Let's not be too judgemental about CZ (Binance)

[EarnOnVictor]

Sometimes, I see things differently from other people's perspective, and this case of CZ against other exchanges is no different. This might be because I started trading and investments in sane climes where strict regulation thrives, not like in crypto where exchanges do whatever they want with people's money. Many might be blaming CZ, but I blame him less.

Yes, he's instrumental in crashing FTX, but is FTX and SBF guiltless? No. How many of you would have a $2.1B investment in a company and suspect stress and foul play and will not withdraw the money? His (BSF) illegal activities called for it and made the decision of CZ effective. This would have played differently if SBF is ethical, sincere, and played with people's money with a good level of professionalism.

As the largest exchange in the industry, Binance has the responsibility to protect its business and its environment, especially when it is underregulated. If the environment becomes unconducive and panic lingers beyond normal, it might affect even Binance, that's business for you. This is what the guy is avoiding, I think, though many see it differently as being selfish.

This is people's money we are talking about, none of the rivals of Binance should panic or conclude a foul play if they are sincere and professional enough. We should stop pitying centralized exchanges, they don't care about their customers and their money, they act like gods and play as they like with people's money living 5-star lives all around the world. They should come clean if they are truly what they preach. But I dare them, only a few would survive integrity test.

Should we now be supporting their illegality? Anyone of them should attack Binance too if they want to, it's called a healthy rivalry, all I want is the protection of people's money and sincerity of their operation.

I don't even support centralization again, yet let's stop accusing CZ to force other centralized exchanges to do the right thing and stop fooling people in the name of exchange.

[Oshosondy]

What matters most is not to leave your coins on an exchange, ones it is there, it is not yours on blockchain, you have no full control over your own coins. Exchanges means to exchange and not to safe or hold your coins on an exchanging platform. Nobody is blaming Binance CEO, and if anyone is blaming him, that is life, you can not expect people to think the same. But what most people are after is that CZ actions is leading to centralization, he created the Beacon chain, the BSC, automatically converting USDC, TUSD and USDP to BUSD on Binance, said to increase liquidity when USDC has been the alternative main traidng pair on some other exchanges. He bought Coinmarketcap, Forbes announces $200 million strategic investment from Binance in early this year. CZ wanted to be a big player and dominate the crypto market (although bitcoin remain strong), but this is leading to centralization in a way that if Binance fall, it might almost collapse crypto market which will lead to loss of money even beyond what happened to FTX.

[noorman0]

-snip-
This would have played differently if SBF is ethical, sincere, and played with people's money with a good level of professionalism.

If there is no written liability agreement, playing with "people's money" which is not described in the terms of use page is not allowed in any way. Neither SBF, CZ nor the CEO of any exchange will try their best to avoid being sued by users although in the end they will have to face the law and be rather slow to remedy the situation out of coercion.

[Husires]

People's motives differ according to what they want to do. Some support CZ for nothing but that he wants to buy at a low price, and then he may attack CZ (Binance) because he wants to sell at a different price.

What I want to convey to you is that you do not trust anyone who is able to protect your money, or that he is the golden star who fears encryption and seeks decentralization, do not trust anyone, check everything and then decide what to do.

Look what YouTube channels did a while ago that glorified SBF, and today they don't all talk about him.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

What matters most is not to leave your coins on an exchange

That's important no doubt, but if we're talking about FTX, CZ, and SBF I'd say there are massive issues that dwarf that pearl of wisdom.

The move CZ pulled in selling FTT was ruthless, and initially I thought it was even villainous, but after learning about all the shit SBF was up to and how FTX was run I've changed my tune about that.  All that money he donated to the democratic party....what a complete tool.  But I'll bet there's not much that's going to be made about that particular aspect.

On a side note, as I'm writing this I'm listening to MSNBC news and some jackoff is declaring crypto dead since there's been so much damage done.  He must not be aware of crypto's history.

[NeuroticFish]

Yes, he's instrumental in crashing FTX, but is FTX and SBF guiltless?

1. You cannot really tell people what to think, OK? So that title is.. not the best choice.
2. I think that CZ was not aware of how very bad is the situation of FTX. So it was an ugly backstabbing, but on the other hand a lucky strike for uncovering a huge scam.
3. Keep in mind that CZ pretty much tried the same with Coinbase and although this exchange is a bit more solid and it was proven that CZ tweet on Coinbase was FUD (and soon removed), people still withdrew a could of billions worth of bitcoin from Coinbase (which is good if kept in self custody, but not great if just moved to another centralized system ie Binance).

So while it's most probably not CZ that orchestrated the huge scam at FTX, he's has his own "sins" and people have their right to judge him, at least for those.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

You mean, the guy who at one point thought of a Bitcoin Reorg after his exchange had 7,000 Bitcoin hack?

The guy who endlessly keeps shilling his centralized BNB Beacon chain and BSC while at the same time create fake "Bitcoins" on the shitcoin chains for noobs to ignorantly withdraw because the withdrawal fees are lowered compared to the Real Bitcoin?

How do you even continue trusting such a guy, even after the FTX saga?
There are some people here who could defend FTX and SBF with their hearts if you said anything critical about him not so long ago. I see you are still probably so blind with the case of CZ until hell breaks loose some day.

As the largest exchange in the industry, Binance has the responsibility to protect its business and its environment, especially when it is underregulated. If the environment becomes unconducive and panic lingers beyond normal, it might affect even Binance, that's business for you. This is what the guy is avoiding, I think, though many see it differently as being selfish.

Obviously for them to thrive, they have to be selfish, predatory and greedy. Don't tell me you don't know this.

This is people's money we are talking about, none of the rivals of Binance should panic or conclude a foul play if they are sincere and professional enough.

So it's Ok for a full CEO to tweet un-researched claims about arrival exchange?

We should stop pitying centralized exchanges, they don't care about their customers and their money, they act like gods and play as they like with people's money living 5-star lives all around the world.

But you are already pitying one, along with their CEO. Contradictory, innit?

I don't even support centralization again, yet let's stop accusing CZ to force other centralized exchanges to do the right thing and stop fooling people in the name of exchange.

People should be smart enough not to trust anyone with their funds. Not even CZ. it's the whole point of Bitcoin.

[examplens]

2. I think that CZ was not aware of how very bad is the situation of FTX. So it was an ugly backstabbing, but on the other hand a lucky strike for uncovering a huge scam.

it's obvious that there was a problem with FTX, Binance's reaction only revealed and accelerated the process. the justification that they actually took care of their investment and the money of their users has a real basis, but the impression remains that Binance has been very happy to use it.
considering that the recovery of the market will not be in the near future, it is likely that the whole FTX problem would escalate in the foreseeable future even without Binance mediation. I believe that if it had to happen, it is better as soon as possible in order to continue with further life/development.

[tiCeR]

What matters most is not to leave your coins on an exchange

That's important no doubt, but if we're talking about FTX, CZ, and SBF I'd say there are massive issues that dwarf that pearl of wisdom.

The move CZ pulled in selling FTT was ruthless, and initially I thought it was even villainous, but after learning about all the shit SBF was up to and how FTX was run I've changed my tune about that.  All that money he donated to the democratic party....what a complete tool.  But I'll bet there's not much that's going to be made about that particular aspect.

On a side note, as I'm writing this I'm listening to MSNBC news and some jackoff is declaring crypto dead since there's been so much damage done.  He must not be aware of crypto's history.

It is even worse than that. In this video SBF admits that he donated the same amount to both the Democrats and Republicans, but the donation to the Republicans was so called "dark money". Watch from 1:00, it's SBF speaking himself twisting things like crazy.

You guys can check this post from me as well. There is another video mentioned (I posted elsewhere as well I think), but that one is worth watching because it clearly shows who SBF was. You won't believe it... That might also have contributed to CZ making his decisions. If he didn't have any insights into FTX and Alameda, there were certainly enough indicators to take action at some point. The way he did it remains perhaps questionable though. But FTX had to collapse. Enjoy the videos.

[Darker45]

Why shouldn't we not be judgmental about CZ? Should we protect CZ and attack SBF? Should we spare CZ from our criticisms?

SBF and CZ are competitors. But it doesn't mean they're not of the same feathers. SBF is a douchebag. But it doesn't mean that CZ is not a douchebag. This is not a black and white, devil and angel, comparison. They're both douchebags. They're both hypocrites. SBF was a big failure. He deserved what happened to his empire, if not more. But this doesn't make CZ a hero. Again, they're both villains. They're both liabilities of crypto.

[EarnOnVictor]

Sorry, I can't reply to every post, nevertheless, the replies below should shed more light on my disposition on this thread.

Yes, he's instrumental in crashing FTX, but is FTX and SBF guiltless?

1. You cannot really tell people what to think, OK? So that title is.. not the best choice.
2. I think that CZ was not aware of how very bad is the situation of FTX. So it was an ugly backstabbing, but on the other hand a lucky strike for uncovering a huge scam.
3. Keep in mind that CZ pretty much tried the same with Coinbase and although this exchange is a bit more solid and it was proven that CZ tweet on Coinbase was FUD (and soon removed), people still withdrew a could of billions worth of bitcoin from Coinbase (which is good if kept in self custody, but not great if just moved to another centralized system ie Binance).

So while it's most probably not CZ that orchestrated the huge scam at FTX, he's has his own "sins" and people have their right to judge him, at least for those.

Thank you for the reply, nonetheless, permit me to reply to them one by one.

1. The topic is perfect for what I expressed. I had five different topics before opting for this since I didn't want to be biased. Advising us not to be too judgmental is not what I see as bad for people to carefully review the situation without taking sides and see another good possibility for the industry with what he (CZ) is doing. He might be wrong somewhere but not entirely wrong, and what he is doing might instil fear in other exchanges for them to do what is right.

2. Contrarily, he was aware of the bad situation of the company which made him want to sell all his shares there, but did not know it was that bad.

3. And as for Coinbase and others, they can fire back at him and his company, I don't care, I don't entirely support him but some of his actions. What I want is for them to force regulation among themselves by revealing what they are doing wrong. Binance is not left out of this, let others attack it too and let people know what is going on in there in the bid to better protect people's money.

Why shouldn't we not be judgmental about CZ? Should we protect CZ and attack SBF? Should we spare CZ from our criticisms?

SBF and CZ are competitors. But it doesn't mean they're not of the same feathers. SBF is a douchebag. But it doesn't mean that CZ is not a douchebag. This is not a black and white, devil and angel, comparison. They're both douchebags. They're both hypocrites. SBF was a big failure. He deserved what happened to his empire, if not more. But this doesn't make CZ a hero. Again, they're both villains. They're both liabilities of crypto.

I believe you are not getting the gist of my post and perhaps mean towards CZ, it's obvious, yet I will remain neutral here. Not being too judgemental as per my title means we should be even with our conclusions and weigh the bad and good sides of what he is doing. Others (exchanges) could attack him for all I care, all I want is a healthy rivalry amongst exchanges and people to stop thinking CZ is entirely evil. The attack he has started is good for the industry as far as I'm concerned, others should attack him too and leak expose about him if they could do. With this, more insanity would come to the industry and they would seat rightly instead of playing pranks on people and their money.

Also, stop defending any exchanges or any personality linked to them, you might be surprised by their internal nonsense in which CZ is not excluded. I am not defending him! In other words, I was just saying his actions are good for the underregulated industry where anyone could do as they like. Anyone could start it, CZ starting it as the largest in the industry is not a big deal.

[NeuroticFish]

Advising us not to be too judgmental

OK, you may be somewhat right on this. I also try to not take sides and from my point of view you seem to be a tad on CZ side. But maybe it's the language barrier and I'm wrong...

2. Contrarily, he was aware of the bad situation of the company which made him want to sell all his shares there, but did not know it was that bad.

You've pretty much expressed the same thing I meant, just with the "contrarily" in front. Maybe I should have been a bit more clear

3. And as for Coinbase and others, they can fire back at him and his company, I don't care, I don't entirely support him but some of his actions. What I want is for them to force regulation among themselves by revealing what they are doing wrong. Binance is not left out of this, let others attack it too and let people know what is going on in there in the bid to better protect people's money.

I also cannot care less for Coinbase, they are overall bad for the ecosystem, still the Americans prefer them. But Binance is not really better, and I cannot support CZ backstabbing, although it can bring good results for the ecosystem. But, let's just think, why didn't CZ do this kind of actions years ago? Instead of calling for transparency, he did odd (at best) actions many times in the "history" and Binance is faking its volumes just as badly as (or maybe even more than) the rest.

I find also funny that the funds he's proposing to aid other companies are all in his shitcoins, not in bitcoin. So, sadly, all his actions are not for the common good, they're cold business calculations.

[stompix]

Anyone of them should attack Binance too if they want to, it's called a healthy rivalry, all I want is the protection of people's money and sincerity of their operation.

What you're suggesting is illegal in any normal country on this planet and would mean jail time for the one doing so, this is not a game of starcraft this is playing with people's money!

This is what the guy is avoiding, I think, though many see it differently as being selfish.

The only thing this guy is avoiding is playing by the rules, I'm not going to start again with the things he lied about but here is one small list of what he lied about his own exchange and this is not even the worse he did.

What I want is for them to force regulation among themselves by revealing what they are doing wrong. Binance is not left out of this, let others attack it too and let people know what is going on in there in the bid to better protect people's money.

Then how about you start with revealing stuff about Binance since you like what CZ is doing that much?
First, where is Binance's headquarters and where are their offices?

I was happy to see the Option trading feature with Binance, which is my only exchange,

Biased much?

You mean, the guy who at one point thought of a Bitcoin Reorg after his exchange had 7,000 Bitcoin hack?

The guy who endlessly keeps shilling his centralized BNB Beacon chain and BSC while at the same time create fake "Bitcoins" on the shitcoin chains for noobs to ignorantly withdraw because the withdrawal fees are lowered compared to the Real Bitcoin?
How do you even continue trusting such a guy, even after the FTX saga?

Because despite the whole decentralization, no key point, no leader narrative most people want a leading figure, they want somebody here to act like the face of the business, somebody to represent their investment, that's why they clap for Saylor or Bukele or CZ, the other reason being that they are heavily invested in some shitcoin or BNB, that they keep their assets or trade on Binance like our dear OP.
Most can't accept being alone, they can't accept the environment to be made just of them, they have to find a platform, a wallet, something that will act like their bank to ease the burden, to give them confidence that someone more qualified is taking care of their assets. And a lot fall for all this #SAFU nonsense, all their lies, all the hype.
Not too judgemental about CZ? F### him!
Everyone should be allowed to be as judgemental as it wants, especially with the events lately.

[PrimeNumber7]

Yes, he's instrumental in crashing FTX, but is FTX and SBF guiltless?

I would tend to disagree that CZ/binance caused FTX to collapse.

Based on the information I have read that I believe to be reliable, FTX loaned money to an affiliate for the purpose of speculative trading. The money lent was customer deposits that I understand were not interest-bearing, and reasonably should have been kept segregated (at a minimum from an accounting perspective) from other assets at FTX. The sale of FTT by CZ/binance was preceded by the run on the bank of FTX, but FTX would have been able to honor all customer withdrawals if non-interest-bearing customer funds were segregated.

Even if one were to argue that it is permissible to lend out customer deposits that are not interest-bearing (which is an argument I disagree with), there was too much exposure to FTT, which is an affiliated altcoin. This argument requires looking at FTX like a bank (that loans out customer deposits), and having that level of exposure to a single asset is just reckless.

In sum, it was SBF that ultimately caused the collapse of FTX, IMO.

[EarnOnVictor]

Anyone of them should attack Binance too if they want to, it's called a healthy rivalry, all I want is the protection of people's money and sincerity of their operation.

What you're suggesting is illegal in any normal country on this planet and would mean jail time for the one doing so, this is not a game of starcraft this is playing with people's money!

I beg to disagree, why is CZ not rotting in jail now or charged for any wrongdoing? I believe you don't understand the style of attack I was referring to.

What I want is for them to force regulation amongst themselves by revealing what they are doing wrong. Binance is not left out of this, let others attack it too and let people know what is going on in there in the bid to better protect people's money.

Then how about you start with revealing stuff about Binance since you like what CZ is doing that much?

Don't get it twisted, I'm not an advocate of CZ, and neither am I a fan. I only like what he is doing for the industry. Revealing more secrets is key to sanitising the much-underregulated exchange industry.

I was happy to see the Option trading feature with Binance, which is my only exchange,

Biased much?

Goodness! You still went in search of what I wrote about two months ago? Well, you should not just take that out of context, I wrote the topic in search of a better exchange that offers Options trading better than Binance, so you have no valid point here. It was even negative to Binance because their Options trading was not fair to me, therefore you extracted from what is actually against Binance to prove my neutrality.

I would tend to disagree that CZ/binance caused FTX to collapse.

Based on the information I have read that I believe to be reliable, FTX loaned money to an affiliate for the purpose of speculative trading. The money lent was customer deposits that I understand were not interest-bearing, and reasonably should have been kept segregated (at a minimum from an accounting perspective) from other assets at FTX. The sale of FTT by CZ/binance was preceded by the run on the bank of FTX, but FTX would have been able to honor all customer withdrawals if non-interest-bearing customer funds were segregated.

Even if one were to argue that it is permissible to lend out customer deposits that are not interest-bearing (which is an argument I disagree with), there was too much exposure to FTT, which is an affiliated altcoin. This argument requires looking at FTX like a bank (that loans out customer deposits), and having that level of exposure to a single asset is just reckless.

In sum, it was SBF that ultimately caused the collapse of FTX, IMO.

Your explanation is good and your found facts are true as well, but you are looking at it in the direction of BSF's mismanagement of FTX. What he did is truly wrong, but have you ever thought that FTX would still be operational if CZ did not announce his withdrawal of the $2.1B? Indeed, it was that announcement that caused the panic withdrawal that eventually caused the collapse of the company.

This is likened to a tree that is about to fall but was supported by another tree or a solid plank. It would surely easily fall if the support is removed. That was what happened. Though CZ is not part of the mismanagement, his action was powerful to an already stressed company.

[stompix]

I beg to disagree, why is CZ not rotting in jail now or charged for any wrongdoing? I believe you don't understand the style of attack I was referring to.

And why are you so sure it won't happen?
Is SBF rotting in jail right now or am I missing something?

Don't get it twisted, I'm not an advocate of CZ, and neither am I a fan.

You're not an advocate but you're opening a topic on how grateful we should be to CZ for all the glorious work he has put into crypto and that we should not dare to doubt to attack him and tolerate all his dick moves and all the bullshit the claims on Twitter because we're too stupid to understand his greatness. F*** CZ! And a big FY to all his cohort of asslickers too!

Revealing more secrets is key to sanitising the much-underregulated exchange industry.

That's why I asked you, since you like regulation and open data so much, again, where are Binance headquarters and office?
Is Binance licensed and regulated in your country? Oh, wait, no it's not!

I only like what he is doing for the industry.

Building a monopoly, attacking others, attacking bitcoin, fleeing from the law? This is, good for the industry?

Goodness! You still went in search of what I wrote about two months ago? Well, you should not just take that out of context, I wrote the topic in search of a better exchange that offers Options trading better than Binance, so you have no valid point here.

It doesn't matter, Binance is the only exchange you trade on and you're here praising Binance, that is called bias and that's how it is.

[posi]

I agree with your thoughts, to me, FTX died because of themselves and not because of CZ or coindesk. If they do business honestly, without lying, no matter how big FUDS is, they will always stand firm and not collapse so quickly. CZ as a billion USD investor in FTX he has the right to doubt and need clarification to avoid affecting his interests. If we were in his position, we would do the same because no one can be silent once money is involved.

[KingsDen]

I agree with your thoughts, to me, FTX died because of themselves and not because of CZ or coindesk. If they do business honestly, without lying, no matter how big FUDS is, they will always stand firm and not collapse so quickly. CZ as a billion USD investor in FTX he has the right to doubt and need clarification to avoid affecting his interests. If we were in his position, we would do the same because no one can be silent once money is involved.

I believe that the Lunac and FTX incidents didn't just happen, there is some kinds of conspiracy involved. Although business do fail if mismanaged. But in the alleged conspiracy I have always imagined CZ in the picture as the big fish and chief strategist.
I consider him so in general terms, but in personal terms I consider him a smart guy who is always ahead of thr happenings in the crypto world. His empire is too large and he cannot be easily taken down. What makes him bleed will largely affect the whole crypto industry.

[Rikafip]

I believe that the Lunac and FTX incidents didn't just happen, there is some kinds of conspiracy involved. Although business do fail if mismanaged. But in the alleged conspiracy I have always imagined CZ in the picture as the big fish and chief strategist.

Its easier to think (especially if you lost money in Luna/FTX) that there is some conspiracy involved rather than that it was just because of stupidity and greed of people in charge. And the more info comes out about the ways FTX operated, its more obvious that it was more their megalomania than anything else. CZ tweet and Coindesk article probably just speed things up but if they did a legit business and didn't mismanaged users fund, no FUD could touch them.

I consider him so in general terms, but in personal terms I consider him a smart guy who is always ahead of thr happenings in the crypto world. His empire is too large and he cannot be easily taken down. What makes him bleed will largely affect the whole crypto industry.

Problem is that even smart people (and its safe assume that CZ is a smart and capable guy) do stupid things that bring their companies down, not just in crypto but in general so no matter how big Binance is (and I often hear people saying for them that they are "too big to fail") they could still fail.

[posi]

I consider him so in general terms, but in personal terms I consider him a smart guy who is always ahead of thr happenings in the crypto world. His empire is too large and he cannot be easily taken down. What makes him bleed will largely affect the whole crypto industry.

Problem is that even smart people (and its safe assume that CZ is a smart and capable guy) do stupid things that bring their companies down, not just in crypto but in general so no matter how big Binance is (and I often hear people saying for them that they are "too big to fail") they could still fail.

It is possible for anything to happen, even bitcoin is not 100% guaranteed not to fail in the future. Binance could still collapse like other companies, but it is highly unlikely that it will die now or in the near future. All are centralized exchanges, dead FTX or dead Lunc doesn't mean binance will die or ETH will die like Lunc, they are still completely independent entities from each other. Similar in the past, Mt.gox died but looking at the coinbase it still stands to this day.