Ledger Stax (Ledger's latest hardware wallet)

[OmegaStarScream]

Ledger is partnering with Tony Fadell (the creator of the iPod) to build a new hardware wallet 'Ledger Stax'.

The wallet is a credit card-sized device with embedded magnets so that multiple devices can easily be stacked. The outside is a wraparound e-ink display that can show transaction details and even NFTs.
The Ledger Stax will retail for $279, compared to $79 for the Nano S Plus and $149 for the Nano X wallet.

Your thoughts?

The wallet is going to be available by Q1 2023 but you can pre-order it now: https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax

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[Rikafip]

I wish they hired capable devs (or at least assigned enough manpower) to finally sort out their Ledger Live application, instead focusing on the hardware wallet exterior. But I guess this brings more money and that's what matters in the end.

[Charles-Tim]

Free shipping to my country, but the hardware wallet is expensive with just little to no additional functional features in relation to bitcoin transaction and storage. The secure element is still close source, just normal connections like bluetooth and USB.

Or maybe I am wrong. With a big screen, is it now airgapped in a way I can just only use QR code to make transactions?

When I was looking for wallet that support opt-in RBF, I was disappointed that Ledger Live was not among, I hope Ledger Live will support full RBF.

[NeuroticFish]

Your thoughts?

For me the old Nano S is still good enough and I agree that Ledger is again pursuing new directions - of course, they are supposed to bring more income - instead of fixing their actual (and old/known) problems that would keep their existing customers happy.

Should I add that it costs the same as a decent 2022 Android phone? I mean, come on...

[DireWolfM14]

Rather gimmicky, if you ask me.  I don't get the benefits of the magnetic stacking feature, or the wrap-around screen.

It seems like it's full of marketing gimmicks meant to attract those who are unfamiliar with hardware wallets in the first place.  Do they really expect people to buy multiples of these, when you can use the same hardware wallet with multiple accounts?

I may not be their intended demographic, I don't need my hardware wallet to store shitcoins or NFTs.  But if it's easy to use, and given Ledger's marketing budget I wouldn't be surprised to see many of these get sold.

[Pmalek]

It's evident that they are targeting the younger generations of crypto holders with this fancy-looking device with a big touchscreen that can stay always on for as long as the battery lasts. I don't see anything there that would attract me to it. It's interesting that there is no mention of the internal storage capacity and how many apps can be installed at the same time.

The positive thing is all-around support for both Windows, macOS, Android, and iOS. I agree that stacking the credit card-like devices seems stupid, especially considering their price. The battery seems phenomenal if the technical specifications are true. It can be charged wirelessly and can stay on stand-by for weeks and months depending on how often it gets used.   

They are stingy with the recovery sheets. Apparently, only one is provided in the box. I wonder if it's that difficult/expensive to include at least 2 if 3 is mission impossible? 

Anyone interested in preordering should read the bottom of https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax.
Ledger still needs to get their new HW wallet certified. If the required certification isn't obtained, I guess the production won't go ahead or it will be delayed. Those who preordered will in that case receive refunds. 

[DdmrDdmr]

I’ve gone through a bunch of videos that are now cropping up here and there, until I eventually came across a segment of a video that displays how the new model works (at least a basic glimpse of a TX):
https://youtu.be/XlE0BlXaQ0g?t=605

Other Videos I’ve gone through so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct0x31vhORY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlE0BlXaQ0g (encloses the above extract)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srwsw1VMai4

Personally, and this is just a first impression, I’m not that impressed. My mind is going over scenarios where I’d crack or break the screen, besides having to be wary of battery running down or eventually depleting it, storing it in a larger hiding place, making sure I don’t drop it, and so forth. The flashier it gets, the more delicate it becomes, and I’m happier off with a sturdier solution in any case.

The price is steep, and it doesn’t seem to take away the need to interface with Ledger Device or such either on a laptop or on a mobile phone. The name, if derived from the fact that you can stack them together (through embedded magnets), seems unbefitting, as that is not a feature to enhance by far.

All in all, I do like techy toys, but without further hands-on contact, that is what it seems to me at this stage.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Rather gimmicky, if you ask me.

My thoughts exactly. And not just harmless gimmicks, but gimmicks which actively compromise your security. Why on Earth would I want my hardware wallet to have my name displayed on it? So if I lose it an attacker knows who to $5 wrench attack to get the PIN? And why would I want it to display NFTs? So I can whip it out in public to show everyone my super expensive and rare NFT and make myself a target for attacks? And I really don't understand the stacking function. They want you to buy a separate device for each wallet? At $280? Lol. Or maybe you and your family members are meant to stack all your devices together in the same place to make it super easy for an attacker to steal them all at once?

Absolute nonsense. They should be focusing on things like Tor support and bitcoin only firmware, but I guess those things don't make money. So instead we get stupid gimmicks.

[dkbit98]

Your thoughts?

New closed source junk coming from ledger, that is way overpriced, and it's clearly oriented towards shitcoins and NFT circus show.
Paying €279 presale price for this device is a waste of money, but one thing I like is they are using E Ink touchscreen, something I suggested before that hardware wallets should use.
Bluetooth and Wireless is no go for me, and I don't see any real improvements and innovation compared to all other hardware wallets.
To be fair, I will have to wait for this device to be released before saying more, but for this price I would get Passport, Keystone, or several BitBox and Trezor wallets.

Absolute nonsense. They should be focusing on things like Tor support and bitcoin only firmware, but I guess those things don't make money. So instead we get stupid gimmicks.

Tor is not paying them anything, shitcoins are

[PrivacyG]

Rather gimmicky, if you ask me.  I don't get the benefits of the magnetic stacking feature, or the wrap-around screen.

Just for the looks.  They are clearly looking to just make their products more eye catching, nothing more to it.  Because clearly as Bitcoiners E-Ink displays and magnetic cases is what we were always waiting for.  Not Open Source components and software, not providing Bitcoin the very basic functions such as Message Signing, Replace By Fee and the likes in Ledger Live instead of supporting all sorts of Shit coins.

Who the heck would pay almost $300 for that?  There was an expensive device Ledger made before, it was Blue and whoever bought it is now crying as Ledger abandoned it.  What exactly guarantees me this $300 device will not end up the same way?

In the picture OP posted there is almost $1,150 worth of 'Stax'.  Why would I pay this much just to have a few blocks of External Solid State Drive looking hardware stacked on top of each other with magnets.  For at most a few hundred I can get myself a much better storage option for my Bitcoin and even buy a decent amount of Bitcoin with the change too.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[m2017]

I think that Stax is another beautiful toy from Ledger. Admittedly, this company knows how to lure buyers with an attractive and bright cover / wrapper.

You can't ignore the price. ~$280 is a bit pricey, but I'm sure there are geeks willing to buy this and brag about it every step of the way.

Also, I admit, the device looks nice, but this should not be the main function of the device. It is more important that the HW is reliable and safe for storing crypto, and not for flaunting the device at parties. It seems that the ledger focuses on the second, forgetting what exactly the hardware wallets is for.

[joniboini]

This is such a weird product. They claimed it was designed to travel wherever the user goes, but why would they bring an HW wallet when traveling in the first place? Or is there a new trend where people get a cold wallet when they take a trip? Bringing a hot wallet like a phone is probably the better choice, no need to carry two devices just to manage your crypto. I can see understand if it is like an NFC card or something similar like that. Since it is cheap and doesn't attract unwarranted attention, unlike this one.

Looking at how they promote this wallet, looks like their target is new retail investors who usually hold crypto on exchanges. Maybe one or two of their research department staff look at Reddit and see that this thing can sell since those people like fancy stuff, it is clearly not for me (and probably not for the majority of the user in this forum either). The price is also insane in my region, I can buy 3-4 Nano S for one of these, which is a better deal.

[Lucius]

At a time when most people still complain that hardware wallets are too expensive devices, Ledger decided to make one just like that - so all those who think that they should allocate several hundred $ for HW will have another reason to continue living in their illusions. I can say that this device reminds me of their abandoned Ledger Blue model, with of course some modifications - but I certainly wouldn't buy it because of the magnet and the fact that it can display NTFs.

Somehow, it doesn't seem to me that this device will be too popular, if for no other reason than for the price, which at least 90% of users are certainly not ready to pay.

[Pmalek]

My mind is going over scenarios where I’d crack or break the screen, besides having to be wary of battery running down or eventually depleting it

When it comes to the battery power, they claim it can stay on for weeks and months after one full charge. If that's true, it's quite impressive because I have never heard any other hardware wallet manufacturer to have such a feature.

Why on Earth would I want my hardware wallet to have my name displayed on it?

Maybe you can upload a picture of yourself and write down your address below it. Completely unnecessary. 

They claimed it was designed to travel wherever the user goes, but why would they bring an HW wallet when traveling in the first place? Or is there a new trend where people get a cold wallet when they take a trip? Bringing a hot wallet like a phone is probably the better choice, no need to carry two devices just to manage your crypto.

That's just marketing nonsense. However, you can't compare the security offered by a hardware wallet with that of a hot phone wallet. But there is nothing wrong with their other devices that would require me to purchase this $300 credit-card looking thingy as my travel companion. If I wanted a Ledger for travels, I would go for an additional cheaper one, not the most expensive and delicate HW.

[PrivacyG]

Maybe you can upload a picture of yourself and write down your address below it. Completely unnecessary. 

I would understand if it was a prototype and an experiment.

We had phones before with E-Ink displays on the back that shows weather, notifications, E-mails and so on at all times.  These had an utility, although nobody asked for it and nobody seems to want it anyway.

But to be honest, the only utility I see with Ledger's new product is someone wasting $2,799 on 10 of these Stax and using them to display some kind of meme made out of character map or an NFT split into 10 different long pieces.

Ledger is becoming the new Apple with these prices.  How will a discount look?  Get the Family Pack containing four Stax at only $1,150 $1,099, because it is definitely worth the deal?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[o_e_l_e_o]

Looking at how they promote this wallet, looks like their target is new retail investors who usually hold crypto on exchanges.

Maybe, but at the same time a lot of people who hold their coins on exchanges are very casual/small users, and they leave their coins on exchanges because they don't want to pay the $5 withdrawal fee that exchanges charge. These people certainly aren't going to buy a $280 hardware wallet when you can get a more secure one without all the stupid gimmicks for $50.

When it comes to the battery power, they claim it can stay on for weeks and months after one full charge. If that's true, it's quite impressive because I have never heard any other hardware wallet manufacturer to have such a feature.

This is marketing speak. Their definition of "on" in this sense will be that it will still display your NFT or your name or whatever other risky information you decide to display on the cover, but it won't actually be powered up for months at a time I'm certain. E-ink displays only use a tiny amount of power. As soon as you start doing resource intensive tasks with it like signing transactions then the battery life will reduce accordingly.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

If it's one thing I have learned in all my years (decades) interacting not only with crypto but technology in general is never to underestimate the potential of people to waste money on useless and unnecessary gadgets. This is just one of them. They certainly have the marketing budget to shill this one to the sky, and I am sure that's what they are going to do. I don't doubt we will also see a few celebrities advertising this thing as something you just have to own and those techniques will be enough. Don't forget that people are still camping outside of shops when a new model of their favorite item is ready to be officially unveiled. 

[Mitchell]

Somehow I cannot lose the feeling that this will become Ledger Blue 2.0. Just hope that I'll be proven wrong, as it does look amazing.

[SFR10]

Your thoughts?

It's an overkill ^{[e.g. wireless charging, curved/wrap-around screen and etc...]}!

Do they really expect people to buy multiples of these, when you can use the same hardware wallet with multiple accounts?

As much as I hate to say it, that's actually the case with some of their users and I'm not referring to those who have multiple Nano S devices ^{[as someone who visits their subreddit from time to time, I tend to see more than a few users that actually own multiple Nano X devices (here's one)]}.

but one thing I like is they are using E Ink touchscreen, something I suggested before that hardware wallets should use.

Is it normal for such display types to have a ghosting effect when it goes to another page or "this" is another one of Ledger's masterpieces?

[bitmover]

Anyone interested in preordering should read the bottom of https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax.
Ledger still needs to get their new HW wallet certified. If the required certification isn't obtained, I guess the production won't go ahead or it will be delayed. Those who preordered will in that case receive refunds. 

It is impressive how can people are really pre ordering this just because it is beautiful, and it is not even certified that it is safe yet. Omg, a hw should be safe first, then beautiful.

They don't even know if it is safe yet!

* Conditional sale

Please note that delivery of the product is conditional upon completion of the applicable product certification process.

Should the product certification not be obtained, Ledger will automatically issue the refund.
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-stax

<Snip>

If it's one thing I have learned in all my years (decades) interacting not only with crypto but technology in general is never to underestimate the potential of people to waste money on useless and unnecessary gadgets. This is just one of them.

It is a very beautiful model, but it is more expensive than a smartphone. I see no reason to buy one.