Privacy wallets

[simpleSliv3r]

Hello everyone,

I am writing this looking for information about privacy in wallets.

It is known that the major closed source wallets use their own servers to provide information about the balance of addresses or to make new transactions.
I would like to know if some open source wallets like Electrum have their own servers to do that job or if they work with the public nodes of the bitcoin network.
I'm also interested to know if there are any hardware wallets that do that. If not, I would like to know if there is a way to check the balance of an address using the btc network and not a blockchain explorer, for example with some node calls running btc core.

Thank you all for taking the time to read!!!

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[hosseinimr93]

In electrum, you connect to the servers provided by other people and it allows you to choose the server manually.
If you want to protect your privacy, you should download the full blockchain and run your own server and use TOR.

If not, I would like to know if there is a way to check the balance of an address using the btc network and not a blockchain explorer, for example with some node calls running btc core.

You can create a watch-only wallet in electrum just using your address.

[nc50lc]

If not, I would like to know if there is a way to check the balance of an address using the btc network and not a blockchain explorer, for example with some node calls running btc core.

Is the "some node" your node or other's node?
Because if the latter, it's no different than checking using a blockexplorer since you'll still have to trust the owner of that node.
If privacy is the concern, you'll have to setup your own node and use it as the server if you'll not use Bitcoin Core's wallet.

[Charles-Tim]

If not, I would like to know if there is a way to check the balance of an address using the btc network and not a blockchain explorer, for example with some node calls running btc core.

You can create a watch-only wallet in electrum just using your address.

If you want anonymity while using blockchain explorer, you can use Tor browser to check the address or addresses that you want which is better than using Electrum that connects using IP address, or enable Tor on Electrum for it.

For privacy, you have to run your own node, for not to depend on central server.

[maikrothaman]

If not, I would like to know if there is a way to check the balance of an address using the btc network and not a blockchain explorer, for example with some node calls running btc core.

You can create a watch-only wallet in electrum just using your address.

If you want anonymity while using blockchain explorer, you can use Tor browser to check the address or addresses that you want which is better than using Electrum that connects using IP address, or enable Tor on Electrum for it.

For privacy, you have to run your own node, for not to depend on central server.

Just keep in mind that whenever you use a central server, your IP may be stored. Another option is to stick with private coins like Monero or Pandora Cash that come with default anonymity. By doing so, whenever you use the blockchain, you always have plausible denial.

[Charles-Tim]

Just keep in mind that whenever you use a central server, your IP may be stored. Another option is to stick with private coins like Monero or Pandora Cash that come with default anonymity. By doing so, whenever you use the blockchain, you always have plausible denial.

Someone wants to check if a bitcoin address or some addresses are funded or not by using other means other than blockchain explorer, what would this has to do with Pandoracash (Pcash) which I was unable to see on Coinmarketcap, not to talk if seeing its marketcap. While I saw it on Coingecko, it is one of the coin that needs not to be gone for:

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/pandora-cash#:~:text=Pandora%20Cash%20price%20today%20is,in%20the%20last%2024%20hours.
No known marketcap
24 hours trading volume of $1,152. Significantly low and be considered as shit coin.

The only privacy coin recommended on this forum is monero. While I can not think of using monero, I can only use it for bitcoin mixing only.

[Charles-Tim]

It depends on which wallet software do you use to manage your hardware wallet. For example, Ledger have option connect to your own Bitcoin full node.

How about Trezor Suite

Connect to full node on Trezor Suite using Electrum server

[dkbit98]

I would like to know if some open source wallets like Electrum have their own servers to do that job or if they work with the public nodes of the bitcoin network.
I'm also interested to know if there are any hardware wallets that do that. If not, I would like to know if there is a way to check the balance of an address using the btc network and not a blockchain explorer, for example with some node calls running btc core.

Very good alternative for Electrum is called Sparrow Wallet.
This is open source wallet that respects your privacy and it can be connected easily with your own Bitcoin node.
There is detailed built-in transaction viewer, wallet has great support for hardware wallets and there is  coinjoin mixing with Whirlpool.
One more way you can check balance of your address is to use open source mempool.space with your own Bitcoin node.
https://sparrowwallet.com/

[simpleSliv3r]

If not, I would like to know if there is a way to check the balance of an address using the btc network and not a blockchain explorer, for example with some node calls running btc core.

Bitcoin Core doesn't have address index, however you can connect your hardware wallet to Bitcoin Core.

Thanks for your reply.

Does this mean that you cannot check the balance of an address with Bitcoin Core and that the utility of connecting the hardware wallet to Bitcoin Core is to use that node to issue new transactions?

[m2017]

I would like to know if some open source wallets like Electrum have their own servers to do that job or if they work with the public nodes of the bitcoin network.
I'm also interested to know if there are any hardware wallets that do that. If not, I would like to know if there is a way to check the balance of an address using the btc network and not a blockchain explorer, for example with some node calls running btc core.

Very good alternative for Electrum is called Sparrow Wallet.
This is open source wallet that respects your privacy and it can be connected easily with your own Bitcoin node.
There is detailed built-in transaction viewer, wallet has great support for hardware wallets and there is  coinjoin mixing with Whirlpool.
One more way you can check balance of your address is to use open source mempool.space with your own Bitcoin node.
https://sparrowwallet.com/

Electrum has existed for a long time and is known to everyone, so many people use it. Personally, this is the first time I hear about Sparrow Wallet and I must admit, after watching the video on their website, I was intrigued and visually liked this wallet. Including the opportunities it provides. Will have to try to use it. I don't remember the topic on the forum dedicated to Sparrow Wallet. Is there a topic with a detailed overview? And what do you write about coinjoin mixing with Whirlpool? Does this wallet have a built in mixer or how it works?

[Edwardard]

Does this mean that you cannot check the balance of an address with Bitcoin Core

Someone has written a program in Python3 that allows you to search for any address on bitcoin core whether it belongs to your wallet or not. (I've not tested it personally so try on your own risk)

Here is the github link:

https://github.com/ORP967/Bitcoin_Core_RPC_par_address

Its a bit old but let me know if it still works.

Is there a topic with a detailed overview?

Sparrow wallet is amongst the top bitcoin wallets supporting taproot addresses.
I dont find an official ANN thread on it but dkbit himself opened an unofficial thread if you search for it.
Here you go: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5274675

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

In electrum, you connect to the servers provided by other people and it allows you to choose the server manually.
If you want to protect your privacy, you should download the full blockchain and run your own server and use TOR.

How it's different to run Electrum with TOR connection?
Network >> Proxy >> Use tor proxy at port 9150, Use proxy , SOCKS5 127.0.0.1 9150

[ABCbits]

Does this mean that you cannot check the balance of an address with Bitcoin Core and that the utility of connecting the hardware wallet to Bitcoin Core is to use that node to issue new transactions?

What i mean you cannot check blance of any balance quickly due to lack of index. But you still can do that by creating wallet which contain specific Bitcoin address or master public key. If you add one which already has past transaction, Bitcoin Core will need to rescan blockchain which could take some time.

In electrum, you connect to the servers provided by other people and it allows you to choose the server manually.
If you want to protect your privacy, you should download the full blockchain and run your own server and use TOR.

How it's different to run Electrum with TOR connection?
Network >> Proxy >> Use tor proxy at port 9150, Use proxy , SOCKS5 127.0.0.1 9150

Electrum server can know list of addresses belong to same person/group.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Electrum server can know list of addresses belong to same person/group.

Based on the IP of the broadcasted transaction or anything else like from the input address they can find the master public key and know all address of the HD wallet?

[hosseinimr93]

Based on the IP of the broadcasted transaction or anything else like from the input address they can find the master public key and know all address of the HD wallet?

With using TOR connection, there is no way for the owner of the server to know your IP address at all. But they can know that the generated addresses belongs to the same person.
They can't know your master public key, because the addresses are derived from the master public key locally.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

But they can know that the generated addresses belongs to the same person.

My question which perimeters will tell them the addresses belongs to the same person, if it's not the IP history or master public key? In a HD wallet I can not even tell two addresses are from the same wallet if the address formats are same.

[hosseinimr93]

My question which perimeters will tell them the addresses belongs to the same person, if it's not the IP history or master public key? In a HD wallet I can not even tell two addresses are from the same wallet if the address formats are same.

Let's say you have created an HD wallet and have generated 20 addresses.
For getting the transaction history of these 20 addresses, electrum sends them to the server and the owner of the server will know that these 20 addresses belong to the same person.
If you want to protect your privacy without using your own server, you can create a separate wallet for each of addresses, connect to different servers and use a new TOR circuit for opening each of wallets.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

My question which perimeters will tell them the addresses belongs to the same person, if it's not the IP history or master public key? In a HD wallet I can not even tell two addresses are from the same wallet if the address formats are same.

Let's say you have created an HD wallet and have generated 20 addresses.
For getting the transaction history of these 20 addresses, electrum sends them to the server and the owner of the server will know that these 20 addresses belong to the same person.

Sorry I am old school and trying to understand part by part.
I have 20 addresses in my HD wallet.
5 addresses have balance with 5 incoming transactions.
2 addresses had balance but now empty because they were spent by 2 outgoing transactions.
5 and 2 means 7 addresses have transaction history but 13 addresses do not have any transaction history.

Owner of the server will know about 7 addresses, they will not know anything about the 13 addresses.
They will know these 7 addresses because all these 7 transactions will send a single at the same time to the server I guess. But if I extract the private keys of all 7 addresses and individually load one by one address then server will not have any knowledge that all 7 addresses were a part of the same HD wallet.

Please correct me where and which part I got wrong and where I got it correct.

[o_e_l_e_o]

For example, Ledger have option connect to your own Bitcoin full node.

An even better option would be to use your Ledger hardware wallet with Electrum, with Electrum pointed at your own Electrum server connected to your own node, thereby bypassing Ledger's software (which could still phone home even when pointed at your own node) altogether.

For getting the transaction history of these 20 addresses, electrum sends them to the server and the owner of the server will know that these 20 addresses belong to the same person.

Additionally to this, if you then open another wallet file, and the same Electrum server sees the same Tor exit node query a second set of addresses just a few minutes after querying the first set, then it is reasonable to conclude that both sets have a common owner.

Owner of the server will know about 7 addresses, they will not know anything about the 13 addresses.

That's not correct. The server owner will know about all 20 addresses. The only reason your Electrum client knows that the 13 empty addresses are empty is because it sends those 13 empty addresses to the server so the server can check if they have transaction history.

But if I extract the private keys of all 7 addresses and individually load one by one address then server will not have any knowledge that all 7 addresses were a part of the same HD wallet.

This would require you to connect to a different Electrum server via a different Tor circuit in between querying each and every address. Simply loading each address in a new wallet one by one, while connected to the same servers from the same IP, would result in the same situation I have described above, and the server being able to conclude that all addresses have a common owner.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

But if I extract the private keys of all 7 addresses and individually load one by one address then server will not have any knowledge that all 7 addresses were a part of the same HD wallet.

This would require you to connect to a different Electrum server via a different Tor circuit in between querying each and every address. Simply loading each address in a new wallet one by one, while connected to the same servers from the same IP, would result in the same situation I have described above, and the server being able to conclude that all addresses have a common owner.

That's what I was asking. The IP or the same tor circuit. When loading it at the same time or even in different time then the server may know based on the IP log or the circuit information.

Owner of the server will know about 7 addresses, they will not know anything about the 13 addresses.

That's not correct. The server owner will know about all 20 addresses. The only reason your Electrum client knows that the 13 empty addresses are empty is because it sends those 13 empty addresses to the server so the server can check if they have transaction history.

It brings me the next question.
What about I create an offline wallet. The all online nodes in other words the blockchain does not have my wallet information. I understand when I will send any BTC to any address of the offline wallet, I can not see them on my wallet since it isn't sync. On the blockchain I can see obviously. How the online existed blockchain already figured out the wallet address belongs to an offline wallet that is already created?