Have Satoshi dream failed?

[Outhue]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

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[Edwardard]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences

+ help newcomers enter the space by making informative posts so that the community and p2p network builds more stronger and powerful in the future 😁

but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings.

There are tax-free(or very low tax) and crypto friendly countries in the world like El Salvador, Dubai, etc. You never thought why those rich crypto youtubers mostly shoot from Dubai? xD

[Upgrade00]

Taxations does not kill the Bitcoin dream, neither does it mean that anonymity failed.

• You can make transactions between non-custodian wallets, which cannot be stopped or reversed,
• You can hold your Bitcoin safely in your wallet and no third party can interact with it,
• It is completely decentralized and consensus based.

The only way the government can indirectly lay their hands on your bitcoins, is if you use a centralized channel to move it.

[avikz]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

There's no guarantee that everyone's dream will be fulfilled. Every innovation has to go through the test of time and bitcoin is no exception here. Currently bitcoin has reached to such a level where only a handful of innovation can reach. Isn't that enough?

There was a coin which aimed to fulfil the vision of Satoshi, but failed miserably! It's good to stay within the limit of law. Revolutionary idea is great but it may not yield great results if you try to execute.

[lizarder]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

There are dedicated threads for beginners to understand bitcoin, trading exchanges and other fundamentals in the crypto space, you can view each one to understand everything. The bitcointalk room is the place to understand and learn all the information you need, because in this room many relevant things are discussed according to the facts that happened and I'm sure you will definitely understand, if you are serious about studying the discussion threads of this issue in the bitcointalk room.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

What you need to understand is that Satoshi Nakamoto never failed to create bitcoin as a perfect digital currency, there is no direct relationship between taxes and the correlation of the creation of bitcoins that are run using a P2P system.
There are some countries that adopt a low tax system or a tax free country like El Salvador, anonymous is not only with regards to taxes, because many other technical things are related to it and each country adopts a different system in setting taxes on bitcoin travel

[YOSHIE]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Bitcoins remain anonymous, taxes are taken from exchanges, wallets, banks, visas and so on, taxes do not apply to Bitcoins, you can still transact and buy Bitcoins anonymously.

Taxes apply to exchanges when Bitcoin is turned into fiat money, taxes apply to fiat transactions, not to Bitcoin, exchanges only deduct Bitcoin transaction fees, governments can't cut taxes on Bitcoin, they can do it on fiat.

Satoshi and Bitcoin do not fail when it comes to being anonymous.

Anonymous means: No application or tracker can reveal the identity of an anonymous user(even if they claim they can)!

Understand Anonymous, are you currently being tracked by the tax authorities for your identity when buying and selling Bitcoin, of course not, you can be tracked and your identity traced when sending fiat, not with your Bitcoin account or identity.

[348Judah]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

That means you're yet not used to having the understanding of how bitcoin works and how to remain decentralized on it, as long as you have your bitcoin on a decentralized wallet there's no how government can regulate you to pay them tax elae the finished work of Satoshi over decentralization and freedom in finances will not be completed with you, p2p cannot be monitored by centralized authorities but centralized exchanges can be monitored and regulated.

[Cookdata]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

You may be new to this market crash outcry but trust me, this isn’t the first time it has crashed and during that process, many people feel the same thing and handle the anxiety by holding( that is if you buy bitcoin and not Shit coins) and with time, new bull run appears with different speculations, there is more to come I believe.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

The government is known as tax person, they don’t see where people earn from investment and take their eyes from it and since bitcoin is a p2p and also store of value, they would definitely want to eat from those profits they have earned. Irrespective of whatever the government has installed on bitcoin, satoshi legacy must be fulfilled.

[cabron]

Since the government laid out regulations for crypto, this also meant our crypto is going to be taxed. It's fair.

The government needs funds to govern society. Believe it or not, it's necessary since we live as a society and we all need the government as well. What is not worth it is if our taxes go somewhere outside the country so spend on war we as citizens don't benefit.

[franky1]

if you look at the UK/US.EU countries

bitcoin tx fee's are still JUST reasonable
(im talking about wanting a confirm in 10 mins, not wait for weekends or night times delay tactics to snipe lower fees)

but for developing countries its more then a few hours labour of minimum wage. which is not suitable

utility growth:(low lack of should i say)
its been limited to ~1500 tx a block (1500x144)=216,000 uses a day

so comparing that to the proposition of 2009-2014 of
atleast 7txps(upto 4000tx a block possible) and sub penny fee's bitcoin has bitcoin has lost its reach from the majority of unbanked developing countries it was proposed as capable of and would grow to help support

i know some will start to advertise their subnetworks and altnets people should offramp to to solve this. but bitcoin can and should solve these things that have turned it into a reserve asset for the elite groups
(im from the UK, but i can see if from the prospective of other countries)

bitcoin developers(covers) have since 2015 become co-opted/corrupted into being corporate sponsored devs only adding features and having a road map that appeases a corporate strategy and not a open world community need.

i still use it, but its not the same proposition as wht was offered in the early days

[Zanab247]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Satoshi Nakamoto dream didn't failed because there are some countries that want to be part of the benefits of Bitcoin by involving tax to the users, so that they will know how important it is to the government. Those countries that imposed tax on Bitcoin users are doing well and they made it legalized for their land.  My country is planning to legalize Bitcoin and impose tax on users, which many bitcoiners are very happy because they want to use Bitcoin to purchase goods like the way they are using fiat money to purchase goods in the country.

[Husires]

Did Satoshi say we shouldn't pay taxes or that bitcoin is for tax evasion? The white paper stipulates ending dependence on a third party. You do not need to trust anyone to conduct transactions, which is different from the current systems that need to trust a third party.

• Bitcoin is supposed to be decentralized, so Satoshi's vision no longer has meaning.
• Even if Satoshi returns, he will not be able to change the protocol.

[NdaMk]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

If you understand the government and how it operates, imposing taxes or regulations on bitcoin should not surprise you. They believe that if one makes an investment, they should receive a portion of the profits. Bitcoin is here to put an end to that, and everyone will have complete control over their money. Only centralized exchanges allow governments to extract taxes from your money, according to findings. Nonetheless, each country has its own taxation prices, which can be favorable in some places and harsh in others. All of this, I believe, is done to threaten the existence of bitcoin, but despite this, it continues to thrive.

[NeuroticFish]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Not really related. Governments will always try to tax everything they can, as good as they can.
In some countries holding is taxed, in other countries only the capital gains (in fiat) are taxed.
People can hide their coins from the government, it's not that hard, but it can be seen as tax evasion and that's illegal.

Satoshi's dream was to give the right tools to avoid the banks if we want to. Taxation is, as you see, not necessarily related to this.
So Satoshi's dream didn't fail. Even more, the things are actually getting better in that direction, ie the number of entities accepting bitcoins for their goods and services is increasing.

[stompix]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

So in your vision bitcoin was developed to avoid taxation? It was never supposed to do that, it was created as a mean of allowing people to send and receive value without the need for a third party, Satoshi never claimed anything about tax avoidance not in the whitepaper, not in his posts on this board.

They believe that if one makes an investment, they should receive a portion of the profits. Bitcoin is here to put an end to that, and everyone will have complete control over their money. Only centralized exchanges allow governments to extract taxes from your money, according to findings.

Put an end, no, no way that's going to happen!
Before the bank and centralized exchanges existed how were taxes imposed, in times like the middle ages for example when everything was genuinely peer to peer? Just because you hide your coins in your pocket you think you will avoid taxation, pretty curious about those "findings" hat let you believe that.
What happens when you buy a car, a hotdog, or a bus ticket, you pay VAT! What happens when your income shows $12k a year but you bought a $100k home or a $10k car, do you think that if the government wants to track you for reel for any sum they won't be able to do so?  You can't eat coins, you can't drink them, and can't live in one, sooner or later you will have to get them from your wallet and purchase things in the real world and that's when taxation will start.

Taxations will only end when the government will stop them, you would be amazed how easily they will find ways to tax whatever you own no matter what you use.

[Hamphser]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

As long you wont be converting it to fiat then you cant really be txes.As long you dont make use of  centralized platforms then you cant really be taxed.So this means that dream failure that you've been saying

isnt still happening.It is really just that government is really imposing up much more stricter laws and regulation in against with decentralized stuff including Bitcoin.
And since they cant really do it literally then there are no other ways but to touch up or on get involvement with those centralized platforms.
Also, we have seen that lots of countries are trying out to impose taxes or trying out to get a good hold towards crypto and charge up everything
but we arent able to see that they are succeeding on this in regard.Therefore, its not really just that right that you would be saying that Satoshi had failed.
I would say that he do failed on the time that Bitcoin becomes worthless.

[Anguwa]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Perhaps the primary goal was to offer a potential solution to people in a small area, but the technology spread throughout the world and many people saw it as a means of independence for their income and personal wealth. Governments also joined the argument for its legalization, which is why they tax cryptocurrency users in some countries because the citizens benefit from the digital currency and have a legal obligation to do so in order for the government to meet their basic needs, which also include providing for them.

[arabspaceship123]

Satoshi's desire to successfully create bitcoin as P2P payment system hasn't failed. Satoshi's the reason altcoins & tokens exist today Satoshi didn't fail. Citizens paying taxes is law differing in country to country. Satoshi didn't create Bitcoins for tax reasons.

Did you know some countries residents aren't required to pay income tax https://www.investopedia.com/countries-without-income-taxes-5071965

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

[coolcoinz]

Most countries do not tax your holdings. I don't know where it's taxed like that but in the EU your "taxable event" is the moment you exchange bitcoin into fiat money, goods or services. Otherwise you don't have to tell anyone that you own anything.

Bitcoin gives you freedom of choice. If you live in a country that heavily regulates or taxes bitcoin, move somewhere else and have fun with no taxes, like in German

At some point most countries will have taxed bitcoin in some way, most likely in the form of income tax from gains, but that doesn't mean it's a failure. You're your own bank, you can spend at any moment, any day of the week, you don't have to wait, transactions are easy to verify and visible for everyone and you are anonymous, despite what some people are saying.
When I get my coins from a signature campaign on the forum and decide to go to an ATM that allows me to exchange for cash without KYC up to a certain limit - I'm anonymous. It's the same with store purchases. If I decide to spend my coins at a place that accepts bitcoin I'm anonymous. They can see my face, but they don't know my name, DOB or any other thing about me.

[crzy]

This is not a failed project, its just that we are already on a different timeline and this is a proof that we can’t totally escape from the control of the government especially on paying such taxes. This is still a great revolutionary project, Satoshi did a great job on this and his legacy will be forever remembered. Bitcoin will continue to rise, and mass adoption will still happen. There are still way here to remain anonymous, and beside Satoshi’s dream is to give financial access to those who can’t afford to open an bank account and I think he already achieved that goal.

[KingsDen]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

When I saw your topic and opened it I read little through the body I thought you were about to say something that I always complain about which is how satoshi's initial idea has been defeated.
Satoshi created bitcoin to be a currency for transaction and buying and selling, but today what we see is that bitcoin has turned an asset for investments where we hold for a long time to enable it appreciate and people now praises people that are able to hold for a very long time instead of spending.

Back to your topic the idea of Bitcoin is not to evade task.
If you earn a living through bitcoin that means you should also pay necessary taxation that follows.

[Raflesia]

Hasn't tax existed long before even bitcoin existed?
I think something new requires a process and in this case it doesn't mean that with bitcoin the tax will disappear immediately because in this case the bitcoin policy is still hampered.
On the other hand, currently there are several countries that actually have very low taxes or maybe even completely free, but that doesn't mean that all countries have to follow it directly because in this case it takes time, of course, especially for some small countries, taxes are always one of the budgets. which has indeed been converted into infrastructure to maintain and develop the country.

[serjent05]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

The network is good as itself.  It has never been tampered and the borderless frictionless transfers are still in effect.  People can still transact with Bitcoin without any need for a financial institution.  These taxes is created by the government and is not part of the Bitcoin original ecosystem.  People got subjected to tax if they link their accounts to centralized exchanges which is not part of Satoshi's plan.  There are decentralized exchanges that can be used to avoid the government from tracking our Bitcoin holdings. 

In short, the dreams of Satoshi Nakamoto don't fail yet, it is that the government has its own way to meddle with centralized institutions but if we avoid these institutions, we can avoid this taxation stuff.

[Taskford]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Satoshi didn't failed bitcoin was use already globally for p2p transaction and it continuously booming. Maybe the idea about being anonymous came out when bitcoin has not been notice yet globally and they used this to cover up their transaction especially online. But we need to understand that it also need government participation since legalization also on investors protection is needed for continuous spread on this technology.

[Wakate]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

This is the power of the government and we can't resist it. We should be hoping for the government not to concentrate more on the Crypto spheres because this might affect the dream and plans of Satoshi Nakamoto. If the government eventually take over the affairs the crypto world then this will have some effect in how anonymous we can be when transacting cryptocurrency.

The crypto market is still growing and we hope that soon everything would will be balance and the rate of rug pull project will reduce if the government can come in a little way with less strict rules.

[trendcoin]

Under normal circumstances, it is not possible for a decentralized asset to be subject to taxation. At this point, we are still preparing the ground for such an issue by continuing to trade on centralized exchanges. The problem here is not Bitcoin or the system. The problem here is our behavior. Satoshi did its part by setting up the system in a near-perfect manner. I hope we don't need a dictator to change our behavior and we adapt to use the system for its intended purpose.

In addition, concepts such as state and tax are less valuable than the concept of financial freedom. Any sane government that can see this truth will increase freedoms in this regard over time. Regulations such as acceptable tax rates or zero tax are not far off issues in my opinion.

[Darker45]

I'm afraid it wasn't Satoshi's dream for people to get away with taxes. The freedom that Satoshi envisioned is the freedom from third parties like the banks, the freedom from being subjected to the unfair rules of fiat system, the freedom from those powerful few who abuse the trust that people give them as far as money is concerned. It wasn't absolute freedom.

I think Bitcoin is not designed to be a tool to shirk one's responsibility to the state, although one could make use of it somehow. It isn't specifically designed to be anonymous, either, although a certain amount of effort could also provide you a sufficient amount of privacy.

[yhiaali3]

Taxes are not the problem, it is not taxes that destroy Satoshi's dream, but centralization. Because in my opinion, Satoshi's goal was not to avoid taxes, but to avoid centralization and control by governments.

If our ultimate goal is the mass adoption of Bitcoin by all governments then of course there will be taxes, because no country can survive without taxes.

If taxes were to be completely abolished, how would the government spend on public services and infrastructure? I don't think that was Satoshi's goal.

Satoshi's dream was to build a decentralized financial system that eliminates the corrupt banking system based on control and centralization, but this does not mean at all the abolition of taxes because they are very necessary for the survival of any country.

Carrying out all financial transactions and transfers out of the eyes of the state will lead to the state losing an important part of the taxes on which the state relies in its economy, so in my opinion, no financial system that does not take this into account will succeed.

But in the case of Bitcoin, the solution could be to replace taxes with transfer fees in a decentralized manner.

[Wong Goblog]

I'm sure Satoshi's dream is never like now, he used to dream of only presenting other concepts in terms of transactions, and after now many Bitcoin users save in the hope of getting a big profit, of course, it is not liked.

[noorman0]

Whether you decide to pay taxes or not, bitcoin remains technically decentralized. It is simply a matter of responsibility whether you are obedient enough and a good citizen to report wealth value growth. After all, by default no one will know everyone's bitcoin address. Generally, more tax is charged on government regulated services.

[Sir Legend]

Whether you decide to pay taxes or not, bitcoin remains technically decentralized. It is simply a matter of responsibility whether you are obedient enough and a good citizen to report wealth value growth. After all, by default no one will know everyone's bitcoin address. Generally, more tax is charged on government regulated services.

There are many accusations that bitcoin is used to hide money or launder money so that it is banned in many countries, and in countries that legalize cryptocurrencies the pressure is on exchanges to pay taxes so that it becomes income for the country. bitcoin is indeed different from Satoshi's dream because currently bitcoin is too broad in many ways.

[Fortify]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

You seem to assign your thoughts to what Satoshi wanted to achieve, the two are not the same - don't try to speak for them. In terms of technology - introducing the transparent ledger called the blockchain and having it used by millions around the world while being supported by a massive decentralized network of servers, it has been hugely successful. It is very rare that we see such technological advances which due to their somewhat ingenious simplicity are able to peculate. Bitcoin, while it has lost a bit of value recently, is still an exceptional means to transfer large sums of money around without the need for any sort of traditional banking infrastructure and gives people a lot of freedom in that sense.

[Adbitco]

This is dependent of the country you are living, for instance my country doesn't pay tax for bitcoin holding and government do not have control over wallets but in other ways round, government could only demand for tax on a channels which they have access to maybe some exchange or centralized wallet where government have control over. So his dream came true.

[Solosanz]

If you live in tax free country, your question aren't relevant.

But let's say if you're live in a country where Bitcoin get taxed, you're actually have a "choice" to not pay tax. But there's a way to pay your Bitcoin tax without write the source is come from Bitcoin, you can write it's from your freelance or extra job. So you don't need to think you're a criminal or bad person since you're not paying tax. Actually Satoshi never say if we pay tax from Bitcoin profit, it will ruin his purpose. Bitcoin is created as pseudonymous, not anonymous.

[TheUltraElite]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Did satoshi tell that paying taxes is wrong or that bitcoin would stop its users from having to pay taxes? No.

You live in a country ruled by some politicians running a government, not in your own la la land. Being a citizen you have to pay taxes whatever be your mode of payment. Now in the past people have attempted to use bitcoin to evade taxes but they have been caught and punished for the same too.

Again like others have said, there are tax-free countries, so you can move there and get your citizenship over there.

IMO Satoshi's dream has realized as it needed it, people are using bitcoin for daily expenses and its popularity is gradually growing. What else can you ask for?

[vv181]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Bitcoin is not built for tax evasion and tax evasion is even already existed way before Bitcoin's inception. So I don't agree that bitcoin is mainly built with that in mind. Another thing worth to note that it is not even anonymous, instead, pseudonymous. So you should really learn more about the aspect of bitcoin since I believe the premises you currently have which are people being taxed, does not actually on point of what bitcoin could give.

Try starting to comprehend what the Bitcoin Whitepaper shows.

[Semar Mesem]

Satoshi, of course, didn't think that the development of bitcoin was like it is today, the market cap was very large and made many people rich people, bitcoin became the pioneer of many other projects so that it made job opportunities even better, another opportunity is to provide opportunities for anyone to profit by investing or daily trading.

[AicecreaME]

Taxation is normal, unlucky you if your country put too much tax in everything. It helps a lot in the economy, sadly if you have a corrupt government, saying taxes will be spent on developing your country is just a joke. But taxation doesn't failed any of what you have mentioned. Bitcoin is very successful since it was released on the market, imagine it's price reached up to $68,000 is already a solid proof that Bitcoin proved us that it is way more powerful than the fiat.

[South Park]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Anyone would have seen the regulations coming, as soon as this market became big enough we knew governments will begin to try to impose their rules to bitcoin, but bitcoin is decentralized, you can still do the same things you could do with it in the early days and be relatively anonymous while doing so, it is just that right now this requires a little bit more of effort on your part, but it still can be done and there are many people which are doing precisely that.

[Outhue]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences

+ help newcomers enter the space by making informative posts so that the community and p2p network builds more stronger and powerful in the future 😁

but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings.

There are tax-free(or very low tax) and crypto friendly countries in the world like El Salvador, Dubai, etc. You never thought why those rich crypto youtubers mostly shoot from Dubai? xD

Well I am not from Dubai and I am not even financially buoyant to leave my country and travel down to Dubai.

El Salvador support crypto 100% so yes the tax can't be that strong over there, compare with U.S for example, are you from the USA? The tax payment on crypto is higher and so is some countries too.

[Lucius]

~snip~
Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

In some countries, you do not have to pay tax when you sell Bitcoin for fiat (several countries in the EU) if you meet the condition that the sale is made 1 or 2 years after the investment. It sounds too good to be true, but for now, some are luckier than others.

I think that even Satoshi was aware that the authorities will not just give up their share of the pie in a world where everything and everyone is taxed. Likewise, this anonymity is not something you should take for granted, because if the blockchain is public, what kind of anonymity are we talking about at a time when spy techniques are so powerful that they can detect almost anything they want?

I wouldn't say that Satoshi's dream failed, on the contrary, it came true and more than what he could have dreamed of. Little by little, Bitcoin is becoming a part of society in one way or another, and things that were unimaginable in the years after Bitcoin came to life are now quite normal.

[so98nn]

We are surely at the stage where presence of authorities has increased a lot with the time. I find it intriguing because they were not that much involved when bitcoin was really new and it was considered to be a bubble and nothing more. As spons as market gone crazy so as to governments fabled by the universe of bitcoin.

However, you can not deny the fact that if we are living in this world then it’s not up to the bitcoin (p2p services) to have transfer methodology. Bitcoin is just an alternative to traditional system with vision that everyone can have free will of transfer, pseudonymous and without any limits.

We still follow we still vote and we will keep doing that. It doesn’t mean bitcoin failed or Satoshi’ vision failed. It’s just part of it with complex stage.

[Gyfts]

Hasn't tax existed long before even bitcoin existed?
I think something new requires a process and in this case it doesn't mean that with bitcoin the tax will disappear immediately because in this case the bitcoin policy is still hampered.
On the other hand, currently there are several countries that actually have very low taxes or maybe even completely free, but that doesn't mean that all countries have to follow it directly because in this case it takes time, of course, especially for some small countries, taxes are always one of the budgets. which has indeed been converted into infrastructure to maintain and develop the country.

Precisely, I don't know what OP is on about.

Ditch fiat currencies entirely and your crypto is still going to be taxed by the jurisdiction you live in. If you don't agree to taxation, then leave the jurisdiction. I'm not one of those "taxation is theft" type of people and I couldn't imagine in a world that's only cryptocurrency that taxation magically disappears leaving the state to generate zero revenue.

Crypto gives you the freedom from unlawful or unnecessary government control with your finances. There isn't anything unlawful about taxes.

[serjent05]

If you live in tax free country, your question aren't relevant.

But let's say if you're live in a country where Bitcoin get taxed, you're actually have a "choice" to not pay tax. But there's a way to pay your Bitcoin tax without write the source is come from Bitcoin, you can write it's from your freelance or extra job. So you don't need to think you're a criminal or bad person since you're not paying tax. Actually Satoshi never say if we pay tax from Bitcoin profit, it will ruin his purpose. Bitcoin is created as pseudonymous, not anonymous.

And Bitcoin is created for borderless electronic transfers without the need for financial institutions to process it and not to evade taxes.  Is there any line on the whitepaper that stated we should avoid paying taxes?  I haven't read any unless I missed that line. Pseudo-anonymity is just a feature that goes with Bitcoin transactions but I think the main vision is to remove the third-party institution in every electronic cash transfer and have a cheaper fee for doing international bitcoin transfers..

[AmoreJaz]

If you live in tax free country, your question aren't relevant.

But let's say if you're live in a country where Bitcoin get taxed, you're actually have a "choice" to not pay tax. But there's a way to pay your Bitcoin tax without write the source is come from Bitcoin, you can write it's from your freelance or extra job. So you don't need to think you're a criminal or bad person since you're not paying tax. Actually Satoshi never say if we pay tax from Bitcoin profit, it will ruin his purpose. Bitcoin is created as pseudonymous, not anonymous.

And Bitcoin is created for borderless electronic transfers without the need for financial institutions to process it and not to evade taxes.  Is there any line on the whitepaper that stated we should avoid paying taxes?  I haven't read any unless I missed that line. Pseudo-anonymity is just a feature that goes with Bitcoin transactions but I think the main vision is to remove the third-party institution in every electronic cash transfer and have a cheaper fee for doing international bitcoin transfers..

and that we are enjoying right now. for me, there's no failure on this creation. actually, i am thinking that satoshi was not thinking that the scope of his creation will go this big, having a multi-billion dollar market and basis of most crypto projects. the borderless transaction is just only one great contribution of btc. just compare the fees and the duration if you transfer large amount of money to the other side of the world. it would take only few minutes depending on your tx fees used to transfer btc to another wallet.

[apleio]

Satoshi's dream is still alive and It is fighting with the imposition of CBDC for compulsory use by all and the abolition of cash. It is the only way to escape the current financial system and central banks that is why they want to control Bitcoin price and with attempts to ban it.

[Fara Chan]

Satoshi's dream is still alive and It is fighting with the imposition of CBDC for compulsory use by all and the abolition of cash. It is the only way to escape the current financial system and central banks that is why they want to control Bitcoin price and with attempts to ban it.

Not like this is Satoshi Nakamoto's dream in creating bitcoin, there is no concept of Bitcoin development that was carried out by Satoshi to eliminate the function of fiat currency, I have almost never encountered this concept in the current journey of bitcoin.

Because the realm of taxation is the jurisdiction of various countries, although there are certain countries that are free from the use of taxes or smaller in number. If you consider Satoshi's dream to be a failure, then at this point we will never see bitcoin again, the tax has no direct relationship with the bitcoin link as stated by the OP. While it is true that as a rule trying to control bitcoin by trying to ban it, that also does not stop bitcoin, because the freedom that people expect is within the realm of the Bitcoin concept.

[Yatsan]

Satoshi's dream is still alive and It is fighting with the imposition of CBDC for compulsory use by all and the abolition of cash. It is the only way to escape the current financial system and central banks that is why they want to control Bitcoin price and with attempts to ban it.

Not like this is Satoshi Nakamoto's dream in creating bitcoin, there is no concept of Bitcoin development that was carried out by Satoshi to eliminate the function of fiat currency, I have almost never encountered this concept in the current journey of bitcoin.

Because the realm of taxation is the jurisdiction of various countries, although there are certain countries that are free from the use of taxes or smaller in number. If you consider Satoshi's dream to be a failure, then at this point we will never see bitcoin again, the tax has no direct relationship with the bitcoin link as stated by the OP. While it is true that as a rule trying to control bitcoin by trying to ban it, that also does not stop bitcoin, because the freedom that people expect is within the realm of the Bitcoin concept.

Well said. Also, taxations would only be done through third party wallets or banks such that if you would put an amount questionnable (have experienced that one) but there's no way they could trace all of your assets given that this industry is decentralized. Regarding satoshi's dream, who mentioned it given that we don't even know who he really is? These are just mere assumptions by most of us since this industry speaks for currency, then it is not surprising that people like us are assuming that the goal of this technology is to 'surpass' fiat currency. Unfortunately, things win't work that way. So for the meantime, we should atleast make use of this technology by means of investment.

[Hamphser]

Satoshi's dream is still alive and It is fighting with the imposition of CBDC for compulsory use by all and the abolition of cash. It is the only way to escape the current financial system and central banks that is why they want to control Bitcoin price and with attempts to ban it.

Not like this is Satoshi Nakamoto's dream in creating bitcoin, there is no concept of Bitcoin development that was carried out by Satoshi to eliminate the function of fiat currency, I have almost never encountered this concept in the current journey of bitcoin.

Because the realm of taxation is the jurisdiction of various countries, although there are certain countries that are free from the use of taxes or smaller in number. If you consider Satoshi's dream to be a failure, then at this point we will never see bitcoin again, the tax has no direct relationship with the bitcoin link as stated by the OP. While it is true that as a rule trying to control bitcoin by trying to ban it, that also does not stop bitcoin, because the freedom that people expect is within the realm of the Bitcoin concept.

Well said. Also, taxations would only be done through third party wallets or banks such that if you would put an amount questionnable (have experienced that one) but there's no way they could trace all of your assets given that this industry is decentralized. Regarding satoshi's dream, who mentioned it given that we don't even know who he really is? These are just mere assumptions by most of us since this industry speaks for currency, then it is not surprising that people like us are assuming that the goal of this technology is to 'surpass' fiat currency. Unfortunately, things win't work that way. So for the meantime, we should atleast make use of this technology by means of investment.

If we do simply tend to look at on the white paper of Bitcoin then it is really intended nor being created to be freed and able to avoid that 3rd party transactions which we've seen that it did really successfully

been recognized by the community or simply by the world.Recognition level might not really be still on the state where it is really that on huge scale but we are still existing on decades time
which means that there's still lots of rooms for this thing to go over or even been known.As long Bitcoin still have that demand then its not considered to be a failure of Satoshi.
Its true that we dont even know on who he is, whether he's an individual or a group of people.One things for sure that it did really give out that revolutionary thing that
gives us that freedom from full centralization and this is why it is really getting that soo much attention and demand.

[romero121]

The core behind the innovation is taking away the intermediary, with which it is possible to make the network decentralised and give the best privacy to the users. When people move through the centralised platforms, it isn't the mistake out of his innovation making his dream go away from the reality. It is the lack of awareness on using decentralised platforms.

Usage of non custodial wallets serves to be the best with which one can understand how perfect the innovation works as Satoshi have dreamt. People always look for the ease of access which at times land them on centralized platforms.

[Smartvirus]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

I don't see where all that doenst mean taxes. Perhaps its someone to stay private and conduct your financial transactions but, not every step of the way is private. We've got centralized exchanges that ensures kyc, sportsbookies and casinos that still demands kyc. Although these operates based on wallets and addresses which are not tied to a persons, banks have been able to trace certain accounts involved with crypto transactions, mainly whe you get to make the exchange (Buy, Sell, fund). The idea of crypto and not paying of taxes doent seat well with me. Taxes are one way in which modern civilization is built and that's okay.
Bitcoin or cryptocurrency provides an escape from being completely under a centralized system and so way to make quick and private transactions.

[Lubang Bawah]

Satoshi's dream is still alive and It is fighting with the imposition of CBDC for compulsory use by all and the abolition of cash. It is the only way to escape the current financial system and central banks that is why they want to control Bitcoin price and with attempts to ban it.

Dream of Satoshi when making bitcoin is simple that is only planning to make bitcoin for fast and cheap transactions, I'm sure he never thinks that bitcoin the price can touch $ 69k, especially since most bitcoin is currently used for speculation so that it makes many people rich in a short time .

[Fara Chan]

Well said. Also, taxations would only be done through third party wallets or banks such that if you would put an amount questionnable (have experienced that one) but there's no way they could trace all of your assets given that this industry is decentralized. Regarding satoshi's dream, who mentioned it given that we don't even know who he really is? These are just mere assumptions by most of us since this industry speaks for currency, then it is not surprising that people like us are assuming that the goal of this technology is to 'surpass' fiat currency. Unfortunately, things win't work that way. So for the meantime, we should atleast make use of this technology by means of investment.

Do you mean that taxes only apply if you make transactions in large amounts, because I see small transactions are also taxed, and even then direct deductions from the bank, whether as administrative fees or taxes, I don't know.

In some countries bitcoin is still used as an investment, has not been used as a transaction tool to purchase goods or services, which means that bitcoin still has to be exchanged for fiat currency when used to make purchases. As you said, we don't even know who he or the small group that called himself before creating bitcoin as a decentralized digital currency, that's why the mystery of bitcoin hasn't been completely solved until now.

[fullhdpixel]

Satoshi's dream is still alive and It is fighting with the imposition of CBDC for compulsory use by all and the abolition of cash. It is the only way to escape the current financial system and central banks that is why they want to control Bitcoin price and with attempts to ban it.

CBDC's are already there but no they are not for compulsory use. Physical versions of fiats are still there and won't vanished because not all people are into digitalization. However, there are countries where cryptocurrencies are banned so people there do only have limited choices when it comes to digital payment methods and they may consider these CBDC's.

There is no way for the government or the banks to control the BTC price. Remember they are allergic with it and if they buy loads of it then it will be awkward. It is so contradicting. No one can control BTC price even its founder, which is why BTC is termed to be the most decentralized crypto.

[Lubang Bawah]

The core behind the innovation is taking away the intermediary, with which it is possible to make the network decentralised and give the best privacy to the users. When people move through the centralised platforms, it isn't the mistake out of his innovation making his dream go away from the reality. It is the lack of awareness on using decentralised platforms.

Usage of non custodial wallets serves to be the best with which one can understand how perfect the innovation works as Satoshi have dreamt. People always look for the ease of access which at times land them on centralized platforms.

Ease is the most important thing from technology, now people will not want to learn traditional programming languages such as Java, Visual Basic or others, the presence of Bitcoin Wallets that are easy and safe to use is the most important thing that makes Bitcoin very popular, and of course this makes users continue to grow so it is increasingly popular.

[Ani1985]

I'm sure if Satoshi is still alive then he will be surprised by Bitcoin at this time, many users have made people make Bitcoin the main job, but the other side is the number of people and even millionaires who keep Bitcoin in the hope of getting a big profit someday.

[Sterbens]

The core behind the innovation is taking away the intermediary, with which it is possible to make the network decentralised and give the best privacy to the users. When people move through the centralised platforms, it isn't the mistake out of his innovation making his dream go away from the reality. It is the lack of awareness on using decentralised platforms.

Usage of non custodial wallets serves to be the best with which one can understand how perfect the innovation works as Satoshi have dreamt. People always look for the ease of access which at times land them on centralized platforms.

Ease is the most important thing from technology, now people will not want to learn traditional programming languages such as Java, Visual Basic or others, the presence of Bitcoin Wallets that are easy and safe to use is the most important thing that makes Bitcoin very popular, and of course this makes users continue to grow so it is increasingly popular.

The thing that I really like about bitcoin is the easy process, of course it is the main attraction for its users, especially when the control is in their full hands. This is what makes bitcoin different from the others.
It is very clear that Satoshi's mission is to free the payment system from central control or intermediaries. There may now be a change of track from what it should be, but it will surely always happen as it develops and there are more and more bitcoin enthusiasts.

[mathenye]

Satoshi, of course, didn't think that the development of bitcoin was like it is today, the market cap was very large and made many people rich people, bitcoin became the pioneer of many other projects so that it made job opportunities even better, another opportunity is to provide opportunities for anyone to profit by investing or daily trading.

Satoshi Nakamoto's ideal will not fail, he is a person who respects natural evolution, and everything that is happening now is already within the scope of Satoshi Nakamoto's planning. He is not surprised. The future of Bitcoin is the future of algorithms, the evolution of mathematics, the innovation of technology, and the revolution of culture. So with such a strong normal, his dream will lead us to achieve it.

[Emitdama]

Satoshi didn't imagine a world where we pay no taxes at all, he imagined a world where our money wouldn't go up and down because of bad moves by the government.

Fortunately or unfortunately the decentralization didn't prevented that yet, but it did helped a lot compared to fiat. Like look at USA, they printed literally 4 trillion dollars in the past five or so years, isn't that proof that bitcoin actually did good?

We are about to trade around $20k level right now, for many months we failed to see that, and for many months after we see it, we failed to recover that, and now we are seeing it as a bear run price, we dreamed of reaching 20k, now we think it's a bad price to be in. That's success.

[MarjorieZimmermanGinger]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

You are quite right in this discussion room, because here has far more complete features compared to other online media, but we also have to be selective in choosing and considering existing information, so that we get complete, correct information and have reference sources.
Personally, I have learned a lot about Bitcoin in this forum, so I know more about technical stuff directly related to Bitcoin and started investing in Bitcoin in the last year.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Satoshi Nakamoto cannot limit taxes on Bitcoin travel, because this is a legal domain where tax issues can never be eliminated in a government. The regulations of a country differ in the determination of taxes, so there are varying amounts that are set.

What I know is that taxes are taken not directly from Bitcoin, but from exchanges, wallets and others. Taxes will apply, if there is a transaction against Bitcoin that is converted into fiat currency. Thus the nature of Bitcoin remains anonymous and Satoshi Nakamoto has never failed in developing Bitcoin.

[bakasabo]

From my point of view, Satoshi's goal or dream failed completely. The majority does not even know and even does not intent to find out how Bitcoin and blockchain technology works. All they know is the name of the product that made someone rich, that they dream will make they rich, the product is demanded and traded widely. If we replace the word Bitcoin with something else, and gives same profit results, nothing will change much for those people. That is why I think dream has failed.

[RockBell]

I don't believe that Satoshi's dream has come to an end, and I believe that he never intended for bitcoin to function as a monetary system but rather as a payment method. Paying taxes also doesn't seem to have any impact on his vision, in fact, I believe that bitcoin is improving. If we look at the past and compare it to the present, we can see that countries like El Salvador and Brazil have adopted bitcoin, and El Salvador even has a bitcoin beach, which shows that things are improving

[karmamiu]

At the time bitcoin was created, although they think very innovatively, they didn't expect that there will be lots of problems such as taxes and enormous tx fees. Personally I could say that BTC is not reliable in terms of digital currency, but it paved the way of lots of useful ideas in terms of digital currency. Now I could tell that BTC will always be part of the history despite the upbringings.

[Joshapat]

In general it can be said that satoshi's dream did not fail, the most important dream of satoshi is to present bitcoin to everyone so that it is easy and cheap to transact, of course many dreams fail but in general they don't, and I'm sure what is happening with the development of bitcoin with the current market cap around $340 billion is a fantastic value and never thought before.

[South Park]

At the time bitcoin was created, although they think very innovatively, they didn't expect that there will be lots of problems such as taxes and enormous tx fees. Personally I could say that BTC is not reliable in terms of digital currency, but it paved the way of lots of useful ideas in terms of digital currency. Now I could tell that BTC will always be part of the history despite the upbringings.

I doubt that Satoshi was not able to foresee all the troubles bitcoin is experiencing, one of the reasons many people believe that Satoshi was not a person but a team is that the number of abilities he possessed were simply too high for a single person to have, so I really think he was able to foresee the scenario we are going through in which many regulations are being applied by the governments to bitcoin and he still believed his invention could endure it.

[beerlover]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

In the path of achieving compete decentralization, I guess we cannot avoid availing services from centralized exchange kind of services which might lead to be taxed as per your country law. But, the ultimate goal of bitcoin must be not depending and not trusting a centralized services for value transferring hence I believe it would be too early to call that Satoshi's dream got failed.

When we have more infrastructure for transacting within ourselves then I guess people will prefer p2p things and then government laws may not enforce you but still if you buy anything for bitcoin or avail any services for bitcoin then you may still need to pay tax which got nothing to do with decentralization.

[Hamphser]

At the time bitcoin was created, although they think very innovatively, they didn't expect that there will be lots of problems such as taxes and enormous tx fees. Personally I could say that BTC is not reliable in terms of digital currency, but it paved the way of lots of useful ideas in terms of digital currency. Now I could tell that BTC will always be part of the history despite the upbringings.

I doubt that Satoshi was not able to foresee all the troubles bitcoin is experiencing, one of the reasons many people believe that Satoshi was not a person but a team is that the number of abilities he possessed were simply too high for a single person to have, so I really think he was able to foresee the scenario we are going through in which many regulations are being applied by the governments to bitcoin and he still believed his invention could endure it.

Maybe yes or maybe not and this is something where people do really keeps on guessing whether Satoshi is a single person or a group of person.If ever he's just one then its impossible that he didnt able to live up that long but no one really knows if he do still seeing on whats the current situation of Bitcoin as of todays or into those multiple persona get involved on Bitcoins creation.I dont really see that this is called a
failed project considering that it is really still sitting on #1 ranking then it is really does simply imply that there's so much trust on it.
So we could eventually say that the project hasnt failed and there still lots of years for it to go or pass through, it might be facing up some challenges now but doesnt mean
that it would be failing in the end.Lets see on what the future looks like.

[xSkylarx]

In general it can be said that satoshi's dream did not fail, the most important dream of satoshi is to present bitcoin to everyone so that it is easy and cheap to transact, of course many dreams fail but in general they don't, and I'm sure what is happening with the development of bitcoin with the current market cap around $340 billion is a fantastic value and never thought before.

His already accomplished when people already know bitcoin and start using it. When Satoshi saw the value of its creation i am sure he is already happy and accomplished. I am hoping where he is right now he is happy and we as a user of Bitcoin we are really thankful that it arrived to us and help us financially.  I know bitcoin future is very bright and i am hoping that Bitcoin will last forever

[Punakawan]

I think so, the thing that makes Satoshi disappointed is because bitcoin has been used for speculative purposes so that the price of bitcoin fluctuates very much, I've heard that Satoshi's biggest hope is to make a transaction system that is faster and cheaper, at first bitcoin was as expected but slowly everything changed.

[reagansimms]

Taxes didn't make Satoshi's dream fail, Satoshi himself couldn't avoid the taxes imposed on the assets he owned. Taxes are regulated by the state, anyone who lives in that country must obey and comply with the policies set by the government. Crypto assets are not considered legal tender in some countries (rather they are a commodity).

Actually, tax regulations on Bitcoin or more generally on Crypto assets aim to provide protection and comfort to Crypto asset traders. Tax only applies when you use the services of a third party (Exchange) to carry out transactions such as selling assets that you own to be converted into fiat.

[Wexnident]

Satoshi's dream was done and over the moment Bitcoin was released and the people started using it. Whatever happens after that is basically the fault of the user themselves since they adopted the system Satoshi made, to another system (whether it be for ease of access or whatever). It was solely the fault of us, the users, to use Bitcoin that gave away its features of pseudo-anonymity and freedom. Besides, it's not like the centralized system is the only system out there left, the core, which is p2p, still exists if one really wants to look and use it.

[Sir Legend]

If satoshi was still alive and saw the current condition of bitcoin, of course he would be surprised, it could be said that bitcoin has lost its main function, namely as an alternative for payments other than fiat, as we know that currently bitcoin is only kept by people in the hope that prices will skyrocket in the future so he become rich, and speculators often do this to get richer.

[Sayeds56]

From my point of view, Satoshi's goal or dream failed completely. The majority does not even know and even does not intent to find out how Bitcoin and blockchain technology works. All they know is the name of the product that made someone rich, that they dream will make they rich, the product is demanded and traded widely. If we replace the word Bitcoin with something else, and gives same profit results, nothing will change much for those people. That is why I think dream has failed.

I agree with your opinion that what Satoshi perceived about Bitcoin as peer to peer method of payment without third party intervention, unfortunately reality is different and Bitcoin is being perceived a kind of investment instrument which can make you rich overnight. But I am optimistic that in future it will be adapted as national currency as done in Salvador where the experiment was not so successful but some more countries may follow this example in future.

[m2017]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

The problem you mentioned becomes relevant if btcoin is converted to fiat. If you don't do this, then there is no problem. Nothing will stop you from using bitcoin, buying or selling for BTC P2P  and remaining as anonymous as possible. In general, the dreams of Satoshi about bitcoin are quite real. All that is required is to fulfill them if you are an adherent of these ideas.

[Sayeds56]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

The dream of Satoshi Nakamatu was to give us a corruption free financial system , this dream has been realized to some extent but it won't be fully released unless mass adoption of takes place and Bitcoin is widely accepted  for buying goods and services, it might take long but it will happen.

Bitcoin is a big success in a way that it created many millionaires from middle class who had strong faith in its potential to become fast growing asset and invested in it when nobody was interested to buy it.

[Lubang Bawah]

What I've heard that Satoshi's biggest dream of making bitcoin is to present a simple, fast and low-cost transaction system solution, if we compare it at this time of course it can be said that his dream failed, bitcoin is only used for trading or speculation, stored for the long term because it hopes the price will skyrocketed, the transaction speed is also getting reduced, and during a busy session the transaction fees are very expensive.

[Marvell1]

From my point of view, Satoshi's goal or dream failed completely. The majority does not even know and even does not intent to find out how Bitcoin and blockchain technology works. All they know is the name of the product that made someone rich, that they dream will make they rich, the product is demanded and traded widely. If we replace the word Bitcoin with something else, and gives same profit results, nothing will change much for those people. That is why I think dream has failed.

If we look at Satoshi's original goal of creating bitcoin, it's clear that his dream has failed. Satoshi's goal is to create a peer-to-peer digital currency that is not controlled by anyone, but today, we have turned bitcoin into a profitable investment and traded on centralized exchanges, nothing more no less. Bitcoin is still decentralized, but its intended use is no longer correct. Satoshi's dream failed because of our behavior, not because of his fault.

[19Nov16]

If we compare the current reality of bitcoin with the dream of satoshi of course it will fail, bitcoin is now a speculative asset, people don't want to transact with bitcoin because most online payments do not yet provide a bitcoin option, what is happening is that there are more and more exchanges that only trade bitcoin so that people have bitcoin as their goal is for profit not for transactions.

[Haunebu]

Satoshi's dream was impractical to some extent to be honest. Expecting a payment method to be 100% decentralised is wishful thinking. However, BTC is still decentralised to a large extent as long as you follow proper procedures.

BTC and other popular cryptocurrencies will always be way more decentralised for obvious reasons when compared to other financial currencies.

[rendravolt]

If satoshi was still alive and saw the current condition of bitcoin, of course he would be surprised, it could be said that bitcoin has lost its main function, namely as an alternative for payments other than fiat, as we know that currently bitcoin is only kept by people in the hope that prices will skyrocket in the future so he become rich, and speculators often do this to get richer.

Well, I'm sure he's still alive today, it's just that no one knows where he is. Even so he must also monitor the development of bitcoin from afar. I think the main function of bitcoin as an alternative payment is still there in a few places that are rarely exposed, but it's very difficult to find it. So far, bitcoin is only intended as an asset and there's nothing wrong with that, because when people want to have bitcoin, of course they have to buy it from an exchange and that makes the price of bitcoin go up, isn't that a positive thing?

[Paul Pogba]

It could be said that Satoshi's dream failed, look at the current condition of bitcoin, the daily transaction volume can average $ 15 billion, but only trading on exchanges, not peer to peer, exchange owners are certainly rich people even though they only set fees below 1%.

[coupable]

If we compare the current reality of bitcoin with the dream of satoshi of course it will fail, bitcoin is now a speculative asset, people don't want to transact with bitcoin because most online payments do not yet provide a bitcoin option, what is happening is that there are more and more exchanges that only trade bitcoin so that people have bitcoin as their goal is for profit not for transactions.

I can't understand how Satoshi's scheme actually failed.  Considering the age of Bitcoin since its inception and the huge number of services that accept Bitcoin payments, in addition to the revolution in the field of digital assets and smart contracts, I believe that Satoshi's vision succeeded at a much faster rate than he himself expected.  I expect he is sitting today smiling and watching how the world is changing.

[Semar Mesem]

I don't know in detail what satoshi's dream is, but when I read articles or listen to YouTube about the story of making bitcoin, the hope is to make bitcoin an alternative payment system that is done directly without the need for services such as banks, and in my opinion this function has been achieved even easier To send bitcoin, namely by scanning, so you don't need to copy and paste the address again.

[MoonOfLife]

It could be said that Satoshi's dream failed, look at the current condition of bitcoin, the daily transaction volume can average $ 15 billion, but only trading on exchanges, not peer to peer, exchange owners are certainly rich people even though they only set fees below 1%.

If you look at it from that angle, his dream didn't come true, but what's more important for us to look at is bitcoin has helped many people change their lives, they have a better life. So I don't consider him a total failure, he has succeeded in some way in helping people. No one can do like him, his dream did not fail.

[Vinaa77]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

There is no tax as long as you use Bitcoin Core developed by Satoshi Nakamoto. But if you use the exchange to make transactions, then you have to pay taxes indirectly. Why can taxes be imposed on crypto? Because the next crypto developer after Satoshi Nakamoto wants to be popular by showing his identity, and presenting himself to the public. So there is a place for the government to collect taxes, in other words the government wants to ask for their share of what someone develops.

There's nothing wrong with what Satoshi Nakamoto developed, it's just that we fail in actual use. Simply put, when we participate in a project and ask to complete KYC, this is contrary to the goals developed by Satoshi Nakamoto (anonymous). So we don't have to go far to think about tax issues and so on.

[reagansimms]

It could be said that Satoshi's dream failed, look at the current condition of bitcoin, the daily transaction volume can average $ 15 billion, but only trading on exchanges, not peer to peer, exchange owners are certainly rich people even though they only set fees below 1%.

If you look at it from that angle, his dream didn't come true, but what's more important for us to look at is bitcoin has helped many people change their lives, they have a better life. So I don't consider him a total failure, he has succeeded in some way in helping people. No one can do like him, his dream did not fail.

There is no failure when judged in a positive way that can make it easy for anyone who holds Bitcoin. Satoshi's goal of creating Bitcoin was to provide convenience and security in payments, with Blockchain technology in it making transaction costs cheaper.
Bitcoin is a new technology in finance that will allow replacing paper money into digital money in future financial transactions.

After Bitcoin was present and known to all elements of society, there were also more and more Altcoins in circulation. Now several countries have issued CBDC as a substitute for paper money. The more digital money is adopted, the more popular Bitcoin is among the public, if Satoshi does not introduce Bitcoin to the world, until now we still rely on third parties (Banks) to make domestic or inter country money transfer transactions.

[TalkativeCoin]

I don't think he failed, on the contrary, it evolved. He influenced the development of other cryptocurrencies and blockchain-based technologies, ultimately becoming much more than just Bitcoin. Ultimately, it's up to individual interpretation to determine whether or not Satoshi's dream has failed, but with everything considered, I doubt not a lot of people would conclude the same.

[Brown Ava]

Since the government laid out regulations for crypto, this also meant our crypto is going to be taxed. It's fair.

The government needs funds to govern society. Believe it or not, it's necessary since we live as a society and we all need the government as well. What is not worth it is if our taxes go somewhere outside the country so spend on war we as citizens don't benefit.

great point, thank you

[TheUltraElite]

I don't think he failed, on the contrary, it evolved. He influenced the development of other cryptocurrencies and blockchain-based technologies, ultimately becoming much more than just Bitcoin. Ultimately, it's up to individual interpretation to determine whether or not Satoshi's dream has failed, but with everything considered, I doubt not a lot of people would conclude the same.

Failure or success will depend on individual thought process, I agree. Again I feel what Satoshi has developed is still being worked on and developed further - this shows that he has been successful in my opinion.

There will always be naysayers but looking at the big picture, I feel we have been pretty successful.

Government and their approach to bitcoin might be different but the point is that the use of Bitcoin has increased gradually aside from the trading of Bitcoin.

[Lubang Bawah]

I don't think he failed, on the contrary, it evolved. He influenced the development of other cryptocurrencies and blockchain-based technologies, ultimately becoming much more than just Bitcoin. Ultimately, it's up to individual interpretation to determine whether or not Satoshi's dream has failed, but with everything considered, I doubt not a lot of people would conclude the same.

The most important dream of the presence of bitcoin is that it can be used for direct transactions peer to peer so that it does not require the services of third -party, the hope of course can produce transactions that are fast, cheap and of course safe, unfortunately big changes occur because at present the biggest use of Bitcoin is not for transactions but for speculation or trading.

[Godday]

Every country must have regulations that have been set and this will certainly continue to be applied in fields that are already related to currencies and currently include digital currencies, because the popularity of the crypto world is growing and very many users already have assets that are so large that certain countries want to be involved in these assets, But currently there are some countries that do not tax crypto users, of course this is very beneficial for users, and we all know that bitcoin is fully decentralized so Satochi's dream still continues.

[koang]

It could be said that Satoshi's dream failed, look at the current condition of bitcoin, the daily transaction volume can average $ 15 billion, but only trading on exchanges, not peer to peer, exchange owners are certainly rich people even though they only set fees below 1%.

No, no... that is an interpretation of dishonest framing
Bitcoin isn’t peer-to-peer. Bitcoin is a Store of Value
Please read up on the basics of Bitcoin and satoshi’s writings

“Bitcoin [is] more like a collectible or commodity.” - Satoshi

[posi]

I don't think he failed, on the contrary, it evolved. He influenced the development of other cryptocurrencies and blockchain-based technologies, ultimately becoming much more than just Bitcoin. Ultimately, it's up to individual interpretation to determine whether or not Satoshi's dream has failed, but with everything considered, I doubt not a lot of people would conclude the same.

Failure or success will depend on individual thought process, I agree. Again I feel what Satoshi has developed is still being worked on and developed further - this shows that he has been successful in my opinion.

There will always be naysayers but looking at the big picture, I feel we have been pretty successful.

Government and their approach to bitcoin might be different but the point is that the use of Bitcoin has increased gradually aside from the trading of Bitcoin.

I agree with you, there is no right or wrong answer, it's up to what each individual thinks. Many argue that it has failed because it cannot become a currency or is not peer-to-peer but is becoming more centralized on centralized exchanges. But to me, bitcoin has succeeded, Satoshi was right when he created bitcoin, bitcoin is opening up many opportunities for us to help many people become financially free, and own their assets without any 3rd party. Bitcoin is not perfect, but it succeeds because it has helped so many people change their lives.

[Moneyprism]

no, his dream has succeeded,, the proof is that now many people already hold crypto and have experienced the benefits of using crypto in their transactions .. it is only a matter of time before more people globally will use crypto in their transactions

[fullhdpixel]

Failure or success will depend on individual thought process, I agree. Again I feel what Satoshi has developed is still being worked on and developed further - this shows that he has been successful in my opinion.

There will always be naysayers but looking at the big picture, I feel we have been pretty successful.

Government and their approach to bitcoin might be different but the point is that the use of Bitcoin has increased gradually aside from the trading of Bitcoin.

I agree with you, there is no right or wrong answer, it's up to what each individual thinks. Many argue that it has failed because it cannot become a currency or is not peer-to-peer but is becoming more centralized on centralized exchanges. But to me, bitcoin has succeeded, Satoshi was right when he created bitcoin, bitcoin is opening up many opportunities for us to help many people become financially free, and own their assets without any 3rd party. Bitcoin is not perfect, but it succeeds because it has helped so many people change their lives.

I think there is a wrong answer in here and that is when they say that satoshi's dream have failed but the truth is that his dreams have actually succeeded. If it was a failure then there will be no BTCs up to this date. BTC is a currency, and that is why it is called a crypto-currency so I don't know why some can say that BTC can't become a currency.

Maybe they can say that because they think many people treats their BTC as an asset and they hold or trade it instead of using it for payment purposes or for shopping. That might be true but the point is that BTC is still a currency and there are still a few portion of people who use their BTC the way it was meant to be.

[maikrothaman]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

I will explain what I think. Satoshi aimed to build something wholly independent of centralized finance. His basic idea was a system where two people could trade payments without an intermediary. This was done, but my guess is that he thought his system would work well enough for everyday transactions. As an alternative, Bitcoin only permits one person to send money to another (similar to a donation type of payment). Nothing else is enforced by the protocol. People use centralized exchanges because this feature is missing. Each person started to deposit funds into a single large website and exchange coins and assets. The website also allow users to withdraw coins to their wallets. I believe Satoshi did not see the risks associated with centralized exchanges and systems at the first few years of Bitcoin. As most people will simply use them because they are less expensive, simpler, and faster. The truth is that everyone who uses Bitcoin does so in some way. Most privacy guarantees were breached as a result of this centralization. Because these massive service providers keep logs and share them with certain groups, privacy in the Bitcoin network is no longer very good. I came across a new project a few months ago that puts this entire system to the test. The new cryptocurrency Pandora Cash features some novel cryptographic techniques and by design permits anonymous payments. It works similar to how Monero operates. Just recently, a decentralized peer-to-peer market was launched. This market enables users to buy and sell a variety of goods for Pandora Cash. Moderators can be used to settle transactions and eliminate fraud from the system. Due to this, centralized exchanges are no longer required.

[Tanvi50_]

no middleman is involved. That's Bitcoin. the moment you put your funds in a centralized exchange, you lose that and what bitcoin is aimed for. satoshi's dream has not failed. some people are making stupid things around bitcoin, leading to its fall. yet bitcoin is on the top chart, still holding its ground to stay on the top. you can dream, but to make it a reality, that's a whole different story. with dedication and hard work, anything is possible. one day this dream will come true for sure.

[serjent05]

It could be said that Satoshi's dream failed, look at the current condition of bitcoin, the daily transaction volume can average $ 15 billion, but only trading on exchanges, not peer to peer, exchange owners are certainly rich people even though they only set fees below 1%.

People tend to speculate and profit from this speculation thus creating a market for trading Bitcoin is a normal thing.  Besides having a marketplace or exchanges for trading somehow give liquidity for Bitcoin since people will then set a demand wall and the people who wanted to cash out have the fund to support their intention.  The trading platform is part of the ecosystem why Bitcoin is thriving today and the reason why Satoshi's dreams are still alive.  You cannot say it is a failure when the Bitcoin economy is still thriving.  The dream is still in process.  You can only say it is a failure if Bitcoin cease to exist and Bitcoin isn't used as P2P anymore.

[maikrothaman]

It could be said that Satoshi's dream failed, look at the current condition of bitcoin, the daily transaction volume can average $ 15 billion, but only trading on exchanges, not peer to peer, exchange owners are certainly rich people even though they only set fees below 1%.

People tend to speculate and profit from this speculation thus creating a market for trading Bitcoin is a normal thing.  Besides having a marketplace or exchanges for trading somehow give liquidity for Bitcoin since people will then set a demand wall and the people who wanted to cash out have the fund to support their intention.  The trading platform is part of the ecosystem why Bitcoin is thriving today and the reason why Satoshi's dreams are still alive.  You cannot say it is a failure when the Bitcoin economy is still thriving.  The dream is still in process.  You can only say it is a failure if Bitcoin cease to exist and Bitcoin isn't used as P2P anymore.

The main problem is that, according to a survey of bitcoin users, 99 out of 100 would claim that they only use it as a speculative asset. Only one person in a hundred might claim they used it for something useful (non speculative). However, despite becoming the BEST STOCK, Bitcoin fell short of its goals of becoming a peer-to-peer payment system. Concerns over privacy and scalability, in my opinion, are the causes of this. merely my opinions.

[nurilham]

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

People don't want to have a tax for their holdings but the government always tries to take advantage by forcing the tax. But in reality, many governtment cannot apply taxes for BTC holdings, so how can you claim Satoshi fail?
Anyway, people are just the victims, they still struggle to have pure decentralization in Bitcoin. It is a challenge for people to objectify Satoshi's dream of freedom and anonymity. I'm pretty sure that we will always strive for anonymity and freedom in Bitcoin. That's why it is better to use P2P or DEX to trade BTC, don't use CEX.

[bitgolden]

Failure or success will depend on individual thought process, I agree. Again I feel what Satoshi has developed is still being worked on and developed further - this shows that he has been successful in my opinion.

There will always be naysayers but looking at the big picture, I feel we have been pretty successful.

Government and their approach to bitcoin might be different but the point is that the use of Bitcoin has increased gradually aside from the trading of Bitcoin.

I agree with you, there is no right or wrong answer, it's up to what each individual thinks. Many argue that it has failed because it cannot become a currency or is not peer-to-peer but is becoming more centralized on centralized exchanges. But to me, bitcoin has succeeded, Satoshi was right when he created bitcoin, bitcoin is opening up many opportunities for us to help many people become financially free, and own their assets without any 3rd party. Bitcoin is not perfect, but it succeeds because it has helped so many people change their lives.

I am not entirely sure, I mean there is definitely a right or wrong in this case, we just don't know which one is which, because we can't get an answer and that is why it looks like there is no right or wrong. Since we can't ask Satoshi if he thinks it is failed or it has not failed so far, then we do not know the real answer, when you do not have that real answer the only thing left is to speculate.

That is why it is clear that we should not be working towards making assumptions neither, but if we ever do then there is nobody that could say we are wrong and back it up with facts, unless Satoshi comes out of the woods and explain anything, which we all know won't happen. The truth is "there", we just can't get it.

[arabspaceship123]

There's upwards of 100 posts. OP posted two total posts. If they aren't checking replies we're wasting our time.

[GxSTxV]

If truly we are all here to share crypto experiences then this is another one, I could be the one lacking the knowledge but I believe creating this topic will open my eye to better understanding.

Satoshi Nakamoto created Bitcoin as the perfect P2P digital money but today people are forced to pay tax on their holdings. Haven't this make the whole anonymous and freedom dream of Nakamoto failed?

Well short answer of your topic question is no and no Satoshi dream is already been achieved in my opinion, the smallest proof is our community here in Bitcointalk and how we understand the coin of bitcointalk and still under its rules of anonymity and privacy. The other rules are made by governments just to take control of people funds and tax them because clearly they got annoyed of Satoshi biggest innovation