Campaign managers acting as Escrow

[Woodie]

Many of the times, signature campaigns , contests and any other service are usually asked to escrow funds to guarantee payment after a service is completed by its participants to avoid companies from not honoring their dues, but what happens in an instance of funds being escrowed and the escrow urgent losses the money It's not the first time seeing a campaign manager losing funds on the forum..the latest being [banned mixer] | Bitcoin Mixer | Signature Campaign in less than 4hrs funds gone($4.2k)...

Code:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
This is julerz12 of Bitcointalk.org signing this address bc1q5ck3twey8n76pqe5dvtxwvpmyc78ccwfct4rmh for Yo!Mix BTC escrow address on 01/09/2023
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
bc1q5ck3twey8n76pqe5dvtxwvpmyc78ccwfct4rmh
Hz0X6JUUemDXIDaV0ct25hvxs1MFah+y++dbQ/2gWpf1F0CP8EJknrSrcwTskBU0Q/hDaf3Eowv42DYstRSSC8Y=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds and get tagged till such a repayment is done?

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[DaveF]

IMO and JUST IMO
The manager is responsible for the payments for the work done for the participants. So if someone was owed $50 they get the $50. This should come out of the campaign managers pocket.
If the company paying for it wants to pay the people to keep a good image out there that is up to them.

The rest of the funds is a semi private thing between the company and the manager. If they want to go after them legally or just take the loss or whatever is not really any of our business.
If they WANT they can post about it and discuss it here in public, but there is no reason to. Once the participants get paid, it's no longer our concern.

-Dave

[yahoo62278]

When I 1st started managing I had used an escr9w by the name of masterP. He did a great job for a month or so and I thought he had a decent reputation.

Needless to say he ended up scamming a few users. I'm not sure the total amount he stole but there was 7-8 btc stolen from me IIRC.

I had taken my proof to the companies and most of them ate the loss. I felt terrible and paid out nearly 2btc from my pocket at the time even though many were saying it was not my responsibility. 

That caused me to start holding funds for campaigns myself.

Now getting to your question, should managers be held responsible? Depends on the situation IMO. This person has managed a few btc paying campaigns I believe but mainly manages bounties.

In most cases the manager is going to be responsible,  but if said manager can show proof they were hacked(and I mean absolute fucking proof) then there may be some leniency but they'd still have to repay the company somehow.

If an actual escrow was used, then yes. This is not an escrow, this is a manager golding the funds. Escrow is defined as a 3rd party. What happens is going to be based off of how the community feels about julerz and the situation and whether they believe his/her story.

[fachant]

I think the answer to this question will be the same when we ask if any Escrow is responsible for the entrusted money?
In my opinion if someone undertakes to secure a transaction, he at the same time assumes all obligations. If it wasn't like that, what secure it would be?

[LoyceV]

Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds

I've seen an escrow involved in someone losing $50,000, and everyone still trusts him.

Code:

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
This is julerz12 of Bitcointalk.org signing this address bc1q5ck3twey8n76pqe5dvtxwvpmyc78ccwfct4rmh for Yo!Mix BTC escrow address on 01/09/2023
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
bc1q5ck3twey8n76pqe5dvtxwvpmyc78ccwfct4rmh
Hz0X6JUUemDXIDaV0ct25hvxs1MFah+y++dbQ/2gWpf1F0CP8EJknrSrcwTskBU0Q/hDaf3Eowv42DYstRSSC8Y=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

What's the point of signing a message from the deposit address itself, instead of an old staked address? Anyone can sign that exact same message with a brand new address, all it does is prove that whoever signed it, has access to that address. It doesn't even prove that julerz12 ownes it.

[dkbit98]

Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds and get tagged till such a repayment is done?

They should 100% be responsible for their action especially if holding other people money is involved.
This is not some game that manager is playing, and he always needs to be ready to pay money back from his own pocket, like Hhampuz done several times in past.
People should take situations like this more seriously, and simple ''sorry'' with blaming alleged mysterious hackers just wont do it.
If someone gives you money to keep and you lose it for any reason, than you need to return this money to original owner, it's that simple.

[NeuroticFish]

The way I see it is: he took responsibility of holding money that's not his own and now that money is gone.
The responsibility... still remains and, I guess it won't be easy, but he will have to handle that.

It's not uncommon somebody has to pay from his own pocket for this kind of mistakes.
And, unfortunately, it's also not uncommon that even after paying from his own pocket, his good name on the forum remains (somewhat) tainted.

No matter how good or bad are @julerz12 intentions, tough days are ahead.  


Edit: I see that he also realized all this

I know all of you will not believe me but I will do everything I can to repay the lost funds even if it takes a while.

[jokers10]

...
Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds and get tagged till such a repayment is done?

Provision of escrow service means the one takes responsibility for escrowed money. Main idea of a third party in a deal is in that. If a third party doesn't guarantee the coordinated payment than why is it needed?

So all that is definitely about trust: leaving a feedback basing on how the one treats escrowed money is a correct usage of forum's trust system. IMO.

[8rch7]

I don't stand at one side between julerz12 or OP claimed acting about Bounty Manager, but I have been working with this BM at several time on Moonbet Signature Campaign. Almost several time working there not any problem yet about distribution and his campaigns used escrowed.

Before this cases happening, never has delay payment when joining with campaign or signature managed by julerz12, right now lets waiting what happen and which one true about campaign manager acting as escrow or this cases true based on manager loss his escrow money more than $5,000.

[BitcoinPanther]

Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds and get tagged till such a repayment is done?

It is obvious, escrow must be liable for any loss of funds. First, it is his service and he is paid for it.  Second, unless parties agrees that escrow shouldn't held responsible for any losses of the fund, escrow bear 100% responsibility if things like hacks happened. Just like what happened in julerz12 case. Being a bounty manager and at the same time escrow should held him liable for any losses.  Although I don't think that he hacked the fund himself, he must bear the responsibility of paying back the escrowed money which I think he is promising to do, taking responsibility of the incident.

[julerz12]

Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds and get tagged till such a repayment is done?

Yes. Whether it's a third party escrow or the bounty manager himself, the liability falls to whoever holds the funds.

With that being said, I totally agree and understand if much of the users in this forum would paint my account red. I was too full of myself thinking the funds are safe sitting on a hotwallet. I should have known better than to trade the security of the funds for the convenience of using a hotwallet.

[jokers10]

I don't stand at one side between julerz12 or OP claimed acting about Bounty Manager, but I have been working with this BM at several time on Moonbet Signature Campaign. Almost several time working there not any problem yet about distribution and his campaigns used escrowed.

Before this cases happening, never has delay payment when joining with campaign or signature managed by julerz12, right now lets waiting what happen and which one true about campaign manager acting as escrow or this cases true based on manager loss his escrow money more than $5,000.

julerz12 stated that he is going to repay all lost money with time, so he recognized his responsibility in this case. And as you can see he's got only neutral trust reviews for this case and there is definitely no reasons for red tags as for now. I hope he can solve all his problems.

[Ojima-ojo]

Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds and get tagged till such a repayment is done?

Yes. Whether it's a third party escrow or the bounty manager himself, the liability falls to whoever holds the funds.

With that being said, I totally agree and understand if much of the users in this forum would paint my account red. I was too full of myself thinking the funds are safe sitting on a hotwallet. I should have known better than to trade the security of the funds for the convenience of using a hotwallet.

Oh yeah even Sam Bankman-Fried made similar statement during his interview with the investigators, that at the time in the operation of the FTX exchange, he got carried away and he lost touch with the ways funds were being moved in the exchange which lead to lost of billions of dollars investors money.

But that doesn't stop him from being held responsible for what happen, and in your own case too.

It's good you are accepting responsibility for your negligence in handling the campaign funds entrusted in you custody based on trust but at this point, the trust has been betrayed by what happened.

But what ever ways, you try to reach an agreement with the company team on repayment plans,  because that is the honourable thing toe do right now in this situation.

[Mpamaegbu]

But that doesn't stop him from being held responsible for what happen, and in your own case too.

From all that I've read about the ongoing case, Julerz hasn't denied responsibility for what happened. If anything, he has several times admitted that he fucked up by being too relaxed on his wallet security while at the same time he has offered to sell off his bike to raise cash for the repayment of the debts he has incurred on this. I hope he doesn't get tagged by some until this situation is resolved. His account and the bounty he manages here are his only sources of income, according to his confession. Getting his account tagged will destroy it and keep him out of business. That will be double jeopardy.

[taufik123]

-snip-
With that being said, I totally agree and understand if much of the users in this forum would paint my account red. I was too full of myself thinking the funds are safe sitting on a hotwallet. I should have known better than to trade the security of the funds for the convenience of using a hotwallet.

You have full responsibility, so you must do your best for the "SAFETY" of the escrow fund. A fatal error when you use a hot wallet as an escrow fund store and your carelessness does not install additional antivirus. I feel it will be related to malware infiltrating and stealing your hot wallet access password.

Hot Wallet will never be safe if you don't think about additional protection, you really have to learn from the mistakes that are happening now to be more concerned with security.

The users of this forum are smart people, so you won't get red paint as long as you can be responsible and solve these problems to restore your reputation. Take a breath first and calm your mind, then start solving these problems one by one.

[Mr.right85]

It's not the first time seeing a campaign manager losing funds on the forum..

Has there really been others of this nature because, I clearly am unaware but, its bad for sure.
The purpose of escrow is always in the interest of campaign participants and then the manager but in this, it seems the manager got it wrong and for all we know, his words are all we've got and prove of finds being a moved for which, you can't exactly tell what's going on.
If its good enough for the company being served, then it might be okay although, it doesn't make the manager any less responsible for what was kept in his safe keeping.

I won't discard his excuse to have come by some mistakes this round. Its not his first time managing a campaign, bounty and signature so, this time won't be the time that we right off all the goods his done on the forum. 2017 is such a long time to have existed and throw it all away with $5k. Let's be open as we hope for more details on the unfolding case.

[JollyGood]

This comment is not about a particular incident but just a generic personal opinion.

There will always be a debate about whether signature campaign managers should hold the funds or whether an escrow should be used to facilitate the process in order to mitigate any potential scams. Having an escrow does not necessarily mean a scam cannot take place but it adds a further of protection. It can backfire if the escrow decides to steal but there is always a risk no matter which way these matters of business are conducted.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

This comment is not about a particular incident but just a generic personal opinion.

There will always be a debate about whether signature campaign managers should hold the funds or whether an escrow should be used to facilitate the process in order to mitigate any potential scams. Having an escrow does not necessarily mean a scam cannot take place but it adds a further of protection. It can backfire if the escrow decides to steal but there is always a risk no matter which way these matters of business are conducted.

It does not matter if you are a signature campaign manager or a sole escrow provider. If you are holding someone else money, it's your responsibility. You can not make an excuse. If you lose the money then loan from bank and repay but you have to repay. If you do not have the back up money to repay then you should not hold someone else money before anything else.

[yahoo62278]

This comment is not about a particular incident but just a generic personal opinion.

There will always be a debate about whether signature campaign managers should hold the funds or whether an escrow should be used to facilitate the process in order to mitigate any potential scams. Having an escrow does not necessarily mean a scam cannot take place but it adds a further of protection. It can backfire if the escrow decides to steal but there is always a risk no matter which way these matters of business are conducted.

If you do not have the back up money to repay then you should not hold someone else money before anything else.

using this logic, maybe 2 users are qualified to be campaign managers cause I don't think many of the old or new managers are holding thousands these days.

[khaled0111]

It does not matter if you are a signature campaign manager or a sole escrow provider. If you are holding someone else money, it's your responsibility. You can not make an excuse. If you lose the money then loan from bank and repay but you have to repay. If you do not have the back up money to repay then you should not hold someone else money before anything else.

Exactly!
Reputation and trust is not enough to start offering escrow services and what happened to julerz is just an example why it's not. If you are going to escrow a deal then you need to have enough money in reserve to cover the escrowed amount and repay the affected party in case things go wrong.
A camapain manager doesn't necessary need to escrow the campaign funds. He can hire someone else for that job.