Why Would Anyone Be Against Self Defense?

[BossTrack]

What is the rationale of those who want to make self defence illegal?

I get how a liberal could want social programs, since it's basically more money for them taken from someone else: Immoral but understood, more resources for your, less for someone else. But why is the first reaction of liberals in an altercation to criticise the person reacting to being assaulted and not the person starting the violence?

Do they just assume nothing bad will ever happen to them and thus can't empathize with someone being genuinely victimized? I can't see what they would gain from outlawing self defence. If anything, liberals are more likely to be assaulted since they tend to not workout and are more sensitive - see journos, they aren't even inclined to do petty crime and would benefit from people being sheepish about self defence. They would be the exact type of person a petty criminal WOULD target.

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[BADecker]

Right!!!   Like, their should be gun freedom. Because a young, tiny girl can fend off a bully muscleman if she has a gun.

Muscleman was at the bar without his gun. He was simply have a relaxing drink during some pleasant conversation with some friendly buddies. A couple of small, timid girls, who he had never bothered, snuck up on him and shot him to death... because they were mean, and simply didn't like his looks or smell. The fleet-footed girls got away because his buddies were too drunk to stop them.


There really isn't any peace in this world. Somebody always has a weapon to use against someone else who is napping regarding his own self-defense. Peace in society requires everybody - at least the majority - to be peaceful and respectful in his heart, towards everyone else... or it won't work very well. We see this in the violence done by the Soros-paid-off Antifa and BLM against unsuspecting people of the general public.

We see it in the US-provoked, tiny, timid Ukraine sneaking up on Russia since at least 2014... until Russia couldn't take it any more, and had to fight back to protect herself and her people.

[dimonstration]

Allowing self-defence such as carrying a gun legally will just make people fearsome about making a commotion. People with bad intentions can use self-defence to assault someone legally by just provoking there target. I believe you will not need self-defence if guns are not allowed to carry by anyone except by the police and other military units. US violence increases tremendously when guns become legal in some states. Putting the law into the hand of there own citizens to decide when to shoot or not is really a bad decision. They should just improve there police and monitoring unit to provide a better safety rather than a self-defence mechanism that involves gun.

[BADecker]

Allowing self-defence such as carrying a gun legally will just make people fearsome about making a commotion. People with bad intentions can use self-defence to assault someone legally by just provoking there target. I believe you will not need self-defence if guns are not allowed to carry by anyone except by the police and other military units. US violence increases tremendously when guns become legal in some states. Putting the law into the hand of there own citizens to decide when to shoot or not is really a bad decision. They should just improve there police and monitoring unit to provide a better safety rather than a self-defence mechanism that involves gun.

But how do you defend against the military and the police without a gun? And especially when you meet a rogue or vicious cop?

Musk is using twitter to show us much of the bad, hidden stuff that government has been doing over the last two years. If gun freedom in the US were gone, government would run right over us all, and convert the whole world into outright slavery.

More gun freedom is what keeps us free. In addition, you can find all kinds of times when a good gunner shoots a bad shooter who is on a killing spree, because he illegally obtained a gun.


Is this the answer?
Make robots that can do everything for us that we need done.
Then put all the people of the world into strait jackets.
The robots can feed us, bathe us, wipe our butts, and do everything we need for us.
But we can't hurt anybody or anything... total green earth without our interference.



EDIT: Btw, does the guy who controls the robots have special guns to shoot rogue robots?

[Spaceman1000$]

Well, if the self-defense involved allowing citizens the free use of guns as means of defence against a perceived opponent then we'll be having a society that will be filled with chaos, no matter what, the constitution, the laws,  the police the security the military are supposedly the ones constituted by the constitution to protect lives and properties. it will be a no-brainer for citizens in the name of self-defense be wanting to take arms into the hands.  We can still have a sane society, if we push for more, equity, fairness and justice. Because i believe they laws and the constitution are there to also protect the weak and downtrodden in our society. These are the layed down procedures to get a true library society and not a radicalized society.

[Gyfts]

Most liberals aren't against self defense, the socialist/communist lefties are against self defense of deadly threats because they think private firearm ownership is inherently evil. Of course, they're only against such use of force if it's being used against their own. If it's the government using "self defense" against right wing protestors, they support it. If it's a private citizen defending himself from deranged rioters, they'll call for life imprisonment.

There is no logic behind it so no one can rationalize it.

[coolcoinz]

Allowing self-defence such as carrying a gun legally will just make people fearsome about making a commotion. People with bad intentions can use self-defence to assault someone legally by just provoking there target.

This is a common argument used by gun haters. "What if someone has a gun and I don't and that someone shoots me?" First there's this thing called permits. Gun access should be free, but only when you've passed some tests, weren't jailed for a serious crime, underwent a course that taught you basic gun safety.
When you take your gun out in public you should be aware that someone else may carry and you can get killed. Allowing people to carry changes things because there won't be situations like that in Norway where guns aren't allowed and Breivik kept shooting people for hours because he was the only one with a gun and nobody could fight him. People were hiding, waiting to be slaughtered. This is a good example that banning guns won't stop criminals from obtaining them.

I believe you will not need self-defence if guns are not allowed to carry by anyone except by the police and other military units.

What's the response time of the police in your area? I live about 3km from the nearest town and it takes a minimum of 5 minutes before the police can arrive at my house. Usually it's 10 (checked).
Imagine sitting there for 10 minutes, waiting for the police, while the robbers steal your shit. They could literally rape your wife and kill you both before the police arrives. I'd rather have a gun.

[Zlantann]

What is the rationale of those who want to make self defence illegal?

I get how a liberal could want social programs, since it's basically more money for them taken from someone else: Immoral but understood, more resources for your, less for someone else. But why is the first reaction of liberals in an altercation to criticise the person reacting to being assaulted and not the person starting the violence?

Do they just assume nothing bad will ever happen to them and thus can't empathize with someone being genuinely victimized? I can't see what they would gain from outlawing self defence. If anything, liberals are more likely to be assaulted since they tend to not workout and are more sensitive - see journos, they aren't even inclined to do petty crime and would benefit from people being sheepish about self defence. They would be the exact type of person a petty criminal WOULD target.

Regarding self defense, I don't have any strong position. I hear news from America where little children as little as six shoot their parents or classmates because they have access to guns. The US has the highest rate of mass shootings carried out by sometimes innocent teenagers just because they have access to firearms. In my country, we don't have such experiences because gun ownership is strictly regulated.

But there is a need for arms in self-defense. The world is going mad and sometimes we need these guns to protect ourselves from criminals. In my area kidnapping would reduce if people are allowed to carry arms.

But it might be good to increase the age of legal gun ownership and some sophisticated hand gone or riffles should be restricted.

[BADecker]

 

[o48o]

Self defence ≠ open carry automatic weapons

But how do you defend against the military and the police without a gun? And especially when you meet a rogue or vicious cop?
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Military or police would be pretty lame if you could make them back down if you just had a gun. And good luck getting in a gunfight with a police and explaining how that was a fault of the cop.
I can see zero changes that going your way. In a best outcome you would just be brushed off as a person who did suicide by cop. But i totally understand the conspiratard fantasy of being in a control or a hero.

And people in US are asking why they have a gun problem. It's because of attitude like yours. You don't have a gun problem in countries where they are only used for hunting.

[Gozie51]

What is the rationale of those who want to make self defence illegal?

Considering this on self defence and the way the court look at it. To this I think some people will consider the measure of defense against the strength of attack. Like if it is assault done on someone with mere plastic chair and the defender goes on to use lethal or gun to retaliate, this is not to be considered as self defense. Moreover if the attacker dies from the lethal weapon of the defender, it becomes a crime. I think this is the rationale behind the illegality of self defense. It should be measure for measure and not taking the opportunity to cause bodily harm while the attacker's effect wouldn't inflict such injury.

[BADecker]

Self defence ≠ open carry automatic weapons

But how do you defend against the military and the police without a gun? And especially when you meet a rogue or vicious cop?
-cut-

Military or police would be pretty lame if you could make them back down if you just had a gun. And good luck getting in a gunfight with a police and explaining how that was a fault of the cop.
I can see zero changes that going your way. In a best outcome you would just be brushed off as a person who did suicide by cop. But i totally understand the conspiratard fantasy of being in a control or a hero.

And people in US are asking why they have a gun problem. It's because of attitude like yours. You don't have a gun problem in countries where they are only used for hunting.

Heard of guerrilla warfare? Consider the IRA or the Taliban (who seem to have won, btw.). Guns in the hands of the people. If ALL the people had carried guns, the IRA would have won, and the Taliban wouldn't have.

Gun freedom in one major country of the world is something that sets the whole world in a certain mindset. Whatever country you are from, there will be a lot of people who understand the idea of gun self-protection. And it is this freedom ideal that government leaders realize exists among their people, and so they act with restraint. That is the second major reason why countries with no gun freedom have real freedom.
The major reason, of course, is that government people can't get rich off their people if the people are always living in fear. Fearful people don't work with enthusiasm. So, government plays the game of making them think they are free, while enslaving them as much as they can for the wealth they will produce that can be taxed.

Gun freedom in one major country produces the world mindset of freedom. It's why the US is the major country in the world, and Britain is second. Not that Britain has gun freedom now. But that when they did, they became powerful, even though their strength is wearing off.

America's gun problem doesn't come from people having guns. It comes from cowardly Americans not exercising their gun rights.



Think of it the other way. If everybody were required to carry at least a .38 in public (except the kids, of course), all the people would respect each other, because nobody wants a gun battle. Everybody would know that if he started a gun battle - or a shooting spree - he would be dead. Gun problems would evaporate because problem makers would be dead. People would be awake.

[o48o]

-cut-
America's gun problem doesn't come from people having guns. It comes from cowardly Americans not exercising their gun rights.
-cut-

That's some mental acrobatics. Please tell me again why there are so much gun violence in US because there are not enough guns.
And while you are on it, try to explain why it's low in places that have strict gun control laws.

Places that need guerilla warfare, problem wasn't the guns. Problems are way more complex but i understand that you want to simplify complex issues.

And you can pretty much compare US right wing gun nuts to taliban. They tend to have strong religious views, don't respect laws and strong views about "morals" while also they like to restrict freedom of women.

US is so freakishly funny about their concept of "freedom" that basically only comes back to guns. With a 2 party system and anything but free healthcare, when they have potential for so much more.

[BADecker]

-cut-
America's gun problem doesn't come from people having guns. It comes from cowardly Americans not exercising their gun rights.
-cut-

That's some mental acrobatics. Please tell me again why there are so much gun violence in US because there are not enough guns.
And while you are on it, try to explain why it's low in places that have strict gun control laws.

Places that need guerilla warfare, problem wasn't the guns. Problems are way more complex but i understand that you want to simplify complex issues.

And you can pretty much compare US right wing gun nuts to taliban. They tend to have strong religious views, don't respect laws and strong views about "morals" while also they like to restrict freedom of women.

US is so freakishly funny about their concept of "freedom" that basically only comes back to guns. With a 2 party system and anything but free healthcare, when they have potential for so much more.

Okay, I'll say it a different way. If everybody had guns in the public, how long would a mass shooter last? Not long. And there wouldn't be many mass shooters, because to be a successful mass shooter, one needs to find a place where he will last long enough to do his mass shooting. Most will chicken out before attempting the job... if they know that they will be shot down almost immediately. Whatever principle in their life dictates to them that they have to go on a killing spree, would also show them that they wouldn't be successful. But they want success, in this thing if nothing else.

So, what would they do? Some of them would still try, if they had a personal death wish along with it. Others would just commit suicide. And it's a shame that there are people who have mental problems like that. But they would be gone, and society would be better without them.

Without guns, there wouldn't be freedom. Why? Because government still has guns. And government would figure out ways and reasons to take freedom away from the people. How do we know? Look what the Taliban has done to their country. And in the US, look at the many laws the politicians make, designed to take away gun freedom, even though foundational US law is that we can have guns (2nd Amendment). They want to enslave us.

In the US, look at how far it has gone already with government. People think that their President is a dictator - almost a king. If he says they should get a Covid vaxx that will destroy their lives, they do it just to obey him... rather than checking the data to see if it is correct. It's a good thing that a bunch of people recognize the benefits of keeping guns.

[yeosaga]

The US is made up of EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. There are going to be some disagreements that people need firearms to protect themselves with this fact.

[BADecker]

The State of Florida seems to be moving in the right direction with the gun rights thing. Most of gun-control is some form of infringement on the 2nd Amendment gun rights which demands no infringement in its wording -

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Free state of Florida moves to ban tracking of firearms, ammo purchases because it’s no one’s business


https://www.naturalnews.com/2023-01-13-florida-moves-to-ban-tracking-of-firearms-ammo.html
Officials in the “free state” of Florida are moving to bar the tracking of gun and ammunition purchases because they say such information isn’t relevant to anything except to provide it to the government at some point, which is unnecessary and none of Uncle Sam’s business.

The move would block state financial institutions from implementing firearms and ammunition sales tracking codes, with officials arguing that doing so amounts to an unconstitutional infringement on the Second Amendment.

The three state officials, all of who are, unsurprisingly, Republicans, touted the “Florida Arms and Ammo Act,” a first-in-the-country policy proposal to ban the tracking of sales of guns and ammo through merchant category codes.

The proposal was introduced by Florida Commissioner of Agriculture Wilton Simpson, along with state Sen. Danny Burgess and state Rep. John Snyder, who argued that the codes would create something of a gun and ammunition registry for Florida residents, The Epoch Times reported this week.

“We are all blessed to live in the free state of Florida where our Second Amendment rights are valued and protected, but Democrats in Washington continue to try to chip away at these rights—and we must stay vigilant,”  Simpson, a former state Senate president who was sworn in recently as the state’s agriculture commissioner, noted in a statement.

The outlet reported further:

Gun-control advocates and Democrat lawmakers pushed for the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) to recently adopt new merchant category codes that can be used to identify retail sales of firearms and ammunition when made by credit card.

A coalition of national gun-control groups, including Guns Down America, Giffords, Brady, and New Yorkers Against Gun Violence, issued a joint statement applauding the new tracking codes when the ISO approved their creation in September 2022.
...

[Ultegra134]

Luckily, in the USA, at least from what I've heard, the concept of self-defense is pretty lenient; if an intruder is inside your house and you proceed to hurt him or kill him in the process, you won't be prosecuted at least.

In Greece, however, if someone enters your house with a weapon and you hurt him, you will face criminal charges and go through court. Chances are that you'll be cleared of any charges, but the trial may take years, and it's a costly procedure in both time and money. I can't understand why someone would have the desire to render self-defense illegal.

[o48o]

Okay, I'll say it a different way. If everybody had guns in the public, how long would a mass shooter last? Not long. And there wouldn't be many mass shooters, because to be a successful mass shooter, one needs to find a place where he will last long enough to do his mass shooting.
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Yeah, no free access to mental healthcare and give everyone guns and ammo and watch them protect each other from mass shooters. That's an insane approach. You can't explain the high numbers of gun violence in your country so you need to use arguments where somehow more guns mystically solves the gun problem. It's as idiotic as saying that if everyone would just became police there wouldn't be any criminals left.

And talking about enslavement because not every mental patient maybe shouldn't hold automatic weapons is just insulting to actual slaves.

[boyptc]

In Greece, however, if someone enters your house with a weapon and you hurt him, you will face criminal charges and go through court. Chances are that you'll be cleared of any charges, but the trial may take years, and it's a costly procedure in both time and money. I can't understand why someone would have the desire to render self-defense illegal.

This isn't just for Greece, in some other countries, you'll really be put into court for killing the intruder and anyone who's got into your house that threatened you and your family's safety.

That's how f***ed up the system for many countries. There goes the human rights advocates and activitists that are only just there to criticize the victim and not the suspects.

While politicians are living in an electric fence mansion without any threat so they don't experience such.

[BADecker]

Okay, I'll say it a different way. If everybody had guns in the public, how long would a mass shooter last? Not long. And there wouldn't be many mass shooters, because to be a successful mass shooter, one needs to find a place where he will last long enough to do his mass shooting.
-cut-

Yeah, no free access to mental healthcare and give everyone guns and ammo and watch them protect each other from mass shooters. That's an insane approach. You can't explain the high numbers of gun violence in your country so you need to use arguments where somehow more guns mystically solves the gun problem. It's as idiotic as saying that if everyone would just became police there wouldn't be any criminals left.

And talking about enslavement because not every mental patient maybe shouldn't hold automatic weapons is just insulting to actual slaves.

On, quit trying to be a loser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsVCHE7ayPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gCFOtaZPo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNcFs-JwOQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzb7SLsFwtE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugyXiubzf7o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTiLkkMCMQ4