[REDACTED]

[SeeBiscuit]

[DaveF]

No, and you would not want one anyway.
A hardware wallet should be 100% offline.
No potential for it to send data someplace or for some other way to connect without the user physically doing it.

No potential for someone to install apps that may compromise security no possibility to run something that should not be run and so on.

-Dave

[NeuroticFish]

Is there a way to add hardware into a phone that is separate from the phone itself but can still interact with it from the inside to sign transactions and truly keep your bitcoins in your phone?

It is, but it was discussed and it's a very bad idea (read below). Plus, it makes the phone unnecessarily more expensive for people not needing that feature, hence not good for business.

And if someone stole the phone, they still have to unlock it with possibly a passcode, Face ID, Touch ID, and any other walls of security such as passwords to open apps.

I’ll have plenty of time to restore a wallet real quick I guess while the monkey whole stole my phone tries to get inside it.

Unless that monkey also steals you (or a picture of you) or your finger, or the last items you've had your fingerprints on.
No. Phone security is weak and "the monkey" may move your money out before you even notice the phone is missing.

----
And about your initial question, I think hat Samsung had ideas in that direction, but a quick search has only revealed this topic (2021) and this one (2019) on the matter.

[Charles-Tim]

1.) Get a VPN and set it to where it's on as soon as the phone turns on.

Hardware wallet are more secure than online wallets, but they are mostly connected to SPV client which makes them not private. Just as you can use Tor with other wallets, it can helps in anonymity, not security.

2.) Airplane mode and connect to a secure internet connection

You have your phone on airplane mode, but it can easily be turned on. To discourage that kind of habit, it is best to remove the WiFi, Bluetooth, NFC and other components that can be used to connect to other devices and to the internet.

[lifeID]

Has anyone seen the Solana Saga phone? Agree that relying on a phone's hardware wallet could lead to issues- but using it like a hot wallet could dramatically improve the user experience for mobile transactions

[dkbit98]

Sort of like a ledger or cold card but a phone as well?

There are some hardware wallets that look like phones but they are actually hardware wallets, in first place this is Passport hardware wallet by Foundation.
Passport started as ColdCard fork but with open source software and hardware, with added improvements and much better look.
Keystone wallet also looks like smaller smartphone, and it only functions as hardware wallet.

You can use old smartphones for coins but I would not consider it to be safe as hardware wallet for several reasons, but you can use them in combination with other hardware wallets.

One guy even used old Nokia phone to turn it into Bitcoin wallet:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5420438.0

WiPhone can also be used for some Bitcoin wallet project:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5403646.0

[m2017]

Why are you trying to cram another feature into your phone? It already has a great amount of functionality, which makes the phone a multi-tool. As is usually the case with devices that try to combine the functions of many others, the quality of the functionality turns out to be worse. That is, the phone can have a hardware wallet function, but the level of protection will be much lower, and the risk of losing it also increases, since you always and everywhere carry the phone with you in everyday life. This is not suitable for large sums, because you don't carry all your savings with you and is only acceptable for pocket money, the loss of which you can afford. It is better not to combine the hardware wallet with the phone and keep it in a safe place. Moreover, you will rarely use HW anyway.

We'll have to choose between security and reliability between convenience and mobility.

[NeuroticFish]

I think you meant you can have it on airplane mode but it can easily be turned off, right?

Some voices are not convinced that everything can be properly turned off, see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5377997
And, in your case at least, the point it to not turn everything off and use it as every day smartphone, isn't it? And that's, by far, much riskier.

[joniboini]

I've read into the Saga phone the other post mentioned, and it does seem to service the market of people who want all four of security reliability convenience and mobility when it comes to hotwallets.

It looks like the phone uses Qualcomm's latest technology on a secure chip. If I read it correctly, this won't be an exclusive technology for some manufacturers, so I won't be surprised if there will be more apps that support it in the future. The point is, it is not gonna be hardware or software exclusive, so I'd rather wait and just use any Android phone with open-source apps to manage my crypto right now if necessary.

Most of these hacks are done via phishing or social engineering anyway. A secure device won't help you at all if you just give your password to whoever asks you. CMIIW.

Also, the question "why cram so much into the phone", has been asked so many times for the last 20 years. Humanity doesn't seem to care, and seems to constantly deviate towards innovation when it comes to smartphones.

You can certainly add more features, but it also adds more attack vectors. It might work, but it will always be riskier to use compared to a dedicated device that is designed to cater to specific needs IMO. Don't know how balanced it will be but I personally don't want to risk security for extra mobility. I never bring my HW outside of my house or when I travel anyway. If I lose it that will be a disaster.

[Pmalek]

Or is this impossible and we will always need dedicated hardware that is separate from devices like phones and computers for security reasons when it comes to large amounts of coin?

Even if there was something like that, why would you opt to use that instead of a standalone device that you only connect to when you need it to sign transactions and move your crypto? A phone that you use for all kinds of activities shouldn't be used as a storage for your private keys and seeds. Too many things could go wrong despite what the manufacturers say. Many people simply use their phones as a testing ground for games and dubious apps. They allow permissions and give apps rights without considering what it means. That's not an environment for your digital assets and their signing keys.

To discourage that kind of habit, it is best to remove the WiFi, Bluetooth, NFC and other components that can be used to connect to other devices and to the internet.

I doubt you will have much success trying that. Those components are surely all soldered to the main board, and unless you know what you are doing and have an engineering background, you are more than likely to destroy your phone. All the antennas and chips can be disabled on the software side, but who knows who and what can turn them on again if required to. 

Passport started as ColdCard fork but with open source software and hardware, with added improvements and much better look.

I thought they were a fork of Trezor's codebase. Doesn't ColdCard work with a license that doesn't allow anyone to redistribute, use, or modify their code for their own purposes? Or maybe that wasn't the case when Passport forked it...

[pat1900]

... on a secure chip.

I wonder why HTC abandoned the HTC Exodus 1 and Exodus 1s product line around 2 years ago, which included another hardware-based wallet solution, see https://www.htcexodus.com/

IIRC it wasn't intended to be a cold wallet, but it was more secure than a piece of software while easier to handle than a hardware wallet, I guess.

[dkbit98]

I thought they were a fork of Trezor's codebase. Doesn't ColdCard work with a license that doesn't allow anyone to redistribute, use, or modify their code for their own purposes? Or maybe that wasn't the case when Passport forked it...

ColdCard used some parts of Trezor code few years ago, and even if NVK keeps making excuses about it I posted proof of Trezor developer confirming this.
When Passport foundation hardware wallet was released they initially used original ColdCard code that was modified, after that NVK from ColdCard decided to change code from open source to common clause.
So the main reason for ColdCard changing their license is because they don't want people using any of their code 

[Pmalek]

When Passport foundation hardware wallet was released they initially used original ColdCard code that was modified, after that NVK from ColdCard decided to change code from open source to common clause.
So the main reason for ColdCard changing their license is because they don't want people using any of their code 

OK, I get it now. I have already known about ColdCard's use of Trezor's open-source code to build their own product, but I thought they started off with a Common Clause license despite of that. Seems like they don't want to give their competitors a helping hand in any way, even by providing open-source code. It's cold blooded business but also scumbag behavior.   

[Husires]

Do you mean that inside your phone there is a "cold storage build-in wallet" or just a wallet that connects to hardware wallets?
I think Galaxy S10 can do that and I read somewhere that they have a phone that works as a full node, syncs, and you can run it as cold storage but I don't remember the exact name.

[Pmalek]

Do you mean that inside your phone there is a "cold storage build-in wallet" or just a wallet that connects to hardware wallets?
I think Galaxy S10 can do that and I read somewhere that they have a phone that works as a full node, syncs, and you can run it as cold storage but I don't remember the exact name.

You are probably talking about the Samsung Blockchain Wallet, although I have never heard talks about it being a full node. I doubt it is to tell you the truth. This solution of theirs was first announced back in 2019. I don't know how popular it has become in the meantime. I don't remember reading any complaints or praises on Bitcointalk. It's both a wallet and a key manager. It's supposedly non-custodial, but who knows?!

There was some talk a long time ago that sensitive data gets backed up on Samsung's cloud and that's not something you want. But even if it's an opt in/opt out feature by Samsung, would you trust them not to back anything up even if they say they won't? It's surely not an open-source solution, so you can't verify anything on your own and you are stuck trusting a company whose main business is not crypto or the security of other peoples' funds. 

[erep]

You are probably talking about the Samsung Blockchain Wallet, although I have never heard talks about it being a full node. I doubt it is to tell you the truth. This solution of theirs was first announced back in 2019. I don't know how popular it has become in the meantime. I don't remember reading any complaints or praises on Bitcointalk. It's both a wallet and a key manager. It's supposedly non-custodial, but who knows?!

I didn't even know that the Samsung Blockchain Wallet has been launched since 2019, I didn't find a review from the forum regarding that information or maybe I have missed it. I've accessed the Galaxy store at https://galaxystore.samsung.com/prepost/000006169962 and found that the app has 0 user reviews and even though I don't get any information on installed apps.

There was some talk a long time ago that sensitive data gets backed up on Samsung's cloud and that's not something you want. But even if it's an opt in/opt out feature by Samsung, would you trust them not to back anything up even if they say they won't? It's surely not an open-source solution, so you can't verify anything on your own and you are stuck trusting a company whose main business is not crypto or the security of other peoples' funds. 

If sensitive data from phrase can be backed up to cloud samsung without notification to user then it will be dangerous, but so far the backup to cloud samsung feature is not available and user can only backup recovery phrase for manual save for personal, but I also can't trust that app is open source. But regarding security, in October a vulnerability was detected in the application with the description "Intent redirection vulnerability in Samsung Blockchain Wallet prior to version 1.3.02.8 allows attackers to execute privileged actions." but the information has been added to samsung security website, maybe they have fixed the problem.

[NotATether]

If sensitive data from phrase can be backed up to cloud samsung without notification to user then it will be dangerous, but so far the backup to cloud samsung feature is not available and user can only backup recovery phrase for manual save for personal, but I also can't trust that app is open source. But regarding security, in October a vulnerability was detected in the application with the description "Intent redirection vulnerability in Samsung Blockchain Wallet prior to version 1.3.02.8 allows attackers to execute privileged actions." but the information has been added to samsung security website, maybe they have fixed the problem.

Well, that's not good enough. Most people do not update their apps, so are still running a vulnerable version that is easily exploited using a few pieces of Android malware.

It goes on to underscore why you should not store large stashes on mobile wallets.

[dkbit98]

The Saga Phone is a android phone with an airgapped wallet INSIDE of it. (seedvault)

Is this correct or are we missing something?

I didn't research this Saga Phone deeper, and I didn't test it myself, but I don't consider this shitcoin wallet to be airgapped since it functions similar like regular smartphoens.
When we know how many times Solana shitchain stopped working for various reasons, makes me trust even less their magical Saga wallet.
Any device that have bluetooth, wifi, nfc, phone aim tower connection, and internet connection, can't be considered airgapped device.
I don't know how their seed vault works (could be similar like Samsung and Google phones), but I wouldn't waste a single sat on this presale ^(scam).

[Edwardard]

The Saga Phone is a android phone with an airgapped wallet INSIDE of it. (seedvault)

Is this correct or are we missing something?

I didn't research this Saga Phone deeper, and I didn't test it myself, but I don't consider this shitcoin wallet to be airgapped since it functions similar like regular smartphoens.
When we know how many times Solana shitchain stopped working for various reasons, makes me trust even less their magical Saga wallet.
Any device that have bluetooth, wifi, nfc, phone aim tower connection, and internet connection, can't be considered airgapped device.
I don't know how their seed vault works (could be similar like Samsung and Google phones), but I wouldn't waste a single sat on this presale ^(scam).

Correct. I think mobile phones cant replace hardware wallet features. Btw, still Im interested in knowing about this saga phone's price since it claims to be a blockchain based device (I know even HTC tried this before and failed) , where can one buy it ? Is there a thread about it in the forum? Specs ? Anyone? If someone got any legit source, you may post it here.

account for sale

Wait. Now what?!!

[goatpig]

Correct. I think mobile phones cant replace hardware wallet features.

Phones TPM speak PKCS11. As long as you're willing write in the native language (Kotlin or Objective-C), and the TPM lists EC as a supported feature (they all do RSA but EC is present maybe 50% of the time?), then you can do hardware exponentiation and signing. Vaults on phones are "fairly" well implemented from my experience, the material is correctly enclaved to the binary that created the entry, and with the proper options at creation, it will never reveal the private data.

Phones as a primary hardware wallet are useless, but as a secondary signer in a multisig scheme, why not?