 +152,25 @@
 	overflow: auto;
 	/* Stop after about 24 lines, and just show a scrollbar. */
 	max-height: 24em;
 }
 
 /* The "Quote:" and "Code:" header parts... */
 .quoteheader, .codeheader
 {
 	color: #476C8E;
 	text-decoration: none;
 	font-style: normal;
 	font-weight: bold;
-	font-size: 10px;
+	font-size: 11px;
 	line-height: 1.2em;
 	 margin-left: 6px;
 }
 
 /* Generally, those [?] icons.  This makes your cursor a help icon. */
 .help
 {
 	cursor: help;
 }
 
 /* /me uses this a lot. (emote, try typing /me in a post.) */
 .meaction

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[PX-Z]

The current font sizes are not that big deal to me since i can just zoom in and out for that but those who have a bit sight problem, this might be a help for them. And yeah, I agree that 13px/12px/11px is better than the previous font sizes.

[Findingnemo]

I used to the existing font size for years so it looks a bit odd to me so it is kind of stressing to read them, just from my experience on the above proposed example so I am completely okay with old font sizes. But is there any other way for users to enable font sizes for quoted posts and their comments if they want too? Instead of making changes in the whole forum?

[ABCbits]

I also prefer 2nd one (13/12/11px), it could be handy when reading in-depth/long discussion. Although i agree people could just use zoom in on their browser or use browser setting/addons to override font size manually.

But is there any other way for users to enable font sizes for quoted posts and their comments if they want too? Instead of making changes in the whole forum?

Either by using add-ons or custom script to modify the CSS (which added on either addons such as Tampermonkey or Violentmonkey).

[LoyceV]

I'm okay with the current font sizes, and I like that quotes are a tad smaller. When using my laptop screen (high resolution and small size), I usually zoom to 110%. On my big screen, I usually use 100%, but 90% would be okay too. So no need to change it.
Increasing the font in quotes would also make the entire quote bigger, which means more scrolling.

I'm aware that I can fix this for myself by making things bigger with browser settings and whatnot

Back in the days, I used to set a minimum font size in my browser.

[Upgrade00]

I'm okay with the current font sizes, and I like that quotes are a tad smaller.

I also appreciate the difference in font sizes between quoted texts and unquoted. It helps one to skim through the quotes a bit easier, particularly for users who quote walls of texts and those who quote full replies which are just right above theirs.

This is not really any major inconvenience to users,most of which who might not have noticed any size difference.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

The layout we have now and the layout you are proposing does not make any difference for me. It's been years I am with the forum and I can even locate text tools without having their icons LOL. So the reading difficulty of the quoted text is not a difficulty at all.

This is not really any major inconvenience to users,most of which who might not have noticed any size difference.

There are size difference of the text which is easily noticeable but I don't think anyone have any complain about it. It's in fact better to read long wall of text like JJG posts.

[Plaguedeath]

Honestly I'm fine with the quoted text is smaller since we're should be focus on the next reply rather than the quoted part, which make me think it's make sense why the quoted text is smaller than the normal text size.

Actually I'm more want to see an improvement on the signature space, usually if I open this forum on my device, the signature will not appear very well just like in laptop or PC. Although it can be solved by deleting few part/line of the signature to make it shorter r, but as I can see there's many signature is still long.

[Mpamaegbu]

For me, the difference between the two samples of quoted texts you used are infinitesimal. I can zoom in on texts if I'm reading and think the prints are tiny for my eyes. I believe it's same for most users here too. Most users don't even care. However, I think what could be an issue is the wall of texts some users resort to when quoting comments. On my part, that's disgusting. I don't like reading such wall of quotes. Expectedly, I skip such and move over to the next comments.

[SFR10]

Anybody else prefer the second one?

The second one is marginally better, but when I'm using the default scale, it's still a bit smaller than I'd like it to be ^{[I wish we had various presets for different resolutions (especially for higher ones)]}.
^{- For what it's worth, sometimes I use the magnifier tool in windows, in lens view (apart from increasing the zoom level in my browser).}

[NeuroticFish]

It all depends on screen size, resolution and browser settings (zoom).
I don't think that it makes much of a difference (both are small, lol!). I am not against it, but I also don't think it worth the hassle for the change.

I somewhat agree with SFR10 here: a more interesting change could be to also increase a little the size for normal post text too.

[PowerGlove]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, everyone. I appreciate it!

I'm browsing the forum with the second option (13px/12px/11px) implemented as a local stylesheet override, and although it did take some getting used to, I have to say: it's very pleasant! I don't think I could go back to the old way, now (13px/11px/10px).

Quoted text shows up so often on Bitcointalk and in so many contexts that having it be just a little bigger (but still a tiny bit smaller than normal text) is quite an improvement (to my eyes).

[dkbit98]

Oh, we have one more patch suggestion from PowerGlove, but last one is still not approved by lord theymos.
I am fine with current current font sizes settings and sometimes I am adjusting zoom level myself, according to device and screen size I amusing.
It would be nice if quoted text could be shown in slightly different lighter color (maybe grey) but this is just my personal preference.

[PowerGlove]

Oh, we have one more patch suggestion from PowerGlove, but last one is still not approved by lord theymos.

Yup. I'm hoping theymos will merge the member filtering patch at some point, because it's very useful and I think most people will agree once/if they get to see it in action.

Back to this patch though, if anyone is curious (and tech-savvy) enough to want to experiment with running it locally (without having to install browser extensions) then here are some instructions (for Firefox, or Firefox-derived browsers like Tor Browser):

Step 1: Browse to "about:support" to figure out where your "Profile Directory" is (should be near the middle of what's listed under "Application Basics").

Step 2: Create a folder (if it doesn't already exist) named "chrome" within the directory from the previous step.

Step 3: Create a file (if it doesn't already exist) named "userContent.css" within the directory from the previous step.

Step 4: Browse to "about:config" and enable the setting named "toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets".

Step 5: Close your browser.

Step 6: Put the following inside the "userContent.css" file, from step 3:

Code:

@-moz-document domain(bitcointalk.org) {

    .quote { font-size: 12px !important; }

    .quoteheader, .codeheader { font-size: 11px !important; }
}

Obviously, you can put whatever stylesheet overrides you like in there (take a look at the forum's main stylesheet for ideas) but I'm only concerned (at the moment) with what I wrote about in the initial post (i.e. making quoted text slightly bigger).

[Husires]

Yup. I'm hoping theymos will merge the member filtering patch at some point, because it's very useful and I think most people will agree once/if they get to see it in action.

This is great. I'm going to test it.

• Can you put a screenshot before and after modification, with more changes to the CSS, then your argument will be stronger and closer to implementation.
• Have you tried it on the local boards, because we will hear an opposite complaint if it is worse and has been applied to the entire forum.

I find that the quotation line is much smaller is a logical reason. Mostly the quotation is citing the source and therefore you will return to the source or it is part of a previous discussion,  I think it is logical for it to be smaller in size (13px/11px/10px).

[LoyceV]

running it locally (without having to install browser extensions)

I think this means your patch will never be applied. By adjusting it client-side for the users who want it, the forum can remain unchanged for anyone else.

[PowerGlove]

[...] I think this means your patch will never be applied. By adjusting it client-side for the users who want it, the forum can remain unchanged for anyone else.

Yep. You're probably right.

If you or anyone else decides to give 13px/12px/11px a try then here's a little advice (if I may):

Make sure to give it a fair shake. If you've been using the forum for a long time or even only ~5 months like I have, then you've gotten very used to how things look right now and your initial reaction is likely to be: "No, I don't like that."

Force yourself to use it for a full forum session (i.e. browse a few boards, write a post or two, get up-to-date on what's happening in reputation, answer some PMs, etc.) and when you're done I think you'll find that you've changed your mind. If not, then rinse and repeat until you do.

[LoyceV]

If you or anyone else decides to give 13px/12px/11px a try then here's a little advice (if I may):

Like I said, I don't need it.
I can however imagine that changes when I buy a new monitor with higher resolution (and smaller pixels).

[tranthidung]

I even did not notice that text size in quoted part will be smaller than non-quoted parts. Looking at OP, your example and your proposal, honestly, I think the forum default is better because it gives a smaller text size in quoted parts, even it is only a little bit bigger than yours.

Anyway, in all cases, normal size for all, smaller or bigger size for quoted parts are not big matters. I feel almost the same with three options but if I make a choice, I choose 13px/11px/10px version.

[crwth]

Never really thought about this but I don't think it would make a big difference in how I interact and use the forum though.

What I think is important with the quoting system is the highlighting of the quoted text and it pretty much does the job for me.