"Bitcoin is Islamic" -by Economist Bruce Fenton

[LDL]

"Bitcoin is Islamic "
-Says Economist Bruce Fenton

He recently said these things in a video message.  He also said that Bitcoin is starting to gain acceptance in the Middle East/Gulf region, not just adoption. He claims to see 9-digit BTC investments from the Middle East/Gulf region this year.


He added that the growing skepticism surrounding fiat in the Gulf region is showing interest in investing in BTC and the number of investors is increasing day by day.  He mentioned several Islamic countries including United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, Saudi Arabia as Bitcoin investment regions.


Source:https://cryptonews.net/17381325/?utm_source=CryptoNews&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=shared

[mindrust]

I have asked this question to chatGPT and he told me:

It is not for me to say whether or not Bitcoin is Islamic. Different scholars may have different opinions on the matter. In general, though, Islamic financial law has certain principles and guidelines that must be followed, such as the prohibition of riba (usury or interest). It is up to individual Muslims and Islamic scholars to determine whether or not Bitcoin is compliant with these principles and guidelines.

I guess like this big artificial brains over here said, only muslims can decide if bitcoin is islamic.

If the majority of the muslims say, bitcoin is islamic, then bitcoin would become islamic.

Right now I don't think that's the case but in the future, who knows?

[davis196]

How can this Bruce Fenton guy read the minds of the rulers of the richest "oil monarchies" in the world?
Does he have some insider information? Did he talk with the King of Saudi Arabia or the Emir of Qatar?
What's the point for some of the richest countries in the world to adopt Bitcoin/crypto? These countries aren't undeveloped and poor like El Salvador or the Central African Republic. They can have as many USD/Euro/British pounds as they want, because they have oil.
This seems like another mindless bullish speculation, which isn't backed by any facts and logic. It's just wishful thinking and fantasies.

[Dave1]

I guess everyone is really looking for some reason why bitcoin will go on six digits or even higher in the next couple of years or at least the next bitcoin bull run.

I remember myself what could be the triggering point when we are not yet on the bull in 2022, and so I read it the money could come from government and it did, from El Salvador and then we have some entity like Elon and Michael Saylor to push the price to $69k.

So who knows, maybe this time, to be able to push the price again we need the billionaires of those Arab countries to be able to see bitcoin at least $100k.

[Upgrade00]

I don't advocate for mixing up Bitcoin with religion, and trying to use the Quran to support bitcoin falls within that radar.
Heavy investments from the middle East and Islamic regions from both the government and individuals would surely push the market upwards and increase adoption, as would investments from any other country and region.

I didn't quite clearly hear or read what would drive such investments from the islamic region from the speaker, seems more like an optimistic approach.

[Zlantann]

Both fiat and Bitcoin can be Islamic depending on the usage of these currencies. If you give someone a loan using Bitcoin and you ask for interest, then you have committed riba according to Islamic laws. But if someone gives an interest-free loan in fiat, this is not against Islamic laws.

There are some allegations that the Middle East is gradually becoming a cryptocurrency because many highly profiled citizens are under sanctions because of their connections to human rights violations or terrorist financing. Hence, to invade these sanctions, they are opening their economy to crypto. There are also speculations that the close relationship between Russia and some middle east nations is not just for political reasons but economical ones. It is assumed that cryptocurrency is one of the tools sanctioned Russians are using to dodge this punishment. And since Russia has been disconnected from SWIFT, Gulf nations are now middlemen or intermediaries for these cryptocurrency transactions.

[Findingnemo]

If I am not wrong money isn't prohibited in any religion so bitcoin itself a currency so its Islamic for sure.

While who really cares about religion when it comes to money, when you made billions you will be accepted no matter what religion you belong so as a commoner we need to realise the religions are created by us to progress humans not to keep them under control.

[BitDane]

I have asked this question to chatGPT and he told me:

It is not for me to say whether or not Bitcoin is Islamic. Different scholars may have different opinions on the matter. In general, though, Islamic financial law has certain principles and guidelines that must be followed, such as the prohibition of riba (usury or interest). It is up to individual Muslims and Islamic scholars to determine whether or not Bitcoin is compliant with these principles and guidelines.

I guess like this big artificial brains over here said, only muslims can decide if bitcoin is islamic.

If the majority of the muslims say, bitcoin is islamic, then bitcoin would become islamic.

Right now I don't think that's the case but in the future, who knows?

When things get entangled with religion or politics, it become messy.  I hope to separate financial system with religion and politics.  Let Bitcoin be Bitcoin and do its natural function.  It was created not because of any religion but because it wanted to solve financial problem specifically transaction when dealing with financial institution. As far as I know, it wasn't created because of any religious principle.

[Pmalek]

If I am not wrong money isn't prohibited in any religion so bitcoin itself a currency so its Islamic for sure.

It's not the money that is prohibited, it's the way you use the money and how you have earned it. Islamic nations invest just like everyone else and they use fiat like all other people. What is not acceptable is to profit from interest. If you borrow 1 BTC from a Muslim who respects those principles, he isn't allowed to request that you pay him back 1.1 BTC. You give back what you borrowed with no interest.

While who really cares about religion when it comes to money, when you made billions you will be accepted no matter what religion you belong so as a commoner we need to realise the religions are created by us to progress humans not to keep them under control.

Since when are religions guided by progress, development, freedom, or even peace? You do what you are told and what is written in the holy books with no complaints. Independent minds are neither desirable nor welcome in religious circles. They undermine their positions of power and control. 

Ricky Gervais made a good tweet about religion a long time ago. He said:

I see Atheists are fighting and killing each other again, over who doesn't believe in any God the most. Oh, no..wait.. that never happens."

https://twitter.com/rickygervais/status/247246481185202177?lang=en

[Shaha98]

Bitcoin people earn in different ways and there are many different ways to earn.  If you have earned money through the avenues like Grambling section gambling casino then it will be illegal income according to Islam. But if you collect from him more than you lend by fiat, it will be illegal.  

But we whose earn cryptocurrency by working from bitcoin forum it is legit.  Because we are not affiliated with any gambling or casino that is why it is legitimate earnings.  However, I believe that if there is profit or loss, such activities can be called legitimate according to Islam, such as trading, investing, holding, etc.

[stompix]

"Bitcoin is Islamic "
-Says Economist Bruce Fenton

1. How about we let Muslims decide what's Islamic and what not
2. How about we stop mixing Bitcoin and religion
3. After a failed carrier strat as a politician probably it's not the best time to talk about international stuff that's way beyond your current capabilities

So who knows, maybe this time, to be able to push the price again we need the billionaires of those Arab countries to be able to see bitcoin at least $100k.

It's a bit ironic that we need the so-called old finance billionaires to rise bitcoin value, a few more steps and we're going to see cheers on Rothschild, Soros, and Buffet investing in Bitcoin.

[Antonas1]

No, he is wrong. Bitcoin is not Islamic. Bitcoin does not have a physical materialize that can be used as collateral, which is clearly inverse to one of the requirements for currency in Islam. The physical form is very important as a guarantee for the owner, even if it's just a little wood piece.

While who really cares about religion when it comes to money, when you made billions you will be accepted no matter what religion you belong so as a commoner we need to realise the religions are created by us to progress humans not to keep them under control.

Religion has rules for all of life, including currency, so religion must be involved. Read your holy book.

When things get entangled with religion or politics, it become messy. 

Give me some examples (with religion).

I hope to separate financial system with religion and politics.  Let Bitcoin be Bitcoin and do its natural function.  It was created not because of any religion but because it wanted to solve financial problem specifically transaction when dealing with financial institution. As far as I know, it wasn't created because of any religious principle.

No, you are wrong. In fact, it's religion that teaches us about the principles of life, including finance.

[kryptqnick]

I remember an article declaring Bitcoin halal. That's something I understand, as it basically allows Muslims to use it. Bitcoin being Islamic, however, sounds as if there's something specifically Muslim to it, which isn't true. It's like appropriation of Bitcoin by one religion. I am happy that Muslims can use Bitcoin and that it doesn't go against their laws, but people of other faiths and atheists can use it just as well.

[Antonas1]

I remember an article declaring Bitcoin halal. That's something I understand, as it basically allows Muslims to use it. -snip-

If we look at the studies of scholars and sheikhs, all of them still claim that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are haram, even fiat. But they also said, when you can't fight back and have no choice but to use it, then the law becomes permissible.

[CryptoGPU]

Saudi Prince Al-Waleed: Bitcoin Is 'Going to Implode'
https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2017/10/23/saudi-prince-al-waleed-bitcoin-is-going-to-implode/

A senior member of the Saudi royal family struck a critical tone about bitcoin during a media appearance today.



*today: it was back in 2017

[Anguwa]

I remember an article declaring Bitcoin halal. That's something I understand, as it basically allows Muslims to use it. Bitcoin being Islamic, however, sounds as if there's something specifically Muslim to it, which isn't true. It's like appropriation of Bitcoin by one religion. I am happy that Muslims can use Bitcoin and that it doesn't go against their laws, but people of other faiths and atheists can use it just as well.

In my personal view, trading Bitcoin is simply the buying and selling of a digital asset, which almost everyone in the world does. The difference is that people buy and hold Bitcoin while they wait for the price to increase by two or even three or four times the purchase price, which is just as normal as the profit or gain we experience when buying and selling other goods. Bitcoin is authorized and lawful.

[Smartprofit]

I remember an article declaring Bitcoin halal. That's something I understand, as it basically allows Muslims to use it. -snip-

If we look at the studies of scholars and sheikhs, all of them still claim that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are haram, even fiat. But they also said, when you can't fight back and have no choice but to use it, then the law becomes permissible.

I don't know Islam very well....

As far as I know, in the tradition of Islam it is forbidden to lend money.  From this point of view, it is likely that some of the popular financial instruments in the DeFi ecosystem do not follow the Islamic tradition. 

However, Bitcoin is a deflationary virtual currency that does not contain algorithms built into the code that allow you to lend coins at interest.  From this point of view, Bitcoin can probably be approved by representatives of traditional Islam. 

Large-scale investments in Bitcoin by oil sheiks can greatly increase the price of the first cryptocurrency.

[LDL]

In the Views of Islam,,, Bitcoin consider as Haram when it would be used as...

Gambling : Based on Islamic thinking, Bitcoin will be considered haram only when Bitcoin is used in various gambling sites.  Generally, Bitcoin is widely used in most gambling fields.

High Yield APY/Interest%: Currently, various exchanges, websites offer high interest rates, which have been declared completely haram in Islam. Staking, High APY, interest% etc are completely Haram. But in these cases Bitcoin offers higher interest rates.  If the interest free offer is only fully halal in Islam.

Illegal Activities : If illegal activities such as anti-social activities, smuggling, contraband transactions, drug dealing, money laundering, and international smuggling are done through Bitcoin, then Bitcoin will be declared haram in the eyes of Islam.


Apart from the actions mentioned above, if Bitcoin is earned and spent honestly for the benefit of people, i.e. for livelihood, then only Bitcoin will be considered halal in the eyes of Islam.

[Hydrogen]

"Bitcoin is Islamic "
-Says Economist Bruce Fenton

He recently said these things in a video message.

Its an old topic which has been covered for many years.

Usury: Islam

Riba (usury) is forbidden in Islam. As such, specialized codes of banking have developed to cater to investors wishing to obey Qur'anic law. (See Islamic banking)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Islam

The religion of islam contains teachings against usury. Which invokes trends against high interest rate banking, payment and merchant services.

The format and principles bitcoin is built upon is definitely more aligned with muslim religious ideology in contrast to fractional reserve banking and standardized financial establishment practices.

Christianity also contains similar teachings although it could be fair to say most christians are unaware of them.

[lovesmayfamilis]

I wouldn't put it that way. Bitcoin can be accepted by many countries in the Gulf and the Middle East, but this has nothing to do with religion. The main reason is the lack of trust in fiat, as it is losing popularity more and more, in contrast to the trust of these countries in digital assets, investments which are becoming very popular in the Arab countries. However, bitcoin is sometimes scammed, and I wouldn't say the Quran would allow that. Therefore, I think dragging theological comparisons here is wrong.