Argentina to Pressure Citizens on Declaring Their Crypto

[zasad@]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

[1715234841]

1715234841

[1715234841]

1715234841

[avikz]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

[Poker Player]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

Yes, for Argentina I am surprised by the low rate. Now, once they control which people have cryptocurrencies, don't be surprised by later taxes or confiscation attempts.

I understand that there will be people who will declare them out of fear, but those who do not declare them and take the minimum precautions will not be caught. Now, they will have to be careful if they want to spend or convert to fiat in Argentina, but I imagine that more than one Argentine has cryptocurrencies as an insurance or a plan b, and they can emigrate with them.

[zasad@]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

I think these are false promises from the government. Argentina is not a rich country and taxes on cryptocurrencies will increase gradually, as happened in many countries. In Argentina, there is a large shadow market for cryptocurrencies, because there are 2 dollar rates: official and shadow.

[Ozero]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

Interestingly, all cryptocurrencies held by citizens are subject to declaration, and this array will be taxed in the future. However, we have quite a few tokens in our wallets that have no value and are not traded anywhere. In any case, this may be at the time of filing the declaration. How will the tax be calculated and collected in this case?
But in general, a tax of 1.5 to 2.5 percent of their price is very good. In this case, it is better to pay it and not worry in the future.

[eaLiTy]

~
Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

It is a fair tax rate at this moment unlike some stupid governments charging 30% and on top of that a 1% cess on every transaction. once you declare the assets and if they raise the tax tab then the government has all the declared asset details and hopefully it is not a trap  .
You can expect these sort of news around the globe as the government are planning to regulate the space and they would not want to loose on their prized possession in the form of tax .

[pawel7777]

...

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

That's not a silver lining at all. Those taxes are not the same. India's 30% is a tax on profit, as high as it is, you only pay that if you made a profit, so you can still enjoy the remaining 70%.
Argentina's tax is way worse, because it's a tax on holdings. Imagine buying BTC at say $60k (with the money you've already paid your income tax on), making 70% loss and than your government reaching for the 1%-2.5% (or even 10%) of whatever's left. And what's worse, it's not said whether it's some sort of one-time charge, so presumably it is a regular tax, which you'd be expected to pay every year. That's pretty sick.

If there's any silver lining - it's the fact that it's only payable by a "high earners" (however is that defined). Standard move to prevent people from raising up and revolt. Rich (but not super-wealthy or influential people) have always been considered a fair game for governments. They don't have enough voting power, they're not numerous enough to riot and general population don't like them too much.

[virasog]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

My first question: Is crypto legal in Argentina?  Because without legalization, the government have no rights to ask people about their crypto holding.
Also did they mention that if you hide your crypto and later you found guilty of having crypto assets, what consequences will you face?

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

So, more the money you declare in voluntary forum, the lesser the tax you will have to give. However, there is some ambiguity in it. At which value of bitcoin / crypto the tax will be calculated? Suppose a person bought bitcoin at 50,000$ and now it's worth 20,000$, so he will pay tax according to the current price?

[pawel7777]

...
My first question: Is crypto legal in Argentina?  Because without legalization, the government have no rights to ask people about their crypto holding.
...

Some of you guys have a distorted view of legality. For something to be "legal" it doesn't have to be declared legal - it's enough that it's not forbidden by law.
Holding bitcoins was never illegal in Argentina, therefore it cannot be "legalized"
legalisation - the action of making something that was previously illegal permissible by law.

...At which value of bitcoin / crypto the tax will be calculated?...

You'd declare it at "Fair Value", i.e. at the market value on at the date the declaration was made.

The problem would be for some of the lesser popular shitcoins with tiny market caps where prices can differ significantly between different exchanges.

[rat03gopoh]

The 1.5% to 2.5% tax rate isn't too pressing to sustain the assumption that this is just a "voluntary" statement on Argentines. But never know what the next government plans regarding taxes if all residents have declared their assets.

At which value of bitcoin / crypto the tax will be calculated? Suppose a person bought bitcoin at 50,000$ and now it's worth 20,000$, so he will pay tax according to the current price?

If they follow the current Argentinian tax rules where crypto is still grouped under the property category in general, "The losses arising from transactions with digital currencies are considered ''special losses'' and cannot be offset against income from any other source."^[1]. So, what I understand, losses (after realized) won't be taxed.

1. https://cointext.com/cryptocurrency-tax-map/argentina/

[zasad@]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

My first question: Is crypto legal in Argentina?  Because without legalization, the government have no rights to ask people about their crypto holding.
Also did they mention that if you hide your crypto and later you found guilty of having crypto assets, what consequences will you face?

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

So, more the money you declare in voluntary forum, the lesser the tax you will have to give. However, there is some ambiguity in it. At which value of bitcoin / crypto the tax will be calculated? Suppose a person bought bitcoin at 50,000$ and now it's worth 20,000$, so he will pay tax according to the current price?

Argentina is considered a poor country, they do not have such a strong tax police as in the United States, so most crypto operations will continue to work in the shadow sector.
When the value of a cryptocurrency is difficult to determine due to the lack of documents, then you need to study the rules for filling out a declaration in order to declare assets at the right price and at the right time, if necessary.

[bittraffic]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

Yes, for Argentina I am surprised by the low rate. Now, once they control which people have cryptocurrencies, don't be surprised by later taxes or confiscation attempts.

I understand that there will be people who will declare them out of fear, but those who do not declare them and take the minimum precautions will not be caught. Now, they will have to be careful if they want to spend or convert to fiat in Argentina, but I imagine that more than one Argentine has cryptocurrencies as an insurance or a plan b, and they can emigrate with them.

This is very possible. There was a time in history when Gold are confiscated by the government so they can have funds. It's possible that they are just making crypto investors declare and then later on the assets are to be confiscated.

You can't just trust a government from the beginning had already contradicted its own words. This is not going to end well because just pressuring crypto holders might just make them hide what they hold and in that case, the government will outlaw crypto assets.

[zasad@]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

So the government is contradicting its own statement. Saying the declaration will be voluntary and the same time making provisions for investigation if someone is not declaring the crypto assets. That's hilarious!

The only silver lining here is the tax rate. 1.5% to 2.5% is much much lower than the global standard. Imagine, India has a tax rate of 30% on crypto assets.

Yes, for Argentina I am surprised by the low rate. Now, once they control which people have cryptocurrencies, don't be surprised by later taxes or confiscation attempts.

I understand that there will be people who will declare them out of fear, but those who do not declare them and take the minimum precautions will not be caught. Now, they will have to be careful if they want to spend or convert to fiat in Argentina, but I imagine that more than one Argentine has cryptocurrencies as an insurance or a plan b, and they can emigrate with them.

This is very possible. There was a time in history when Gold are confiscated by the government so they can have funds. It's possible that they are just making crypto investors declare and then later on the assets are to be confiscated.

You can't just trust a government from the beginning had already contradicted its own words. This is not going to end well because just pressuring crypto holders might just make them hide what they hold and in that case, the government will outlaw crypto assets.

Argentina doesn't even have an army. They have a small number of soldiers to guard the president and state institutions, but they do not have the power to confiscate cryptocurrencies.
In my country, ordinary people do not declare their cryptocurrency because it is not safe. The more cryptocurrencies you declare, the more questions you will have from the tax authorities.

[uneng]

Argentina doesn't even have an army. They have a small number of soldiers to guard the president and state institutions, but they do not have the power to confiscate cryptocurrencies.

Every governments can seize cryptocurrencies if they wish, it's simple like creating the bill above which will "voluntarily" force citizens to declare their holdings and pay 1,5%-2,5% tax on profits to the state. Another bill can be passed raising taxes or seizing crypto from argentinians, under the sentence of paying fines or going to the jail. Although it's unlikely, because most governments don't want to pass this personal image to the rest of the world, it's possible.

[takuma sato]

Argentina is an hyperinflationary clusterfuck. If there is a place to never declare your Bitcoin is in places like Argentina. The speed at which your money loses value is insane in there. It's not as bad as in Venezuela but it's already so bad that it doesn't matter. Just save as much as possible because there is not an investment but a necessity. As more currencies experience this the value of Bitcoin will go up.

[zasad@]

Argentina doesn't even have an army. They have a small number of soldiers to guard the president and state institutions, but they do not have the power to confiscate cryptocurrencies.

Every governments can seize cryptocurrencies if they wish, it's simple like creating the bill above which will "voluntarily" force citizens to declare their holdings and pay 1,5%-2,5% tax on profits to the state. Another bill can be passed raising taxes or seizing crypto from argentinians, under the sentence of paying fines or going to the jail. Although it's unlikely, because most governments don't want to pass this personal image to the rest of the world, it's possible.

The law cannot force citizens to declare their cryptocurrencies if the state does not have modern tools for tracking cryptocurrency transactions. On the scale of a country like Argentina, it's not $1 billion spent over 3-5 years to create such a system. I don't believe their budget can do it.

[zasad@]

https://news.bitcoin.com/argentine-government-drops-crypto-legalizing-opportunity-from-omnibus-bill/
"The Argentine government, presided by Javier Milei, has resolved to drop the tax opportunities for crypto in the omnibus bill presented to Congress. The bill allowed taxpayers to declare the ownership of some previously undeclared assets, with crypto also included, reducing the payments and fees for this task.

Argentine Government Excludes Crypto Opportunities From Omnibus Bill
The Argentine government has withdrawn the opportunities for declaring ownership of certain assets, including crypto, from the omnibus bill presented to Congress this month. The bill, titled “Law of Bases and Starting Points for the Freedom of Argentines,” seeks to advance reforms in several areas, including getting legislative powers for President Javier Milei, who could take action directly in several fields, sidestepping Congress."

[pakhitheboss]

https://news.bitcoin.com/argentine-government-drops-crypto-legalizing-opportunity-from-omnibus-bill/
"The Argentine government, presided by Javier Milei, has resolved to drop the tax opportunities for crypto in the omnibus bill presented to Congress. The bill allowed taxpayers to declare the ownership of some previously undeclared assets, with crypto also included, reducing the payments and fees for this task.

Argentine Government Excludes Crypto Opportunities From Omnibus Bill
The Argentine government has withdrawn the opportunities for declaring ownership of certain assets, including crypto, from the omnibus bill presented to Congress this month. The bill, titled “Law of Bases and Starting Points for the Freedom of Argentines,” seeks to advance reforms in several areas, including getting legislative powers for President Javier Milei, who could take action directly in several fields, sidestepping Congress."

This guy Javier Milei is kind of weird, he is coming up with policies that should either destroy the country or save it. First, he tries to implement a policy in a country that is ranked 98th most corrupt nation then he takes only 20 days to take it back. He would have eventually realized that he was going after the rich or the elite. I doubt apart from the rich and elite there would be others investing in cryptocurrencies in that country. He would have also realized that these guys can bribe the officials to not investigate them if they do not declare their assets in crypto or stocks.

What he will now do is come up with a harsher policy to tax the rich and elites who are hiding their funds. That will mean he would need to implement a regulation around it. Seeking reforms using policies and regulations never works unless you handle corruption, he needs to first focus on that area of concern and then think about generating revenue through tax for his country

[zasad@]

https://news.bitcoin.com/argentine-government-drops-crypto-legalizing-opportunity-from-omnibus-bill/
"The Argentine government, presided by Javier Milei, has resolved to drop the tax opportunities for crypto in the omnibus bill presented to Congress. The bill allowed taxpayers to declare the ownership of some previously undeclared assets, with crypto also included, reducing the payments and fees for this task.

Argentine Government Excludes Crypto Opportunities From Omnibus Bill
The Argentine government has withdrawn the opportunities for declaring ownership of certain assets, including crypto, from the omnibus bill presented to Congress this month. The bill, titled “Law of Bases and Starting Points for the Freedom of Argentines,” seeks to advance reforms in several areas, including getting legislative powers for President Javier Milei, who could take action directly in several fields, sidestepping Congress."

This guy Javier Milei is kind of weird, he is coming up with policies that should either destroy the country or save it. First, he tries to implement a policy in a country that is ranked 98th most corrupt nation then he takes only 20 days to take it back. He would have eventually realized that he was going after the rich or the elite. I doubt apart from the rich and elite there would be others investing in cryptocurrencies in that country. He would have also realized that these guys can bribe the officials to not investigate them if they do not declare their assets in crypto or stocks.

What he will now do is come up with a harsher policy to tax the rich and elites who are hiding their funds. That will mean he would need to implement a regulation around it. Seeking reforms using policies and regulations never works unless you handle corruption, he needs to first focus on that area of concern and then think about generating revenue through tax for his country

I looked at forecasts for Argentina, where experts promise inflation of 200-300% this year. In such conditions, it is unprofitable to keep money in banks, so either cryptocurrencies or dollars remain, but it is easier to store your savings in cryptocurrencies and transport them across the border.

[zasad@]

https://cryptonews.com/news/argentina-tops-latin-america-in-stablecoin-purchases-and-holdings-report.htm
"Throughout the second half of 2022 and all of 2023, there has been a notable embrace of cryptocurrencies in the region, reflecting an increasing acceptance among the local population, despite market volatility and local economic difficulties. Argentina stands out as the only country in the region where the acquisition of digital dollars surpasses that of other cryptocurrencies by nearly five times.

The report reveals that amidst economic turmoil, 60% of Argentine crypto purchases on Bitso were allocated to dollar-based stablecoins such as USDT and USDC, with just 13% of purchases dedicated to Bitcoin. This contrasts with Colombia, Brazil, and Mexico, where stablecoin purchases ranged between 31% and 40% of total crypto acquisitions.

Notably, these stablecoins emerged as some of the “fastest-growing” cryptocurrencies in the area. Bitso’s analysis reveals that approximately 26% of the average portfolio of users in Argentina comprises stablecoins, driven primarily by the country’s economic environment. Bitso attributes the significant demand for stablecoins in Argentina to the prevailing political and economic context, where citizens seek alternatives to combat inflation and currency devaluation."

[pakhitheboss]

The report reveals that amidst economic turmoil, 60% of Argentine crypto purchases on Bitso were allocated to dollar-based stablecoins such as USDT and USDC, with just 13% of purchases dedicated to Bitcoin. This contrasts with Colombia, Brazil, and Mexico, where stablecoin purchases ranged between 31% and 40% of total crypto acquisitions.

Notably, these stablecoins emerged as some of the “fastest-growing” cryptocurrencies in the area. Bitso’s analysis reveals that approximately 26% of the average portfolio of users in Argentina comprises stablecoins, driven primarily by the country’s economic environment. Bitso attributes the significant demand for stablecoins in Argentina to the prevailing political and economic context, where citizens seek alternatives to combat inflation and currency devaluation."

Ultimately, these guys are going into a domain where stable coin takes the upper edge over Bitcoin. That said, the country's economy is so bad that they need stablecoins to counter hyperinflation. What makes me question their investment is when they know stablecoins are pegged to USD, which of course is on the verge of getting devalued as it is USD basically why did these guys not consider Bitcoin as a concrete option.

Is this because they fear their wealth growing down or is this because they cannot afford to invest in Bitcoin? Normally everyone wants to buy 1BTC rather than holding on to satoshi. The perception is that Bitcoin is not accessible like it used to be before 2017 because of its market value whereas a stablecoin is still accessible like 1 USDT = 1 USD.

[PrivacyG]

Voluntary.  You will only be terrorized through fear if you do not volunteer.  Sounds just about right.

This pressure is reaching a global scale.  Before it was only a few countries.  Now it is almost everywhere.  Does any body else think this hints to a next step?  I am waiting for the day they all slowly start punishing for not declaring.  They are inducing fear now, it will be a punishment next.

[goldkingcoiner]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

If I lived in Argentina, I would keep my crypto assets secret. Especially now, with president Milei ruining the economy.

People who live in dictatorships and bad countries need to keep their cryptocurrency assets as secret as possible and obviously not tell their government. Telling the government how much money/profits you have in crypto (even though you can make it impossible for them to find out as long as you do not voluntarily give them that information) is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You might as well tell them your seed phrase, that way they can skip the step where they extort it out of you.

But I guess some people are too scared for that.

I mean, if you agree with what your government is doing and you wish to pay taxes in order to improve your country, go ahead. But if you live in a dictatorship that is ruining your economy and your country with corruption, is it not best to keep your real money (Bitcoin) a secret?

[zasad@]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

If I lived in Argentina, I would keep my crypto assets secret. Especially now, with president Milei ruining the economy.

People who live in dictatorships and bad countries need to keep their cryptocurrency assets as secret as possible and obviously not tell their government. Telling the government how much money/profits you have in crypto (even though you can make it impossible for them to find out as long as you do not voluntarily give them that information) is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

You might as well tell them your seed phrase, that way they can skip the step where they extort it out of you.

But I guess some people are too scared for that.

I mean, if you agree with what your government is doing and you wish to pay taxes in order to improve your country, go ahead. But if you live in a dictatorship that is ruining your economy and your country with corruption, is it not best to keep your real money (Bitcoin) a secret?

I would not declare my cryptocurrencies in any country in the world. If I am a tourist or have decided to stay in this country for several years, then this makes no sense, but if, for example, I want to live in the country, then I can open a legal company and legalize cryptocurrencies by paying taxes.

[suzanne5223]

What we're seeing here is a political game that welcomes the adoption of crypto but puts all the citizens under government control.
I don't know who is adviser of Javier Milei and what makes him believe this will be a good idea for the country but from what I read about the crypto bill he ^{(Javier Milei)} introduced to the Argentine, Javier is planned to encourage them to invest in the Bitcoin spot ETF rather than be a self-custodial crypto holder/investor.

[zasad@]

What we're seeing here is a political game that welcomes the adoption of crypto but puts all the citizens under government control.
I don't know who is adviser of Javier Milei and what makes him believe this will be a good idea for the country but from what I read about the crypto bill he ^{(Javier Milei)} introduced to the Argentine, Javier is planned to encourage them to invest in the Bitcoin spot ETF rather than be a self-custodial crypto holder/investor.

What everyone calls implementation or mass adoption is actually called centralization of cryptocurrency.
Governments will always control the finances of their citizens. If a person is stupid and uses centralized services, then he will not own his coins and will eventually lose his money. Cash in many countries will be reduced to a minimum in 5-10 years.

[dansus021]

Just want to bump this thread it is simply because I heard that Argentina had a new president and the Argentina Peso seems hit hard after the election, but when the country hit by high inflation or economic problem there will be a cryptocurrency in it.

I hear the news that Russia and Argentina use a cryptocurrency on a "illegal" market p2p to exchange their currency to other fiat but to be honest this is the best option since Crypto is borderless and can be used by everyone.

[suzanne5223]

What we're seeing here is a political game that welcomes the adoption of crypto but puts all the citizens under government control.
I don't know who is adviser of Javier Milei and what makes him believe this will be a good idea for the country but from what I read about the crypto bill he ^{(Javier Milei)} introduced to the Argentine, Javier is planned to encourage them to invest in the Bitcoin spot ETF rather than be a self-custodial crypto holder/investor.

What everyone calls implementation or mass adoption is actually called centralization of cryptocurrency.
Governments will always control the finances of their citizens. If a person is stupid and uses centralized services, then he will not own his coins and will eventually lose his money. Cash in many countries will be reduced to a minimum in 5-10 years.

I know the mass adoption of cryptocurrency will attract centralization but not in the way the Argentine government is planning which sooner or later would put the lives of some cryptocurrency investors in Argentina in danger of burglary and other forms of attack.
Having said that, you said cash in many countries will reduced in 5-10 years. How is that going to happen when the government never seizes from printing new fiat currency every year?

[zasad@]

What we're seeing here is a political game that welcomes the adoption of crypto but puts all the citizens under government control.
I don't know who is adviser of Javier Milei and what makes him believe this will be a good idea for the country but from what I read about the crypto bill he ^{(Javier Milei)} introduced to the Argentine, Javier is planned to encourage them to invest in the Bitcoin spot ETF rather than be a self-custodial crypto holder/investor.

What everyone calls implementation or mass adoption is actually called centralization of cryptocurrency.
Governments will always control the finances of their citizens. If a person is stupid and uses centralized services, then he will not own his coins and will eventually lose his money. Cash in many countries will be reduced to a minimum in 5-10 years.

I know the mass adoption of cryptocurrency will attract centralization but not in the way the Argentine government is planning which sooner or later would put the lives of some cryptocurrency investors in Argentina in danger of burglary and other forms of attack.
Having said that, you said cash in many countries will reduced in 5-10 years. How is that going to happen when the government never seizes from printing new fiat currency every year?

I’m not saying that all cash will be destroyed, but there will be big restrictions.
There are places in Europe where you cannot pay in cash.
Cash transaction amounts are constantly decreasing in different countries, and therefore it will be difficult to buy expensive things with cash.
State support will be paid to citizens using the CBDC.
The US may be carrying out a major reform to replace dollars, and if you have more than $10,000-$50,000 in cash, you will have to prove its legal origin.

[electronicash]

What we're seeing here is a political game that welcomes the adoption of crypto but puts all the citizens under government control.
I don't know who is adviser of Javier Milei and what makes him believe this will be a good idea for the country but from what I read about the crypto bill he ^{(Javier Milei)} introduced to the Argentine, Javier is planned to encourage them to invest in the Bitcoin spot ETF rather than be a self-custodial crypto holder/investor.

What everyone calls implementation or mass adoption is actually called centralization of cryptocurrency.
Governments will always control the finances of their citizens. If a person is stupid and uses centralized services, then he will not own his coins and will eventually lose his money. Cash in many countries will be reduced to a minimum in 5-10 years.

I know the mass adoption of cryptocurrency will attract centralization but not in the way the Argentine government is planning which sooner or later would put the lives of some cryptocurrency investors in Argentina in danger of burglary and other forms of attack.
Having said that, you said cash in many countries will reduced in 5-10 years. How is that going to happen when the government never seizes from printing new fiat currency every year?

I’m not saying that all cash will be destroyed, but there will be big restrictions.
There are places in Europe where you cannot pay in cash.
Cash transaction amounts are constantly decreasing in different countries, and therefore it will be difficult to buy expensive things with cash.
State support will be paid to citizens using the CBDC.
The US may be carrying out a major reform to replace dollars, and if you have more than $10,000-$50,000 in cash, you will have to prove its legal origin.

and if you can't provide legal origin, what will they do to money and the owner?

Argentina's government is telling people that declaring crypto assets should be voluntary yet if you don't, AFIP will be coming after you. Melei tricked the people in Argentina, he was supposed to be a BTC president like Bukele but he behaves so differently from Nayib.

but then anyway, the country is part of the continent of America, it's understandable they'd be using USD in economic crisis.

[zasad@]

What we're seeing here is a political game that welcomes the adoption of crypto but puts all the citizens under government control.
I don't know who is adviser of Javier Milei and what makes him believe this will be a good idea for the country but from what I read about the crypto bill he ^{(Javier Milei)} introduced to the Argentine, Javier is planned to encourage them to invest in the Bitcoin spot ETF rather than be a self-custodial crypto holder/investor.

What everyone calls implementation or mass adoption is actually called centralization of cryptocurrency.
Governments will always control the finances of their citizens. If a person is stupid and uses centralized services, then he will not own his coins and will eventually lose his money. Cash in many countries will be reduced to a minimum in 5-10 years.

I know the mass adoption of cryptocurrency will attract centralization but not in the way the Argentine government is planning which sooner or later would put the lives of some cryptocurrency investors in Argentina in danger of burglary and other forms of attack.
Having said that, you said cash in many countries will reduced in 5-10 years. How is that going to happen when the government never seizes from printing new fiat currency every year?

I’m not saying that all cash will be destroyed, but there will be big restrictions.
There are places in Europe where you cannot pay in cash.
Cash transaction amounts are constantly decreasing in different countries, and therefore it will be difficult to buy expensive things with cash.
State support will be paid to citizens using the CBDC.
The US may be carrying out a major reform to replace dollars, and if you have more than $10,000-$50,000 in cash, you will have to prove its legal origin.

and if you can't provide legal origin, what will they do to money and the owner?

Nothing. The US government will give everyone a gift for gratuitous assistance to the state

Today the dollars are green, and tomorrow the government will issue blue dollars and give a year to replace the old dollars with new ones.
For American citizens there will be large limits and a simple procedure, but for non-citizens there will be an almost impossible procedure when the legality of your earnings is checked, and the illegality of earnings of those who gave you these dollars.

[UmerIdrees]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

So does this tactic work for the Argentine people to declare their crypto assets and give taxes on their capital gain?  What if the people do not declare their crypto assets, then how will the government be able to tax them 

I am concerned about this because recently our government may also start to tax the crypto if demanded by the IMF. If this happens the crypto needs to be legalised first and I do not know if this step from the government will benefit those who are involved in crypto or if it will be an extra burden on the cryptocurrency investors.

[zasad@]

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/news/argentina-to-pressure-citizens-on-declaring-their-crypto
"As per the terms of the bill, citizens will be encouraged to declare their assets, financial assets like stocks and crypto assets. Declarations will be entirely voluntary. However, the bill also suggests that in case of a failure to declare assets and tokens may result in an investigation by the Federal Administration of Public Revenues (AFIP), the nation’s tax body.

In the case of crypto assets, citizens will be asked to submit an affidavit which is a voluntary statement that can be used as evidence as it is made under oath by the law.

Citizens who declare their assets and tokens on the voluntary forms would be subject to tax at a rate of 2.5% unless they aren’t high earners. According to the bill, individuals who have under $50,000 worth of assets will be charged at a lower initial rate of 1.5%. "

So does this tactic work for the Argentine people to declare their crypto assets and give taxes on their capital gain?  What if the people do not declare their crypto assets, then how will the government be able to tax them  

I am concerned about this because recently our government may also start to tax the crypto if demanded by the IMF. If this happens the crypto needs to be legalised first and I do not know if this step from the government will benefit those who are involved in crypto or if it will be an extra burden on the cryptocurrency investors.

This tactic works in a different way. I will tell you using my country as an example, but I think this will be relevant for other countries as well. Everyone has heard about the Snowden Revelations and I think it’s no secret that all countries monitor their citizens and also non-residents who are in the country.
Such surveillance has many disadvantages, because it requires a lot of resources and high costs. It allows you to monitor opponents of the state, foreign agents, and control your subordinates, but this resource is very limited and does not allow you to effectively monitor millions of citizens.
The same can be said about any law that cannot be controlled.

But how does the law work? A person is randomly checked somewhere at an airport, train station or other public place, his phone is checked, and it turns out that he is an active crypto user who does not pay taxes. It’s even worse when it turns out that he is a member of groups that oppose government power.
And after this, all laws and large fines will begin to be applied. Such cases are constantly published in the press to intimidate the majority. This is how this tactic works.

___
If it is different in your country, then write. It is very interesting to me.

[UmerIdrees]

But how does the law work? A person is randomly checked somewhere at an airport, train station or other public place, his phone is checked, and it turns out that he is an active crypto user who does not pay taxes. It’s even worse when it turns out that he is a member of groups that oppose government power.
And after this, all laws and large fines will begin to be applied. Such cases are constantly published in the press to intimidate the majority. This is how this tactic works.

A phone is personal property and i don't think anyone has the right to check the phone 
Such things do not exist in our country but even still if it exists that not a perfect way to know how much crypto a person own. There can be a situation in which a person has installed a Binance app on his mobile but he never deposits or trade 

If people in my country knew that their cell phones could be randomly checked at public places by authorities we would never install any app on our mobile phones and keep our crypto-related activities through our laptops at home and use a good VPN so the ISP couldn't even track our activity either. There are many ways to hide our crypto assets and the government cannot track how much people have in their personal wallets.

[zasad@]

But how does the law work? A person is randomly checked somewhere at an airport, train station or other public place, his phone is checked, and it turns out that he is an active crypto user who does not pay taxes. It’s even worse when it turns out that he is a member of groups that oppose government power.
And after this, all laws and large fines will begin to be applied. Such cases are constantly published in the press to intimidate the majority. This is how this tactic works.

A phone is personal property and i don't think anyone has the right to check the phone 
Such things do not exist in our country but even still if it exists that not a perfect way to know how much crypto a person own. There can be a situation in which a person has installed a Binance app on his mobile but he never deposits or trade 

If people in my country knew that their cell phones could be randomly checked at public places by authorities we would never install any app on our mobile phones and keep our crypto-related activities through our laptops at home and use a good VPN so the ISP couldn't even track our activity either. There are many ways to hide our crypto assets and the government cannot track how much people have in their personal wallets.

Of course, we live in different countries, but you shouldn’t be so naive as to think that someone has the right to check your phone.
Of course, this is not the way to fight cryptocurrency users. Thanks to this method, the police are fighting drug pawners who place these drugs in different places in the city.

On your phone, inspectors can find the Binance application. This is the first flag. If you are subscribed to communities of crypto users, then this is the second flag. If you have crypto wallets installed, then this is the third flag. And then a specialized specialist can take over your case legally.

[virasog]

On your phone, inspectors can find the Binance application. This is the first flag. If you are subscribed to communities of crypto users, then this is the second flag. If you have crypto wallets installed, then this is the third flag. And then a specialized specialist can take over your case legally.

Usually, people think that they are very clever, and they can hide their crypto activities from the government but they do not know that the government has all the means to investigate and trap the people who are hiding their crypto investments. Even all the online activities of the person can be traced by the government and there is no escape from this.

If any government will tax the crypto, then people will have to pay the taxes. Yes, they can hide this information from the government for some time but sooner or later the government will find them and in worse cases, may fine them heavily for hiding their assets and not obeying the government rules and regulations.

[m2017]

Usually, people think that they are very clever, and they can hide their crypto activities from the government but they do not know that the government has all the means to investigate and trap the people who are hiding their crypto investments. Even all the online activities of the person can be traced by the government and there is no escape from this.

“Government” is an abstract concept behind which stand ordinary people, whose qualifications vary from “government” to “government”.

For example, what means of investigation can you name ("hiding their crypto")?

Doesn’t the “government” have any difficulties tracking offline activities? Maybe citizens of Argentina should look in this direction?

If any government will tax the crypto, then people will have to pay the taxes. Yes, they can hide this information from the government for some time but sooner or later the government will find them and in worse cases, may fine them heavily for hiding their assets and not obeying the government rules and regulations.

People don't necessarily have to do this. If cryptocurrencies are stored in a wallet and not moved for many years, then how will the "government" know that you have it? Unless you tell it yourself under torture.

What about changing the “government” that threatens to “may fine them heavily” to another one by changing place of residence (a country with a greedy “government”)?

[Mpamaegbu]

I am waiting for the day they all slowly start punishing for not declaring.  They are inducing fear now, it will be a punishment next.

Government institutions always gradually test the waters and make it look like whatever legislation they come up with is for the good of their citizens but it's all lies. They stylishly forced KYC on exchanges and have now moved a step further to asking citizens to declare assets for the convenience of tax assessment. We know that's not a germane reason. There's an ongoing battle in my country with Binance and government. My country is accusing Binance of sabotaging her economically and seeking Binance to start paying tax. It's laughable how these politicians, not understanding jack about cryptocurrencies, jump into it ignorantly to control it.