Provably fair games are not fair

[raybucks]

I am playing provably fair games for 1 year on sites like stake , bc game etc,
How provably fair games works :
Serverseed: this is provided by the casino itself;
Clientseed: this is provided by the browser you’re playing on;
Nonce: with each new hand, this variable increases by one so you can keep track of which hand is which by the end of the session.
Before you start you will get a hash of the serverseed, which is encrypted. This hash contains the entire game you’re about to play, so the casino cannot change it no matter what. Also, because it comes to you in an encrypted code, you yourself cannot calculate any results for the hands you’re about to play.

So you noticed something: in these type of games our client seed also used,
people think that provably fair means everything is random , but no ,random in numbers but not in streaks
Many people play to capture 100x 1000x , if we play on a fixed bet amount the probability is it will hit 100x in 100spins or more or less but around 100 spins when played on a fixed bet

and assume you started betting on a fixed bet and you completed 80 bets to capture 100x ,  it's obvious it will hit in next 40 or less spins
but when you increase your bet even 1 % of your previous bet , then it will take another 100 spins to hit 100x

Means capturing 100x is easy when played on a fixed bet amount
and in constantly changing bet amount, is hard to capture 100x it can take upto 200 300 spins

the algorithm count our nonce and use client seed to determine this player is winning or losing when player is losing then the client seed also sent to server that this player is losing so you will definetly win 2, 3 times in a row.

after winning. client seed tell to server that this player is winning then you will notice you are losing more  then previous games after winning sometimes
This is my experience from these games i know I am bad to teach but i tested many times .

you will always lose when you play provably fair games too long

I played provably fair games 1 year and i mostly losed so i am moving to live casino

My english is bad and it's hard for me to make you understand ,

[bitbollo]

Clientseed: this is provided by the browser you’re playing on;

this can be changed by players!

if we play on a fixed bet amount the probability is it will hit 100x in 100spins or more or less but around 100 spins when played on a fixed bet

no absolutely.
you can hit x100 also after 2000 games or maybe 3000. and it would be pretty fine.
These statistics should be seen as "infinite". It means that maybe the ratio (more or less) of win x100 could be seen after 1milion of bet. Meanwhile, on the contrary, you can have also a better outcome.
It's just an indicator of the real odds... Anyway remember there is always RTP /House edge, so a slight percentage is always on favor of casino/house.

Means capturing 100x is easy when played on a fixed bet amount
and in constantly changing bet amount, is hard to capture 100x it can take upto 200 300 spins

the same apply here. the stake/amount you're using doesn't change the probability outcome.

client seed tell to server that this player is winning then you will notice you are losing more  then previous games after winning sometimes

No. you can change even at each roll your seed (client seed)... your is a complete bad assumption
Because 1 seed is not communicating anything, 2 you can always change your seed after each game and verify the previous game.

[raybucks]

Clientseed: this is provided by the browser you’re playing on;

this can be changed by players!

if we play on a fixed bet amount the probability is it will hit 100x in 100spins or more or less but around 100 spins when played on a fixed bet

no absolutely.
you can hit x100 also after 2000 games or maybe 3000. and it would be pretty fine.
These statistics should be seen as "infinite". It means that maybe the ratio (more or less) of win x100 could be seen after 1milion of bet. Meanwhile, on the contrary, you can have also a better outcome.
It's just an indicator of the real odds... Anyway remember there is always RTP /House edge, so a slight percentage is always on favor of casino/house.

Means capturing 100x is easy when played on a fixed bet amount
and in constantly changing bet amount, is hard to capture 100x it can take upto 200 300 spins

the same apply here. the stake/amount you're using doesn't change the probability outcome.

client seed tell to server that this player is winning then you will notice you are losing more  then previous games after winning sometimes

No. you can change even at each roll your seed (client seed)... your is a complete bad assumption
Because 1 seed is not communicating anything, 2 you can always change your seed after each game and verify the previous game.

I experimented many times ,
Changing client seed will reset everything ,

and

Let , I am playing keno , you can experiment this,
ok , so game is provably fair ,  
I selected 10 keno number and I faced a long losing streak of 20 then It will always hit when by bet is initial amount or less than initial when i started playing keno
After long losing streak of 20 When i incresed the bet by only a few percent I will continue losing streak
I don't know this assumptiom is right or not
But i experimented 6 months
If you don't believe you can experiment i guarantee you will also face this type of fairness

[klidex]

In fact, if we play on the most trusted and most popular casino sites, all the games are the same, there's no such thing as fair or unfair.
If Tita says it's fair, it's because we won and the dealer lost, was that fair for the dealer, and conversely, we can say it's unfair, if we lose and the dealer wins, is that fair for those of us who only bet and play.
So my personal response to the question you made is that all games are the same.
Fair or unfair depends on our own mindset not about the problem of the game or even the casino site.
Except if we play at a casino which is indeed a scam and fraud often occurs in it, then it can be said that it is unfair. However, the fault is not entirely with the casino or the players, but we are also wrong for choosing to play at a casino that cannot be relied on and trusted.

[OgNasty]

This is a problem with a lot of "provably fair" games I see.  A lot of the time the instructions of how to prove that it's fair are so confusing that people either can't determine whether it's provably fair or not, or they just take the casino's word for it.  I think maybe the casinos need to get together and come up with some standards so that provably fair games can easily be determined as provably fair without too much mental strain.  It would also be great if players voted with their money that provably fair games are what they want to play when it comes time for them to gamble.

[bitbollo]

...

Client seed changed, will change client seed

about your KENO example, it's something casual if you win or not after some games.
statistically these games have some probability (called also RTP and so on).
in the long terms you will see this probability. if you take a small range of your bets this can't count.

please note this is the basis of "sampling""statistical sampling".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)
if you're missing such kind of argument trust me it's completely a waste of time continue this discussion.

Like spinning a coin, you can hit 100 times head...!!!
but if you play around "infinite" game the number of head and tails will be around the same (50%)!

[Casdinyard]

This is a problem with a lot of "provably fair" games I see.  A lot of the time the instructions of how to prove that it's fair are so confusing that people either can't determine whether it's provably fair or not, or they just take the casino's word for it.  I think maybe the casinos need to get together and come up with some standards so that provably fair games can easily be determined as provably fair without too much mental strain.  It would also be great if players voted with their money that provably fair games are what they want to play when it comes time for them to gamble.

Exactly. Anyone with half a mind to know more about how these games work will bring it to themselves to research about what makes these games provably fair but for the majority, that is not the case. If a movement that allows less experienced players to be informed of what part of the game makes it provably fair and why, I think it will do the industry a big solid. Then again casinos also earn cash from belligerent users so this is a farfetched dream.

...

Client seed changed, will change client seed

about your KENO example, it's something casual if you win or not after some games.
statistically these games have some probability (called also RTP and so on).
in the long terms you will see this probability. if you take a small range of your bets this can't count.

please note this is the basis of "sampling""statistical sampling".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)
if you're missing such kind of argument trust me it's completely a waste of time continue this discussion.

Like spinning a coin, you can hit 100 times head...!!!
but if you play around "infinite" game the number of head and tails will be around the same (50%)!

Point taken. Streaks mean nothing for a game that is randomized, although honestly true random doesn't exist in this world. I do get OP's sentiments but it mostly comes from a lack of information, he just knows something is wrong and being a gambler who lost a lot of money on these provably fair games, he'd of course blame it on the house.

[pixie85]

It would also be great if players voted with their money that provably fair games are what they want to play when it comes time for them to gamble.

Do you know a better alternative?

I agree that the current system is confusing, especially to new users. The verification also takes time. Nobody is going to do that during a fast-paced game like dice where you click and get an instant result but provably fair has become an industry standard. Nowadays when you don't use it you look suspicious.

I played provably fair games 1 year and i mostly losed so i am moving to live casino

How did that work out for you? Did your luck turn 180 degrees?

[madnessteat]

It seems to me that today few people are interested in providing the facts of fair play in casinos because they do not want to spend time on it.

Personally, I have never checked how fair the game is and I gamble on trust in the casino. If I were to sit and check the honesty of the game, it would be more of a detective's game than a gambling game for fun.

[uneng]

I played provably fair games 1 year and i mostly losed so i am moving to live casino

You don't lose because games aren't provably fair, you lose because there is a house edge, a casino's advantage over gamblers, which stays around 1%-2%. You can move yourself to live casinos, but it doesn't mean you are going to profit there, and actually, since games from live casinos aren't provably fair, it's much more likely to be cheated when playing there.

I selected 10 keno number and I faced a long losing streak of 20 then It will always hit when by bet is initial amount or less than initial when i started playing keno
After long losing streak of 20 When i incresed the bet by only a few percent I will continue losing streak

Well, that is still a possibility when gambling. I've already played with 50% winning chance and lost, so I raised it to 60%, 70%, 80% and still lost in a row. But there is nothing wrong with this, as we aren't playing with 100% winning chance...

[alegotardo]

This is my experience from these games i know I am bad to teach but i tested many times .

you will always lose when you play provably fair games too long

I played provably fair games 1 year and i mostly losed so i am moving to live casino

My english is bad and it's hard for me to make you understand ,

I believe there are many fraudulent sites, but I trust the ones that have the most reputation and have been around for years.
I doubt these sites would risk their reputation and years of work by robbing some players.
All casinos already make a lot of money just by having the odds of winning increased for the house and decreased for the player. So they don't need to steal.
Just do a good job and grow your trust and user base more and more.

But, what has already been said here and which I fully agree:
There should be a single standard for verifying bets that is publicly simpler to verify.
It would be great if there was some external platform, neutral to the websites, where it was possible to check all the bets by a simple method, be it an API or copy and paste historical game plays.

[raybucks]

I played provably fair games 1 year and i mostly losed so i am moving to live casino

You don't lose because games aren't provably fair, you lose because there is a house edge, a casino's advantage over gamblers, which stays around 1%-2%. You can move yourself to live casinos, but it doesn't mean you are going to profit there, and actually, since games from live casinos aren't provably fair, it's much more likely to be cheated when playing there.

I selected 10 keno number and I faced a long losing streak of 20 then It will always hit when by bet is initial amount or less than initial when i started playing keno
After long losing streak of 20 When i incresed the bet by only a few percent I will continue losing streak

Well, that is still a possibility when gambling. I've already played with 50% winning chance and lost, so I raised it to 60%, 70%, 80% and still lost in a row. But there is nothing wrong with this, as we aren't playing with 100% winning chance...

you are not understanding, let me try again
see,
I am at a losing streak of 10 on 2x odds ,ok.
In offline casino the dealer nothing can do if we double triple our money after a losing streak he need to always pay our winning amount  ,
but in online games and also provably fair games
when we double or increase our bet the server determines by client seed that we increased our bet then the server will send server seed by low odds,

totally I am saying that we cannot win at initial try win but very less people win on first or starting try
More we wager the client seed goes to server that the player is losed to many times with very less nonce,
then the server send high odd seed , to make you win once or 2 3 times
all works 3 client seed server seed nonce works together , to make you 50-50 or anything the server decide ,

when we win on day 1 , it will take the winning amount from your next day of playing ,
and then your emotions works to make you lose

[carlfebz2]

This is my experience from these games i know I am bad to teach but i tested many times .

you will always lose when you play provably fair games too long

I played provably fair games 1 year and i mostly losed so i am moving to live casino

My english is bad and it's hard for me to make you understand ,

I believe there are many fraudulent sites, but I trust the ones that have the most reputation and have been around for years.
I doubt these sites would risk their reputation and years of work by robbing some players.
All casinos already make a lot of money just by having the odds of winning increased for the house and decreased for the player. So they don't need to steal.
Just do a good job and grow your trust and user base more and more.

But, what has already been said here and which I fully agree:
There should be a single standard for verifying bets that is publicly simpler to verify.
It would be great if there was some external platform, neutral to the websites, where it was possible to check all the bets by a simple method, be it an API or copy and paste historical game plays.

If it wasnt that fair then lots of people wont be touching up these platforms or sites.They wont really be that ending up to be popular or known if they arent that being honest.It is really just that part of reality

that house do always win in the end and this is where people do most commonly tell that they had been cheated or the site wasnt fair just because they have lost their bankroll
for some time.Its true though that other games cant really be personally be verified but they cant just run a business that would really be just giving out easy profits into its players.

[Unsoldier]

If casino games gave a constant gain for the gambler, then the casino would go bankrupt. After all, gamblers would only play this game and they would rob the casino.
All games are the same and the winning percentage for the games is about the same. The name "provably fair games" is just a marketing ploy. Marketers have made it so that the gambler believes in his winnings.

[Cryptomultiplier]

If you really understand the meaning of provably fair, then you should realise that it just a game that you can have evidence of losses or wins of and of which the outcomes can be proved.
When a game is provably fair, it means that an online casino can’t cheat a player because the outcome of the game is provable, transparent and verifiable.


https://www.igaminggroup.com/blockgaming/provably-fair-games/#:~:text=It%20means%20that%20an%20online,is%20provable%2C%20transparent%20and%20verifiable.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

To be honest, I can really relate to OP's experience or should I call it experiment, ive played dice, played keno and some games as such, and they all tend to follow the same pattern, and the pattern is exactly as OP described it.
I will have some loss streaks and after some time, I will start winning, and after a winning streak of 5 or 6 times, another long loss streak will hit and wipe out all the profit I made in the initial winning streaks, and sometimes, this loss streak continues until my bankroll is completely burnt out.
Ive sometimes wondered why it has to be so if the game was indeed provably fair? it seems to know when a gambler is winning and when a gambler is loosing, it finds a way to give you some winnings to encourage you to keep playing, while little by little, you will be losing until your whole money is gone.

[bitcampaign]

i almost never check fair play at casino i know playing casino depends on luck maybe you play not at your lucky time logically also casino also want money and will not give free money to all their gamblers , after all game is fair is just a slogan

[Shinpako09]

Whether you played provably fair games or live casino, you'll end up with the same outcome, be it traditional or online casino. Always remember, the house always wins. So, don't expect too high when you play. That's why they are saying only play what you can afford to lose. The gambling industry won't grow like we had today if players always win.

Your expectation won't always be going to happened so you better stay away from casinos if you are trying to make a fortune or try sports betting. Your winning will depend on the team/athlete, etc. That way, the house/system doesn't have any control like what you're believing.

[pawanjain]

I think OP is getting it wrong. There are two things that I want to highlight.

1. OP mentioned that the algorithm take client seed, server seed and nonce only and so why would changing the bet amount would decrease the probability of hitting 100x. It should ideally stay the same whether or not the bet amount is changed.

2. Even if you have played the 100 bets its not absolutely mandatory that you would hit 100x in 100 bets. Its just a probability. You can also not hit 100x and then hit 100x twice in the next 10 bets.

Anything is possible.

[danherbias07]

I think OP is getting it wrong. There are two things that I want to highlight.

1. OP mentioned that the algorithm take client seed, server seed and nonce only and so why would changing the bet amount would decrease the probability of hitting 100x. It should ideally stay the same whether or not the bet amount is changed.

2. Even if you have played the 100 bets its not absolutely mandatory that you would hit 100x in 100 bets. Its just a probability. You can also not hit 100x and then hit 100x twice in the next 10 bets.

Anything is possible.

I agree. I tested this before playing dice. 10 bets per seed. Results are 4/10, 3/10,7/10,6/10. Provably fair is just the randomness of your game. By doing that I understood how it works. There's no such thing as a lucky seed too. Sometimes one seed could give you a good initial win streak but as it goes on you will feel the changes in the results.
So, you could keep on changing those seeds but soon it will try to balance the outcome because some seeds do give you profits in the long run.
But short-term gamblers will try to get a new seed so it resets.