Be The Judge...

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Something That Happened In My Area Few Days Ago...

It was just the next street after mine, was there having an evening gist with a friend of mine..

Here is how it all started.

someone I know (not a friend of mine, not an enemy either), on a Friday evening at around 6pm played a lottery, it's a local lottery that announces winners every 3 hours.
For example - -
The first round starts 9 am and ends  at 12 pm,
Second round starts 12 pm and ends at 3 pm
Third round starts 3 pm and ends at 6 pm
Forth round starts 6 pm and ends at 9 pm
This is how the game goes on every single day from Monday to Sunday, that is the entire 7 days of the week.

So this guy played the lottery at around 6pm on Friday in a local game shop, at 9:15 pm, he went out to check the result of the game, luckily, he won, approximately $198.
He took his ticket to the game attendant where he played the game, the game attendant confirmed his win but unfortunately was out of cash that night, he could pay the guy at that moment, he called his boss~that is the real owner of the game shop, they told the guy to come and collect his winnings on Monday, the following week at 10am in the morning, and the guy said no problem and left.

On Saturday morning, he came to the game shop and asked the attendant if he could play the lottery and the payment deducted from his winning which they owe him, by Monday morning, whatever balance remaining from his winning, he would collect it, the attendant after confirming from his boss said yes, so the guy start playing the lottery again and the money deducted from his winning as agreed.

Long story short... By Monday morning at the agreed time which is 10am, the guy went to the game shop to collect the money remaining from his winning, after the calculation, he was told he's the one owing the game shop an approximate of $5.
First, it was amusing to him cus he started laughing, he actually thought they were joking until things become really serious, he refused to agree that he has gambled away all his winnings, not to talk of owing the game shop, he was then asked to bring all the tickets of the games he played from Saturday through Sunday, but unfortunately, he already threw most of the tickets away.

A serious fight later broke out, as the guy went out, hired some thugs to beat and to forcefully collect money from the shop attendant, the owner of the game shop who i believe was called on phone, came with some thugs as well, and the result was brutal, unfortunately, I could not get the opportunity-Infact, it didn't even occur to me to take pictures or try to record anything as we all had to run for our lives at a stage.

After about 30 minutes of fierce fighting, with many injured and properties destroyed, police landed and the thugs began to run away, at the end, they arrested the owner of the game shop, his attendant, some of the thugs the shop owner brought and some of the thugs the other guy brought, unfortunately, he that caused/started the fight escaped, some said he escaped even before the police came when he saw that things had already gotten out of control.
As of yesterday, I was told they the police are still looking for him.


This is an example of how a little issue can end up turning communities up side down.

In this case who do you think is at fault, who make the mistake?
Is it the game shop that allowed the gambler play from an unsettled winning?
Or is it the gambler who gambled too much and refused to believe that he has gambled all his unsettled winning away?

Let's discuss and you be the judge.

[Welsh]

Are we working on facts here? If the gambler didn't gamble his winnings away, then he's entitled to the money owed. If he did gamble the money away, I would've thought it'd be up to the store to prove he's done that, and not ask him for the receipts. However, obviously the customer shouldn't hired the thugs as you put it.

So, ultimately everyone involved broke the law at one point on that night, and they all probably deserve the penalties for that. I don't think it's too much of a problem that the shop allowed deducting of the winnings, ultimately a lot of casinos allow you to do that. It's the upholding of rightful winnings, and then escalating the situation to violence that's not right here.

[dothebeats]

If I were the winner I would surely keep track of what I owe the gambling house and keep some proofs to cover my ass in the event that the gambling house refuses to pay me. What transpired on that day is probably fueled by emotions and not rationality, because if the latter is present then no violence and serious incident would have happened. Also, it is in the best interest of the gambling house to keep a record of everything that is going on in the platform that involves money. It will also save them the hassle and trouble if they can show a receipt of what a person owes, how much do they owe a certain person, and on which dates/hours does this person used his winnings to bet on.

Well, the damage has been done, and I think both parties deserved those jail time if ever they incurred any.

[bittraffic]

Did he really gambled his winning all away which he owes $5 instead?  This is what is to find out to finally how we could weigh the issue. He couldn't wait til Monday.

As for the gameshop also, why did he even allow the guy to use his winning? I'm also suspecting he is at fault that after 2 days the winner owes him instead.

[DaNNy001]

In this case who do you think is at fault, who make the mistake?
Is it the game shop that allowed the gambler play from an unsettled winning?
Or is it the gambler who gambled too much and refused to believe that he has gambled all his unsettled winning away?

Let's discuss and you be the judge.

Well personally I think i have experienced such scenerio before in my area and all this actually boils down to the person who won the lottery,  i think he is just an irresponsible gambler who lacks control over his gambling habit. The first mistake he did was to ask for the attendant to play more games for the money to be deducted the from his winning because the moment one gets lost in the act, you truly can't know how much you have used because at the time you will be confident that you still have money and may continue playing till you exhausted everything @#addiction.
But for the case of calling thugs and fighting , i think the punishment given to both parties was actually fair.

[electronicash]

does sound like it can happen in my local barangay where we always wait for the SWERTRES result. but sure we can always see people fight over $198 and the more it boils blood he learned he has to pay $5.

this is overblown that they brought their gangs to resolve a simple problem. when as a matter of fact the gameshop has records of how much was spent by the guy. even if he throw all his tickets, everything is the in the book.

[Piesel]

I good portion of the blame goes to the shop owner, because he should have settled the amount to be deducted from the players previously won ticket and even at that why didn't the shop attendant notify the gambler when he has exhausted his winning balance own to him.

Going on to place bets for the players on credit was not something that is advisable, and the player involving thugs was also against the law, so I guess there will all face a civil disorder penalty.

[Jating]

It's really hard to get the facts from fiction, perhaps the first question is how did he end up witht -$5 from winning $198? Do the shop has the copy of what he bet that time? They should so that it will have a proof. And why the owner allow him to do that in the first place? And why not pay him right away?

Not sure about bringing the thugs but it's possible that the person can do that, maybe he really has some influence in his place or the money to pay that thugs.

In any case, it was kind of messy, so the best thing that the owner can do is file charges to the guy.

[tabas]

It's unclear to me as how it went down to owing the owner with $5 if he didn't gambled with all of his winnings. Maybe the owner tried to cheat and that's why it ended up with that calculation. But if the owner has just enough cash, there will be no problem on it and the violence won't occur because the guy will just gamble and pay again no matter how many times he will bet again on that lottery shop. Well, both are at fault when they have resulted into violence wherein fact that they can just have a peaceful talk.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Are we working on facts here?

Well, it is a true life story, everything i said is a fact, it only pains me that i didnt remember taking pictures or recording anything, i believe this is because it didnt occur to me that i will have to share this incident on this forum.

If the gambler didn't gamble his winnings away, then he's entitled to the money owed. If he did gamble the money away, I would've thought it'd be up to the store to prove he's done that, and not ask him for the receipts.

He did gamble his winnings away, and the attendant tried to show the prove to him but out of anger, he abruptly refused to believe or even listen, that was when some people there ask him to bring all the tickets so they could calculate it, it turned out he already threw most of it away.

[Baofeng]

Hard to be the judge here, hehehe, but I will have to get all the facts straight first and see who is the guilty one, and how the bettor end up losing all his initial winnings and then owe the bestshop for at least $5?, that's crazy gambling addiction. He could have wait then or just used his own money first since he will be collecting his winnings then.

And what's scary is the thugs of both sides, Lol, it was really gang land fight fights and yeah, lots are doing to be damage around the area and another question is who is going to shoulder the expense of fixing the place, the betshop, the owner or the gambler.

[NeuroticFish]

Since the gambler didn't sign any paper (at the notary), the shop owner has not much of a proof that the gambler "borrowed" any of that money.
Truth being told, I've never understood why some shop owners agree to give people things on debt. It's a risk that can too easily turn against them. And this is a similar case.

So on the money side, I think that the shop owner has made a mistake he has to pay for.
Of course, on assault/body harm matter, both the gambler, the shop owner and both' thugs have the blame.

[cabron]

Are we working on facts here?

Well, it is a true life story, everything i said is a fact, it only pains me that i didnt remember taking pictures or recording anything, i believe this is because it didnt occur to me that i will have to share this incident on this forum.

If the gambler didn't gamble his winnings away, then he's entitled to the money owed. If he did gamble the money away, I would've thought it'd be up to the store to prove he's done that, and not ask him for the receipts.

He did gamble his winnings away, and the attendant tried to show the prove to him but out of anger, he abruptly refused to believe or even listen, that was when some people there ask him to bring all the tickets so they could calculate it, it turned out he already threw most of it away.

It already sounds like the guy had really spent it all for the tickets and just told his gang he threw all the tickets away. The attendant of the gameshop has it all recorded.

Why does he even have some thugs supporting him perhaps this did happen before. In my area, gameshop owner sometimes threatens winners because he knows the participants of this kind of game are the less fortunate guy in the community.

[Charles-Tim]

In this case who do you think is at fault, who make the mistake?
Is it the game shop that allowed the gambler play from an unsettled winning?
Or is it the gambler who gambled too much and refused to believe that he has gambled all his unsettled winning away?

Is it possible that someone that has won a bet would gamble and lost the whole money, gamble more and later owe the gambling site money? When the person has gambled with all his money and remain zero, the betting shop supposed to notify him that he has no money again. That fault is for the betting site.

A betting site that has no money again, he supposed to be able to credit the bank account of the person that won the money, but he did not. That fault is for the betting site too.

If someone gamble, he would have known when his money has finished if the betting shop do things appropriately, but they did it in a way the bettor did not know what he used the money for. That blame is also on the betting shop too.

[Finestream]

In my opinion, this guy should have gone to the police instead of the thugs if he was sure of his actions.

But to all appearances he is a gambling addict, because he could not wait to win and started asking for new lottery tickets to win and it is quite possible that he did not keep track of the lottery tickets. In general, the situation is quite controversial, but the fight does not solve anything and is likely to lead to a more difficult situation for everyone. 200 dollars is not such a large amount to start such a conflict over it.

Yes, he should have gone to the police first and let them handle it, and not the thugs that somehow also lead the chaos. But I believe, both parties have their own faults and instead of putting the case into more legal, they even chose to make it more worst seeing damages around. But maybe, the gambler alone knows that he’s a gambling addict and try to cheat the lottery owner. But things turn out not on his side so calling all his thugs maybe the first solution he could ever think.

[Distinctin]

Did he really gambled his winning all away which he owes $5 instead?  This is what is to find out to finally how we could weigh the issue. He couldn't wait til Monday.

As for the gameshop also, why did he even allow the guy to use his winning? I'm also suspecting he is at fault that after 2 days the winner owes him instead.

The scenario is not that clear, either the gambler really consumed all his winnings but he’s just denial about it, or the lottery shop owner maybe thinking that he can take advantage with the gambler’s winnings that’s why he never presented any proofs, and instead push the gambler to present all his receipts which I think is quite suspicious. But I know at the end of the day, the police should have given them both proper sanctions because of some damages done around the shop.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

In this case who do you think is at fault, who make the mistake?
Is it the game shop that allowed the gambler play from an unsettled winning?
Or is it the gambler who gambled too much and refused to believe that he has gambled all his unsettled winning away?

Is it possible that someone that has won a bet would gamble and lost the whole money, gamble more and later owe the gambling site money? When the person has gambled with all his money and remain zero, the betting shop supposed to notify him that he has no money again. That fault is for the betting site.

Sorry but a bit of correction, its not actually a betting site but a shop, that is a local betting shop in my locality/area,

A betting site that has no money again, he supposed to be able to credit the bank account of the person that won the money, but he did not. That fault is for the betting site too.

You are right if the betting shop was one that send winnings to customers bank account, but the case is quite different here, like i said, the betting shop is a local one, they pay all customers winnings in cash, from what i know about that betting shop, if a gambler wins an amount below $50, they pay the winner immediately, but if the gambler wins an amount that is above that, they you ask him or her to come back to collect the money since i think they do not keep large amount in the shop for security reasons.

If someone gamble, he would have known when his money has finished if the betting shop do things appropriately, but they did it in a way the bettor did not know what he used the money for. That blame is also on the betting shop too.

Well, you cant just put all the blame on the betting shop, some gamblers are very lousy on their own, very ignorant and careless, like i pointed out in my previous comment, the betting shop kept record of gamblers spending, but the gambler himself didn't keep any record, and when the betting shop showed him his record which shows he owes them, he refused to believe it was true.

[iv4n]

...

All this for $198 (minus the amount he spent)? After making a decision to take all this to another level by bringing friends (thugs) all of them should be arrested for that, money won/lost lose meaning, all of them will face higher penalties and probably jail time.

He could try to call the police or look for some lawyers, but to bring friends to a fight is something different, it should be a last resort... and consequences are almost always worse than the initial loss. Now all of them are in greater problem than the sum in question for sure...

Violence shouldn't be the answer, as I said, it's something like the last thing to do if you are really out of options... I think these guys involved now have a bigger problem just because they're "hotheads"! So the bottom line should be simple, in case you get into some problem try to keep it cool, think about your options, and look for advice before you take some serious actions.

[livingfree]

It's funny IMO to think that the shop owner has called thugs to fight against the thugs of the winner. I'm sure that he has to pay for those thugs that he has called yet he can't pay the winnings of the winner.

Just simple things to think of.

I guess the owner doesn't really have the intention to pay the guy so he just made it a "quits" by reciprocating what the winner has acted upon. Well, so both of them took the inconvenience and bothered by what has happened.

[bittraffic]

In this case who do you think is at fault, who make the mistake?
Is it the game shop that allowed the gambler play from an unsettled winning?
Or is it the gambler who gambled too much and refused to believe that he has gambled all his unsettled winning away?

Is it possible that someone that has won a bet would gamble and lost the whole money, gamble more and later owe the gambling site money? When the person has gambled with all his money and remain zero, the betting shop supposed to notify him that he has no money again. That fault is for the betting site.

Sorry but a bit of correction, its not actually a betting site but a shop, that is a local betting shop in my locality/area,

A betting site that has no money again, he supposed to be able to credit the bank account of the person that won the money, but he did not. That fault is for the betting site too.

You are right if the betting shop was one that send winnings to customers bank account, but the case is quite different here, like i said, the betting shop is a local one, they pay all customers winnings in cash, from what i know about that betting shop, if a gambler wins an amount below $50, they pay the winner immediately, but if the gambler wins an amount that is above that, they you ask him or her to come back to collect the money since i think they do not keep large amount in the shop for security reasons.

If someone gamble, he would have known when his money has finished if the betting shop do things appropriately, but they did it in a way the bettor did not know what he used the money for. That blame is also on the betting shop too.

Well, you cant just put all the blame on the betting shop, some gamblers are very lousy on their own, very ignorant and careless, like i pointed out in my previous comment, the betting shop kept record of gamblers spending, but the gambler himself didn't keep any record, and when the betting shop showed him his record which shows he owes them, he refused to believe it was true.

The gambler is not new to this. He is aware of how much he spent betting on this game. It only needs less than $1 to be part of the game afaik and if he spent a lot I guess he really wanted to secure winning which in the end he instead loses.

How does this game is played by the way that he has been playing the whole day waiting every after 3 hours? This game will really waste your day and you'd get mad even if you'll win.