We can not discuss if 'ChipMixer is a honeypot or not' outside their own thread?

[yenerbatmaz]

I congratulate OGnasty for his valiant efforts; the now departed TECSHARE and the mad genius Cryptohunter were also among the highly insightful and moral members who called out the Chipmixer Signature scam for many years.

A by product of the incredible greed exhibited by the Chipmixer signature gang is that after years of backscratching and trust / merit collusion, some of these Chipmixer promoters ended up as the facetiously most "trusted" and "upstanding" members of this community...

Admin knew all about this, was warned many times, did absolutely nothing, how's that for decentralization, does decentralization mean you do nothing and play the three monkeys while the forum entrusted to you by satoshi himself is taken over by criminals ?

Some difficult questions that @theymos and his staff members need to ask themselves, if they can't clean up this forum, perhaps it's all for the best if international law enforcement does it eventually...

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[NotATether]

Some difficult questions that @theymos and his staff members need to ask themselves, if they can't clean up this forum, perhaps it's all for the best if international law enforcement does it eventually...

If international law enforcement clean up this forum, you won't be here either - the entire domain + server will be seized.

[OgNasty]

Turned out OGnasty was right...

Thanks for the validation. You’d be surprised how frequently I turn out to be right. “I should’ve listened to you” is something I’ve heard so many times. Whether it be about investing in BTC or avoiding vaccines, or in this case taking payments to promote a money laundering service…

I congratulate OGnasty for his valiant efforts; the now departed TECSHARE and the mad genius Cryptohunter were also among the highly insightful and moral members who called out the Chipmixer Signature scam for many years.

A by product of the incredible greed exhibited by the Chipmixer signature gang is that after years of backscratching and trust / merit collusion, some of these Chipmixer promoters ended up as the facetiously most "trusted" and "upstanding" members of this community...

Thanks. I had nothing to gain personally from it and was retaliated against via the trust network for doing so. It should be obvious to people here now that the “upstanding” members of our community have been taking payments for helping scammers launder funds stolen from members here all while trying to act like the forum police for who is good and bad here. My gripes against the current state of the DT network should make more sense now for those who haven’t been paying close attention.

Now we get to watch all these money laundering promoters suddenly stop promoting ChipMixer while swearing they didn’t do it for the money, they did it to push privacy. LOL.

[DooMAD]

Now we get to watch all these money laundering promoters suddenly stop promoting ChipMixer while swearing they didn’t do it for the money, they did it to push privacy. LOL.

If there isn't a ChipMixer left to promote, why would people keep promoting it?  It's easy to say people are going to stop promoting it now it no longer exists.  But that's no indication of motive on their part.

Also, I guess you didn't notice my sig now.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I can't believe there are people who buy OgNasty's utopia. Nobody ever questioned the fact that some people do, indeed, use mixers to do bad, illegal, unethical, <whatever_else>, stuff. They do help criminals, indeed, but that's because their purpose is to help every person, regardless of their moral status. Just as Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are censorship-resistant and permissionless, so are mixers.

And the funny part is that he's in favor of mixing, as long as it's decentralized. He's provably confused. He blames mixers for being money laundering services, but he has no problem if all those criminals moved to decentralized solutions. He clearly has a problem with the people who run the mixer for reasons yet unknown.

[OgNasty]

I can't believe there are people who buy OgNasty's utopia. Nobody ever questioned the fact that some people do, indeed, use mixers to do bad, illegal, unethical, <whatever_else>, stuff. They do help criminals, indeed, but that's because their purpose is to help every person, regardless of their moral status. Just as Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are censorship-resistant and permissionless, so are mixers.

And the funny part is that he's in favor of mixing, as long as it's decentralized. He's provably confused. He blames mixers for being money laundering services, but he has no problem if all those criminals moved to decentralized solutions. He clearly has a problem with the people who run the mixer for reasons yet unknown.

I have a bigger problem with the people promoting it here to scammers so that their scammed funds can be mixed to avoid the community discovering who is using alts to repeatedly scam here. If that wasn’t bad enough, these are the people who have gained control of the trust network and are the biggest senders of merit to their friends who help cover up their scam enabling (see merit earned for bad takes above). I’m not the one who took away your golden goose. Don’t get mad at me. Quit trying to enable scammers here while you’re at it.

Edit: Looks like you already found a new money laundering service to promote for money to scammers here. Now that it’s proven to be illegal, I guess some people can’t admit when they’re wrong. Good luck making money promoting illegal services to users here to help them scam others.

[NotATether]

It should be obvious to people here now that the “upstanding” members of our community have been taking payments for helping scammers launder funds stolen from members here all while trying to act like the forum police for who is good and bad here.

I think the term you are looking for is "PayPal Mafia".

[BlackHatCoiner]

[...]

Dude. Are you in favor of mixing or not? If you are, then you're in favor of both centralized and decentralized mixers. If you're not, and you're against privacy in general, please clear it up, because that's a completely different topic. At the moment, you're whining about centralized mixing, but are in favor of "protocol privacy", which can't happen simultaneously. You are either in favor of privacy and accept money laundering as an inevitable part of human activity, or you switch to privacy violating with whatever consequence that has.

[OgNasty]

…whining…

I think that privacy is good and money laundering is bad. I think that developing privacy for all is good and I think that taking money to advertise what has now been confirmed to be an illegal money laundering website to a forum where scamming and laundering stolen funds is an issue is really scummy behavior.

[Timelord2067]

I'm reading through the various posts of this thread which started off a little disjointed, but since a ten or eleven week spell, the thread has come back to life to agonise over the seizure of the Chipmixer website as part of the investigation of illegal activities of its founder - are there others that have been charged?

I see there are two aspects of this discussion - the alledged illegal activities and for the forum the bullying approach and gang mentality by Chipmixer Signature participants of anyone they deamed to be undesirable by either themselves or their DT 1 & 2 Troll allies.

[DooMAD]

I think that privacy is good and money laundering is bad. I think that developing privacy for all is good and I think that taking money to advertise what has now been confirmed to be an illegal money laundering website to a forum where scamming and laundering stolen funds is an issue is really scummy behavior.

So... you're simply in denial that built-in-privacy at protocol level means that such a protocol can be used to illegally launder money? 

[franky1]

seems the comedy club has moved to meta

whether its a service or a whole crypto currency or sub network that has privacy enhanced features.. regulated services and regulators are on the look out and flagging services cryptos or subnetworks that have those features

monero is a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY
lightning is a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY
mixers/hoppers are a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY

mixers/hoppers/privacy tools do not hide people, it gets them spotted and monitored more closely

months ago i hinted(seems too subtly) that people can create services or subnetworks that do not loudly advertise themselves as laundering services

there are many ways to have privacy as a (subtle hint) side effect of offering a different service as advertised

but here is the funny part.
most who claim to want privacy are not private people. they are too loud they are too forthcoming of information about themselves whereby they hope some technology can scrub their stupidness for them

if you want privacy be smarter, start with the info you freely give out in the first place to a system.

if you cant get any hints from what i have said you are not interested in privacy you are just interested in a argument about privacy to promote some scheme you want to promote that pretends it will give privacy. but actually ends up highlighting and following people more closely

[nutildah]

bro is so insistent with spreading bad takes everywhere like he was in charge of handing out smallpox infected blankets to native americans in the 1800s

monero is a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY
lightning is a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY
mixers/hoppers are a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY

Absolute bullshit.

The government (the US government mainly, the most important one in the world, deal with it) only cares about dangerous criminals. If you are doing stupid ass stuff like sending money to terrorist organizations or laundering large volumes of drug money with crypto, then yes, they will care. They will come after you IF the dollar amount is substantial enough AND they have the resources to deal with it. For everybody else, they do not give a single solitary fuck.

[DooMAD]

monero is a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY
lightning is a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY
mixers/hoppers are a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY

mixers/hoppers/privacy tools do not hide people, it gets them spotted and monitored more closely

And franky1 enters the discussion on behalf of Craig Scammer Wright.  Reading from the faketoshi hymn sheet as per usual:

Monero and mixed coins (such as those using Schnorr) are engaged in the activity of money transfers and money handling. Such activity, by nature, makes them an MSB. Any subsystem is required to comply with the BSA obligations that apply to money transmitters. Every node and every software wallet engaged in mixing would need to fulfil the obligations that apply to a money transmitter. They involve complying with the anti-money laundering (AML) program, maintaining records, and issuing against the reporting requirements as defined in their jurisdiction. Compliance would include filing SARs (Suspicious Activity Reports) and CTRs (currency transaction reports). Peer-to-peer exchange is covered under the anti-money laundering (AML) rules. Avoiding the requirements of the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA) in the US is not an option.

(...)

Some (foolish) people like to say that anonymous systems create more freedom and that they will bring down government. They are categorically wrong on all counts. Anonymous systems are the way to bring in more government control.

(...)

As soon as a system is deemed to facilitate money laundering, it no longer matters that you’re running a distributed system. In adding anonymity controls, many coins will find that such facilitation of terrorist funding will lead to their complete removal. One day, a court order will appear, and on the same day, any exchange transacting in Monero or using other similar systems will either have to stop immediately or be aiding the facilitation of a money-laundering system.

Monero, the Lightning Network, Zcash, and all other account-based funding systems and anonymous crypto systems are required, by law, to keep records and logs of the people involved in the use.

What people do not seem to realise is that when a court order stops such systems, it stops them dead. On the day a case of money-laundering facilitation starts that is connected to Monero, all Monero globally stops trading. Any miner or node that attempts to bypass regulation will be instantly criminally liable. The maximum penalty is 20 years for each offence, and every single block could be prosecuted as a separate offence.

It speaks volumes as to your character that your values align so closely with the biggest scam artist in all of crypto.

Seriously, do you have any unique thoughts of your own?

[OgNasty]

I think that privacy is good and money laundering is bad. I think that developing privacy for all is good and I think that taking money to advertise what has now been confirmed to be an illegal money laundering website to a forum where scamming and laundering stolen funds is an issue is really scummy behavior.

So... you're simply in denial that built-in-privacy at protocol level means that such a protocol can be used to illegally launder money?  

No. I said money laundering was bad and privacy was good. I’m not in denial about anything. This whole idea that you have to support money laundering in order to support privacy is nonsense. The idea that a third party will protect your privacy is foolish. This has now been clearly demonstrated by ChipMixer. The people in denial are the ones defending an illegal money laundering service… You really think your ChipMixer transactions gave you privacy? I think the government now likely has records exposing every person who ever used it. Almost like it was used as a honeypot and those seeking privacy from a 3rd party mixing service were taken advantage of by false advertising claims pushed by greedy users who blindly trusted a 3rd party would keep their privacy safe with a service that was very clearly illegal and going to be shut down. It isn’t like I didn’t say all this beforehand and am now proven to be right…

[NotATether]

monero is a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY
lightning is a red flag that gets users WATCHED CLOSELY

I don't know where you got that idea for Lightning Network from, but I'm still waiting for Interpol to shut down Monero.

They can (and already have) ban exchanges from offering it, but coins don't need exchanges to prosper, cf. Bitcoin 2009-2011, you should know this as an OG.

[DooMAD]

So... you're simply in denial that built-in-privacy at protocol level means that such a protocol can be used to illegally launder money?  

No. I said money laundering was bad and privacy was good. I’m not in denial about anything. This whole idea that you have to support money laundering in order to support privacy is nonsense. The idea that a third party will protect your privacy is foolish. This has now been clearly demonstrated by ChipMixer. The people in denial are the ones defending an illegal money laundering service… You really think your ChipMixer transactions gave you privacy? I think the government now likely has records exposing every person who ever used it. Almost like it was used as a honeypot and those seeking privacy from a 3rd party mixing service were taken advantage of by false advertising claims pushed by greedy users who blindly trusted a 3rd party would keep their privacy safe with a service that was very clearly illegal and going to be shut down. It isn’t like I didn’t say all this beforehand and am now proven to be right…

I can see why you feel you have no choice but to attempt to maintain that facade, but it's clear your stance is conflicted.  People can utilise privacy for legitimate purposes, but they can equally use privacy to facilitate illegal activity.  You can't have one without the other.

Any whether it's a protocol or a service offering that privacy, that's not going to sway the view of authorities.  The only advantage decentralised protocols have is that they are more resistant to takedown.  Doesn't make a protocol less likely to be used for money laundering, though.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The idea that a third party will protect your privacy is foolish.

Mind your own business. To whom I trust my money and my privacy is none of yours. If I'm convinced a third party can grant me privacy, who are you to question the rightness of this decision?

You really think your ChipMixer transactions gave you privacy?

Yep. To every merchant I've transacted with, I've hidden the fact that my coins come from a signature campaign. I could not have hidden this information better.

I think the government now likely has records exposing every person who ever used it.

What you think is irrelevant.

Almost like it was used as a honeypot and those seeking privacy from a 3rd party mixing service were taken advantage of by false advertising claims pushed by greedy users who blindly trusted a 3rd party would keep their privacy safe with a service that was very clearly illegal and going to be shut down

"Almost like a honeypot" is pure speculation; it's utter opinion. And your opinion is, again, irrelevant. What's relevant is only facts.

[OgNasty]

The idea that a third party will protect your privacy is foolish.

Mind your own business. To whom I trust my money and my privacy is none of yours. If I'm convinced a third party can grant me privacy, who are you to question the rightness of this decision?

You are free to be as foolish as you like.  It's when you take money to try and get other people to be foolish is where my issue is.

You really think your ChipMixer transactions gave you privacy?

Yep. To every merchant I've transacted with, I've hidden the fact that my coins come from a signature campaign. I could not have hidden this information better.

Damn, you've straight up been pulling every merchant you deal with into this ChipMixer mess investigation so you can hide that the funds came from your ChipMixer advertising?  Man, that's coldhearted as hell... Talk about passing the buck...

I think the government now likely has records exposing every person who ever used it.

What you think is irrelevant.

Almost like it was used as a honeypot and those seeking privacy from a 3rd party mixing service were taken advantage of by false advertising claims pushed by greedy users who blindly trusted a 3rd party would keep their privacy safe with a service that was very clearly illegal and going to be shut down

"Almost like a honeypot" is pure speculation; it's utter opinion. And your opinion is, again, irrelevant. What's relevant is only facts.

I know my opinion is irrelevant.  In fact, we're all just ants on a spinning rock.  Nothing we do matters.  If you want to talk users into entering honeypots to help them scam others here so you can get a quick buck, that's on you.  Make no mistake about it though, me saying "Almost like it was used as a honeypot" was me mocking the ignorant that still don't understand they've been promoting a honeypot while claiming it enables privacy.  How embarrassing.

[NotATether]

Should we not wait and see first whether any CM campaigners are prevented from sending their signature earnings to exchanges?