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Author Topic: Fidelity opens bitcoin trading  (Read 250 times)
tabas (OP)
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November 29, 2022, 08:54:47 PM
 #1

Fidelity just opened bitcoin trading accounts. What this means to the market? Fidelity is one of the biggest assets manager or a financial institutions worldwide. To know more, you can just visit their website directly.
I think they just did it on time because of how FTX messed up, they're the ones that's catching all of those customers that they've left. But, I don't want to celebrate early on this one. It's another centralized platform but I don't know how it will be done by them. What can you say about this news? Are you bullish? Or are you worried as another big financial institution and centralized platform gets in?

Certain users have received emails detailing their new access to purchase and sell bitcoin on the Fidelity platform.

I wonder aside from buying and selling, will they allow to withdraw those bitcoins and it's not just going to be an appearing number on their customers account?

Source: FIDELITY BEGINS OPENING RETAIL BITCOIN TRADING ACCOUNTS

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November 30, 2022, 05:46:20 AM
 #2

Just a little correction! It has not yet started but just got announced that they are very close to starting it. Read the news here,

https://www.fidelity.com/crypto/trading

They have started registering interest from the market. Also you need to note one very important point from their website FAQ section,

Quote
Can I transfer crypto into and out of my Fidelity CryptoSM account?
In this early version of Fidelity Crypto you won't be able to receive or send cryptocurrency transfers. But we're always working on new features. Turn on your notifications to receive updates.

So it's very similar to what Paypal offers in the market already. Trade and take your profit in fiat. No crypto transfer is allowed at this moment.

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November 30, 2022, 07:03:40 AM
 #3

The link states that they have been involved in BTC for a very long time now, in other ways by the way:
Quote
Fidelity has been active in the bitcoin industry for some time — according to the company website, it began mining bitcoin in 2014. In addition, it launched a spot bitcoin ETF in Canada in December of 2021.
I guess i can say Fidelity have been a pro BTC company for a long time now, but probably because of 'anti-BTC' and crypto regulatory laws in the United States their support can't be massive as they face criticism for them:
Quote
The financial services giant’s interest in bitcoin has not come without criticism, having been the subject of U.S. senators’ scrutiny for its offering of a 401k plan that allows users to allocate to bitcoin.
Are you bullish? Or are you worried as another big financial institution and centralized platform gets in?
I am neither bullish that this will have a price effect, nor because of this centralized platform getting involved in BTC trade because i don't feel people would create new accouts on Fidelity just to trade BTC when there are crypto exchanges available to them that gives them so many options to trade; so the people who would probably use this are BTC people who already use Fidelity, and it may also encourage non bitcoiners to try it out too.

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November 30, 2022, 07:54:47 AM
Last edit: November 30, 2022, 08:14:12 AM by franky1
 #4

fidelity is not trading crypto right now. its a invite for updates to future possible trading platform later on

anyway lets review their terms to see how it treats customers

https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/terms-of-use
they dont have a "user agreement" yet but in the general terms of use a couple highlights

in short
1. they don't prompt you to read / press an accept terms update button
2. at time of posting. its not regulated in the US and operates as a trust not a exchange
3. they can cut and run any time, any reason without notice and you cant sue them or try to claim against them

[1].
Quote
These Terms are a binding agreement between you and FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS. By using or accessing the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites, you accept and agree to be bound by these Terms. Your use of the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites are governed by the version of the Terms in effect on the date each site is accessed by you. FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS may modify these Terms at any time and without prior notice. You should review the most current version of these Terms by visiting the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites and clicking the Terms of Use hyperlink

[2].
Quote
Custody and trading of crypto are provided by Fidelity Digital Asset Services, LLC, a New York State-chartered limited liability trust company (NMLS ID 1773897) (“Fidelity Digital Assets”). Crypto is not insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or the Securities Investor Protection Corporation (“SIPC”).

Quote
Fidelity Digital Asset Services, LLC is a New York State-chartered limited liability trust company (NMLS ID 1773897). FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS is not registered in any capacity with the US Securities and Exchange Commission, the US Commodity Futures Trading Commission or any state or federal securities or commodities regulatory authority. FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS is not registered as a broker-dealer or investment adviser.

3.
Quote
As a condition of your use of the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites, you agree to indemnify and hold the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS COMPANIES and their Third-Party Content providers harmless from and against any and all claims, losses, liability, costs and expenses (including but not limited to attorneys' fees) arising from your use of the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites, or from your violation of these Terms.

Unless otherwise agreed, FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS may discontinue or modify the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites at any time without prior notice to you, and you accept those modifications if you continue to use the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites.

Termination
FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS may terminate your access to the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites for any reason, without prior notice.

the part(3) is strange. because most GOOD services still allow account access, but will suspend the 'trading/market' option/service within a users account. so that users can still see balances and also withdraw balance while being suspended from 'using the service to do any trading'

it seems if they ban you. they really do ban you, rather then suspend your trading activity and asking you to take your money and leave

the part(2) think of them currently more like greyscale rather than coinbase (totally different business models)


the part(1) is strange. instead of emailing an announcement of term changes prompting you to read it. they expect you to check it regularly. this means of you are a custodian hoarder, that doesnt day-trade. your expected to regularly inspect them, rather then them inform you of any changes to your contract with them


I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 30, 2022, 08:23:29 AM
 #5

This is a good development as far as I know, but it would not in any way make cryptos bullish, it would only excite the market. Fidelity as far as I know has been showing interest in the crypto space for a while but treads cautiously. Maybe it's time for them to use their resources to fit in the collapse of FTX. And if I should be asked, I would say it's the right thing to do for a serious company that has all it takes.

This is because they are already in the financial and investment world before the opportunity.

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November 30, 2022, 08:35:10 AM
 #6

As pointed out already, this is pure trading/speculation. NOT investment or storing digital assets, which I think it already does separately.

This version of Fidelity does not have a Bitcoin wallet, that to me is very clear that it makes it no different from having a Paypal account. You can "buy" Bitcoin but in reality you're just buying an IOU from a trader, who probably never even actually goes to have a bitcoin in his wallet.

It's just a guy with a lot of money (liquidity) from others and he's opening new trading markets.

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November 30, 2022, 08:45:35 AM
 #7

If the Michael Saylor microstrategy company could not make much impact in affecting the bitcoin price despite it's continuous buy and accumulation of bitcoin then i think Fidelity is too small compared to microstrategy neither will it intent to accept bitcoin will make any glaring difference with the price, the demand and supply analysis goes beyond this alone because bitcoin is widely distributed across the globe and people are buying and selling each day, the shift in equilibrium is determined only by it supplying and demand capacity after considering daily market cap and volume, fidelity could also take this good opportunity with bitcoin for it financial decentralization benefit.

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November 30, 2022, 09:04:15 AM
 #8

users should really try to keep an eye on the user agreement of how it treats its customers.

if (when open) fidelity operates more like greyscale than coinbase when it opens. because trusts do not treat the coin deposited as the customers. the customers are given shares which represent an % of an allotment of the trusts holdings

if (when open) fidelity operates more like coinbase than greyscale when it opens. because exchanges can have terms that dont let users get their funds out if unregulated or if they have certain business terms

from learning about many exchanges and services in recent weeks. dont just blindly adore and believe in a brand because you recognise the name..
read the terms of service/user agreement for how it treats the customers assets and be risk aware

seems a few people in this topic are already blindly hyping up and getting exciting and just taking things on utopian face value that its all rosy and sunshine..

handing any funds to a custodian/trust/exchange should be where people are educating each other to be cautious and check on who they are giving funds to.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 30, 2022, 12:08:49 PM
 #9

Looks interesting. Fidelity has log been one of the more conservative brokers out there in terms of what they offer. Looks like they are slowly starting to try to offer crypto services instead of just opening up the floodgates. Not sure if it's a better or worse way to do it.

Since a lot of the people using Fidelity are people who may or may not be familiar with crypto I can see them having different tiers of what is available, much like they do with some of their regular offerings. i.e. certain types of accounts can't margin trade while others can go to 90%

As with everything with big business, it's probably going to be a long slow process for it to be fully implemented.

-Dave

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November 30, 2022, 01:29:53 PM
 #10


They are a big institution, they will probably be working together with CFTC and SEC just like FTX.
And they are going to be like FTX again. Considering the timing of its near launch, they are probably looking at those guys who are still gullible enough to trust an exchange like FTX. We were advised to withdraw assets from exchanges and now we are back again to trusting a CEX. Not your keys, not your coins.


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December 01, 2022, 06:45:37 AM
 #11

Just a little correction! It has not yet started but just got announced that they are very close to starting it. Read the news here,

https://www.fidelity.com/crypto/trading

They have started registering interest from the market. Also you need to note one very important point from their website FAQ section,

Quote
Can I transfer crypto into and out of my Fidelity CryptoSM account?
In this early version of Fidelity Crypto you won't be able to receive or send cryptocurrency transfers. But we're always working on new features. Turn on your notifications to receive updates.

So it's very similar to what Paypal offers in the market already. Trade and take your profit in fiat. No crypto transfer is allowed at this moment.
Yeah, that's what I thought of and made me think if they're going to push through by allowing crypto to crypto deposits and withdrawals soon. PayPal took time until that happened and probably had been pushed because of the feedback of the community.

I am neither bullish that this will have a price effect, nor because of this centralized platform getting involved in BTC trade because i don't feel people would create new accouts on Fidelity just to trade BTC when there are crypto exchanges available to them that gives them so many options to trade; so the people who would probably use this are BTC people who already use Fidelity, and it may also encourage non bitcoiners to try it out too.
Well, it's like a test run on their customers that have received the email for those that are eligible to do bitcoin trading on them. But as said, it's not yet on the go but they've just announced it. So for now, too many things to consider and those that are eligible for it might really try them and will get a statistics for it on how it will result. And yes, it's only for their existing customers so no outsiders yet.

3.
Quote
As a condition of your use of the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites, you agree to indemnify and hold the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS COMPANIES and their Third-Party Content providers harmless from and against any and all claims, losses, liability, costs and expenses (including but not limited to attorneys' fees) arising from your use of the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites, or from your violation of these Terms.

Unless otherwise agreed, FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS may discontinue or modify the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites at any time without prior notice to you, and you accept those modifications if you continue to use the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites.

Termination
FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS may terminate your access to the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites for any reason, without prior notice.

the part(3) is strange. because most GOOD services still allow account access, but will suspend the 'trading/market' option/service within a users account. so that users can still see balances and also withdraw balance while being suspended from 'using the service to do any trading'

it seems if they ban you. they really do ban you, rather then suspend your trading activity and asking you to take your money and leave
I think most exchanges are doing that, when they ban and suspend your account you have no other option but only given to withdraw the remaining funds on your account. What seems to be highlight on this 3rd part is about the first part including the "claims and losses" part.

This is a good development as far as I know, but it would not in any way make cryptos bullish, it would only excite the market. Fidelity as far as I know has been showing interest in the crypto space for a while but treads cautiously. Maybe it's time for them to use their resources to fit in the collapse of FTX. And if I should be asked, I would say it's the right thing to do for a serious company that has all it takes.

This is because they are already in the financial and investment world before the opportunity.
Yeah, they're already in the market for so long and it's a timely action that they've been able to announce this so that they'll at least get customers from the fall of FTX. But for the most, we still know that this is a centralized exchange although known for its financial service, who knows what can happen in the future but as for the development, we both agree that it's good.

As pointed out already, this is pure trading/speculation. NOT investment or storing digital assets, which I think it already does separately.

This version of Fidelity does not have a Bitcoin wallet, that to me is very clear that it makes it no different from having a Paypal account. You can "buy" Bitcoin but in reality you're just buying an IOU from a trader, who probably never even actually goes to have a bitcoin in his wallet.

It's just a guy with a lot of money (liquidity) from others and he's opening new trading markets.
I guess the thing about them is that they're already known in the sector of finance and that's why it's sort of a big news for majority. And as what everyone has said, it's like a PayPal thing but we don't know if they'll apply as soon as possible when they operate if they'll move like an actual exchange such as Binance, etc.

If the Michael Saylor microstrategy company could not make much impact in affecting the bitcoin price despite it's continuous buy and accumulation of bitcoin then i think Fidelity is too small compared to microstrategy neither will it intent to accept bitcoin will make any glaring difference with the price, the demand and supply analysis goes beyond this alone because bitcoin is widely distributed across the globe and people are buying and selling each day, the shift in equilibrium is determined only by it supplying and demand capacity after considering daily market cap and volume, fidelity could also take this good opportunity with bitcoin for it financial decentralization benefit.
Props to him but I can say that he had made a difference during the bull run with such news that had been released about his moves. This time, any good news won't affect that much because it's hard to beat up the bearish sentiment of the market. When it's come to their capitalization, $10B is for Fidelity and around $1B for Microstrategy. With the reach of both for their customers, they'll still contribute to the market when it's back bullish.

users should really try to keep an eye on the user agreement of how it treats its customers.

if (when open) fidelity operates more like greyscale than coinbase when it opens. because trusts do not treat the coin deposited as the customers. the customers are given shares which represent an % of an allotment of the trusts holdings

if (when open) fidelity operates more like coinbase than greyscale when it opens. because exchanges can have terms that dont let users get their funds out if unregulated or if they have certain business terms

from learning about many exchanges and services in recent weeks. dont just blindly adore and believe in a brand because you recognise the name..
read the terms of service/user agreement for how it treats the customers assets and be risk aware

seems a few people in this topic are already blindly hyping up and getting exciting and just taking things on utopian face value that its all rosy and sunshine..

handing any funds to a custodian/trust/exchange should be where people are educating each other to be cautious and check on who they are giving funds to.
You're right about that and I agree. And as you've said about it earlier, they're not yet operating and it's just going to happen for their existing and chosen customers which means to say that it's not yet open to the public. Having that said, at least we'll be able to see how it's going to roll to its existing customers, and we'll hear for sure feedbacks from them.

Looks interesting. Fidelity has log been one of the more conservative brokers out there in terms of what they offer. Looks like they are slowly starting to try to offer crypto services instead of just opening up the floodgates. Not sure if it's a better or worse way to do it.

Since a lot of the people using Fidelity are people who may or may not be familiar with crypto I can see them having different tiers of what is available, much like they do with some of their regular offerings. i.e. certain types of accounts can't margin trade while others can go to 90%

As with everything with big business, it's probably going to be a long slow process for it to be fully implemented.

-Dave
And what's good that I can see on it, those that are not yet versed with crypto will have an idea on how it goes since it will be added to their accounts availability. At least, that's the beauty of this news that those who wants to step in to the crypto market, they'll be introduced by Fidelity.

Nothing special. As long as it's a centralized platform, there is no different from other centralized exchanges (CEX). And they say there is no commission for your trades (free), but there is a spread charge. It's still a fee (for me), same with other CEX.

Quote
*You will not be charged a commission on bitcoin or ether (“crypto”) trades placed through Fidelity Crypto. Fidelity Digital Assets will collect a spread (assessed at no more than 1%) calculated as the difference between the price at which you buy or sell crypto in your Fidelity Crypto account and the price at which Fidelity Digital Assets fills your order. This spread will be reflected in your execution price. For an initial period, Fidelity Digital Assets may in its discretion decide not to charge a spread. Fees are subject to change.
Source: Fidelity.com-footnote

Maybe it would be more interesting if they made a decentralized trading platform.
Most new exchanges are having that type of promo regards to their fees but eventually, when they've been established with their users they'll suddenly change the terms a little by little. The idea of making a dex platform, I think the name of theirs will still tied on it and people would still have the impression like this; "a dex that's made by a cex".

How come Fidelity catches FTX customer while the customer funds is already stuck on the FTX by the time FTX halt the withdrawal and file bankruptcy to save there company. There situation is with Celsius that gives no guarantee to all there users if they will still recover there funds or not. I doubt all the victims will still invest on services like this despite they are huge company. FTX is once the second largest crypto exchange in crypto yet they still fall with just some string pulled by high profile player like CZ.
It's about the idea if you get it that those people lost trust in exchanges like FTX, here comes Fidelity with a big name announces that soon they'll be able to open trading.

I think they will allow it since Coinbase and FTX is doing it. Only ETF is not approved to have a physical backed. They can do actual trading of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency by getting a license that same with Coinbase scope since US is already fully equipped by law for this kind of business.
Yes, it's just all about the time as they said they'll will add it soon.

They are a big institution, they will probably be working together with CFTC and SEC just like FTX.
And they are going to be like FTX again. Considering the timing of its near launch, they are probably looking at those guys who are still gullible enough to trust an exchange like FTX. We were advised to withdraw assets from exchanges and now we are back again to trusting a CEX. Not your keys, not your coins.
I won't defend them that they won't be like FTX because of how they big but we don't know what's the future in most of these companies. This is the crypto market, we've seen the best and the worst from it, we'll never know. But the thing as an individual, we're aware on how to keep our funds safe and not to trust them wholly.

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December 01, 2022, 11:26:38 AM
 #12

It’s just yet more evidence that bitcoin is becoming more attractive to investors. The average guy on the street now has a way to get in via a trustworthy broker. I am an advocate for self custody so this isn’t something that will be of interest to me but anything that brings new people into bitcoin is good.

I think we’ll see more & more major banks jumping on the bitcoin train. It’s either buy a ticket or get left behind.

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December 01, 2022, 12:00:26 PM
 #13

3.
Quote
As a condition of your use of the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites, you agree to indemnify and hold the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS COMPANIES and their Third-Party Content providers harmless from and against any and all claims, losses, liability, costs and expenses (including but not limited to attorneys' fees) arising from your use of the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites, or from your violation of these Terms.

Unless otherwise agreed, FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS may discontinue or modify the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites at any time without prior notice to you, and you accept those modifications if you continue to use the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites.

Termination
FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS may terminate your access to the FIDELITY DIGITAL ASSETS Sites for any reason, without prior notice.

the part(3) is strange. because most GOOD services still allow account access, but will suspend the 'trading/market' option/service within a users account. so that users can still see balances and also withdraw balance while being suspended from 'using the service to do any trading'

it seems if they ban you. they really do ban you, rather then suspend your trading activity and asking you to take your money and leave
I think most exchanges are doing that, when they ban and suspend your account you have no other option but only given to withdraw the remaining funds on your account. What seems to be highlight on this 3rd part is about the first part including the "claims and losses" part.

fidelity ban all access to whole site. at its unwarned un-reasoned discretion
however many crypto exchanges that are regulated allow access to site but suspend services inside the site to only allow balance view/withdraw as options

take coinbase binance who do good access-policy
vs greyscale that do full website no warning policy

users should really try to keep an eye on the user agreement of how it treats its customers.

if (when open) fidelity operates more like greyscale than coinbase when it opens. because trusts do not treat the coin deposited as the customers. the customers are given shares which represent an % of an allotment of the trusts holdings

if (when open) fidelity operates more like coinbase than greyscale when it opens. because exchanges can have terms that dont let users get their funds out if unregulated or if they have certain business terms

from learning about many exchanges and services in recent weeks. dont just blindly adore and believe in a brand because you recognise the name..
read the terms of service/user agreement for how it treats the customers assets and be risk aware

seems a few people in this topic are already blindly hyping up and getting exciting and just taking things on utopian face value that its all rosy and sunshine..

handing any funds to a custodian/trust/exchange should be where people are educating each other to be cautious and check on who they are giving funds to.
You're right about that and I agree. And as you've said about it earlier, they're not yet operating and it's just going to happen for their existing and chosen customers which means to say that it's not yet open to the public. Having that said, at least we'll be able to see how it's going to roll to its existing customers, and we'll hear for sure feedbacks from them.
i wouldnt be a "wait and see, lets get feedback over time after people use it" kind of guy

after all in 2018-2022(sept) all feedback of FTX was ass kissing positive.. and look what happened.. feed back is only good.. until its bad. then its too late. so dont rely on feedback as source of trust.
research and checking the source(due diligence) is better

its always best and a heck of alot faster to read the terms as the terms usually show how customer friendly and accountable they want to be. right from the start

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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December 01, 2022, 02:09:23 PM
 #14

Well it's not an exchange, it's a trading platform.

So I'm not really worried about "not your keys" or  Failure of Fidelity.

Hopefully and it's a way to get maybe a 5 or 10 percent exposure in my 401k if not then the IRA.

Trading, get it on the pinwheel and rebalance.

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December 08, 2022, 06:13:01 AM
 #15

Fighting against Bitcoin will do no good for the government. It will be a waste of money and time for it. But certain controls can be put in place to reduce the monopoly of Bitcoin.
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December 08, 2022, 07:37:09 AM
 #16

fidelity is not trading crypto right now. its a invite for updates to future possible trading platform later on

anyway lets review their terms to see how it treats customers

https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/terms-of-use
they dont have a "user agreement" yet but in the general terms of use a couple highlights

in short
1. they don't prompt you to read / press an accept terms update button
2. at time of posting. its not regulated in the US and operates as a trust not a exchange
3. they can cut and run any time, any reason without notice and you cant sue them or try to claim against them

From the happenings around exchanges and some trading platforms it seems that conventional banks and stock markets are even more reliable than them. Conventional banks are insured by the country's deposit insurance companies but these exchanges have no such backings. The terms and conditions of Fidelity is harsh and most investors or users would not be patient enough to read them. Customers would carefully read these rules only when there are issues to ascertain if there are avenues to recover their funds. It wouldn't be a bad idea for government to force these exchanges or trading platforms to deposit certain funds that would be enough to settle their customers in case of bankruptcy.  

R


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December 08, 2022, 05:56:07 PM
 #17

This is a sign that many customers are connected to Bitcoin investment, because every banks don't want to loose their customers than to pay attention to their customers not to loose them to another bank. If they can make it suitable for bitcoiners  without a high tax for bitcoiners, I guess it will attract more people to start Bitcoin trading with fidelity bank, because Bitcoin investors increasing every day which it will give bank more customers that will make their income improve.

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