Campaign managers acting as Escrow

[avp2306]

That's why forum user should think twice if they really want to become a campaign manager since fucked up moments like this sometimes happen.

Campaign management is not always about getting moneys from the work you've done with certain companies, it has big obligation so make sure you have capabilities to pay on your own pocket when moments like this happen.

In case of Julerz I doubt he can pay that since as he said that amount hacked is to big in their country already.

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[Adbitco]

If i may understand something very important here about an escrow
From above said, escrow is a third party that holds a funds between two parties in other to initiates and carry out a smooth and fair deal.
Now campaign manager has no right to use himself as an escrow provider rather using another person, if he used another to stand as an escrow provider i wouldn't have think all the funds could have been stolen from him. One important thing about bringing an escrow from the project owners is that, if anything happens or fund was stolen even any hacked, it may not get the campaign manager affected rather it's between project owner and escrow provider. So definitely if any hack occurs escrow provider would be liable for the back payment, so in case of julerz12 he would be the one to pay since he also stood as an escrow.
Now to prove innocent he has accepted to pay back, so no tag should be given to him all less he violate of not paying as promised before he could get tagged. 

[Maslate]

Actually, it's not a problem if the campaign manager will act as Escrow if that is the agreement between the company and the campaign manager. That only says that he trusted the campaign manager, on the case of yomix, it cannot be denied that Julerz is a reputable campaign manager and I believe it already happened before that he hold funds for the campaign and there was no problem with it as the campaign runs smoothly.

It's just said that this thing happens, whether it's his fault or due to his negligence, the amount lost is still his responsibility. No need to point fingers whatsoever, just accept the responsibility and pay for the amount that was stolen. In the end, it will boil out to the reputation of the manager, if he will go dark and forget his responsibility, then he will get red tag and will never be a campaign manager again or an escrow if that's part of his services. Imagine, it's the future opportunity that will be lost which will be bigger compared to the amount that was stolen.

[Poker Player]

It's not the first time seeing a campaign manager losing funds on the forum..the latest being [banned mixer] | Bitcoin Mixer | Signature Campaign in less than 4hrs funds gone($4.2k)...

It will not be the first time, but it is not very common.

To Coinomize and YoMix - this is not normal. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw a campaign manager get a sizeable portion of funds and then lost/stole it...

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Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds and get tagged till such a repayment is done?

Yes, he is responsible for these funds. If he loses them he has to bear the consequences, even if it is in this case as it seems due to negligence and not because he stole them himself. At the moment he has one negative tag and two neutral ones reflecting the situation, when not even 24 hours have passed. I think both tags are acceptable. Neutral which will change to negative if he does not pay what he owes or conversely, negative which will change to neutral if he pays.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

using this logic, maybe 2 users are qualified to be campaign managers cause I don't think many of the old or new managers are holding thousands these days.

Has any of them ever provided any proof of fund? I did not see any in an open discussion. I remember Hhampuz paid out of his own pocket, you also did although I can not remember how much was the USD amount at the times. Royce77 also did, not long ago (I think he was the latest campaign manager who was in trouble until julerz12) and as far as I can remember it was something $3,200 or $6,200.

You must remember bitcointalk charity? The mismanagement of fund. Did the escrow ever made it correct? I doubt he had enough to cover it up.

As long as any of them provide any proof of fund, it does not matter if the person is sole escrow provider or a campaign manager who is keeping custody of the marketing budget, it's difficult to tell that they are capable of recovering the lose from their own pocket, it does not matter how reputable, or old you are in the forum. If the accident with julerz12 was not happening then wouldn't we think that he have enough money to resolve if anything happen with the escrow coins? We would.

When someone is opening an escrow service, or managing a campaign with holding marketing budget, depending on their past history we are trusting them. This is a fact.

But these service providers should have the moral obligation that they have the financial solvency to refund or resolve with their clients when anything bad happens with them or their reputation will effect. You are securing someone else money but at the end you are actually giving a false definition of security. That's not supposed to be the meaning escrow.

[Hamza2424]

Since the last day, I am watching all this hack-related stuff and conversations between different managers and other senior members. As I liked what Hhampuz said that now Julerz needs to be strong at this moment as Julerz12 is trustworthy what he needs is time. If he stands out of this and somehow managed to fix this then I think there will be a boost in his reputation. Hope it won't affect any further signature projects. It's a hard time for Julerz12 and I think the community should support him if he proves his innocence for now matter is quite stuck in between.

[_BlackStar]

Actually, it's not a problem if the campaign manager will act as Escrow if that is the agreement between the company and the campaign manager.

Escrow in the sense is third party who is a party that secures funds in transaction between parties A & B. So this third party is tasked with securing funds that have been agreed between parties A & B and usually users who act as third parties can actually trusted. I know some managers can also be an escrow for other transacting parties, but if the manager receives and keeps the campaign budget in his wallet then I don't think he is acting as an escrow. It's a kind of campaign budget entrusted to the manager in advance.

It's just said that this thing happens, whether it's his fault or due to his negligence, the amount lost is still his responsibility.

It is obviously his responsibility to secure all those budgets, and if he makes a mistake that makes all those budgets disappear then he has to cover all those losses. I don't blame julerz12 entirely for what happened, but it was a disgrace in the way it secured the campaign budget. He has to pay for it, of course because it will only affect his reputation as a manager in the short and long term.

[FatFork]

In situations like this, it's important for individuals to understand that being a campaign manager or an escrow carries a lot of responsibility, and they should be fully committed to being transparent and accountable for their actions. This includes taking every precaution to ensure the safety and security of the funds, as well as being proactive in identifying and addressing any issues that may arise. Whether they're just managing a campaign or safeguarding funds, they must be fully accountable for their actions, particularly when it comes to handling other people's money. It's important for them to have a plan in place for how to handle any potential problems or issues that may arise, such as how to return funds to their rightful owners in the event of a hack or other breach of security. It's not enough to just have good intentions, actions and practical measures need to be taken to ensure the safety of the funds, and to show that the responsibilities as a campaign manager or an escrow are being taken seriously.

[_BlackStar]

In situations like this, it's important for individuals to understand that being a campaign manager or an escrow carries a lot of responsibility, and they should be fully committed to being transparent and accountable for their actions. This includes taking every precaution to ensure the safety and security of the funds, as well as being proactive in identifying and addressing any issues that may arise. Whether they're just managing a campaign or safeguarding funds, they must be fully accountable for their actions, particularly when it comes to handling other people's money. It's important for them to have a plan in place for how to handle any potential problems or issues that may arise, such as how to return funds to their rightful owners in the event of a hack or other breach of security. It's not enough to just have good intentions, actions and practical measures need to be taken to ensure the safety of the funds, and to show that the responsibilities as a campaign manager or an escrow are being taken seriously.

Of course, he couldn't just apologize and make an announcement for the loss of funds and continue to maintain good reputation and management. When he received any amount of funds, it meant that he had the responsibility to secure the funds without any problem. Any thing that happens to the funds such as hacking or loss of access to the wallet must always be the responsibility of the owner of the wallet, and in this case it is the manager who also calls himself the escrow.

After all not all managers have an emergency budget to keep their management running smoothly should an issue like this occur, so it's one that managers have to consider how much money they can afford to lose if a hack or such occurs. I mean, it's for security and smooth management.

[Renampun]

That's why forum user should think twice if they really want to become a campaign manager since fucked up moments like this sometimes happen.

Being a campaign manager + escrow service is not easy, so I will never try to be both because I know the risk is far greater than just being a participant in a bounty campaign.

Campaign management is not always about getting moneys from the work you've done with certain companies, it has big obligation so make sure you have capabilities to pay on your own pocket when moments like this happen.

In case of Julerz I doubt he can pay that since as he said that amount hacked is to big in their country already.

The economic conditions of the Philippines are not much different from Indonesia, so $5000 is a huge amount there and here (my country), julerz12 said he would take full responsibility and even intend to sell his 2 motorbikes to repay the lost escrow funds. he is a good person, I hope this incident that happened to him does not make him down and discouraged.

[Bobrox]

Based on other bounty manager experience like @Hhampuz he has back up or recovering money when something bad happen with his current active signature service campaign. Actually several time I saw he pay with his own money due several campaign service not filled fund after end weeks.

Can't expected about @julerz12 wallet was hacked and he loss fund, but for preparing bad thing later need have back up money and campaign can running well without any trouble yet. I hope you can learned more here and be better for next time opportunity become as Bounty Manager campaign, but @julerz12 have build with his reputation early.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

When I 1st started managing I had used an escr9w by the name of masterP.

Oh my, I remember that debacle very well.  Even though it had nothing to do with me, I remember posting a few times in the big thread that was started up about it.  I hadn't been a member of the forum for all that long, so I was naive to all of the scamming taking place and still thought green trust meant you could really trust any member who had it.

I'm not buying the story julerz12 is trying to sell.  He has a lot of positive feedback, but having a large sum of money entrusted to you can be too tempting to some people--just like MasterP, just like those charity scammers, and probably more than a dozen additional examples that can probably be dug up from the bottom of the toilet whence these fuckers come from.  I'm reading a lot of posts in support of julerz12, and everyone is entitled to believe what they want of course, but it seems even YoMix thinks he scammed them.  I happen to agree with that.

[tranthidung]

I'm reading a lot of posts in support of julerz12, and everyone is entitled to believe what they want of course, but it seems even YoMix thinks he scammed them.  I happen to agree with that.

Trusting him because of his past time in the forum but with the accident, nobody can verify it.

Only time can tell and if he repay the lost fund to two projects, he can reclaim his reputation. If he runs away, we will know it soon. Time will tell and currently it is too early to say it is an accident or an intentional scam. I believe we will know the truth soon as if he scammed them, he will not return any cent to two projects and he will not care about negative feedback, trust, flags and pressure from forum members at all.

We can not verify anything because if his computer was actually compromised, perhaps the hacker is using his account and can sign any message from his staked address too.
In the past, kenzawak hacked (again). After two or three times of hack, the user abandoned the forum. Was his account really hacked or something else?

[YOSHIE]

Should an escrow be liable for any loss of such funds and get tagged till such a repayment is done?

My understanding is the case that happened as experienced by: @julerz12, a very large settlement between @YoMix & @[banned mixer], because, they both own the funds and are entrusted with escrow/campaigns to julerz12, that's the main point of the problem, we know what's to lose here is the two of them.

Regarding the payout for campaign participants in this week, i think julerz12 should be responsible for it, even though the fund has been hacked/lost etc, Next, julerz12 can pause the campaign and finalize workaround and continuation with @YoMix & @[banned mixer].

Tags, flags or the like are allowed and legal, but it's better if we hear directly from @YoMix & @[banned mixer], because what's happening right now is based on the carelessness of the escrow users themselves and loss of funds, yes, that's understood, but at this point, the escrow and the owner of the funds have no negative responses except: @YoMix, who knows there is a meeting point in this case, if there is indeed no meeting point, maybe something will happen to julerz12, this is just my opinion, what is certain is that I am not taking sides anywhere, neutral and complete the carelessness that causes loss, not intentional, there are exceptions.....

[julerz12]

I'm not buying the story julerz12 is trying to sell.  He has a lot of positive feedback, but having a large sum of money entrusted to you can be too tempting to some people--just like MasterP, just like those charity scammers, and probably more than a dozen additional examples that can probably be dug up from the bottom of the toilet whence these fuckers come from.  I'm reading a lot of posts in support of julerz12, and everyone is entitled to believe what they want of course, but it seems even YoMix thinks he scammed them.  I happen to agree with that.

Thanks, I appreciate your skepticism and I totally understand why. You don't know me, heck, many of the users of this forum don't. So, I wouldn't be surprised by people doubting me or my "story".
As I have previously stated on the other thread, I accept all consequences and judgment everyone is going to throw at me for what happened, whether it be positive or negative. Tags, flags, and whatnot.
For what it's worth, I've handled and distributed a similar amount of crypto before, some in BTC while mostly in stablecoins and various tokens. You can see the list here, [link].
With that being said, I will continue to strive and work hard to prove that I have nothing but good intentions and work my ass off to pay those debts I now owe the project teams. It will take a while but I promise to make it consistent.

Regarding the payout for campaign participants in this week, i think julerz12 should be responsible for it, even though the fund has been hacked/lost etc, Next, julerz12 can pause the campaign and finalize workaround and continuation with @YoMix & @[banned mixer].

Yo!Mix was immediately paused as soon as I found out that the wallet was drained. It did not even get a chance to run for at least 1 day. The problem is that their representative no longer responds to my messages. I think they're really pissed and rightfully so. I still constantly send them messages tho as I'm waiting for them to send their official BTC address so I can return the $320 in BTC that was paid upfront for my 4-week management fee.

Coinomize will send the rewards themselves for which I am eternally grateful. I'm quite thankful that they still chose to constantly communicate despite what happened.

[Razmirraz]

I don't stand at one side between julerz12 or OP claimed acting about Bounty Manager, but I have been working with this BM at several time on Moonbet Signature Campaign. Almost several time working there not any problem yet about distribution and his campaigns used escrowed.

Before this cases happening, never has delay payment when joining with campaign or signature managed by julerz12, right now lets waiting what happen and which one true about campaign manager acting as escrow or this cases true based on manager loss his escrow money more than $5,000.

Before this loss, julerz12 was known as one of the most trusted managers, unfortunately the loss of $5,000 changed the trust in julerz12 a bit. He said his funds had been stolen, whatever the reason he had to pay all the lost funds for his negligence to restore trust in him.
He is the first party who should be responsible for returning the funds, before the Campaign started he had held the funds for several weeks. This is the risk of a Manager, he never realized this incident would happen to him. For that reason he uses a hot wallet to store campaign funds, that amount of funds should be stored in a safe place (hardware wallet).

This incident will be a lesson for anyone who keeps large funds in a hot wallet, julerz12 will always remember this incident as long as he is alive because this is a lesson that will never be forgotten for him.

[Stalker22]

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With that being said, I will continue to strive and work hard to prove that I have nothing but good intentions and work my ass off to pay those debts I now owe the project teams. It will take a while but I promise to make it consistent.

This is a good sign of maturity on your part, and it is good to see that you understand that it is important to be transparent and accountable for your actions. And, I appreciate you being open to the skepticism and understanding the reasons behind it, given the information that has been shared. People on the forums don't know you and your story, so It is natural for them to have doubts, especially when it comes to issues related to money. I hope you can follow through on your plan and make things right, and good luck with your journey.

[examplens]

after the FTX collapse, Binance and CMC launched reserves as an additional parameter for liquidity exchanges. Maybe we could have a similar condition here, the escrow must have a certain amount of reserves as a guarantee.

You must remember bitcointalk charity? The mismanagement of fund. Did the escrow ever made it correct? I doubt he had enough to cover it up.

I also remember some earlier cases, like master-P then very respected as an escrow service on the forum, or even the case with Lauda, but I'm not sure how it ended. Disputed were some fork coins that she claimed while holding a serious amount in bitcoin as an escrow. I still only remember the accusation but not the epilogue.

[Piesel]

First this is not a question of if the manager should be held accountable for this incident or not but a question of responsibility, ad a campaign manager that such funds are entrusted your care the responsibility of protecting that funds and using them for what is meant for and achieving it 100% satisfaction of the client is very important for any reputable manager.

But this is not the case here, and in this situation even though the manager accepts the responsibility there is little that he can do judging from his many statements because he does not have a possible means of paying back.

I was also disappointed when I read this news yesterday, and this is o e of the early big hack/scam story for the new year 2023.

[julerz12]

after the FTX collapse, Binance and CMC launched reserves as an additional parameter for liquidity exchanges. Maybe we could have a similar condition here, the escrow must have a certain amount of reserves as a guarantee.

Even with such measures, a lot of things could still go wrong that would jeopardize the escrow. For starters, what if they got into an accident, got robed, or worse, died? These may seem far fetched but it can happen.
And if such condition is applied here, as yahoo already mentioned, probably only one or two users in this forum would qualify. If all funds from various bounty campaigns, signature campaigns are poured into them, they could easily be targeted not just online but in real-life as well. Quite scary when you think about it.

I was also disappointed when I read this news yesterday, and this is o e of the early big hack/scam story for the new year 2023.

Yep, but still, nothing beats this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5432665.0