I received this private message (possible screenshot manipulation).

[Poker Player]

Hi Poker Player,

I examined the screenshots that Royse presented as proof against you here. It appears that the evidence may have been tampered with and possibly fabricated.

Here is a clip of his screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/8NV2cSY.png

When I zoomed in on the image enough, I noticed a 1 px offset from the bottom edge of the chat bubble. It shouldn't be there if the screenshot is genuine. Also, he obscured the name of the supposed client in several instances, however, it is clear from the visible text that the name does not match. I think this proves that he manipulated the screenshot in some editing program, and copied and pasted the text to make his false arguments against you. Maybe make this public and ask for the community's opinion?

I know nothing about his motive for creating fake evidence to discredit you. However, given his behavior in recent events, nothing would surprise me. I hope this information can help you in refuting his false claims, but I would appreciate it if you would leave my name out of it because I don't want to argue with that drama queen anymore.

I don't understand screenshot analysis, so I would be grateful to those of you who understand the subject better if you could help me with this.

As much as I am the visible face, there are many people who do not trust Royse777, and it is normal that they send me PMs, like another one who warned me that one of the mixers he works with could be a scam.

Just in case he thinks of deleting it, I have saved the images.





I edit to say that I just looked at my Telegram, which I hardly use, and I see that yes, that the fucking liar and crybaby has manipulated the screenshot, which I already knew, but could not prove, and the proof is seen in what is inside the chat bubble. My Telegram messages on that left side are seen in a straight line, and not with the jump that is seen in the screenshot of the fucking liar and crybaby, and as the private message said, there is a drop in name where the name is.

And before anyone says it, I'll say it: yes, I think this deserves a thread on its own to make it clear how manipulative he is. If it remains as a secondary topic in one of the other threads, then many people don't know what's going on.

For those who are not clear on where this comes from:

https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6158/61583381.html

How unfortunate today users like Poker Player who joined not even two and half years ago, thinks they are fine to insult me. Poker Player doesn't stop just insulting me but he is picking up my clients and telling them not to hire me because he thinks I will scam them. Do you think this is acceptable behavior?

https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6158/61584717.html

https://imgur.com/a/XlNrHOV
Let me know if you need a screen recording too. I deliberately removed their name by the way. Since then they never replied me.

[AB de Royse777]

As much as I am the visible face, there are many people who do not trust Royse777, and it is normal that they send me PMs, like another one who warned me that one of the mixers he works with could be a scam.

Isn't it strange that all who do not trust me decide to PM you always. First about the mixer (strange again that your common sense did not even work about self-moderated thread and in fact the reviews were not posted in campaign thread) and now this. Please don't tell me that the messages were from newbie accounts. It will be interesting to know who else received messages from others against anything about me?

Can you ask the same guy to examine these images too?
https://imgur.com/a/TeA5vAG

I took image of some random chats.

When I zoom then I see...







When noticed closely, it does not need to zoom in. It seems in some texts that edge of the icon mismatch a bit on the chats.

Anyway, I was not responding you from last few days, intentionally but I am reading whatever you are posting. In this one, I thought I needed to reply because people will judge it quickly and make up their mind. You are constantly attacking me with your words, accusing me with possible everything. Crybaby, fucking liar, fucking whining childish scammer, fuckingliar777, whiny fucking lying dishonest crybaby - all do not sound nice. When I am not any of it, it automatically go back to you.

Haven't you got tired yet? I really have no time to spend for you. Notice my post history, check my telegram group you will see how busy I am. The time I am spending on writing this post, I could use it to check post history of 3 to 5 users in campaigns. Understand, talking to you is a waste of time for me.

Few last advises:
Please stop creating alt accounts and sending messages to yourself.
Please stop sending messages to my clients or potential clients.
Please stop doing everything to frame me.

None is going to make you trustworthy, it needs to earn by honesty, care for others, love for the community, supportive mindset and years of positive influence.

Hi Poker Player,

I examined the screenshots that Royse presented as proof against you here. It appears that the evidence may have been tampered with and possibly fabricated.

Here is a clip of his screenshot: https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/14/blob26a7b37245677f76.png

When I zoomed in on the image enough, I noticed a 1 px offset from the bottom edge of the chat bubble. It shouldn't be there if the screenshot is genuine. Also, he obscured the name of the supposed client in several instances, however, it is clear from the visible text that the name does not match. I think this proves that he manipulated the screenshot in some editing program, and copied and pasted the text to make his false arguments against you. Maybe make this public and ask for the community's opinion?

I know nothing about his motive for creating fake evidence to discredit you. However, given his behavior in recent events, nothing would surprise me. I hope this information can help you in refuting his false claims, but I would appreciate it if you would leave my name out of it because I don't want to argue with that drama queen anymore.

I don't understand screenshot analysis, so I would be grateful to those of you who understand the subject better if you could help me with this.

As much as I am the visible face, there are many people who do not trust Royse777, and it is normal that they send me PMs, like another one who warned me that one of the mixers he works with could be a scam.

Just in case he thinks of deleting it, I have saved the images.





I edit to say that I just looked at my Telegram, which I hardly use, and I see that yes, that the fucking liar and crybaby has manipulated the screenshot, which I already knew, but could not prove, and the proof is seen in what is inside the chat bubble. My Telegram messages on that left side are seen in a straight line, and not with the jump that is seen in the screenshot of the fucking liar and crybaby, and as the private message said, there is a drop in name where the name is.

And before anyone says it, I'll say it: yes, I think this deserves a thread on its own to make it clear how manipulative he is. If it remains as a secondary topic in one of the other threads, then many people don't know what's going on.

For those who are not clear on where this comes from:

https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6158/61583381.html

How unfortunate today users like Poker Player who joined not even two and half years ago, thinks they are fine to insult me. Poker Player doesn't stop just insulting me but he is picking up my clients and telling them not to hire me because he thinks I will scam them. Do you think this is acceptable behavior?

https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6158/61584717.html

https://imgur.com/a/XlNrHOV
Let me know if you need a screen recording too. I deliberately removed their name by the way. Since then they never replied me.

[Poker Player]

Can you ask the same guy to examine these images too?
https://imgur.com/a/TeA5vAG

I don't trust your images. Well, I don't trust anything you say. In my Telegram they don't look like that. I'll wait to see what others say.

And by the way, you don't say anything about the unevenness in the name of the one who supposedly sends you a PM via Telegram?

Please stop creating alt accounts and sending messages to yourself.

Sure. The guy who has PMd me is a well known Legendary member. The other guy is lower ranked but far from newbie. Of course I'm not going to waste my time with alts to send me PMs.

Please stop sending messages to my clients or potential clients.
Please stop doing everything to frame me.

Fucking liar.

[lovesmayfamilis]

There is a site that allows you to determine whether a photo has been modified with the help of any editors or not. In 2018, this site made it easy to identify fake photos. If the photo was edited, then the site clearly issued a conclusion on editing. You can try checking your screenshots.

http://imageedited.com/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5055311.msg47163222#msg47163222

[LoyceV]

When I zoomed in on the image enough, I noticed a 1 px offset from the bottom edge of the chat bubble. It shouldn't be there if the screenshot is genuine.

Could it be Telegram is just not very accurate with it's chat bubbles? The exact size could depend on anything.

he obscured the name of the supposed client in several instances, however, it is clear from the visible text that the name does not match.

Can you explain what this means? I see a name on top, and a name in the chat. I can't say it's very clear.

Maybe make this public and ask for the community's opinion?

Why does the sender need you to do his dirty work? If someone has something to say, he should do it!

that the fucking liar and crybaby has
~
screenshot of the fucking liar and crybaby,

I find it difficult to take your arguments serious if you talk like this.

I don't trust your images.

I never trust screenshots, unless I trust the sender. Either way, they're useless as evidence.

[NeuroticFish]

There is a site that allows you to determine whether a photo has been modified with the help of any editors or not. In 2018, this site made it easy to identify fake photos. If the photo was edited, then the site clearly issued a conclusion on editing. You can try checking your screenshots.

http://imageedited.com/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5055311.msg47163222#msg47163222

Well, the images were edited anyway, since some names were hidden. So that website, while it can be useful in some cases, it isn't here.
I agree with LoyceV here:

I never trust screenshots, unless I trust the sender. Either way, they're useless as evidence.

[FatFork]

There is a site that allows you to determine whether a photo has been modified with the help of any editors or not. In 2018, this site made it easy to identify fake photos. If the photo was edited, then the site clearly issued a conclusion on editing. You can try checking your screenshots.

http://imageedited.com/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5055311.msg47163222#msg47163222

Well, the images were edited anyway, since some names were hidden. So that website, while it can be useful in some cases, it isn't here.

That's right. The website utilizes EXIF metadata analysis to detect fake photos. However, unlike real photos that can be fingerprinted and contain EXIF data, screenshots don't have the necessary EXIF information for this purpose. Besides, as you also noted, the images are no doubt already modified anyway (censored sender) so any further analysis is irrelevant.

I never trust screenshots, unless I trust the sender. Either way, they're useless as evidence.

I agree. Even if the screenshots are pixel perfect and free of that chat bubble glitch, that still doesn't guarantee their authenticity. Unfortunately, some members will accept such flimsy evidence at face value to incriminate a member.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

There is a site that allows you to determine whether a photo has been modified with the help of any editors or not. In 2018, this site made it easy to identify fake photos. If the photo was edited, then the site clearly issued a conclusion on editing. You can try checking your screenshots.

http://imageedited.com/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5055311.msg47163222#msg47163222

Well, the images were edited anyway, since some names were hidden. So that website, while it can be useful in some cases, it isn't here.

I don't know much technical details about the Image metadata, but what I also think is that once you upload an image to certain sites like facebook or even some image hosting sites like imgur, there is a very big chance that the metadata gets wiped off or altered when you download that same image and try to analyze.

This is probably to avoid the uploader exposing their information such as location where the image was taken to the public in the platforms. So in this case, it's useless to analyze an image that has been uploaded to imgur or postimg.cc

[Poker Player]

Could it be Telegram is just not very accurate with it's chat bubbles? The exact size could depend on anything.

I don't know, just in case I searched on the Internet and I can't see any chat bubbles like Royse's

Can you explain what this means? I see a name on top, and a name in the chat. I can't say it's very clear.

The second instance where the name is deleted supposedly from the chat bubble, it doesn't look like it's even with the rest of the text. If we add the drop at the corners of the bubbles, it gives the impression that something has been moved or edited, not simply erased.

Why does the sender need you to do his dirty work? If someone has something to say, he should do it!

In part I agree, and I have not promised to keep the secret, I've been simply asked for. If it were the case, I could say who he is, but as I said he is Legendary, positive trust, a established member of the community.

Here is another invention of Royse777, to say that I create alts to send me PMs, LOL, if he insists by that way I will try to convince the one who sent me the PM to be himself who says he sent it to me or authorize me to say it.

In any case, I don't think I'm going to do it without explicit agreement with that person if I'm not forced to because when Royse777 presented the garbage screenshot that at least doesn't prove anything, nobody questioned it and everyone considered it good, but on the other hand, when I published mine of my outbox I was told that it didn't prove anything. So, why am I going to publish it?

I find it difficult to take your arguments serious if you talk like this.

You are partly right, and since you are partly right, I will henceforth try to spare me the insults, but the part you are not right about is that the truth is what it is, regardless of the fact that you use some insults in several paragraphs.

For the rest, in the chat bubbles I see an inconsistency in the screenshots of Royse777, in some of them there is that drop and in others there is not. Neither in my Telegram nor in what I have been able to see on the Internet there is such a drop, let alone a drop in some chat bubbles and not in others.

On the other hand, the name supposedly deleted does not match with the rest of the text, it seems slightly elevated.

And finally, since Royse777 has deigned to respond, I ask him to publish the other evidence he said he had, such as that screen recording, which I have repeatedly asked him to publish.

Edit, I was leaving the forum, and when I took a last look at the image I saw another proof that it is a gross manipulation. The end of the name at the top does not match the end of the name in the text part:

[AB de Royse777]

The end of the name at the top does not match the end of the name in the text part:

Are you really this much ignorant or you are acting dumb? Let me ask how do you know the second one (the one on the text) is what? It could be their brand name or their nick name or anything else. The name on my bio is with emoji characters when I tell someone my name for example, then do I use it with the emoji characters? You are throwing possible everything that you can in the dark hoping to hit something to the target. How shameful and disrespectful even for the people who think you are still genuine.

If we had our previous trust system then your account would be give red by now by many. It's understandable that it's now only in used for trading feedback. Stop all these shameful acts you are on.

Anyway, continuing with you is just nonsense but how stupid I am that this will be my 2nd response to your BS. You are free to do whatever you want to do. In the future from this very moment, you and me will have no discussion. You can push me your best to response but Royse777 will never answer you.

It does not cost anything to be a better human. Best wish to you, have a good journey.

[Poker Player]

Are you really this much ignorant or you are acting dumb?

Hey Royse777. At least I see you have some character, but since I see you cornered I'm not going to insult you.

Let me ask how do you know the second one (the one on the text) is what? It could be their brand name or their nick name or anything else. The name on my bio is with emoji characters when I tell someone my name for example, then do I use it with the emoji characters? You are throwing possible everything that you can in the dark hoping to hit something to the target. How shameful and disrespectful even for the people who think you are still genuine.

I remind you that these are the appreciations of a person of great reputation in the forum with which I agree.

I repeat them:

1. The drop in chat bubbles, that neither in our Telegram nor searching the Internet we have been able to see and you say they are normal in your Telegram.

2. The name.

To what I said about it I will add another thing: in my Telegram conversations in PM I do not see the name in the text, only at the top. Surely it is due to my ignorance in Telegram but it would be necessary to see why a name appears in the text.

And what you say about emoji characters does not make sense because the endings of the names are not emoji characters, they are letters of the alphabet, one looks like an o clearly, the other could be an m or n.

If we had our previous trust system then your account would be give red by now by many. It's understandable that it's now only in used for trading feedback. Stop all these shameful acts you are on.

Surely, but you know what happens? The income I receive from the forum is a very small part of my total income, and for a long time now I have been spending less than I earn, I have an emergency fund and I invest, reinvest and reinvest. On top of that, I have four sources of income.

So if by doing my duty, which is to expose scammers when they scam and liars when they tell lies about me, I would be red tagged and not be able to participate in signature campaigns, the impact on my financial life would be very small.

Anyway, continuing with you is just nonsense but how stupid I am that this will be my 2nd response to your BS. You are free to do whatever you want to do. In the future from this very moment, you and me will have no discussion. You can push me your best to response but Royse777 will never answer you.

It does not cost anything to be a better human. Best wish to you, have a good journey.

You have manipulated the screenshots and are retreating in the hope that, again, since you have a lot of people who believe in you no matter what, this will come to nothing but.

1) You have not resolved reasonable doubts about the manipulation.

2) You have not provided the many other proofs you say you had about my PMing your clients, which in this very thread you have talked about in plural.

[joker_josue]

When I zoomed in on the image enough, I noticed a 1 px offset from the bottom edge of the chat bubble. It shouldn't be there if the screenshot is genuine.

Could it be Telegram is just not very accurate with it's chat bubbles? The exact size could depend on anything.

~~

I don't trust your images.

I never trust screenshots, unless I trust the sender. Either way, they're useless as evidence.

Just completing the information presented. Since I work with images, I am very attentive to these details of moving a pixel.

And agreeing that screenshots are always very difficult to prove something, I will just present a simple and quick analysis that I did on the presented statement.

It will be noted that I had to edit the image, to highlight the point.
This analysis was based on the chat opened by Telegram itself to present the news on the platform. So I believe it's something that any of us can check.

When I zoomed in on the image enough, I noticed a 1 px offset from the bottom edge of the chat bubble. It shouldn't be there if the screenshot is genuine.

This is the deviation that the user says:

As you can see, and without any kind of zoom, there is a deviation of 1 pixel next to the place to write the message.
But, you may also notice, that you are not seeing the full message. That is, the box for writing is in the middle of the message.

What happens when we scroll down and put the text box at the end of the message:

As you can see and without any kind of zoom applied, that 1 pixel deviation no longer exists.

Conclusion: This is an effect generated by Telegram itself, when the write box is in the middle of a written message. This should happen to all users who use Chrome on Windows to access Telegram. I say this because it was on a device like this that I did this test.


However, as I'm a bit stubborn, and what appears online is because it exists in code, I went deeper into the source code of the respective page.

Note:

As I marked in the image, this line is displayed, and a definition in the CSS of the active page is highlighted in yellow.

When you disable this option in the CSS, see what happens:

The 1-pixel line no longer appears.

Conclusion: this theoretical deviation that was mentioned by that anonymous user is nothing more than a configuration created by Telegram.


Honestly friends... stop these tantrums, please!  


EDIT: Link to all the images I posted: https://imgur.com/a/ANqatEY

EDIT 2: Regarding the username that was deleted from the Telegram images, nothing can be evaluated. A faint "n" could be an "a", an "m", a "b" or a "p".

[Poker Player]

-snip

Thank you for the detailed analysis. With this presentation I can trust you. Another thing: is it normal for the name to appear in the private message in the text? It does not appear in my Telegram. In a group yes, but not in PM.

EDIT 2: Regarding the username that was deleted from the Telegram images, nothing can be evaluated. A faint "n" could be an "a", an "m", a "b" or a "p".

And what is encircled in yellow? It is clearly seen that it does not have the same shape.

Edit: What I'm thinking here, if we see that the capture is correct once the two things I asked about are clarified, is that surely a possibility I was giving off as minimal is what actually happened: that a customer of Royse777 did indeed tell him that I had sent him a PM, when I did not.

I think I'm going to pass on what I'm told in PMs, although I thank the two people who sent them to me for doing so, and that I'm going to come by the reputation section less to de-escalate.

[joker_josue]

EDIT 2: Regarding the username that was deleted from the Telegram images, nothing can be evaluated. A faint "n" could be an "a", an "m", a "b" or a "p".

And what is encircled in yellow? It is clearly seen that it does not have the same shape.

One thing unrelated to another!

In the first yellow circle is the name of the person you are having the conversation with.
In the second yellow circle is something that was written by this person. In this case it may have been the name of some user, I don't know.

Since they are different things, they cannot be mixed in the analysis.

Analyzing screenshots involves having an understanding of how things work in that app. One must look at all the details, and where each situation fits.

I'm not trying to defend anyone with that. I just want to show that the analysis of a screenshot has to be much broader than simply looking at some images.*

As LoyceV has commented before: emails, PM, DM, or screenshots, do not serve as viable evidence as they are highly manipulable.



*Maybe I have to open a screenshot analysis service... Let me know what you think. 

[decodx]

When I zoomed in on the image enough, I noticed a 1 px offset from the bottom edge of the chat bubble. It shouldn't be there if the screenshot is genuine.

This is the deviation that the user says:
<...>

And what is encircled in red in this image? Isn't that the deviation Poker Player was talking about in the first post?



Royse77 says that this happens often in his Telegram, but I looked through dozens of screenshots on the forum and elsewhere on the Internet and didn't find it anywhere. There is probably some logical explanation, so I'm interested in your opinion on what could be the cause.

1. The drop in chat bubbles, that neither in our Telegram nor searching the Internet we have been able to see and you say they are normal in your Telegram.

*Maybe I have to open a screenshot analysis service... Let me know what you think. 

Sure, why not. If you have skills why not use them. 

[joker_josue]

Royse77 says that this happens often in his Telegram, but I looked through dozens of screenshots on the forum and elsewhere on the Internet and didn't find it anywhere. There is probably some logical explanation, so I'm interested in your opinion on what could be the cause.

1. The drop in chat bubbles, that neither in our Telegram nor searching the Internet we have been able to see and you say they are normal in your Telegram.

The explanation is given here, well documented:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5436210.msg61635611#msg61635611