Replacement for POW

[Wind_FURY]

Dragging up this thread. eth is discussing staking at 2048 coins not 32

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/


and that is why POS is piece of shit

the very idea they have the balls to talk about doing that shows how fucked up staking can be.

I will sound like a broken record, but the Ethereum core developers threw the best component of their system out of the window, which is Proof Of Work.

They replaced a consensus/security mechanism that's independent of the network with a mechanism that's within its own network where the richest token holders are in charge, a kind of rule of an Oligarchy.

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[BlackHatCoiner]

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/

Ethereum developers --who by the way pre-mined a 70% of the ETH corp.-- suddenly realize that they can make about 64 times greater yield if they simply mess with their "validator limit".

Someone please guide me, because I honestly have lost some brain cells since they "merged" (lol, more like split) with the Proof-of-Stake mechanism. What prevented someone from pretending they have had like 2-3 Ethereum accounts, each of which staked 32 ETH?

[philipma1957]

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/

Ethereum developers --who by the way pre-mined a 70% of the ETH corp.-- suddenly realize that they can make about 64 times greater yield if they simply mess with their "validator limit".

Someone please guide me, because I honestly have lost some brain cells since they "merged" (lol, more like split) with the Proof-of-Stake mechanism. What prevented someone from pretending they have had like 2-3 Ethereum accounts, each of which staked 32 ETH?

The cost of the coins.  Which for the premined coins was about 25 cents a coin. Ie 96 x .25 = 24 dollars.

[NotATether]

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/

Ethereum developers --who by the way pre-mined a 70% of the ETH corp.-- suddenly realize that they can make about 64 times greater yield if they simply mess with their "validator limit".

Someone please guide me, because I honestly have lost some brain cells since they "merged" (lol, more like split) with the Proof-of-Stake mechanism. What prevented someone from pretending they have had like 2-3 Ethereum accounts, each of which staked 32 ETH?

Proof of shit (stake) in Ethereum requires you to have at least 32 ethers somewhere that you are ready to lock up for a period of time. For reference this is about $50K in today's prices. But as you can see, they are doing the rugpull on decentraliztation, with plans to make the requirement at least 2048 ethers. $50K times 64. Is about $3.2 million dollars, subject to the wildly volatile price of ETH, which can double or triple or even half at particular times of the year.

Do you know who has $3.2 million worth of ETH? Exchanges, and rich crypto bosses. And Vitalik Buterin and other OGs. These will basically be the only people who will be able to solo stake from now on, and everyone else will have to use a pool which runs risk of going bankrupt, Celsius style.

This is why POW is the best method even if it uses a lot of energy - you can't buy fraud in the network.

[Synchronice]

Proof of shit (stake) in Ethereum requires you to have at least 32 ethers somewhere that you are ready to lock up for a period of time. For reference this is about $50K in today's prices. But as you can see, they are doing the rugpull on decentraliztation, with plans to make the requirement at least 2048 ethers. $50K times 64. Is about $3.2 million dollars, subject to the wildly volatile price of ETH, which can double or triple or even half at particular times of the year.

Do you know who has $3.2 million worth of ETH? Exchanges, and rich crypto bosses. And Vitalik Buterin and other OGs. These will basically be the only people who will be able to solo stake from now on, and everyone else will have to use a pool which runs risk of going bankrupt, Celsius style.

This is why POW is the best method even if it uses a lot of energy - you can't buy fraud in the network.

Overall, my conclusion is that people lack critical thinking and don't appreciate the benefit of Bitcoin or any other normal cryptocurrency. Bitcoin, that was created in order to prevent 3rd parties during payment, ironically become a 3rd party dependent payment method because a lot of people use Coinbase or similar payment gateway instead of BTCPayserver where the user is independent.
Now, the ETH is going to move into a very capitalistic level and the richest ones are going to earn reward, i.e. making things very centralized and I bet people won't stop support of ETH. This makes me crazy because people either don't appreciate the benefits they are getting and think it should be normal or don't really give a shit.

To be honest, PoW is not the best method today because of the development of technology, especially after the development of ASIC miners but the problem is that there aren't really good, actually competitive alternatives, suitable for bitcoin.

[Wind_FURY]

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/

Ethereum developers --who by the way pre-mined a 70% of the ETH corp.-- suddenly realize that they can make about 64 times greater yield if they simply mess with their "validator limit".

Someone please guide me, because I honestly have lost some brain cells since they "merged" (lol, more like split) with the Proof-of-Stake mechanism. What prevented someone from pretending they have had like 2-3 Ethereum accounts, each of which staked 32 ETH?

Proof of shit (stake) in Ethereum requires you to have at least 32 ethers somewhere that you are ready to lock up for a period of time. For reference this is about $50K in today's prices. But as you can see, they are doing the rugpull on decentraliztation, with plans to make the requirement at least 2048 ethers. $50K times 64. Is about $3.2 million dollars, subject to the wildly volatile price of ETH, which can double or triple or even half at particular times of the year.

Do you know who has $3.2 million worth of ETH? Exchanges, and rich crypto bosses. And Vitalik Buterin and other OGs. These will basically be the only people who will be able to solo stake from now on, and everyone else will have to use a pool which runs risk of going bankrupt, Celsius style.

This is why POW is the best method even if it uses a lot of energy - you can't buy fraud in the network.

Plus does Proof Of Stake truly work as a consensus mechanism? Or is it merely consenus where a Cabal is really making the rules?

If the SEC wanted to go after some cryptocurrencies for being unlicensed securities, I believe they should be going after those coins that are built with too much technical complexity that determining if they truly work as documented is impossible. Ethereum would be one of those networks. I don't want to be cynical, but there might be some developers who know that what they're building actually doesn't work.

[thecodebear]

Dragging up this thread. eth is discussing staking at 2048 coins not 32

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/


and that is why POS is piece of shit

the very idea they have the balls to talk about doing that shows how fucked up staking can be.

Woah thats crazy that they are actually thinking about doing that. I don't even get why they made the 32 ETH thing in the first place. Lots of other PoS coins don't have a minimum size to stake at all, or if they do it's a lot less than that amount of money. Ethereum seems to be the most complicated and centralized version of PoS out there.

If they changed it to 2048 ETH lol literally you'd probably only have a few dozen stakers. Centralized ones like liquid staking pools and exchanges, plus the ETH founders and initial investors, and anyone who was lucky enough to buy a bunch of ETH before 2017 and hold onto it. Basically the ETH network would be validated by a few very wealthy people plus centralized services.

It's funny when people who don't know what they are talking about try to say that Bitcoin should move to PoS like Ethereum lol. I actually saw some rant online a week or two ago where someone was arguing that Bitcoin is bad because even though Bitcoiners say they will eventually move to PoS they won't really do it. All I could think was who in the heck was this guy talking to who said Bitcoin would move to PoS lol, no Bitcoiners talk about switching away from PoW, he must have been talking to some people who were pranking him haha. Only the people who don't know the value of Bitcoin would say such a thing.

[philipma1957]

Dragging up this thread. eth is discussing staking at 2048 coins not 32

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/


and that is why POS is piece of shit

the very idea they have the balls to talk about doing that shows how fucked up staking can be.

Woah thats crazy that they are actually thinking about doing that. I don't even get why they made the 32 ETH thing in the first place. Lots of other PoS coins don't have a minimum size to stake at all, or if they do it's a lot less than that amount of money. Ethereum seems to be the most complicated and centralized version of PoS out there.

If they changed it to 2048 ETH lol literally you'd probably only have a few dozen stakers. Centralized ones like liquid staking pools and exchanges, plus the ETH founders and initial investors, and anyone who was lucky enough to buy a bunch of ETH before 2017 and hold onto it. Basically the ETH network would be validated by a few very wealthy people plus centralized services.

It's funny when people who don't know what they are talking about try to say that Bitcoin should move to PoS like Ethereum lol. I actually saw some rant online a week or two ago where someone was arguing that Bitcoin is bad because even though Bitcoiners say they will eventually move to PoS they won't really do it. All I could think was who in the heck was this guy talking to who said Bitcoin would move to PoS lol, no Bitcoiners talk about switching away from PoW, he must have been talking to some people who were pranking him haha. Only the people who don't know the value of Bitcoin would say such a thing.

They simply change the rules over and over.

[pooya87]

It always comes down to the purpose of the project. Bitcoin's purpose was financial sovereignty whereas ethereum's purpose has always been to create a platform where people can make money out of thin air by scamming others.

This is why you can't pull the same thing in bitcoin while you can easily do it in ethereum. Nobody cares about ethereum being a scam itself or being very centralized or raising the stake threshold 64 times as long as everyone has the "potential to make profit", some more than others like the creators holding the ginormous premine. They just keep changing the name of the "dog poop in pretty bags" (ICO, IDO, IBO, IEO, ITO, STO, DeFi, NFT) every now and then and keep selling it to brainless newbies, making a lot of money in the process.

So why shouldn't the creators of this scam platform get a piece of the pie? To be honest I wouldn't even be surprised if some day they added a new rule where every token sale or even every transaction on ethereum platform had to pay them some money in addition to the network fees!

[Wind_FURY]

Dragging up this thread. eth is discussing staking at 2048 coins not 32

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/


and that is why POS is piece of shit

the very idea they have the balls to talk about doing that shows how fucked up staking can be.

Woah thats crazy that they are actually thinking about doing that. I don't even get why they made the 32 ETH thing in the first place. Lots of other PoS coins don't have a minimum size to stake at all, or if they do it's a lot less than that amount of money. Ethereum seems to be the most complicated and centralized version of PoS out there.

If they changed it to 2048 ETH lol literally you'd probably only have a few dozen stakers. Centralized ones like liquid staking pools and exchanges, plus the ETH founders and initial investors, and anyone who was lucky enough to buy a bunch of ETH before 2017 and hold onto it. Basically the ETH network would be validated by a few very wealthy people plus centralized services.

It's going to encourage staking pools, like how Bitcoin mining evolved from solo-mining to the implementation of mining pools because competition between miners is too high and the activity itself has become more specialzed.

Perhaps the Ethereum developers are trying to mimic the evolution of Bitcoin mining by increasing the minimum amount to stake?

It's funny when people who don't know what they are talking about try to say that Bitcoin should move to PoS like Ethereum lol. I actually saw some rant online a week or two ago where someone was arguing that Bitcoin is bad because even though Bitcoiners say they will eventually move to PoS they won't really do it. All I could think was who in the heck was this guy talking to who said Bitcoin would move to PoS lol, no Bitcoiners talk about switching away from PoW, he must have been talking to some people who were pranking him haha. Only the people who don't know the value of Bitcoin would say such a thing.

Relax and be patient. If they stay long enough they too shall understand how everything in the network sticks together, and that POW is in the center of it all.

[Kryptowerk]

Dragging up this thread. eth is discussing staking at 2048 coins not 32

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/


and that is why POS is piece of shit

the very idea they have the balls to talk about doing that shows how fucked up staking can be.

32 ETH was already quite the chunck - at the time much more than what was required to get into Bitcoin mining. This 64x proposal is just disgusting. Even the thought of it.
It clearly brings EXTREME centralisation issues, every staking node would cost millions. And only the really rich can get richer and more powerful. - The opposite of a true cryptocurrency.

Ethereum is clearly moving into a terrible direction. The POS experiment may be interesting, but I'm just glad it happened on another huge chain that's not Bitcoin.

[philipma1957]

Dragging up this thread. eth is discussing staking at 2048 coins not 32

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/


and that is why POS is piece of shit

the very idea they have the balls to talk about doing that shows how fucked up staking can be.

32 ETH was already quite the chunck - at the time much more than what was required to get into Bitcoin mining. This 64x proposal is just disgusting. Even the thought of it.
It clearly brings EXTREME centralisation issues, every staking node would cost millions. And only the really rich can get richer and more powerful. - The opposite of a true cryptocurrency.

Ethereum is clearly moving into a terrible direction. The POS experiment may be interesting, but I'm just glad it happened on another huge chain that's not Bitcoin.

And you don't get to do much if you have 32 coins on the line. There is no talk of those so called small node investors.

[cryptosize]

Dragging up this thread. eth is discussing staking at 2048 coins not 32

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/06/19/ethereum-developers-propose-raising-validator-limit-to-2048-ether-from-32-ether/


and that is why POS is piece of shit

the very idea they have the balls to talk about doing that shows how fucked up staking can be.

32 ETH was already quite the chunck - at the time much more than what was required to get into Bitcoin mining. This 64x proposal is just disgusting. Even the thought of it.
It clearly brings EXTREME centralisation issues, every staking node would cost millions. And only the really rich can get richer and more powerful. - The opposite of a true cryptocurrency.

Ethereum is clearly moving into a terrible direction. The POS experiment may be interesting, but I'm just glad it happened on another huge chain that's not Bitcoin.

And you don't get to do much if you have 32 coins on the line. There is no talk of those so called small node investors.

What do you mean "on the line"? Do you need a manual approval by Vitalik to set up an ETH validator?

[BlackHatCoiner]

I actually saw some rant online a week or two ago where someone was arguing that Bitcoin is bad because even though Bitcoiners say they will eventually move to PoS they won't really do it.

I've talked with those too. To me, what makes a cryptocurrency is its mechanism, apart from its monetary policy. I clearly don't comprehend a Proof-of-Staked Bitcoin as the original. It's just another fork, whose software I'm never going to be running.

To be honest I wouldn't even be surprised if some day they added a new rule where every token sale or even every transaction on ethereum platform had to pay them some money in addition to the network fees!

No reason to do that, and make all Ethereum users dissatisfied. They can do the same more effectively and cunningly by messing with the inflation schedule a-la fiat.