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Author Topic: USDC is not safe  (Read 1031 times)
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December 13, 2022, 12:01:31 AM
 #41

Well, we all know Tether has issues and many people say that USDC is much safer than USDT which is not true according to this research.
None is safe, it is only a matter of when one is suitable for our trading pair. This is not for long-term holding, that's why I never use stable coins for my long term holding. But, if as long it is used for trading pairs in certain exchanges, Ima still using them. But, I am also aware enough that this is high risk. Everytime in the crypto currency moreover in centralized platforms, which are regulated and limited by certain laws, regulations, and institutions, may not be safe 100%, not recommended100% for us. But sometimes, we only can use them for a while, at least, we know when to stop using them in the right time.

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December 13, 2022, 12:27:10 AM
Last edit: January 12, 2023, 12:01:27 AM by mprep
Merited by PowerGlove (4), vv181 (1)
 #42

At the moment (and in the foreseeable future) no centralized stablecoin is safe. Period. Unless you have no other options in or outside crypto, do not keep money in stablecoins for any amount of time beyond what you need the stablecoin for (trading at an exchange that doesn't accept fiat, paying for goods to a merchant that only accepts stablecoins, etc.). By keeping money in a centralized stablecoin you are getting the downsides of the traditional financial system (intermediaries can easily control and freeze your money) without any of the protections afforded by battle-tested regulations of that financial system (your money is not insured and if something goes really wrong, as it has several times already, your "dollars" are gonna be worth as much as the Zimbawean dollar).

Now what I stated is a theoretical statement based on (IMO) a rational assessment of the pros and cons of stablecoins. However, if that has not convinced you, let's look at some examples. Starting with the biggest elephant in the room - Tether / USDT. Let's just check their Wikipedia page for the thing that matters the most to any stablecoin holder - whether their stablecoins are backed by real US Dollars:

Quote
Tether claims that it intends to hold all United States dollars in reserve so that it can meet customer withdrawals upon demand. It was unable to meet all withdrawal requests in 2017.[40] Tether purports to make reserve account holdings transparent via external audit; however, Tether never produced an audit showing it had the purported reserve.[21] In January 2018 Tether announced that they no longer had a relationship with their auditor.[41]
<...>
On September 19, 2022, due to an ongoing lawsuit in New York District Court, Bitfinex and Tether (referred to in court records as B/T), were ordered to produce documents showing the backing of USDT, the outcome of which is still pending.[43]
<...>
In September 2017, Tether published a memorandum from a public accounting firm that Tether Limited claimed showed that tethers were fully backed by US dollars;[46] however, according to the New York Times, independent attorney Lewis Cohen stated the document, because of the careful way it was phrased, does not prove that the Tether coins are backed by dollars.[17] The documents also fail to ascertain whether the balances in question are otherwise encumbered.[40] The accounting firm specifically stated that

    This information is intended solely to assist the management of Tether Limited ... and is not intended to be, and should not be, used or relied upon by any other party.[46]

Tether has failed to present audits showing that the amount of tethers outstanding are backed one-to-one by U.S. dollars on deposit despite repeated claims that they would.[47] A June 2018 attempt at an audit was posted on their website in June 2018 which showed a report by the law firm Freeh, Sporkin & Sullivan LLP (FSS) which appeared to confirm that the issued tethers were fully backed by dollars. However, FSS stated "FSS is not an accounting firm and did not perform the above review and confirmations using Generally Accepted Accounting Principles," and "The above confirmation of bank and tether balances should not be construed as the results of an audit and were not conducted in accordance with Generally Accepted Auditing Standards."[7] Stuart Hoegner, Tether's general counsel said "the bottom line is an audit cannot be obtained. The big four firms are anathema to that level of risk. We’ve gone for what we think is the next best thing."[47]

(I've specifically left the source numbers in to make a point that these statements were sourced from external publications)

If this is not giving you massive warning signs, I don't know what will. If you're looking for a more in depth perspective of what USDT is and who its run by, I'd recommend Youtuber Coffezilla's "Exposing Tether - Bitcoin's Biggest Secret" as a starting point. While I do find him a bit too clickbait'y in his style, the points he presents are solid and it's a great tl;dr, even if you're not interested in researching the topic further.

Moving over to Binance's BUSD, while it seems to be less risky than USDT (which is a very low bar), it's important to not just look at what BUSD is, but what Binance is. While it seems to be one of the largest, if not the largest, cryptocurrency exchange offering a product whose security relies on a strong regulatory environment, the company is established in the Cayman Islands, a well known financial offshore territory. They did open a separate entity (Binance.US) for their US customers (after Binance was banned from operating in the US) "which nonetheless is banned in six states: Hawaii, Idaho, Louisiana, New York, Texas, and Vermont". Furthermore, according to a Reuters special investigation "How Binance CEO and aides plotted to dodge regulators in U.S. and UK", it seems like Binance isn't really a big fan with having to comply with government regulations, sometimes even (allegedly) through legally questionable means such as backdating documents intended to avoid new laws. Stepping away from all the regulation stuff, we have Binance's Binance Smart Chain, which the exchange seems position as part of decentralized finance in its marketing (e.g. Binance in its article "Binance and BNB Chain: What’s the Difference?" states that "BNB Chain was originally initiated by Binance but has since grown to become a community-driven, permissionless, and decentralized blockchain ecosystem.") yet, according to a Messari researcher, it seems that Binance Smart Chain and its accompanying Binance Chain seem to be effectively centralized.

Now to be fair, it's indeed true that BUSD was founded by Binance in partnership with Paxos with Paxos holding the reserves (as per the their Wikipedia article), I'd still be skeptical as in large and complicated systems with a lot of moving parts, there's still ways those systems can collapse on their own, let alone if any malice is involved (e.g. something going wrong with the Binance issued Binance-Peg BUSD)

And now we've reached USDC. Ironically, of all the big centralized stablecoin players I consider USDC as the least questionable player. While I don't know the credibility of the claims that USDC is in trouble (as cited by OP), if those allegations are true, that should tell you everything you need to know about how trustworthy any stablecoin is, let alone the less reputable ones.

P.S. While some users might jump in and suggest DAI (or similar decentralized stablecoins) as alternatives, do keep in mind that there's been reports that more than half of DAI's collateral is comprised of USDC. So if there are any major centralized players, decentralized collateral-based stablecoins might be subject to similar pitfalls to their centralized counterparts. And if we were to turn to algorithmic stablecoins, I think most of us remember the UST death spiral.

P.P.S. If you want to keep a substantial amount of money in USDC or in any other stablecoin for those high (and usually completely unsustainable and / or incredibly risky) returns in an attempt to avoid inflation slowly eroding your assets, I'd recommend checking this post of mine out for ideas.

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December 14, 2022, 09:24:01 PM
 #43

This article really aged well. USDC has weathered many storms, and obviously came through this particular issue unscathed, so maybe it is better than Tether(for now). But if you are looking for long term store of value why don't you split between USDC, USDT and BUSD?

Do you know that recently binance has stop the withdrawals of USDC? I know they have given a proper reason to it but again i dont feel comfortable with any of these stable coins. Previously i thought BUSD might be the better of these stable coins but the recent Binance fud change my mind.

What i hope that none of these stable coin collapses, as if it happens it will be very bad for the overall crypto market.

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December 14, 2022, 10:03:52 PM
 #44

Do you know that recently binance has stop the withdrawals of USDC? I know they have given a proper reason to it but again i dont feel comfortable with any of these stable coins. Previously i thought BUSD might be the better of these stable coins but the recent Binance fud change my mind.

What i hope that none of these stable coin collapses, as if it happens it will be very bad for the overall crypto market.
But they resumed the withdrawal after 8 hours, and the CEO of Binance mentioned the reason for that action they took, but if you feel panic and uncomfortable, you can divide your funds into other safe stablecoins. I have been reading negative news about USDT for days and today I see that people are posting FUD about USDC even though Changpeng Zhao tried to calm investors' fears via his Twitter account but to no avail. For me, I put the largest part of my capital in BUSD and put the other parts of my capital in USDT and USDC in anticipation of anything happening so that my loss is not huge, so be assured and divide your capital and do not put it all in one stablecoin, this is the perfect solution.

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December 15, 2022, 09:26:51 AM
 #45

Which stablecoin is safe guys? Whenever there is a Bull market, Tether is printed and launched. This makes me insecure. Who prints the Erc20-based Tether, for example? That means it's a central situation. Isn't it against the logic of Blockchain? I am currently doing my transactions with Busd. Already, CZ is delisting some trading pairs to strengthen Busd, while doing nothing to trades with Busd. Is there a stable coin that you call strong or reliable? For example, could Dai be one of them?
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December 15, 2022, 10:13:01 AM
 #46

...All of these coins USDT, and USDC and even BUSD are not safe. The Algorithmic stable coins like Dai can also lose their peg against the dollar in a crisis situation...

If there is a distrust of stablecoins, it is necessary to leave only the part that is necessary for trading, and convert the remaining stablecoins into fiat. Converting to fiat and back to stablecoin takes very little time and commission, but it will bring you confidence in the future.

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December 15, 2022, 02:46:17 PM
 #47

Which stablecoin is safe guys? Whenever there is a Bull market, Tether is printed and launched. This makes me insecure. Who prints the Erc20-based Tether, for example? That means it's a central situation. Isn't it against the logic of Blockchain? I am currently doing my transactions with Busd. Already, CZ is delisting some trading pairs to strengthen Busd, while doing nothing to trades with Busd. Is there a stable coin that you call strong or reliable? For example, could Dai be one of them?

It seems to me that this is far from the way you write!! I believe that each token is assigned one dollar! Otherwise, it's all weird! Even each erc token has some value behind it, otherwise where would the volume come from?? If nothing is assigned to it, it means that it has no value in itself and it has no volume! I think it's a misconception that Tether is not pegged to the dollar!

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December 15, 2022, 03:06:52 PM
 #48

Do you know that recently binance has stop the withdrawals of USDC? I know they have given a proper reason to it but again i dont feel comfortable with any of these stable coins. Previously i thought BUSD might be the better of these stable coins but the recent Binance fud change my mind.

What i hope that none of these stable coin collapses, as if it happens it will be very bad for the overall crypto market.
But they resumed the withdrawal after 8 hours, and the CEO of Binance mentioned the reason for that action they took, but if you feel panic and uncomfortable, you can divide your funds into other safe stablecoins. I have been reading negative news about USDT for days and today I see that people are posting FUD about USDC even though Changpeng Zhao tried to calm investors' fears via his Twitter account but to no avail. For me, I put the largest part of my capital in BUSD and put the other parts of my capital in USDT and USDC in anticipation of anything happening so that my loss is not huge, so be assured and divide your capital and do not put it all in one stablecoin, this is the perfect solution.

So far, withdrawals on Binance have been no problem, even though the withdrawal amount is estimated at around 6 billion, and everything is very smooth.
In my opinion, there is no need to hold various stablecoins because once they are centralized nothing is safe, and holding them on centralized exchanges is already unsafe.
Currently, converting from fiat to stablecoins is relatively easy, and if we do not need to use that money, it is safer to change to fiat than to hold stablecoins in fear.

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December 15, 2022, 03:31:21 PM
 #49

There are several ways to keep your stable coins safe, depending on your preferences and needs. First, you can store your stable coins in a trusted wallet such as a hardware wallet or a secure software wallet. This will guarantee that your stable coins are not accessible to unwanted third parties. Secondly, you can store your stable coins on regulated and trusted exchanges, which have a good security system in place to protect their customers' assets. However, it also carries a higher risk as exchanges can experience attacks or theft. So, it's best to consider carefully before deciding on the best way to keep your coins stable.

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December 15, 2022, 03:38:24 PM
 #50

the thing I see clearly is how binance has a stable coin that is BUSD. i think it would be great to divert our assets in BUSD as it is clear in its reserves with binance from any stable coin. I think that's enough of how we should trust it as a safe stable coin.

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December 18, 2022, 07:40:44 PM
 #51

A centralized intermediaries are a point of failure. Even a decentralized stable coin is prone to falls due to the underlying system, take the example of UST. The flaw might be hidden for many people who do not dig deeper into whether such system is able to cope with the pressure of the market. I'm afraid a big hit on a stablecoin would make the cryptocurrency market takes a downturn, we know how DeFi market relies on the stablecoin.

The point is most stable coins highly rely upon a currency that is managed by centralized entities, this specifies a scope of failure to the company that manages the token. Personally, as in "stable" means, I'm sure Bitcoin is stable enough for me. Nevertheless, I understand those who seek less volatility or safely manage their funds.
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December 18, 2022, 08:02:52 PM
 #52

Well, we all know Tether has issues and many people say that USDC is much safer than USDT which is not true according to this research.
Although this tweet is few months old but it is a moment of concern. All of these coins USDT, and USDC and even BUSD are not safe. The Algorithmic stable coins like Dai can also lose their peg against the dollar in a crisis situation.

In this situation, what can be the best way to store our stable coins  Huh
None of the current crypto is safe except Bitcoin. As long as the crypto is still changing both in terms of supply, from the PoW system to PoS and so on, then the crypto is not safe. This means that there is still a possibility to do something outside of our instincts, or there is still a possibility to be stopped by the running system. Likewise with the current stable coins that we consider safe with a value equivalent to Fiat. If the addition of the supply continues and suddenly they buy up most of the Bitcoin with the stable coins they are developing, then the price of Bitcoin will increase and the stable coins will drop because the amount of supply exceeds the needs of the exchange.

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December 18, 2022, 08:16:27 PM
 #53

None of the current crypto is safe except Bitcoin. As long as the crypto is still changing both in terms of supply, from the PoW system to PoS and so on, then the crypto is not safe. This means that there is still a possibility to do something outside of our instincts, or there is still a possibility to be stopped by the running system. Likewise with the current stable coins that we consider safe with a value equivalent to Fiat. If the addition of the supply continues and suddenly they buy up most of the Bitcoin with the stable coins they are developing, then the price of Bitcoin will increase and the stable coins will drop because the amount of supply exceeds the needs of the exchange.

And what category of people do you think bitcoin is safe for? If you say bitcoin is safe for everyone, that's not quite right. Bitcoin can be dangerous for short-term investors because it is volatile. Many investors consider bitcoin a risky asset. A risky asset cannot be safe. So it's worth rephrasing your definition. Bitcoin is more reliable than other altcoins.

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December 20, 2022, 08:06:46 AM
 #54

This issue of safety in stable coin create lots of fears in cryptocurrency investors since the time of Terra UST depeg and Luna crash. The only stable coins mostly trusted now are BUSD and USDT. And I doubt either of them can also survive depeg attack if every cryptocurrency stakeholders do not come together to defend them.
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December 20, 2022, 10:20:02 AM
 #55

There are several ways to keep your stable coins safe, depending on your preferences and needs. First, you can store your stable coins in a trusted wallet such as a hardware wallet or a secure software wallet. This will guarantee that your stable coins are not accessible to unwanted third parties. Secondly, you can store your stable coins on regulated and trusted exchanges, which have a good security system in place to protect their customers' assets. However, it also carries a higher risk as exchanges can experience attacks or theft. So, it's best to consider carefully before deciding on the best way to keep your coins stable.

Incorrect, all stable coins are centralized, so it is also not safe if you store them in a non-custodial wallet. Centralization means they are controlled by a 3rd party, so even if you keep them in your personal wallet, they can still freeze your assets. For me, there is no such thing as 100% safe in this market, not even bitcoin. Investing in cryptocurrencies means that we have to take risks from the start, so invest only the money you can lose.

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December 21, 2022, 10:45:05 AM
 #56

Well, we all know Tether has issues and many people say that USDC is much safer than USDT which is not true according to this research.
Although this tweet is few months old but it is a moment of concern. All of these coins USDT, and USDC and even BUSD are not safe. The Algorithmic stable coins like Dai can also lose their peg against the dollar in a crisis situation.

In this situation, what can be the best way to store our stable coins  Huh
...

We can't trust anything that's centralized these days as your funds could easily get lost or stolen in a blink of an eye. There's a reason why Satoshi made Bitcoin a cryptocurrency independent of third-parties. Adding centralization (single point of failure) will bring us back to the failures of banks. I'd only trust decentralized stablecoins that are collaterized by other crypto assets. Of course, a huge downfall in crypto market prices could leave with you nothing in return. But it's better to "hodl" a decentralized stablecoin whose keys you control than a centralized one.

To be on the safe side, just cash out your crypto to Fiat and you'll never have to worry about losing your money ever again. No one knows when disaster strikes, so it's best to be prepared just in case. Just my opinion Smiley

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January 06, 2023, 08:10:57 PM
 #57

None of the current crypto is safe except Bitcoin. As long as the crypto is still changing both in terms of supply, from the PoW system to PoS and so on, then the crypto is not safe. This means that there is still a possibility to do something outside of our instincts, or there is still a possibility to be stopped by the running system. Likewise with the current stable coins that we consider safe with a value equivalent to Fiat. If the addition of the supply continues and suddenly they buy up most of the Bitcoin with the stable coins they are developing, then the price of Bitcoin will increase and the stable coins will drop because the amount of supply exceeds the needs of the exchange.

And what category of people do you think bitcoin is safe for? If you say bitcoin is safe for everyone, that's not quite right. Bitcoin can be dangerous for short-term investors because it is volatile. Many investors consider bitcoin a risky asset. A risky asset cannot be safe. So it's worth rephrasing your definition. Bitcoin is more reliable than other altcoins.
When talking about price fluctuations, of course all crypto assets are insecure, because they measure changes in value based on fiat values. When investors invest, of course they think about how far the project can survive.
Talking about crypto with various kinds of changes that occur in crypto, the SEC always handles, if there is a fundamental violation of the crypto, then the SEC sanctions apply. Can these sanctions apply to Bitcoin? Of course not.
Why do I say others are not safe, while Bitcoin is safe. Because it is clear who owns all other crypto, if it is not the owner who commits fraud, of course other parties will do something detrimental to the crypto project.

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January 06, 2023, 09:44:18 PM
 #58

the thing I see clearly is how binance has a stable coin that is BUSD. i think it would be great to divert our assets in BUSD as it is clear in its reserves with binance from any stable coin. I think that's enough of how we should trust it as a safe stable coin.
Though i don’t need to use Binance Stable Coin (BUSD) but i little bit trust it because of Binance exchange but now i don’t believe any stable coin especially centralized stable coins. Spreading a lot of FUD in BNB after collapsed FTT, So i think you also shouldn’t considering 100% safe in stable coins even BUSD.

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January 06, 2023, 10:25:02 PM
 #59

the thing I see clearly is how binance has a stable coin that is BUSD. i think it would be great to divert our assets in BUSD as it is clear in its reserves with binance from any stable coin. I think that's enough of how we should trust it as a safe stable coin.
Though i don’t need to use Binance Stable Coin (BUSD) but i little bit trust it because of Binance exchange but now i don’t believe any stable coin especially centralized stable coins. Spreading a lot of FUD in BNB after collapsed FTT, So i think you also shouldn’t considering 100% safe in stable coins even BUSD.

Not even binance can get my 100% trust since any of those stable coin has possibilities to collapsed so better be more careful on holding it and always follow some crypto medias or even became more active here to know the latest updates about those coins. If there's controversy happening for sure there's someone will keep us an update regarding on current situation.

R


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April 02, 2023, 05:35:14 PM
 #60

I would not be surprised if in the near future, the share of stablecoins in the crypto market will fall dramatically, and many banks that cooperate with these crypto projects will either close or stop servicing accounts that have cash collateral on them altogether. The era of CBDCs, the dreaded state-controlled tokens, is coming. These are even worse than stablecoins, and have absolutely nothing to do with real cryptocurrencies. States and banks will push this garbage into the crypto industry in every way they can.

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