Guys, what electrum server you run

[Jason Brendon]

https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/server-performance.html

based on this blog, we see as an electrum server implementation, Fulcrum is absolutely the winner in terms of performance.
But my question is, should i support this project which is created by a BCH developer and it supports not BTC only, but ltc, bch...

If that wasn't the case for Fulcrum, i'd be opting in right away. But because it came from a shitcoin supporter, i am just hesitating...

Need your guys opinions

[NeuroticFish]

Need your guys opinions

It always depends what are you using for that electrum server, personal use or public internet.

I've played a little with EPS and I didn't like it, then I went for Electrs (on WSL).
For my personal use it's just perfect and I was able to also install on top of it a block explorer too.

Fulcrum .. I had the same dilemma too (it sounds more a BCH software supporting BTC too than something built for BTC) plus when I've done my setup (and had the time for it) I didn't really see reviews from people using Fulcrum, especially on a Windows PC (with WSL, remember?).
Meanwhile I've also read (but I am not 100% sure) that Fulcrum may be using a couple of hundreds of GB of disk space for its data (I would be happy to be corrected if it's the case), compared to the 36 GB Electrs data is taking me now.

Electrum X I didn't manage to install. Because of some settings of mine and things I've read I was avoiding Docker. Plus this is more an enterprise solution, for publishing "in the wild", which Electrs doesn't offer (hence keeping Electrs lighter).

You may also want to discuss also about Blockstream's fork of Electrs. It's advertised on Electrs Git as a solution for having something like Electrs for the public/internet. It's advertised to be resource hungry, but also very efficient. Plus it'll work with mempool.space, if you want a block explorer too.

[Jason Brendon]

Need your guys opinions

It always depends what are you using for that electrum server, personal use or public internet.

I've played a little with EPS and I didn't like it, then I went for Electrs (on WSL).
For my personal use it's just perfect and I was able to also install on top of it a block explorer too.

Fulcrum .. I had the same dilemma too (it sounds more a BCH software supporting BTC too than something built for BTC) plus when I've done my setup (and had the time for it) I didn't really see reviews from people using Fulcrum, especially on a Windows PC (with WSL, remember?).
Meanwhile I've also read (but I am not 100% sure) that Fulcrum may be using a couple of hundreds of GB of disk space for its data (I would be happy to be corrected if it's the case), compared to the 36 GB Electrs data is taking me now.

Electrum X I didn't manage to install. Because of some settings of mine and things I've read I was avoiding Docker. Plus this is more an enterprise solution, for publishing "in the wild", which Electrs doesn't offer (hence keeping Electrs lighter).

You may also want to discuss also about Blockstream's fork of Electrs. It's advertised on Electrs Git as a solution for having something like Electrs for the public/internet. It's advertised to be resource hungry, but also very efficient. Plus it'll work with mempool.space, if you want a block explorer too.

for electrs, overall speaking, it's good. I have been using electrs for over 6 months. But the problem is that when you try to explore an address with many trasctions with mempool explorer, it takes forever...

that's the concern for me. I really don't mind taking a bit more storage, as long as it can speed the query up.

[NeuroticFish]

But the problem is that when you try to explore an address with many trasctions with mempool explorer, it takes forever...

It has happened only once to me in ~14 months of using it.

I would be more than happy to see somebody installing Fulcrum, tell how it's working and maybe also make a short tutorial.
If nobody does it, I may try that myself in the not-too-far future.

[Jason Brendon]

But the problem is that when you try to explore an address with many trasctions with mempool explorer, it takes forever...

It has happened only once to me in ~14 months of using it.

I would be more than happy to see somebody installing Fulcrum, tell how it's working and maybe also make a short tutorial.
If nobody does it, I may try that myself in the not-too-far future.

by the way, you mentioned blockstream/electrs, which is a real beast...
It requires:
20-core CPU (more is better)
64GB RAM (more is better)
4TB SSD (NVMe is better)

i think i will give it a pass... as long as i need it for myself except for times when i would query some addresses with many transctions.
blockstream/electrs for personal use is an overkill for sure.

I believe that fulcrum should be somewhere in the middle between electrs and blockstream/electrs.
 

[NeuroticFish]

I believe that fulcrum should be somewhere in the middle between electrs and blockstream/electrs.

It is. At least that's what mempool.space FAQ is saying. First it puts Fulcrum between the original Electrs and Blockstream's, and also tells:

Fulcrum requires more resources than romanz/electrs but it can still run on a Raspberry Pi, and it handles heavy queries much more efficiently. If you're having issues with romanz/electrs, Fulcrum is worth a try.

You made me read a little more into Fulcrum and the official documentation writes about "~40GB disk space for mainnet BCH (slightly more for BTC)", which should be much less than I've expected. For that I do have space, hence I've just configured it for local use and fired it up. Let's see how it goes.

[Cricktor]

Meanwhile I've also read (but I am not 100% sure) that Fulcrum may be using a couple of hundreds of GB of disk space for its data (I would be happy to be corrected if it's the case), compared to the 36 GB Electrs data is taking me now.

I run a RaspiBlitz with Fulcrum 1.6 (still didn't update to a more recent version) and it eats as of now about 112GiB of disk space, quite far from your "hundrets of GB". I gladly pay triple the space and gain a lightning fast electrum server compared to electrs.

I ditched electrs because it was always a pain in the butt when dealing with addresses that have a large or even very large transaction history. You can easily configure Fulcrum to handle such large or very very large transaction histories with ease and way way faster than ever possible with electrs (if at all).

[DireWolfM14]

I've been running ElectrumX for a couple of years now, and it's been great.  Very fast and robust, I've never had any issues with it loading wallets with tons of transactions.

Last year I built another node (mostly for experimentation and use with mempool) and chose Romanz Electrs for that one.  Now I have Mempool and LND tied into the electrs server, and it too has been running without issue for several months.  Electrs is a bit slower to load wallets with tons of transactions, but not so slow as to be bothersome.  In fact, it's barely noticeable, really.  I don't broadcast my servers for public use, they're primarily for my personal use so I've never encountered a scenario where they were cumbersomely slow.  

I've played with EPS also, but I didn't care for it too much.  It would be okay for occasional use but not as a daemon for other apps to reference.

One server you haven't mentioned is Blockstream Esplora, which is the branch of electrs server used as the backend for Blockstream's block explorer, and the one recommended by the Mempool.space developers.  I have no experience with it, but I've heard that it's more robust than Romanz electrs, but it also requires more resources.

I've also never used Fulcrum, so I have no experience to relay about that.

For personal use I would say Romanz Electrs is probably the most practical.  It doesn't need a ton of resources, it's easy enough to set up, and has been very reliable in my experience.

[Jason Brendon]

Meanwhile I've also read (but I am not 100% sure) that Fulcrum may be using a couple of hundreds of GB of disk space for its data (I would be happy to be corrected if it's the case), compared to the 36 GB Electrs data is taking me now.

I run a RaspiBlitz with Fulcrum 1.6 (still didn't update to a more recent version) and it eats as of now about 112GiB of disk space, quite far from your "hundrets of GB". I gladly pay triple the space and gain a lightning fast electrum server compared to electrs.

I ditched electrs because it was always a pain in the butt when dealing with addresses that have a large or even very large transaction history. You can easily configure Fulcrum to handle such large or very very large transaction histories with ease and way way faster than ever possible with electrs (if at all).

of course, like i said, Fulctrum outdoes all the other alternatives. The only problem i have with it is it's made by a BCH developer.

[NeuroticFish]

I've got Fulcrum build his database during the week-end. It grew to 112.7GB. Not small, but not too big.

The first config had a lot of values on default and Fulcrum started trying to connect to a lot of peers after the sync.
For a second run I've turned more things off, but Bitcoin RPC Explorer only just gave me errors.
A third run was the lucky one.

The first request for address info was very slow though. Afterwards (for other addresses, clearly), all explorer requests were fast.
The fill up of wallet data in Electrum, afterwards, was also OK.

The only problem is that for now Fulcrum data in on the SSD I've done the initial download with. Now I'll move everything to the HDD designated for the job. It'll make the things slower, clearly, but you've got the test you aimed for.

Some recommendations for the config on the normal run:

Code:

tcp = 127.0.0.1:50001
the rest of protocols - commented
peering = false
announce = false
public_tcp_port = 50001
the rest of protocols - commented

During the initial sync I also had:

Code:

db_max_open_files = 80
fast-sync = 8000

of course, like i said, Fulctrum outdoes all the other alternatives. The only problem i have with it is it's made by a BCH developer.

I cannot tell more. Optimal would be that maybe somebody does a really good look into the code. But I won't.
I am still deciding whether to use or not Fulcrum for long term. It's nice to have so simple "setup" on Windows, but Electrs is already configured too.
Speed is nice too. I hope it helps anybody. Maybe we get more feedback too.
These days I'll add Fulcrum to that docu/install topic too.

[Jason Brendon]

Need your guys opinions

It always depends what are you using for that electrum server, personal use or public internet.

I've played a little with EPS and I didn't like it, then I went for Electrs (on WSL).
For my personal use it's just perfect and I was able to also install on top of it a block explorer too.

Fulcrum .. I had the same dilemma too (it sounds more a BCH software supporting BTC too than something built for BTC) plus when I've done my setup (and had the time for it) I didn't really see reviews from people using Fulcrum, especially on a Windows PC (with WSL, remember?).
Meanwhile I've also read (but I am not 100% sure) that Fulcrum may be using a couple of hundreds of GB of disk space for its data (I would be happy to be corrected if it's the case), compared to the 36 GB Electrs data is taking me now.

Electrum X I didn't manage to install. Because of some settings of mine and things I've read I was avoiding Docker. Plus this is more an enterprise solution, for publishing "in the wild", which Electrs doesn't offer (hence keeping Electrs lighter).

You may also want to discuss also about Blockstream's fork of Electrs. It's advertised on Electrs Git as a solution for having something like Electrs for the public/internet. It's advertised to be resource hungry, but also very efficient. Plus it'll work with mempool.space, if you want a block explorer too.

tried Fulcrum last Saturday and today i've completed the sync.
works like a beast... far better than electrs in terms of performance.

[PawGo]

tried Fulcrum last Saturday and today i've completed the sync.
works like a beast... far better than electrs in terms of performance.

In which sense?
Are you able to open wallet with (watch-only of course) address 19iqYbeATe4RxghQZJnYVFU4mjUUu76EA6?
It has almost 90k transactions and I must admit electrs cannot handle it efficiently.

[NeuroticFish]

Are you able to open wallet with (watch-only of course) address 19iqYbeATe4RxghQZJnYVFU4mjUUu76EA6?
It has almost 90k transactions and I must admit electrs cannot handle it efficiently.

Since I am doing tests with Fulcrum right now, I can tell you:
I took some 70 seconds, but it opened it (Fulcrum + BTC-RPC-Explorer).
It shows only 10 transactions per page, 8822 pages, but clicking on the pages load up pretty fast.

[PawGo]

Are you able to open wallet with (watch-only of course) address 19iqYbeATe4RxghQZJnYVFU4mjUUu76EA6?
It has almost 90k transactions and I must admit electrs cannot handle it efficiently.

Since I am doing tests with Fulcrum right now, I can tell you:
I took some 70 seconds, but it opened it (Fulcrum + BTC-RPC-Explorer).
It shows only 10 transactions per page, 8822 pages, but clicking on the pages load up pretty fast.

Maybe I didn’t write clearly what I ask for. Btc-rpc-explorer is other thing, it works fins as long as you have txindex.
I wanted to know if Electrum connected to that server is able to generate a wallet (or maybe I am completely wrong and my problem is somewhere else, maybe it is Electrum problem).

[NeuroticFish]

I wanted to know if Electrum connected to that server is able to generate a wallet (or maybe I am completely wrong and my problem is somewhere else, maybe it is Electrum problem).

Here there are imho two problems, and the server is the smallest one.

According to the documentation, in order to allow this kind of addresses, Fulcrum may need in config something like:
max_history = 25000000

Also according to what I've read, Electrs may also offer a similar option in config or command line, but I don't know if it's
index-lookup-limit = 1000 (is it enough?)
or
txid_limit = 1000 (or more?)

However, I could not get any success, I've got in logs the nefarious
WARNING | NotificationSession | MemoryError('dropping message over 1,000,000 bytes and re-synchronizing')

And from what I've read here, in order to fix this, Electrum itself needs a change in the code ^{MAX_INCOMING_MSG_SIZE in interface.py}, and then recompiled.

So my few tests are irrelevant, it seems. I've done more reading than testing.


PS. I start hating Fulcrum. It starts up too slow from my external HDD, while Electrs is lightning fast on that.

[Jason Brendon]

tried Fulcrum last Saturday and today i've completed the sync.
works like a beast... far better than electrs in terms of performance.

In which sense?
Are you able to open wallet with (watch-only of course) address 19iqYbeATe4RxghQZJnYVFU4mjUUu76EA6?
It has almost 90k transactions and I must admit electrs cannot handle it efficiently.

took me half a minute to see all the transactions, fulctrum with mempool.
with electrs, it's not going to happen. I'm not saying bad about electrs, but int terms of performance, fulcrum is way better. But yeah, fulcrum is created by a BCH developer. Can you accept it?

[NeuroticFish]

took me half a minute to see all the transactions, fulctrum with mempool.

With Electrum on default settings?! Or you have a special build (or setting??!) for Electrum?
I would like to try the same, but when trying with Fulcrum I've seen those messages in the log and I thought that Electrum has failed me (I've waited with Electrum on Fulcrum more than 30 minutes before giving up).

[Jason Brendon]

took me half a minute to see all the transactions, fulctrum with mempool.

With Electrum on default settings?! Or you have a special build (or setting??!) for Electrum?
I would like to try the same, but when trying with Fulcrum I've seen those messages in the log and I thought that Electrum has failed me (I've waited with Electrum on Fulcrum more than 30 minutes before giving up).

nothing particular.
I put this address in my self-hosted mempool explorer which fetches data from Fulcrum. Normally with electrs, it throws me an error saying over the limit. But with fulcrum, it is a 30-second job.

[NeuroticFish]

took me half a minute to see all the transactions, fulctrum with mempool.

With Electrum on default settings?! Or you have a special build (or setting??!) for Electrum?
I would like to try the same, but when trying with Fulcrum I've seen those messages in the log and I thought that Electrum has failed me (I've waited with Electrum on Fulcrum more than 30 minutes before giving up).

nothing particular.
I put this address in my self-hosted mempool explorer which fetches data from Fulcrum. Normally with electrs, it throws me an error saying over the limit. But with fulcrum, it is a 30-second job.

Well, this is what PawGo said he doesn't want (after I made a similar test at first).
He was aiming with a test with Electrum; i.e. with a wallet made from that address in Electrum.
Thanks though.
You've scared me, I thought I was missing something obvious with Electrum

[NotATether]

by the way, you mentioned blockstream/electrs, which is a real beast...
It requires:
20-core CPU (more is better)
64GB RAM (more is better)
4TB SSD (NVMe is better)

Holy sh!t, even I don't have anywhere near those specs.

So what are the resource requirements for vanilla electrs? Hopefully not anything more than Bitcoin Core (minus all that storage and bandwidth).