⚽ EURO 2024 TOURNAMENT - Discussion Thread

[Igebotz]

There have not been many consistently outstanding performances in any of the top leagues this season therefore it seems a waste trying to find the best players to make a shortlist from. Having said that, Vinícius Jnr did have an excellent season with Real Madrid but how would it equate to any awards ceremony?

There is no COVID 19 spread  , so there is no excuse to cancel this year's award, and someone undeserving from Real Madrid will undoubtedly receive it. Both Vini and Bellingham were brilliant (though neither deserved the award), but someone have to win, and Bellingham's performance above expectations in his debut season under such pressure will not be overlooked. I feel sorry for Rodri; he's been fantastic for both club and country.

Why haven't you updated the EPL thread - there's a lot of shit and transfer going that needs to be discussed.

[tokeweed]

Man I felt like I was close to winning jeremypwr's contest for Euro 2024 if not for the second goal.  But yeah, I think the first half was decent for both teams.  The second half seemed to me like Spain was a tad more dominant, tho England had their moments.

Did anybody watch Copa America final between Argentina and Colombia?  That one was a good match up too.  Didn't think Colombia had the players to make it a close match...

[virasog]

Did anybody watch Copa America final between Argentina and Colombia?  That one was a good match up too.  Didn't think Colombia had the players to make it a close match...

Yeah, that Copa America final was a treat to watch and Colombia really showed strength against the Strong Argentina side led by Messi.
And before that match we had a bit of drama and mismanagement by the Colombia crowd.

By the way, it was a Super Sunday where we had two big finals and also the Wimbledon Men's single final  
I won both my bets for Euro and Copa America

[Adiljutt156]

I congratulate Spain for having the best performance at this tournament and at the end they picked the trophy. However, I didn't expect England to give such a fight as they have struggled through to the final. It was a final worthy to watch with the come back goal from Cole Palmer giving England some hope to relish in the match but it took the goal from Oyarzabal at 86 minutes to stop England. Congrats to Spanish team for always coming to the party.

Yes. Spain team played very well and match was thrilling and high voltage match . We expected that kind of performance from Spain team , not only Spain team but also England team played very well and saw saw best competition of the tournament. That match is memorable and I expected we will watch the final match of Argentina and Spain but Argentina Football team lose the  semi final match and they could not qualify for final match. Now ,we are impressed by tge performance of England team because that was the best performance of England team ever and they will not play like that in future and luck was also with them but they lose the final match due to some limitations. But they should work hard and they should win next  UEFA EURO Cup.

[virasog]

Now ,we are impressed by tge performance of England team because that was the best performance of England team ever and they will not play like that in future and luck was also with them but they lose the final match due to some limitations. But they should work hard and they should win next  UEFA EURO Cup.

Talking about the luck for the England team, I heard a few articles that they were not given proper extra time as the referee ended the match right after the 4 minutes of extra time and did not give one or two extra minutes for the stoppages.
England fans are saying this as a cheating or some believe it was unlucky for England.

Referee Francois Letexier allowed Spanish players and coaches to milk precious seconds off the clock towards the end of the game, blowing the final whistle at exactly 90+4 minutes, despite injuries and substitutions wasting what seemed like minutes.

However, I believe that even with a little more time, England would still not have got the equalizer.

England fans furious at refereeing decision in Euro 2024 final

[boltz]

Did anybody watch Copa America final between Argentina and Colombia?  That one was a good match up too.  Didn't think Colombia had the players to make it a close match...

Yeah, that Copa America final was a treat to watch and Colombia really showed strength against the Strong Argentina side led by Messi.
And before that match we had a bit of drama and mismanagement by the Colombia crowd.

By the way, it was a Super Sunday where we had two big finals and also the Wimbledon Men's single final  
I won both my bets for Euro and Copa America

I laughed so hard watching the fans climbing into ventilation systems and actually enter the pitch to see the game. I was also impressed that they only took 1 hour extra to start the game which tells us that the organizer knew exactly how to get those fans without a ticket quickly out of the stadium ( even if a lot of them were still actually inside when the game started ).

[JollyGood]

There have not been many consistently outstanding performances in any of the top leagues this season therefore it seems a waste trying to find the best players to make a shortlist from. Having said that, Vinícius Jnr did have an excellent season with Real Madrid but how would it equate to any awards ceremony?

There is no COVID 19 spread  , so there is no excuse to cancel this year's award, and someone undeserving from Real Madrid will undoubtedly receive it. Both Vini and Bellingham were brilliant (though neither deserved the award), but someone have to win, and Bellingham's performance above expectations in his debut season under such pressure will not be overlooked. I feel sorry for Rodri; he's been fantastic for both club and country.

Throughout the year Bellingham did well, so did Vinícius Jnr and Rodri and several others but I am not sure they would be considered for the top accolade if other players had stepped up their game.

To some degree it is sad that just a few players come to mind when thinking of possible names on the shortlist. Maybe that is how far the standards expected have fallen when usually there would be a bunch of names to select from. As Real Madrid were the winners of the Champions League and La Liga, it does seem to be heading to one of their players.

Why haven't you updated the EPL thread - there's a lot of shit and transfer going that needs to be discussed.

Time constraints. There has been Premier League activity therefore I will turn my attention there  

[Igebotz]

Throughout the year Bellingham did well, so did Vinícius Jnr and Rodri and several others but I am not sure they would be considered for the top accolade if other players had stepped up their game.

In terms of individual numbers (G/A), Foden, Kane, Mbappe, and Palmer had a better season than Bellingham and Vini, but none of them won anything in Europe, nor did any of them do anything spectacular in the just concluded Euros. It doesn't make sense that both Vini and Bellingham will likely win the Ballon d'Or before Mbappe. This is what happens when you overthink a decision for too long; it nearly ruined his career at PSG.

To some degree it is sad that just a few players come to mind when thinking of possible names on the shortlist. Maybe that is how far the standards expected have fallen when usually there would be a bunch of names to select from.

Messi and Ronaldo set the bar and Numbers so high that everyone else looks average.

Time constraints. There has been Premier League activity therefore I will turn my attention there 

Yes we're done with this phase, nothing left to discuss.

[JollyGood]

Well, Real Madrid did win the Champions League and both Bellingham and Vinícius Jnr were part of that team. I suppose they could have the edge over others when considering who will win the Ballon d'Or. On a side note, it the last game Kroos was going to play for Real Madrid before retiring therefore winning the Champions League was a great way to say goodbye to the fans. Even Mbappe did not do anything spectacular this season that made him an obvious candidate to win the Ballon d'Or and to be fair, nor did any other player.

Congratulations to Spain on winning the Euro 24 tournament.

I will allow around 48 hours before locking this thread therefore if anybody wants to share anything about the tournament they still have time.

In terms of individual numbers (G/A), Foden, Kane, Mbappe, and Palmer had a better season than Bellingham and Vini, but none of them won anything in Europe, nor did any of them do anything spectacular in the just concluded Euros. It doesn't make sense that both Vini and Bellingham will likely win the Ballon d'Or before Mbappe. This is what happens when you overthink a decision for too long; it nearly ruined his career at PSG.

[Igebotz]

Well, Real Madrid did win the Champions League and both Bellingham and Vinícius Jnr were part of that team. I suppose they could have the edge over others when considering who will win the Ballon d'Or. On a side note, it the last game Kroos was going to play for Real Madrid before retiring therefore winning the Champions League was a great way to say goodbye to the fans. Even Mbappe did not do anything spectacular this season that made him an obvious candidate to win the Ballon d'Or and to be fair, nor did any other player.

Is winning the champions League now the only criteria for winning the ballon D'or ? There were times Messi and Ronaldo won it without winning the champions League, what changed? . BTW why is no one talking about Lautaro Martínez? He literally had the best season of his life and the best in Europe by far for both club and country. ( Copa América champion Top scorer of the Copa América , Game winner in the final, Serie A winner , Top scorer Serie A , Serie A MVP, Italian Super Cup winner, Game winner in Italian Super Cup) football is now about the best PR sadly.

[CLS63]

Even Mbappe did not do anything spectacular this season that made him an obvious candidate to win the Ballon d'Or and to be fair, nor did any other player.

Indeed. Mbappe had a horrible Euro. He couldn't make any proper contribution and he also made a statement about it accepting how bad he was. This was unexpected for many people undoubtedly. Maybe Deschamps' system was also a reason for him to play this bad. Because the team played boringly as a whole actually. They didn't concede so many goals but couldn't score very comfortably at the same time.

My bet on England to win the tournament lost unfortunately but they still did their best despite Southgate. Now he has resigned so I wonder who their next manager is going to be. 

[JollyGood]

Is winning the champions League now the only criteria for winning the ballon D'or ? There were times Messi and Ronaldo won it without winning the champions League, what changed? . BTW why is no one talking about Lautaro Martínez? He literally had the best season of his life and the best in Europe by far for both club and country. ( Copa América champion Top scorer of the Copa América , Game winner in the final, Serie A winner , Top scorer Serie A , Serie A MVP, Italian Super Cup winner, Game winner in Italian Super Cup) football is now about the best PR sadly.

No, there are many criteria but in the end there is usually a pattern that ensues in the voting system every year. Not only did Ronaldo and Messi win it without winning the Champions League, there were times when Messi won when clearly he should not have won. As for Ronaldo, I think he won it on merit the five times he was awarded. I can think of at least two occasions from those eight when Messi should not have been awarded it (maybe more if I analyse the statistics more).

If there was a player that was involved in winning the domestic league, the Champions League and then say for example the world cup or Euro tournament then it would be possible to count them within the small group of possible winners but even then it guarantees nothing.

Indeed. Mbappe had a horrible Euro. He couldn't make any proper contribution and he also made a statement about it accepting how bad he was. This was unexpected for many people undoubtedly. Maybe Deschamps' system was also a reason for him to play this bad. Because the team played boringly as a whole actually. They didn't concede so many goals but couldn't score very comfortably at the same time.

I cannot be sure but part of the problem could be that Mbappe had one eye on his dream move to Real Madrid after all the issues he was facing at PSG. He would have moved earlier if the owners had allowed him to go when he wanted but he was forced to stay and basically see out the remainder of his contract. Real Madrid signed him for free without paying PSG anything and in return Mbappe will receive a stunning salary and massive signing-on fee. Maybe that distracted him.

And yes the way the French team was set up was not exactly brilliant. They had individual talent across the team but they did not have an aura about them. There was no Zidane, Henry, Vieira Thuram or Petit. They had no flare and no excitement, clearly something was wrong and the blame has to lay with their manager Deschamps.

My bet on England to win the tournament lost unfortunately but they still did their best despite Southgate. Now he has resigned so I wonder who their next manager is going to be.  

The odds on some of the names being mentioned are interesting and Newcastle United manager Eddie Howe is tipped as the replacement for Southgate but the Newcastle United owners made it clear they will not allow him to leave.

[Igebotz]

No, there are many criteria but in the end there is usually a pattern to ensues in the voting system every year. Not only did Ronaldo and Messi win it without winning the Champions League, there were times when Messi won when clearly he should not have won. As for Ronaldo, I think he won it on merit the five times he was awarded. I can think of at least two occasions from those eight when Messi should not have been awarded it (maybe more if I analyse the statistics more).

I can't recall any instances where Messi won undeservedly, but I do recall Ronaldo robbing Ribery of the Ballon D'or award in 2013. Ribery was literally the best player in Europe, having won every title including the Champions League, but the Ballon D'or was given to Ronaldo, who went trophyless.I recall Ribery blasting the award organisers for their decision.

The Real Madrid PR is unmatched, it's about popularity and PR now.

[mv1986]

No, there are many criteria but in the end there is usually a pattern to ensues in the voting system every year. Not only did Ronaldo and Messi win it without winning the Champions League, there were times when Messi won when clearly he should not have won. As for Ronaldo, I think he won it on merit the five times he was awarded. I can think of at least two occasions from those eight when Messi should not have been awarded it (maybe more if I analyse the statistics more).

I can't recall any instances where Messi won undeservedly, but I do recall Ronaldo robbing Ribery of the Ballon D'or award in 2013. Ribery was literally the best player in Europe, having won every title including the Champions League, but the Ballon D'or was given to Ronaldo, who went trophyless.I recall Ribery blasting the award organisers for their decision.

The Real Madrid PR is unmatched, it's about popularity and PR now.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh,

brothers! The sheriff against my friend JollyGood!

I gotta say, Messi is by far the best in the world. But there is a discussion, rightfully so, when it comes to talent.

Let's take take two people, one has the gift of someone above god, and the other person works their way up. Now work will reach limits, talent - depending on what ever the gift might be - could feel endless in comparison to the hard working person. Messi is a gifted person. He understands the game on a different level. Why? Because he gave the game a different meaning himself. It is not that he fulfilled requirements of genius, he created them in most regards. Ronaldo did so in a few regards, but Messi lifted the whole game to (onto? - asking for correction @JollyGood ) another level.

Agree? Or not? Whatever, elaborate!

[Igebotz]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh,

brothers! The sheriff against my friend JollyGood!

I gotta say, Messi is by far the best in the world. But there is a discussion, rightfully so, when it comes to talent.

Talent will always beat hard work; you must be at your best, constantly learning new things, to compete with someone who does it effortlessly. Someone who is naturally talented does not require the amount of time that Ronaldo spends at the gym building legs and abs; Messi does not require all of that; he goes to the burger shop before games and still outperforms everyone on the pitch; no hard work, just pure talent, but I really respect Ronaldo for staying up for that long to compete against him.

Both are fantastic players, but Messi is just extraordinary; he's versatile, he's a creator, whilst Ronaldo is simply a great goal scorer.

[JollyGood]

I can't recall any instances where Messi won undeservedly, but I do recall Ronaldo robbing Ribery of the Ballon D'or award in 2013. Ribery was literally the best player in Europe, having won every title including the Champions League, but the Ballon D'or was given to Ronaldo, who went trophyless.I recall Ribery blasting the award organisers for their decision.

The Real Madrid PR is unmatched, it's about popularity and PR now.

Without a doubt Ribery played excellent football for the majority of his time at Bayern Munich, including the time when he was playing some of the best football of his career. No doubt the issue about PR and popularity is true but it is not new and powerful clubs such as Real Madrid can get their way on many things. That season even if Ronaldo missed out on the Champions League he still played stunning football as an individual maybe that was why he pipped Ribery to the award.

He scored the only goal in the home defeat to Sweden and then a stunning hat-trick in the second leg away to single-handedly make Portugal qualify for the world cup. He scored 66 goals in 56 games. In that season Ronaldo won and Messi came second both were ahead of Ribery whereas I think either Ribery should have come second to Ronaldo or won but either way Ronaldo or Ribery deserved to win but Messi should not have been in the top two.

I gotta say, Messi is by far the best in the world. But there is a discussion, rightfully so, when it comes to talent.

Indeed. In my opinion about Messi, he simply did not deserve to win the two most recent of his awards 2021 and 2023. I would probably consider 2019 as another. I remember Ribery being furious and a lot of people surprised he did not win that year but on merit but Ronaldo scoring 66 goals in just 56 games was something spectacular.

Was Ribery robbed in 2013? It is difficult to understand how Messi was voted ahead of him that season but it is understandable why Ronaldo would be voted above him. Likewise, it is understandable why Ribery would be voted ahead of both Ronaldo and Messi.

Ronaldo did so in a few regards, but Messi lifted the whole game to (onto? - asking for correction @JollyGood ) another level.

game to and game onto and game on to will suffice, all are correct considering the context (but I am sure you already knew that)  

Agree? Or not? Whatever, elaborate!

I am speechless  

[Igebotz]

Indeed. In my opinion about Messi, he simply did not deserve to win the two most recent of his awards 2021 and 2023. I would probably consider 2019 as another. I remember Ribery being furious and a lot of people surprised he did not win that year but on merit but Ronaldo scoring 66 goals in just 56 games was something spectacular.

How can someone who led his country to World Cup glory as the tournament's MVP at that age not deserve the Ballon D'Or? When the closest person that year, Halaand, ghosted in all of City's crucial Champions League games and carried by his team? Oh, because he scored so many goals in the Premier League, he should get the Ballon d'Or?

Going by your logic for "the most goals scored in a season" Lewandowski, Suarez, Mbappe, and Kane would have won the Ballon D'Or a long time ago. Saying Ronaldo deserves it for scoring 66 goals and scoring against Sweden to put Portugal to the World Cup after going trophyless is just funny man....

Was Ribery robbed in 2013? It is difficult to understand how Messi was voted ahead of him that season but it is understandable why Ronaldo would be voted above him. Likewise, it is understandable why Ribery would be voted ahead of both Ronaldo and Messi.

Exactly what the organizers want you to think " let's place Messi in the second position so it would be difficult to understand how Messi was voted ahead of Ribery" this way we cause different reactions and confusion.

[mv1986]

I can't recall any instances where Messi won undeservedly, but I do recall Ronaldo robbing Ribery of the Ballon D'or award in 2013. Ribery was literally the best player in Europe, having won every title including the Champions League, but the Ballon D'or was given to Ronaldo, who went trophyless.I recall Ribery blasting the award organisers for their decision.

The Real Madrid PR is unmatched, it's about popularity and PR now.

Without a doubt Ribery played excellent football for the majority of his time at Bayern Munich, including the time when he was playing some of the best football of his career. No doubt the issue about PR and popularity is true but it is not new and powerful clubs such as Real Madrid can get their way on many things. That season even if Ronaldo missed out on the Champions League he still played stunning football as an individual maybe that was why he pipped Ribery to the award.

He scored the only goal in the home defeat to Sweden and then a stunning hat-trick in the second leg away to single-handedly make Portugal qualify for the world cup. He scored 66 goals in 56 games. In that season Ronaldo won and Messi came second both were ahead of Ribery whereas I think either Ribery should have come second to Ronaldo or won but either way Ronaldo or Ribery deserved to win but Messi should not have been in the top two.

I gotta say, Messi is by far the best in the world. But there is a discussion, rightfully so, when it comes to talent.

Indeed. In my opinion about Messi, he simply did not deserve to win the two most recent of his awards 2021 and 2023. I would probably consider 2019 as another. I remember Ribery being furious and a lot of people surprised he did not win that year but on merit but Ronaldo scoring 66 goals in just 56 games was something spectacular.

Was Ribery robbed in 2013? It is difficult to understand how Messi was voted ahead of him that season but it is understandable why Ronaldo would be voted above him. Likewise, it is understandable why Ribery would be voted ahead of both Ronaldo and Messi.

Ronaldo did so in a few regards, but Messi lifted the whole game to (onto? - asking for correction @JollyGood ) another level.

game to and game onto and game on to will suffice, all are correct considering the context (but I am sure you already knew that)  

Agree? Or not? Whatever, elaborate!

I am speechless  

I'll quote you in full to not harm the context here. Correct me if I am wrong, but my statistics (if you are referring to season 12/13) say something else.

Ronaldo: 55 games, 55 goals and 13 assists (13 yellows and one red)

Ribery: 43 games, 11 goals and 23 assists (4 yellows and one red)

Messi: 50 games, 60 goals and 17 assists (2 yellows).

Ribery scored a single Champions League goal that season. No goals in the DFB Pokal. I know that Ribery played an amazing season and goals shouldn't be the only metric. But when you compete against Ronaldo and Messi, there is hardly any way around taking on the challenge in terms of the number of goals scored. Messi scored 46 goals in 32 La Liga games. That is insane and not even his best (he once scored 50 goals in La Liga only).

I think these numbers are so crazy that it's just tough to see how the majority of entitled voters could go away from Messi. Also, fairness and complaints play a role, too. At least in the eyes of the public. Messi was sent off 2 times in his career. Ronaldo 12 times, constantly diving in the opponents' box and complaining nonstop. Ribery similar thing. They have all had their weak moments, but Messi by far not as much as the other superstars. That has always impressed me. In those clasicos, Messi was literally sent through a meat grinder against Real Madrid. Ramos, Pepe, Casemiro literally tried to break his legs and yet he never took a dive, never really complained in an exaggerated way, always kept going. That impressed the masses.

There are summaries on Youtube where they put together all those scenes where every other players would have just fallen to the ground, but Messi is a beast who always wanted to keep the game, the situation alive and make the best out of it. Ronaldo, this physically trained machine, fell like a barbie all too often. Ribery had to be held back by his coaches and teammates very frequently because everyone knew his complaints are about to lead to a red card.

I think all these details count and yes @JollyGood, Messi often left me speechless

[JollyGood]

I think all these details count and yes @JollyGood, Messi often left me speechless

Well, I think most football fans, commentators and players were also left speechless alongside Lewandowski in 2021 when he should have won the award but for inexplicable reasons it went to Messi  

At least that event and the furore that followed when Messi was unworthy of the award in 2021 changed the voting criteria but not enough and more changes are needed. Messi won again in 2023 on the back of winning the world cup and him being an ambassador for a gulf state, no doubt it would look good for him and those that invested in him for him to win the award and not surprisingly he did win it when Haaland was probably a better option.

Thankfully the award will never be awarded to Messi or Ronaldo again and football can move forward with new stars and superstars.

[Igebotz]

At least that event and the furore that followed when Messi was unworthy of the award in 2021 changed the voting criteria but not enough and more changes are needed. Messi won again in 2023 on the back of winning the world cup and him being an ambassador for a gulf state, no doubt it would look good for him and those that invested in him for him to win the award and not surprisingly he did win it when Haaland was probably a better option.

Messi had no serious competition for the award in 2023; his closest competitor, Halaand, did not even kick a ball in the World Cup and was not even the best player in Manchester City; if Mbappe had won the World Cup, he would have won ahead of Halaand; goal is not everything; being the best requires more than scoring a simple tapin against smaller teams and ghosting in big games.

With Messi out of the picture, we're left with Real Madrid PR and corruption, no one outside Madrid is touching it again for a long time.