Bestchange keeps scammer exchangers and probably collaborates with them

[fixedfloat]

Regarding your screenshot, where two reviews are displayed, where we allegedly froze user funds for no reason - we all have evidence that user funds were obtained fraudulently. We never block our clients' funds without having a reason to do so. In both cases, an inspection was carried out both on our part and on the part of the monitoring to which we provided all the evidence for each of the incidents.

after you block suspicious funds, what do you do with them?
Do you keep it for yourself, return it to the same address where it came from or something else?

We cannot make a refund to the same address because the address is compromised. We are starting the refund procedure for the victim.

We are as loyal as possible to our customers, however, if there is information about specific crimes and the processing of orders related to these transactions, our service may be recognized as an accomplice in a crime and, as a result, be closed.

By placing an order on our website, they agreed to the rules of our service, which include a clause prohibiting the use of our service for any illegal purposes.

why can't I find any information about your company on your website?
Are you a legally registered exchanger or just use the possible loophole that limitless_777 mentioned here?

We work all over the world, based in the Seychelles.

an inspection was carried out both on our part and on the part of the monitoring to which we provided all the evidence for each of the incidents.

Are you actively working with Blockchain Analysis companies to analyze each and every transaction coming through your wallets?  How do you they work so quickly to give a final answer within a matter of minutes as to whether or not a transaction is related to crime?

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Regards,
PrivacyG

We analyze transactions to addresses that are in our blocklist. In this blocklist, we add addresses that are transmitted by our partners (other exchanges and services) who are aware of the facts of fraud and theft, as well as from victims who come to us with a statement that their funds were stolen.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[1714518849]

1714518849

[1714518849]

1714518849

[PrivacyG]

So all it takes to seize my funds is someone who victimizes and declares my address is owned by a criminal?

We cannot make a refund to the same address because the address is compromised. We are starting the refund procedure for the victim.

If I get my funds seized and I do not want to submit proof of origin of my funds.  What happens with the funds, do I get a refund?

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Regards,
PrivacyG

[dkbit98]

In addition, we repeat once again that we never request the personal data of our customers, in order not to affect their anonymity, we only request information about the origin of funds, which is easy to provide

I don't know what origin of funds exactly means, but I am sure it includes some kind of customer personal information.
If this is so easy, can you also prove origin of all coins you own as a business, I am sure it's much easier for you to do this?
Can you please tell us what magical tools are you using that proves some coins are coming from hacks and stolen funds??

We cannot make a refund to the same address because the address is compromised. We are starting the refund procedure for the victim.

So is this customer limitless_777 also being refunded to other address or not?

[ScamViruS]

We analyze transactions to addresses that are in our blocklist. In this blocklist, we add addresses that are transmitted by our partners (other exchanges and services) who are aware of the facts of fraud and theft, as well as from victims who come to us with a statement that their funds were stolen.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Do you actually block the address with someone's statement or verify some other information? It is also important to be 100% sure whether the complainant's funds have actually been stolen or not. I don't know how easy it is to analyze someone's transection so finely and I have no idea how high quality tools you use. It will be really interesting if you discuss in detail, so that crypto users can also be careful.

[PrivacyG]

I don't know what origin of funds exactly means, but I am sure it includes some kind of customer personal information.
If this is so easy, can you also prove origin of all coins you own as a business, I am sure it's much easier for you to do this?
Can you please tell us what magical tools are you using that proves some coins are coming from hacks and stolen funds??

Calling B. S. on their statement and am going to put their Exchange on my own black list.  Wondering if they are going to avoid answering the questions again, as this is what it feels like reading their responses.  They earned good money from me so far but this stops here.

Origin of funds obviously is not Blockchain information.  And even that could be personal.

Let me explain my situation.  I have funds coming from Monero to Bitcoin through Bisq trades, and I obviously do not know where that money has been previously before arriving in my Bitcoin Wallet nor do I even care.  I do not own some of my Bisq seeds any more.  If I send my Bitcoin to Fixed Float and they see I received some Bitcoin that moved through 'blocklisted' addresses three transactions prior to mine, how is it fair that I get my funds seized?  How do I prove origin of funds?

Most of my Bitcoin, even I have no idea where they came from any more.  They are just there, legally obtained but ask me to prove the origin and I have no idea where to start.  Because they have been through too much history.  Do I deserve my funds to be taken away from me?

Like yes, we will seize your funds if our friends say your address is bad.  Who decides my address is bad and how?  Is it not just very easy to use this reason to seize a few dozen thousands just because someone told us it comes from bad origin?

As I stated in my other answer.  Seizing for 'bad origins' is mostly used to legally selectively scam customers.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

[holydarkness]

[...]In addition, we repeat once again that we never request the personal data of our customers, in order not to affect their anonymity, we only request information about the origin of funds, which is easy to provide[...]

[...]
We work all over the world, based in the Seychelles.

[...]

While others are curious about how do you know and decide that a fund coming into your platform acquired illegally or not --which, an interesting topic for me too, but since other members has asked about this, I won't repeat the question-- I am more interested on this topic.

Were you required by the govt. where you're basing your office on to ask about this? On my previous post about AML compliance, I do say that financial institutions on several countries are required to conduct KYC, but I have no awareness that the AML --or even ATF-- extend to such length for financial institutions.

Speaking for my own country --which will remain unspecified-- even centralized financial institutions are not allowed to ask for their customers to provide proof of funds origin. Asking where from and what for? Sure, they asked that, but their customer may just said whatever crossed their mind. "My goldfish died yesterday and inherited me 1 trillion dollars, which currently you're seeing right now. For what does the funds for? Well, I'd like to build shelters for homeless koi fish" and the bank would accepted that answer without asking their customer to provide the proof of... will... by the goldfish. The authority to ask for proof of fund's origin fall into the hand of the govt. themselves, specifically their tax and financial dept. upon investigation.

Recently I even learned that during a preliminary investigation of tax evasion and/or money laundering, the tax dept. --similar to IRS, I think-- staffs are not allowed to ask for the source of money too, let alone to ask the "suspect" to provide proof of source. They only allowed to ask for confirmation if the said person owned certain value and assets that they flagged and where from. It's until further investigation of AML and tax evasion that the person are obligated to provide the proof of sources and other articles asked. And I'm talking about the govt. themselves here, the one who held kinda "absolute" power. So how does a decentralized org. in your country required and given an authority to ask for the same is... beyond me.

But, I'm also aware and understand that different country applies different rules. Maybe IRS staff may asked what the tax staff in my country aren't allowed to. So, since you're stating that you're based in Sechyelles, could you point us to the regulation article specifically mentioning this matter? I'm sure we're one google away to verify that if you can help with the article number.

[LoyceV]

Who decides my address is bad and how?

The companies who earn money from selling their taint-detection-services of course! They're also the ones who have all financial interests in promoting the crazy idea that taint even exists, because without it, they'd be out of business.

We analyze transactions to addresses that are in our blocklist. In this blocklist, we add addresses that are transmitted by our partners (other exchanges and services) who are aware of the facts of fraud and theft, as well as from victims who come to us with a statement that their funds were stolen.

This sounds awfully arbitrary. Can you start by publishing your "blocklist", so customers can check if their addresses are on it before sending their funds to your exchange?

[examplens]

We cannot make a refund to the same address because the address is compromised. We are starting the refund procedure for the victim.

so besides being an exchanger, you are also the police, prosecutor and judge. I wonder who gave you the licence for that.

can you present a successful example here where you confiscated dirty money and returned it to the victim? I mean example with all evidence.

We work all over the world, based in the Seychelles.

 
this information is certainly reassuring and instils confidence in all your clients. at some point, you ask for all KYC information from the user, while we know nothing about you. it's a bit excessive for someone who presents himself as a judge, prosecutor, or exchanger...

[fixedfloat]

So all it takes to seize my funds is someone who victimizes and declares my address is owned by a criminal?

We cannot make a refund to the same address because the address is compromised. We are starting the refund procedure for the victim.

If I get my funds seized and I do not want to submit proof of origin of my funds.  What happens with the funds, do I get a refund?

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Regards,
PrivacyG

Of course, we do not trust unfounded accusations of anyone, but we also cannot ignore incoming information. As we said earlier, each incident is considered individually and a full investigation is conducted. All evidence is carefully considered. We receive information about thefts and fraud from our partners (other exchanges and cryptocurrency services) and victims who contact us.

In order to continue the exchange or return the money, we must make sure that the funds were received honestly, as well as get all the information about the source of the funds received. If the client for some reason cannot provide us with information about the source of the funds received, then he can contact the law enforcement authorities of his country to initiate a criminal case, this will greatly simplify the process of dealing with the incident.

We do not request KYC, as we value the confidentiality of our customers, but only information about the source of the funds received. It is easy to prove the honesty of receiving funds by providing the requested data. If the user has nothing to do with the crime and did not know that the funds he received were criminal, then we have no reason to withhold these funds.

[fixedfloat]

Who decides my address is bad and how?

The companies who earn money from selling their taint-detection-services of course! They're also the ones who have all financial interests in promoting the crazy idea that taint even exists, because without it, they'd be out of business.

We analyze transactions to addresses that are in our blocklist. In this blocklist, we add addresses that are transmitted by our partners (other exchanges and services) who are aware of the facts of fraud and theft, as well as from victims who come to us with a statement that their funds were stolen.

This sounds awfully arbitrary. Can you start by publishing your "blocklist", so customers can check if their addresses are on it before sending their funds to your exchange?

Of course, we will not publish the blocking list, since we do not cooperate with cryptocurrency scammers and thieves, we treat them extremely negatively and believe that they bring huge harm to the entire crypto community. Many of our employees have also been hacked and caught in fraud before, so we are well aware of how difficult it can be to recover lost funds.

If the funds are stolen or from the darkmarket, we do not recommend making exchanges on our service, since we do not support fraud in any form.

[LoyceV]

In order to continue the exchange or return the money, we must make sure that the funds were received honestly, as well as get all the information about the source of the funds received.

Okay, hypothetical: let's say you've blocked my funds, and I tell you I got it from the Currency Exchange board. A simple, honest p2p trade. Is that enough for you to return my funds?

[fixedfloat]

[...]In addition, we repeat once again that we never request the personal data of our customers, in order not to affect their anonymity, we only request information about the origin of funds, which is easy to provide[...]

[...]
We work all over the world, based in the Seychelles.

[...]

But, I'm also aware and understand that different country applies different rules. Maybe IRS staff may asked what the tax staff in my country aren't allowed to. So, since you're stating that you're based in Sechyelles, could you point us to the regulation article specifically mentioning this matter? I'm sure we're one google away to verify that if you can help with the article number.

Seychelles does not regulate these issues. However, we work as an international company and are obliged to respond to requests from law enforcement agencies for information, as well as the freezing of funds. Otherwise, sanctions may be imposed on our service, as a result of which the existence of the service will be impossible.

[PrivacyG]

In order to continue the exchange or return the money, we must make sure that the funds were received honestly, as well as get all the information about the source of the funds received.

cannot provide us with information
information about the source of the funds
providing the requested data

All the information about the source of the funds received.  Like what?  In an investigation, what kind of information is requested as proof of origin?  You are being too vague.

I will provide you a hypothetical scenario.  I send 0.5 BTC to your Exchange address.  My 0.5 BTC were obtained from Bisq, but I have long since uninstalled Bisq so I have no screenshots or recorded proof of origin.  The transaction before mine was a hit man payment.  You have evidence of this, I have no idea about it.  What exactly would Fixed Float request me to provide as proof of origin?

If the user has nothing to do with the crime and did not know that the funds he received were criminal, then we have no reason to withhold these funds.

So if tomorrow all your customers deposit Coins from illegal sources they did not know about, you are perfectly fine with your company exchanging funds with criminal origin?

If LoyceV receives Bitcoin from a criminal origin, proves to be innocent and forwards the amount to me.  Exchanging funds with criminal history on Fixed Float is now fine?

Of course, we will not publish the blocking list, since we do not cooperate with cryptocurrency scammers and thieves,

Why not publish it?  I want to know who on the Blockchain is a known confirmed criminal with strong evidence so I can avoid them.  How else do you want me to have Bitcoin earned from legitimate origins if I do not even know who are the illegitimates first of all?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[holydarkness]

But, I'm also aware and understand that different country applies different rules. Maybe IRS staff may asked what the tax staff in my country aren't allowed to. So, since you're stating that you're based in Sechyelles, could you point us to the regulation article specifically mentioning this matter? I'm sure we're one google away to verify that if you can help with the article number.

Seychelles does not regulate these issues. However, we work as an international company and are obliged to respond to requests from law enforcement agencies for information, as well as the freezing of funds. Otherwise, sanctions may be imposed on our service, as a result of which the existence of the service will be impossible.

You mean as in morally obligated? As in you're not actually required by Sechyelles, but you want to be a law abiding citizen and friendly neighborhood err... exchange, so you choose to be nosy and ask for the sources? Or is it legally obligated by some international law? I can understand that maybe there's a global law that applied against AML-ATF that we are somehow didn't aware of its existence. But rest assured, you can just state the article number and we're back on track. The question, simplified, is: are you just being nosy or can you point us to the regulation that made you authorized to ask people to provide proof of source of fund.

It'll be quite a different story if by asking to provide, you were meaning to say that your clients just needed to state where it came from without actually providing the proof of transaction, written contract, etc. just like my illustration with the bank staff and my goldfish. For this, though, you'll then intersect with and have to answer LoyceV's question above. And if I may jump in and broaden the hypothetical scenario, the fund is actually came from harmful source and will actually be used for terrorism funding. Is simply saying someone got it from p2p board enough?

Of course, we will not publish the blocking list, since we do not cooperate with cryptocurrency scammers and thieves, we treat them extremely negatively and believe that they bring huge harm to the entire crypto community. Many of our employees have also been hacked and caught in fraud before, so we are well aware of how difficult it can be to recover lost funds.

If the funds are stolen or from the darkmarket, we do not recommend making exchanges on our service, since we do not support fraud in any form.

Why not? You contradict your own statement. You're not cooperating with scammers and thieves, not recommending to make exchanges with stolen fund and dark market, but you refuse to share the list? How is this being non-cooperative to the thieves? I can only think the benefits if you provide it than the disadvantages. For instance, everybody is just one ninjastic away to know whether they're dealing with a scammer or not and should they continue the transaction or terminate it before it waste their time any further, or get their fund blocked by you. Which also means, fewer things in your plate to do, since the transaction --thanks to your list-- didn't happen.

[LoyceV]

If LoyceV receives Bitcoin from a criminal origin, proves to be innocent and forwards the amount to me.  Exchanging funds with criminal history on Fixed Float is now fine?

This is exactly why fungibility is so important, and taint is a very dangerous attack on Bitcoin's existence. Bitcoin is electronic cash, and like cash, it doesn't matter who used the money before you. Whoever signs the transaction is the owner, that's how Bitcoin works.

[PrivacyG]

This is exactly why fungibility is so important, and taint is a very dangerous attack on Bitcoin's existence. Bitcoin is electronic cash, and like cash, it doesn't matter who used the money before you. Whoever signs the transaction is the owner, that's how Bitcoin works.

Well I mean these services need to decide, either they accept funds with a criminal history or they do not.  In other words.  Either they close down their service or not.  No way they can sit in between, because then they are seizing funds subjectively and selectively.  Your Bitcoin gets seized for having a criminal history but my Bitcoin with criminal history does not because they verified 3 pictures of my face?  Make it make sense.

Because if they decide to crack down funds with criminal history, they may as well seize and block every single transfer received and I should report every single Bitcoin transfer they make to my account to authorities as having a record of criminal history too.

Fixed Float, how many transactions prior to mine do they go back through and verify to qualify me as a Bitcoin owner suspicious of criminal activity?  2? 5? 25 or all the way back to the mined block?  I bet if I do another transaction on Fixed Float and go all the way block to where that amount came from, I would find at least one suspicious transaction.  Does that make Fixed Float legally liable for all that suspicious history?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[LoyceV]

Well I mean these services need to decide, either they accept funds with a criminal history or they do not.  In other words.  Either they close down their service or not.  No way they can sit in between, because then they are seizing funds subjectively and selectively.  Your Bitcoin gets seized for having a criminal history but my Bitcoin with criminal history does not because they verified 3 pictures of my face?  Make it make sense.

Exactly! None of those services disclose how they decide which funds are good or evil, so it's completely arbitrary. It's also a very recent thing that suddenly happens a lot on many different services, which (again) makes me think there's some strong marketing behind it. And that's not in the interest of Bitcoin users.

[dkbit98]

Seychelles does not regulate these issues. However, we work as an international company and are obliged to respond to requests from law enforcement agencies for information, as well as the freezing of funds. Otherwise, sanctions may be imposed on our service, as a result of which the existence of the service will be impossible.

Why are you avoiding to answer some of the questions asked by me and other members in this topic?
I asked few simple questions and I expect to get an answer from official representative of this exchange, not doing that doesn't look good.
So far I didn't saw any proof that you own any funds, and I doubt law enforcement from Seychelles ever contacted you about some bitcoin transactions or asked you to freeze coins.

I will repeat my questions to fixedfloat:
 -Can you tell us what  tools are you using to prove some coins are coming from hacks and stolen funds??
- Is customer limitless_777 also being refunded to other address?

[PrivacyG]

Their silence is starting to say more than they said in all their 5 posts on this thread.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

[holydarkness]

Their silence is starting to say more than they said in all their 5 posts on this thread.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

LOL, couldn't agree more about this. I've been thinking since yesterday that we're kinda scared them off by bombarding them with questions that'll expose them and their tendency towards unilateral decision and judge-playing; they've been online several times since their last post and stopped replying here. And as you said, the silence actually speaks louder than what they've been trying to say here with their posts.

I was considering about giving them couple of days, see if they'll go online and still intentionally ignoring the unanswered questions here --giving benefit of the doubt here, maybe the silence is because they're gathering data and proper answer-- and start a thread to warn people about their service. If anyone using their service are subjected to a russian roulette of fund freezing for stupid reason, they have the right to know what they're going into before they put their money on it.