Brace yourselves, CBDCs one Step Closer

[goldkingcoiner]

Coindesk revealed the Bank of America has been researching CBDCs and it seems that they are closer than ever. The report considers CBDCs to have a lot of potential and was a natural evolution of money.

According to Alkesh Shah, "CBDCs do not change the definition of money, but will likely change how and when value is transferred over the next 15 years." He thus added that central bank digital currencies have “the potential to revolutionize global financial systems and may be the most significant technological advancement in the history of money.”

Central Banks are already exploring the whole notion of developing CBDC systems so this may come sooner than one might think. What do you guys say? Ten years ago, I said that it would take 10 years for governments start adopting CBDCs. Now that 10 years have passed, some countries have already adopted it but it is still not mainstream. How long do you guys think it will take for CBDCs to become the norm?

I used to be a bit frightened by the notion of a centralized, transparent and regulatable government money. But lets be honest here, even when or if some government in this world decides to enforce such a money system on the people, they will automatically run towards freedom. Towards Bitcoin, the complete opposite of that system. And Bitcoin has proven time and time again that it is impossible for any government to control it. CBDCs will be a failed experiment which only pushed people into the right direction. At that point BTC will become the one global money.

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[Smartprofit]

Coindesk revealed the Bank of America has been researching CBDCs and it seems that they are closer than ever. The report considers CBDCs to have a lot of potential and was a natural evolution of money.

According to Alkesh Shah, "CBDCs do not change the definition of money, but will likely change how and when value is transferred over the next 15 years." He thus added that central bank digital currencies have “the potential to revolutionize global financial systems and may be the most significant technological advancement in the history of money.”

Central Banks are already exploring the whole notion of developing CBDC systems so this may come sooner than one might think. What do you guys say? Ten years ago, I said that it would take 10 years for governments start adopting CBDCs. Now that 10 years have passed, some countries have already adopted it but it is still not mainstream. How long do you guys think it will take for CBDCs to become the norm?

I used to be a bit frightened by the notion of a centralized, transparent and regulatable government money. But lets be honest here, even when or if some government in this world decides to enforce such a money system on the people, they will automatically run towards freedom. Towards Bitcoin, the complete opposite of that system. And Bitcoin has proven time and time again that it is impossible for any government to control it. CBDCs will be a failed experiment which only pushed people into the right direction. At that point BTC will become the one global money.

Most people in the world aspire to slavery, not to freedom.  The CBDC project can be very successful. 

People are actively moving away from cash, despite the fact that cash is a real freedom and lack of control from governments and banks.  Currently, people are actively using bank cards, with the help of which commercial banks can track all the expenses and incomes of their customers. 

CBDC is just a further evolution of cashless payments. 

At the same time, this is a real opportunity for the state to build a financial system that will allow the government to effectively intervene in the economic processes in the country.

[cryptosize]

https://rmx.news/italy/italian-city-plans-controversial-social-credit-system/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3Hns_syl3k

"We should not become Italy" they said.

It doesn't answer the question though. People (or at least people who don't live under communism) haven't got their bank accounts closed until now. I'm sure they'd react.

 

[savetheFORUM]

It's interesting to see how the big banks are starting to take notice of CBDCs and their potential impact on the financial system. But I think it's important to remember that CBDCs are still a form of government-controlled currency. They may offer some benefits in terms of efficiency and lower costs, but they can't match the level of trust and anonymity that comes with truly decentralized cryptocurrencies.

IMO, CBDCs are more likely to challenge the current status of crypto rather than revolutionize the financial system. While CBDCs may be able to streamline certain processes and make transactions faster, they can't offer the same level of transparency and security that blockchain-based cryptocurrencies can. I truly believe that crypto and blockchain technology will play a major role in the future of money and payments, regardless of how quickly CBDCs are adopted.

It will be more interesting if these banks will also notice the cryptos and realize their worth in case they haven't yet but I think this one is rare. If there are ones that they will embrace first, it would also be the currency which are closer to them. This is of course the CBDCs. It's impossible that they will miss it since the government and other banks, are also recommending it to them.

Don't worry; people in the forum already know that CBDCs are a far from a real crypto and we will never support it. Only the people who thinks that CBDCs are beneficial are the people who are not into cryptos. These people will never learn.

[Lucius]

@cryptosize, first of all, learn how to resize an image because this way you do it is not appropriate for the forum (the page loads more slowly, some users have very slow and limited internet traffic).

Secondly, who is this woman and why would anyone believe her? Money doesn't just disappear from the bank account, and maybe "Sandy" should be a little more careful with whom she shares her card and how much she spends.

[macson]

Coindesk revealed the Bank of America has been researching CBDCs and it seems that they are closer than ever. The report considers CBDCs to have a lot of potential and was a natural evolution of money.

According to Alkesh Shah, "CBDCs do not change the definition of money, but will likely change how and when value is transferred over the next 15 years." He thus added that central bank digital currencies have “the potential to revolutionize global financial systems and may be the most significant technological advancement in the history of money.”

Central Banks are already exploring the whole notion of developing CBDC systems so this may come sooner than one might think. What do you guys say? Ten years ago, I said that it would take 10 years for governments start adopting CBDCs. Now that 10 years have passed, some countries have already adopted it but it is still not mainstream. How long do you guys think it will take for CBDCs to become the norm?

CBDC is the natural evolution of money? they fantasize, since long ago every medium of exchange was determined by the people and the government never issued it but over time, the government tried to control the medium of exchange and monopolized it and there was even a government in a country that printed money as they pleased.

the natural evolution of money is cryptocurrency and bitcoin is the leader, those who reject cryptocurrency reject the evolution of money and CBDC is just a tool for the government to control their citizens more and more.

[Smartprofit]

Coindesk revealed the Bank of America has been researching CBDCs and it seems that they are closer than ever. The report considers CBDCs to have a lot of potential and was a natural evolution of money.

According to Alkesh Shah, "CBDCs do not change the definition of money, but will likely change how and when value is transferred over the next 15 years." He thus added that central bank digital currencies have “the potential to revolutionize global financial systems and may be the most significant technological advancement in the history of money.”

Central Banks are already exploring the whole notion of developing CBDC systems so this may come sooner than one might think. What do you guys say? Ten years ago, I said that it would take 10 years for governments start adopting CBDCs. Now that 10 years have passed, some countries have already adopted it but it is still not mainstream. How long do you guys think it will take for CBDCs to become the norm?

CBDC is the natural evolution of money? they fantasize, since long ago every medium of exchange was determined by the people and the government never issued it but over time, the government tried to control the medium of exchange and monopolized it and there was even a government in a country that printed money as they pleased.

the natural evolution of money is cryptocurrency and bitcoin is the leader, those who reject cryptocurrency reject the evolution of money and CBDC is just a tool for the government to control their citizens more and more.

Evolution is not necessarily a movement from bad systems to good ones. 

Evolution is a process of struggle and development of various systems, in which the most adapted to given specific external conditions win.  The CBDC has a very good chance of winning this fight, as they have the support of almost all governments and their Central Banks. 

The CBDC system is opposed by commercial banks, large corporations and cypherpunks.

[justdimin]

Most people in the world aspire to slavery, not to freedom.  The CBDC project can be very successful. 

People are actively moving away from cash, despite the fact that cash is a real freedom and lack of control from governments and banks.  Currently, people are actively using bank cards, with the help of which commercial banks can track all the expenses and incomes of their customers. 

CBDC is just a further evolution of cashless payments. 

At the same time, this is a real opportunity for the state to build a financial system that will allow the government to effectively intervene in the economic processes in the country.

I have to say cash is not freedom, neither bank cards obviously, and nor CBDC will be. None of them are the real "freedom" that we need. Bitcoin is sort of there, it's not fully there but it is decentralized so it is by far the best one out there so far, and it will stay like that until something better comes along.

Freedom is not given to us but we need to take it, nobody would give up their billionaire life and government overwatch just because they should, they give it up because you force them to. And in order to do that we need something even better than bitcoin, but it is at least better than anything in the fiat world, and that's something.

[Wind_FURY]

The "step closer" is actually here. I believe the United Kingdom WILL take the step INSIDE the CBDC world. They're probably in "Stage One" with Britcoin.

CBDCs are ‘1984 on steroids’

“Authoritarian”

Not everyone is convinced that a digital pound would be a good thing for the UK, citing concerns that it would give the government unprecedented visibility into citizens’ transactions and control over what they choose to do with their money.

“There’s a big civil liberties issue and it’s the fact that you would have central bank insight into everything everyone is doing with their money and potential control over those flows,” Virginie O’Shea, founder and CEO of capital markets research firm Firebrand Research, told DL News. “That is what you’d get if you digitised absolutely everything and had a single point of control.”

https://www.dlnews.com/articles/defi/cbdcs-are-1984-on-steroids-critics-warn-as-supporters-say-britcoin-will-save-the-economy/

Perhaps some of you readers don't understand that "1984" reference. It's the title of a novel about a dystopian future when everyone is monitored, languaged is simplified and manipulated, and all information goes through a centralized entity called "Big Brother".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

[Bananington]

Ten years ago, I said that it would take 10 years for governments start adopting CBDCs. Now that 10 years have passed, some countries have already adopted it but it is still not mainstream. How long do you guys think it will take for CBDCs to become the norm?

I think it will be sooner than we think. The people in government know how to manipulate and implement usage of things and if they want mainstream adoption in a couple of years sooner than we think, there is a strategy to achieving it. If the government reduce the amount of physical money in circulation and encourage people to switch to CBDC's for transactions, it will be a difficult change for people to adapt to easily but in a short time people will get along. CBDC's have their own advantages, the only thing is that they are controlled by the government, mainstream adoption of CBDC will increase awareness people have about another digital form of currency which is cryptocurrency.

[Smartprofit]

Most people in the world aspire to slavery, not to freedom.  The CBDC project can be very successful. 

People are actively moving away from cash, despite the fact that cash is a real freedom and lack of control from governments and banks.  Currently, people are actively using bank cards, with the help of which commercial banks can track all the expenses and incomes of their customers. 

CBDC is just a further evolution of cashless payments. 

At the same time, this is a real opportunity for the state to build a financial system that will allow the government to effectively intervene in the economic processes in the country.

I have to say cash is not freedom, neither bank cards obviously, and nor CBDC will be. None of them are the real "freedom" that we need. Bitcoin is sort of there, it's not fully there but it is decentralized so it is by far the best one out there so far, and it will stay like that until something better comes along.

Freedom is not given to us but we need to take it, nobody would give up their billionaire life and government overwatch just because they should, they give it up because you force them to. And in order to do that we need something even better than bitcoin, but it is at least better than anything in the fiat world, and that's something.

In my opinion, cash is the best money for people who value their freedom. 

Previously, cash was made from gold and silver.  Since gold and silver are precious metals, no tyrant in the world has ever had the opportunity to devalue your money.  Yes, he could kill you and take your money, but he couldn't devalue it. 

Then the money began to be issued in paper form, and then it was announced that banknotes were no longer backed by gold and could not be exchanged in the Central Bank for gold bars.  This has allowed governments to devalue your money through inflation. 

However, you still had the opportunity to make money transactions anonymously and confidentially.  You could make payments to any person and buy any (even prohibited) goods, works and services. 

The freedom of people was further limited with the beginning of the mass use of plastic bank cards.  Banks began to monitor the money transactions of their customers and block their accounts in case of suspicion of committing some kind of prohibited activity. 

The introduction of the CBDC symbolizes the complete loss of freedom of monetary circulation.  CBDC is, in fact, a digital money concentration camp in which the money does not belong to you, and your right to use it can be revoked at any time.

[cryptosize]

Most people in the world aspire to slavery, not to freedom.  The CBDC project can be very successful. 

People are actively moving away from cash, despite the fact that cash is a real freedom and lack of control from governments and banks.  Currently, people are actively using bank cards, with the help of which commercial banks can track all the expenses and incomes of their customers. 

CBDC is just a further evolution of cashless payments. 

At the same time, this is a real opportunity for the state to build a financial system that will allow the government to effectively intervene in the economic processes in the country.

I have to say cash is not freedom, neither bank cards obviously, and nor CBDC will be. None of them are the real "freedom" that we need. Bitcoin is sort of there, it's not fully there but it is decentralized so it is by far the best one out there so far, and it will stay like that until something better comes along.

Freedom is not given to us but we need to take it, nobody would give up their billionaire life and government overwatch just because they should, they give it up because you force them to. And in order to do that we need something even better than bitcoin, but it is at least better than anything in the fiat world, and that's something.

In my opinion, cash is the best money for people who value their freedom. 

Previously, cash was made from gold and silver.  Since gold and silver are precious metals, no tyrant in the world has ever had the opportunity to devalue your money.  Yes, he could kill you and take your money, but he couldn't devalue it. 

Then the money began to be issued in paper form, and then it was announced that banknotes were no longer backed by gold and could not be exchanged in the Central Bank for gold bars.  This has allowed governments to devalue your money through inflation.

A bit contradictory, isn't it?

Nobody can devalue BTC in the long term...

[Smartprofit]

Most people in the world aspire to slavery, not to freedom.  The CBDC project can be very successful. 

People are actively moving away from cash, despite the fact that cash is a real freedom and lack of control from governments and banks.  Currently, people are actively using bank cards, with the help of which commercial banks can track all the expenses and incomes of their customers. 

CBDC is just a further evolution of cashless payments. 

At the same time, this is a real opportunity for the state to build a financial system that will allow the government to effectively intervene in the economic processes in the country.

I have to say cash is not freedom, neither bank cards obviously, and nor CBDC will be. None of them are the real "freedom" that we need. Bitcoin is sort of there, it's not fully there but it is decentralized so it is by far the best one out there so far, and it will stay like that until something better comes along.

Freedom is not given to us but we need to take it, nobody would give up their billionaire life and government overwatch just because they should, they give it up because you force them to. And in order to do that we need something even better than bitcoin, but it is at least better than anything in the fiat world, and that's something.

In my opinion, cash is the best money for people who value their freedom. 

Previously, cash was made from gold and silver.  Since gold and silver are precious metals, no tyrant in the world has ever had the opportunity to devalue your money.  Yes, he could kill you and take your money, but he couldn't devalue it. 

Then the money began to be issued in paper form, and then it was announced that banknotes were no longer backed by gold and could not be exchanged in the Central Bank for gold bars.  This has allowed governments to devalue your money through inflation.

A bit contradictory, isn't it?

Nobody can devalue BTC in the long term...

I really love Bitcoin... 

However, I have to acknowledge the fact that great efforts are currently being made to ensure that the famous principle (1 BTC = 1 BTC) cannot be applied. 

One of the main properties of good money is the fungibility of coins (one coin = another coin).  However, Bitcoins are currently not fungible.  A new coin just mined by a miner is worth more than a "dirty" bitcoin that was previously misused. 

Some users even got into the habit of regularly checking their Bitcoins for trustworthiness, figuring out whether they belong to white, gray or black (criminal).  This is not very good ....

It is consoling that, in addition to Bitcoin, there is also such an anonymous and confidential cryptocurrency as Monero (XMR). 

Monero is a true digital cash currency of the 21st century!

[Wind_FURY]

Most people in the world aspire to slavery, not to freedom.  The CBDC project can be very successful. 

People are actively moving away from cash, despite the fact that cash is a real freedom and lack of control from governments and banks.  Currently, people are actively using bank cards, with the help of which commercial banks can track all the expenses and incomes of their customers. 

CBDC is just a further evolution of cashless payments. 

At the same time, this is a real opportunity for the state to build a financial system that will allow the government to effectively intervene in the economic processes in the country.

I have to say cash is not freedom, neither bank cards obviously, and nor CBDC will be. None of them are the real "freedom" that we need. Bitcoin is sort of there, it's not fully there but it is decentralized so it is by far the best one out there so far, and it will stay like that until something better comes along.

Freedom is not given to us but we need to take it, nobody would give up their billionaire life and government overwatch just because they should, they give it up because you force them to. And in order to do that we need something even better than bitcoin, but it is at least better than anything in the fiat world, and that's something.

In my opinion, cash is the best money for people who value their freedom. 

Previously, cash was made from gold and silver.  Since gold and silver are precious metals, no tyrant in the world has ever had the opportunity to devalue your money.  Yes, he could kill you and take your money, but he couldn't devalue it. 

Then the money began to be issued in paper form, and then it was announced that banknotes were no longer backed by gold and could not be exchanged in the Central Bank for gold bars.  This has allowed governments to devalue your money through inflation. 

However, you still had the opportunity to make money transactions anonymously and confidentially.  You could make payments to any person and buy any (even prohibited) goods, works and services. 

The freedom of people was further limited with the beginning of the mass use of plastic bank cards.  Banks began to monitor the money transactions of their customers and block their accounts in case of suspicion of committing some kind of prohibited activity. 

The introduction of the CBDC symbolizes the complete loss of freedom of monetary circulation.  CBDC is, in fact, a digital money concentration camp in which the money does not belong to you, and your right to use it can be revoked at any time.

If only someone invented a form of money that can't be censored.

 

In a world where CBDC's adoption grows more and more, I'm sure that the growth of people who value their freedom to transact will grow more and more too. There's just one path towards that and all of them lead to Bitcoin. We are indeed early, because if everyone knew what was going on, Bitcoin would have already surged to six digits.

[tiCeR]

Most people in the world aspire to slavery, not to freedom.  The CBDC project can be very successful. 

People are actively moving away from cash, despite the fact that cash is a real freedom and lack of control from governments and banks.  Currently, people are actively using bank cards, with the help of which commercial banks can track all the expenses and incomes of their customers. 

CBDC is just a further evolution of cashless payments. 

At the same time, this is a real opportunity for the state to build a financial system that will allow the government to effectively intervene in the economic processes in the country.

I have to say cash is not freedom, neither bank cards obviously, and nor CBDC will be. None of them are the real "freedom" that we need. Bitcoin is sort of there, it's not fully there but it is decentralized so it is by far the best one out there so far, and it will stay like that until something better comes along.

Freedom is not given to us but we need to take it, nobody would give up their billionaire life and government overwatch just because they should, they give it up because you force them to. And in order to do that we need something even better than bitcoin, but it is at least better than anything in the fiat world, and that's something.

In my opinion, cash is the best money for people who value their freedom. 

Previously, cash was made from gold and silver.  Since gold and silver are precious metals, no tyrant in the world has ever had the opportunity to devalue your money.  Yes, he could kill you and take your money, but he couldn't devalue it. 

Then the money began to be issued in paper form, and then it was announced that banknotes were no longer backed by gold and could not be exchanged in the Central Bank for gold bars.  This has allowed governments to devalue your money through inflation. 

However, you still had the opportunity to make money transactions anonymously and confidentially.  You could make payments to any person and buy any (even prohibited) goods, works and services. 

The freedom of people was further limited with the beginning of the mass use of plastic bank cards.  Banks began to monitor the money transactions of their customers and block their accounts in case of suspicion of committing some kind of prohibited activity. 

The introduction of the CBDC symbolizes the complete loss of freedom of monetary circulation.  CBDC is, in fact, a digital money concentration camp in which the money does not belong to you, and your right to use it can be revoked at any time.

If only someone invented a form of money that can't be censored.

 

In a world where CBDC's adoption grows more and more, I'm sure that the growth of people who value their freedom to transact will grow more and more too. There's just one path towards that and all of them lead to Bitcoin. We are indeed early, because if everyone knew what was going on, Bitcoin would have already surged to six digits.

With digital money accounts, they can literally cut you off from the real world within a blink of an eye . They can impose a modern form of coercive detention on you without putting you into prison. What happens if you have a dispute at court and they obviously want some answers from you, answers that might incriminate yourself and it's not even true. Perhaps they can put you under pressure by blocking certain or all functions of your digital money account. in fact, if cash doesn't exist anymore they could cut off every lifeline that let's you participate in real life. I think it is going to end in a surveillance and oppression disaster. It doesn't even have to happen the obvious way.

Not many people are aware of how the Pegasus spyware has already gotten out of control. Even when they claimed to not use it at all or, if they use it, only in more or less specific cases and not in an arbitrarily prevalent way, it now got out of control. Of course it did because governments cannot resist. Even if they initially had good intentions (which I don't believe), they just can't resist.

And CBDCs are a surveillance and control junky's dream technology! They can create mobility profiles, spending profiles, mental and physical health profiles, etc. That's a horror scenario for the future and it plays into the hands of big corporations. Good luck getting reasonable insurance rates when they know more about you than you know about yourself as you have no idea what score they apply to you based on the data they own and put together about you.

[Wind_FURY]

Most people in the world aspire to slavery, not to freedom.  The CBDC project can be very successful. 

People are actively moving away from cash, despite the fact that cash is a real freedom and lack of control from governments and banks.  Currently, people are actively using bank cards, with the help of which commercial banks can track all the expenses and incomes of their customers. 

CBDC is just a further evolution of cashless payments. 

At the same time, this is a real opportunity for the state to build a financial system that will allow the government to effectively intervene in the economic processes in the country.

I have to say cash is not freedom, neither bank cards obviously, and nor CBDC will be. None of them are the real "freedom" that we need. Bitcoin is sort of there, it's not fully there but it is decentralized so it is by far the best one out there so far, and it will stay like that until something better comes along.

Freedom is not given to us but we need to take it, nobody would give up their billionaire life and government overwatch just because they should, they give it up because you force them to. And in order to do that we need something even better than bitcoin, but it is at least better than anything in the fiat world, and that's something.

In my opinion, cash is the best money for people who value their freedom. 

Previously, cash was made from gold and silver.  Since gold and silver are precious metals, no tyrant in the world has ever had the opportunity to devalue your money.  Yes, he could kill you and take your money, but he couldn't devalue it. 

Then the money began to be issued in paper form, and then it was announced that banknotes were no longer backed by gold and could not be exchanged in the Central Bank for gold bars.  This has allowed governments to devalue your money through inflation. 

However, you still had the opportunity to make money transactions anonymously and confidentially.  You could make payments to any person and buy any (even prohibited) goods, works and services. 

The freedom of people was further limited with the beginning of the mass use of plastic bank cards.  Banks began to monitor the money transactions of their customers and block their accounts in case of suspicion of committing some kind of prohibited activity. 

The introduction of the CBDC symbolizes the complete loss of freedom of monetary circulation.  CBDC is, in fact, a digital money concentration camp in which the money does not belong to you, and your right to use it can be revoked at any time.

If only someone invented a form of money that can't be censored.

 

In a world where CBDC's adoption grows more and more, I'm sure that the growth of people who value their freedom to transact will grow more and more too. There's just one path towards that and all of them lead to Bitcoin. We are indeed early, because if everyone knew what was going on, Bitcoin would have already surged to six digits.

With digital money accounts, they can literally cut you off from the real world within a blink of an eye.

The solution?

The "Real World" of CBDC/digital account is what's making Bitcoin have real value, which also gives logic to the HODL = never converting your Bitcoin back to the fiat system. With Bitcoin, you are self-sovereign, they can't censor your transactions, and they can't take away your wealth from you.

Like you said, but to illustrate more, let's pretend that it's a CBDC World with NO cash/paper-money. How can you buy Heroine from Mr. Drug Dealer? It's a risk because your identity is tied in your every transaction in CBDC, plus a central entity can censor the transaction AND lock you out of your account because you made an illegal transaction. I am very confident Bitcoin will have value, REAL VALUE in such a world.

[cryptosize]

Like you said, but to illustrate more, let's pretend that it's a CBDC World with NO cash/paper-money. How can you buy Heroine from Mr. Drug Dealer? It's a risk because your identity is tied in your every transaction in CBDC, plus a central entity can censor the transaction AND lock you out of your account because you made an illegal transaction. I am very confident Bitcoin will have value, REAL VALUE in such a world.

BTC with LN (CLN/BOLT12 privacy extensions) and Monero/XMR...

[o48o]

The solution?

The "Real World" of CBDC/digital account is what's making Bitcoin have real value, which also gives logic to the HODL = never converting your Bitcoin back to the fiat system. With Bitcoin, you are self-sovereign, they can't censor your transactions, and they can't take away your wealth from you.

Like you said, but to illustrate more, let's pretend that it's a CBDC World with NO cash/paper-money. How can you buy Heroine from Mr. Drug Dealer? It's a risk because your identity is tied in your every transaction in CBDC, plus a central entity can censor the transaction AND lock you out of your account because you made an illegal transaction. I am very confident Bitcoin will have value, REAL VALUE in such a world.

I think you are directly playing to opponent's hands with arguments like that. Like only usage for confidential small transactions would be heroin. There are people who need confidentiality because they just don't want someone to see what they are buying or are embarrassed about their purchases.

Thing is, there won't be a full proof AML surveillance system because people need privacy and there are other forces in play then just people who want full 24h surveillance. People in democratic countries will be still electing people who see privacy as human right.

FATF travel rule for money will just be more difficult for criminals, but it won't eradicate money laundering. It will just make it more difficult. So most likely platform for CBDC will be privacy preserving because the majority of people will demand it. Only way i can see this happening to use ZK based platform as everything needs to be confidential but auditable at the same time.

[Wind_FURY]

The solution?

The "Real World" of CBDC/digital account is what's making Bitcoin have real value, which also gives logic to the HODL = never converting your Bitcoin back to the fiat system. With Bitcoin, you are self-sovereign, they can't censor your transactions, and they can't take away your wealth from you.

Like you said, but to illustrate more, let's pretend that it's a CBDC World with NO cash/paper-money. How can you buy Heroine from Mr. Drug Dealer? It's a risk because your identity is tied in your every transaction in CBDC, plus a central entity can censor the transaction AND lock you out of your account because you made an illegal transaction. I am very confident Bitcoin will have value, REAL VALUE in such a world.

I think you are directly playing to opponent's hands with arguments like that. Like only usage for confidential small transactions would be heroin. There are people who need confidentiality because they just don't want someone to see what they are buying or are embarrassed about their purchases.

No, because in a CBDC world without cash, what can you use to pay Mr. Heroine Dealer? Plus it's just a mere example, an extreme one, showing the fact that Bitcoin will be the last taken path to transact freely in a CBDC world. That must have some value in such a world, no?

Thing is, there won't be a full proof AML surveillance system because people need privacy and there are other forces in play then just people who want full 24h surveillance. People in democratic countries will be still electing people who see privacy as human right.

That's simply not true anymore. It's slowly becoming more and more intrusive.

FATF travel rule for money will just be more difficult for criminals, but it won't eradicate money laundering. It will just make it more difficult. So most likely platform for CBDC will be privacy preserving because the majority of people will demand it. Only way i can see this happening to use ZK based platform as everything needs to be confidential but auditable at the same time.

I will respect your opinion, but let's just agree to disagree.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Thing is, there won't be a full proof AML surveillance system because people need privacy and there are other forces in play then just people who want full 24h surveillance. People in democratic countries will be still electing people who see privacy as human right.

But will they? How sure are you? As far as my world view goes, people don't care about their privacy as much as they should. I think there is a reasonable doubt that people will prioritize politicians likewise.

So most likely platform for CBDC will be privacy preserving because the majority of people will demand it.

Most likely? Is this the most likely scenario in your opinion? 

Here's a fun fact: PayPal, the most popular and used financial institution as we speak, switched to authoritarian last year, and people didn't give a shit.