Vexl - New private Bitcoin marketplace by Satoshilabs?

[Hispo]

I hope you all are having a good evening.  I have decided to share this over here because I searched about this apparent new service on the forum and I did not find anything.


I was checking the Trezor hardware wallet webpage today (since there was a new update available for their software), I decided to explore the web and I realized Satoshilabs listed a new project I had never heard about before.

It seems the creators of the Trezor hardware wallets are currently working on a non-KYC, private and possibly open-source marketplace where people would be allowed to exchange their Bitcoin for FIAT (electronic and cash).

The name of the service seems to be Vexl and it is focused on privacy and discretion. If you feel like checking it out, feel free to visit Trezor's official webpage and move onto the "company" section. I prefer to reserve the right to share any links due to the nature of this application and concerns on people's privacy around here.

What do you think about this initiative by Satoshilabs?
If their app manages to accumulate a decent volume, would regulators get involved?
Would you use it or give it a try?
Do you feel any enthusiasm at all for private Bitcoin marketplaces?

I personally feel curious about it, but I'll let Satoshilabs to properly work on it more and let the volume grow before downloading it.
 

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[Mbitr]

 Nice find Op 
Can’t really comment to much - as the “App is not available in my country or region” - I’m euro zone.
Anyone been able to download it anywhere ? Hopefully they can comment 

Their Privacy and Security seems amateurish at the moment, in its wording and responsibilities ?
But I’ll wait for further comments from folks who can download 

https://vexl.it/faq/privacy-and-security

[NeuroticFish]

“App is not available in my country or region” - I’m euro zone.

Same here. And I also agree on the amateurish approach on both website and their twitter. I mean, what's their aim if they tweet only in Czech? No offense, but that means that they don't aim global.
I've found this:

Na Vexlu neprovádíme KYC a je nám opravdu jedno, jestli jste Čech, Slovák, Polák, Maďar, člověk, pes, kočka, pták, ryba nebo žížala. Každý je u nás vítán!

...and it may mean that they only allow Czech, Slovak, Polish and Hungarian. But I may be wrong.


If geographic location is blocked, then I'm not convinced these guys are building their DEX/marketplace on the right pillars (what stop them record the IPs, for example?)
Their use of Cloudflare may also be an issue for some potential users.

[Hispo]

“App is not available in my country or region” - I’m euro zone.

Same here. And I also agree on the amateurish approach on both website and their twitter. I mean, what's their aim if they tweet only in Czech? No offense, but that means that they don't aim global.
I've found this:

Na Vexlu neprovádíme KYC a je nám opravdu jedno, jestli jste Čech, Slovák, Polák, Maďar, člověk, pes, kočka, pták, ryba nebo žížala. Každý je u nás vítán!

...and it may mean that they only allow Czech, Slovak, Polish and Hungarian. But I may be wrong.


If geographic location is blocked, then I'm not convinced these guys are building their DEX/marketplace on the right pillars (what stop them record the IPs, for example?)
Their use of Cloudflare may also be an issue for some potential users.

Not available here either.
I would give them the benefit of the doubt for now, they probably are still polishing some details.
The application only have 1000 downloads with the last upgrade on December 20th.

I am not sure why Satoshilabs preferred to publish this app on the Play Store and IStore instead distributing the APK themselves, my only guess for now is to protect their future users from app personification (we all know how lax the filters on the Play Store are), but at the obvious cost of privacy. It is not a good beginning, I admit.

Eager to see if they release it next year for more countries. If they remain on those stores I am sure the IRS, FBI and CIA will ask Google for the complete list of Android users who downloaded it, basically a honeypot.

[RickDeckard]

Nice find OP! Hadn't heard about this service before even though I try my best to keep up with recent developments within this sphere. They also have their code on GitHub[1] so that's also a plus! The few references to this company / service that I was able to find was this job post from Satoshilabs[2] (if we assume it's the same post that their LinkedIn[3] page did, it was posted 2 months ago) and this[4] post from ~ 3 months ago at r/Cryptocurrency. Do note that the Twitter alias first registered on the platform in 2011 and the first tweet - I may be wrong on this one - was done on 10th of September by replying to this one[5] from Pavol Lupták.

Na Vexlu neprovádíme KYC a je nám opravdu jedno, jestli jste Čech, Slovák, Polák, Maďar, člověk, pes, kočka, pták, ryba nebo žížala. Každý je u nás vítán!

...and it may mean that they only allow Czech, Slovak, Polish and Hungarian. But I may be wrong.
(...)

I think you are somewhat right NeuroticFish (at least for now). If we check the Twitter profile of the CEO of SatoshiLabs (@slushcz) we are able to find this tweet[6] from 10th of September regarding Vixl country restrictions:

Currently only Czech and Slovak numbers are allowed, as Vexl is in public beta and we are testing it in our countries first.

My guess is that they are starting in a low profile and see how the service behaves in a limited audience while at the same time gathering data/feedback about the service. According to their FAQ[7] they currently do not add a fee to the transactions made in the app (probably will be implemented in the future) to cater users to use even more the service thus increasing their database (within the selected countries).
Oddly their donation page[8] appears to not be working as of now, perhaps this means that they have a good funding from Satoshilabs?
[1]https://github.com/vexl-it/vexl
[2]https://satoshilabs.com/job/416040-react-native-developer.html
[3]https://www.linkedin.com/company/vexl-it
[4]https://libreddit.spike.codes/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/xt11wp/satoshilabs_just_released_a_new_app_to_trade/
[5]https://nitter.net/wilderko/status/1568583861713387521#m
[6]https://nitter.net/slushcz/status/1568617430020247557#m
[7]https://vexl.it/faq/others
[8]https://pay.satoshilabs.com/apps/2jSjLWx4uVsXcGZNRUSiv9tpzh7X/pos

[dkbit98]

I was checking the Trezor hardware wallet webpage today (since there was a new update available for their software), I decided to explore the web and I realized Satoshilabs listed a new project I had never heard about before.

I can't anything about this in Trezor Suite software, but I like the concept of no-kyc and look of Vexl app.
It looks like they are currently oriented mostly towards Czech republic because their twitter account is written fully in Czech langauge.
I don't like vexl is asking for phone number for registration, but maybe temporary numbers could be used or newest anonymous numbers released by telegram.
One cool thing about Vexl - they are open source software:
https://github.com/vexl-it/vexl

[jackg]

Can anyone else see a crypto based app called vexel in their app store? This feels like it could've been a confusing name choice. There are reviews for it dating back to August too unless they're part of satoshi labs or not a competitor.

Given its description as a social network, I could imagine it either feeling very centralised and controlled or being prone to scam (without the software doing a lot of hand holding).

I don't think they expected many people to find their app either (based on how hard it is to find) so there's a good chance it'll be a long way down the line. I thought most hardware wallets already had some forn of immediate exchange too but I could be wrong on that one (I've normally used cexes or p2p for the lower fees).

[davis196]

The term "marketplace" is kinda misleading here. I thought that this is going to be a marketplace, where goods and services can be bought and sold for BTC, something like Openbazaar(which failed years ago). I guess that this is going to be just another decentralized exchange.
Selling BTC for electronic fiat seems very risky, because electronic fiat transactions can be reversed. I wonder what kind of security measures will be taken in order to protect the users from scams.
Let's see if Vexl can offer something more than the other big p2p crypto platforms.

[Blawpaw]

I hope you all are having a good evening.  I have decided to share this over here because I searched about this apparent new service on the forum and I did not find anything.


I was checking the Trezor hardware wallet webpage today (since there was a new update available for their software), I decided to explore the web and I realized Satoshilabs listed a new project I had never heard about before.

It seems the creators of the Trezor hardware wallets are currently working on a non-KYC, private and possibly open-source marketplace where people would be allowed to exchange their Bitcoin for FIAT (electronic and cash).

The name of the service seems to be Vexl and it is focused on privacy and discretion. If you feel like checking it out, feel free to visit Trezor's official webpage and move onto the "company" section. I prefer to reserve the right to share any links due to the nature of this application and concerns on people's privacy around here.

What do you think about this initiative by Satoshilabs?
If their app manages to accumulate a decent volume, would regulators get involved?
Would you use it or give it a try?
Do you feel any enthusiasm at all for private Bitcoin marketplaces?

I personally feel curious about it, but I'll let Satoshilabs to properly work on it more and let the volume grow before downloading it.
 

This doesnt look like a desentralized marketplace to me. It looks like much more to something like localbitcoins but in a decentralized version without the hassles of KYC imposition. It looks like the innovation here is that they operate out of a Bitcoin mixer which allows a certain degree of privacy for buyers. It leaves us to know if they will allow swaps between users.

[Mbitr]

As many members have said, it’s probably still in the development stage and there’s a lot of finer details to work out.

What worries me personally is this point …..

Quote -
“ How can I contact Vexl support if one of my trades has gone wrong?

The only way how to mitigate a malicious actor is to disconnect them from your social network forever - you can block them in the chat. They will never be able to contact you, your contacts and contact of their contacts ever again.

You can contact us via support@vexl.it, nevertheless, there is no way for us to help you with your trade - we can't even say if the trade happened or not.”

Thoughts ?

[NeuroticFish]

nevertheless, there is no way for us to help you with your trade - we can't even say if the trade happened or not.”

Thoughts ?

This sounds interesting privacy wise, of course. But it also depends on how the process is done in order to avoid one user scamming another and I thought that an automated escrow will know if a transaction took place or the platform will be able to come in and help in case of issues. I think that this "we don't know" approach is pretty much asking for troubles...

[maikrothaman]

As many members have said, it’s probably still in the development stage and there’s a lot of finer details to work out.

What worries me personally is this point …..

Quote -
“ How can I contact Vexl support if one of my trades has gone wrong?

The only way how to mitigate a malicious actor is to disconnect them from your social network forever - you can block them in the chat. They will never be able to contact you, your contacts and contact of their contacts ever again.

You can contact us via support@vexl.it, nevertheless, there is no way for us to help you with your trade - we can't even say if the trade happened or not.”

Thoughts ?

Vexl website appears to be similar to Craigslist. It appears it only allows users to publish advertisements. Cash payments and face-to-face transactions might be successful, but online payments are likely to be rife with fraud. I keep a close eye on the Pandora Cash project, a new privacy-focused initiative. Recently, I discovered a peer to peer marketplace that is decentralized and private by default. I believe moderators are there to help defend you against bad actors. All payments are made anonymously by using Pandora Cash for every transaction. This marketplace is called LibertyTown. I think you can even use BTC to get in and get out. I believe that is what BTC needs. A quick and secure method for conducting offline transactions.

[DaveF]

I'm not getting region blocked but not available on my device weird but not going to worry about it for now.
Until more information comes out about it, I'll let others dive in. The idea looks like it might have some potential, but I have been burned by Satoshilabs things before so I'll let other beta test it.

The more markets the better so long as they don't suck or disappear in the middle of the night.

-Dave

[m2017]

Any positive undertaking and action, like the creation of the new bitcoin marketplace, deserves praise. Not necessarily the Satoshilabs will succeed in this area, but the main thing is they are trying to develop the area of cryptocurrencies in this way. Without trying to create something new, we wouldn't see bitcoin these days. So, my attitude to this is only positive.

Your question about the actions of the regulator is very relevant. I also have fears that when the trading platform grows and gains prominence, regulators will definitely come to them. As is usually the case in such cases, this marketplace will undergo changes and the privacy of their users will be lost. I would not want it to happen that way, but in this regard, I have negative forecasts.

I think I would try this marketplace when it's ready. It's still too early to talk about it. We'll see.

[Hispo]

nevertheless, there is no way for us to help you with your trade - we can't even say if the trade happened or not.”

Thoughts ?

I think that this "we don't know" approach is pretty much asking for troubles...

I agree.
I would have expected Satoshilabs to have some kind of escrow system, like that implemented on Bisq. Having a platform like this one without some way for people to counter scam attempts is to ask scammers to come around.

Perhaps, Satoshilabs wants this app to be based on the sole reputation of the merchants on-app (something similar to what we have here on Bitcointalk with the feedback system) probably that is why the app requires phone number?, however that means some people will get inevitably scammed.

Also, besides phone number the app needs other kind of verification layer to prevent SIM-swap attacks.