Concerns regarding buying bitcoins offline(udercover cops) - What do you think?

[Bitcoiner88]

I was thinking to buy some bitcoins but i have few concerns since using Localbitcoin is i am not sure really the right way to go. I did hear from few friends which they warned me that feds are trying to use sites like that to catch people selling their bitcoin in $5K or more in person and then they would accuse you of laundering money. (i dont want to go into jail because of bitcoins)

What do you think about this things? I did hear some sort of stories occur in past. It might be an issue to be aware off or not?

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[BITCOIN-PIZZA-DAY]

Yes, they are doing that.

[seriouscoin]

I was thinking to buy some bitcoins but i have few concerns since using Localbitcoin is i am not sure really the right way to go. I did hear from few friends which they warned me that feds are trying to use sites like that to catch people selling their bitcoin in $5K or more in person and then they would accuse you of laundering money. (i dont want to go into jail because of bitcoins)

What do you think about this things? I did hear some sort of stories occur in past. It might be an issue to be aware off or not?

Didnt even need to read all that

Here is a simple solution for you, cops are supposed to say yes when you ask "are you a cop"?

Just ask everytime you meet a local trader.



  

[zombie_steve_jobs]

Here is a simple solution for you, cops are supposed to say yes when you ask "are you a cop"?

Just ask everytime you meet a local trader.

What? no. Haven't you ever watched reality TV cop shows? They lie about being a cop all the time!

[Bitcoiner88]

I highly doubt when someone is undercover they need to say yes when you ask him if he is a cop haha but it would definitely be epic. I see undercover feds as the ones that can get away with such things and kinda sure they would say no to it. But i did not work in law enforcement carrer to know the details.

It definitely is something to think about since why would they do that, what is their agenda on that.

[seriouscoin]

Here is a simple solution for you, cops are supposed to say yes when you ask "are you a cop"?

Just ask everytime you meet a local trader.

What? no. Haven't you ever watched reality TV cop shows? They about being a cop all the time!

Shhh,,.... you ruined the fun, party pooper

[MiningSensei]

1. Why don't you just split up the transactions
2. If they are trying to catch Bitcoin sellers, then why are you concerned about being busted as a buyer?
3. I don't think that it is a big issue as long as you do not buy everything in 1 massive transaction.
4. Buy on Coinbase and then put the coins through a tumbler into another wallet.  It turns out to be cheaper than most LocalBitcoin advertisements and is physically safer than Localbitcoins.


This is all assuming that you want your Bitcoins to be anonymous? If not, just buy on Coinbase and don't be sketched out about Bitcoin, it isn't like you are buying drugs

[dunand]

Why is it illegal to sell $5K of a commodity?

[Bitcoiner88]

Why is it illegal to sell $5K of a commodity?

I am speechless as you are but strange things occur. I heard the other day some guy was held on airport just talking about bitcoins. WTF?

[seriouscoin]

Why is it illegal to sell $5K of a commodity?

I hope you're not serious. The OP is just being retard for not understanding the news report.

Its not illegal to buy and sell bitcoin.

[jc01480]

I would think that having the person you trade with sign an acknowledgement form indicating that the transaction is still responsible for all financial reporting requirements under <yourCountryHere> laws and that in no way is this transaction meant to circumvent these laws.  

What you want to remove is the "intent" element.  Try to comply as much as you know how to.  I'm not a lawyer, but I've worked some of these cases.  If there is any mention of illegal activities, stop there.  Decline the transaction and walk away.  Report it.  Etc., etc..  

Perhaps one of our legal members could draw up something for traders to use and post it here.

[amspir]

Didnt even need to read all that

Here is a simple solution for you, cops are supposed to say yes when you ask "are you a cop"?

Just ask everytime you meet a local trader.

(sigh) You really need to educate yourself on that issue.   Completely wrong.

[seriouscoin]

Didnt even need to read all that

Here is a simple solution for you, cops are supposed to say yes when you ask "are you a cop"?

Just ask everytime you meet a local trader.

(sigh) You really need to educate yourself on that issue.   Completely wrong.

No way bitch!

My homies and i are deep in street. We're popping the question everytime we see a bitch "are you a cop bitch"

[Bitcoin General Store]

You probably heard about this story: http://www.virtualcurrencyreport.com/2014/02/two-florida-users-of-localbitcoins-com-arrested-for-money-laundering-and-unlicensed-money-transmission/

There are a couple of things to take away from this article.

1) "Where a seller of bitcoin knows (or has reason to believe) that the transaction involves proceeds derived from or to be used in furtherance of illegal activity, this could separately result in charges under state anti-money laundering laws."

The undercover agents reportedly very explicitly stated that they intended to use the proceeds to pursue illegal activities. Helping someone commit a crime is, of course, illegal which is one reason they were charged.

2) "...Florida law enforcement has determined that engaging in the business of direct sales of bitcoin in Florida or to Florida residents requires a Florida money services business." (Emphasis mine.)

Each state has their own money transmission laws and they do not necessarily coincide with every other state. At the Texas Bitcoin Conference, Russell Reese, Director of the Texas Department of Banking, specifically stated that Texas has no official standing on virtual currencies but that individual, person-to-person trades DID NOT constitute money transmission. (Interestingly, this was in regards to a question about Bitcoin ATMs and he indicated that even if one used a machine to facilitate selling your own bitcoins, it was still considered a "person-to-person" exchange.)

[softron]

Best not to sell that much bitcoins offline.

[Bitcoiner88]

i am not retarded as someon implied here, i was just curious what the general bitcoin community thinks regarding that, that is all.

Great conversation going on as i see.

[seriouscoin]

Don't sell to anyone who mentions anything illegal they would be doing with the coins and you are fine.

If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.

You could even make your buyer sign a bill of sale stating that they aren't going to do anything illegal with the coins. If they don't want to sign, don't sell.

A bill of sale is often used to protect the seller from various things (lawsuits, etc.). Maybe some intelligent lawyers could get together and create a "Bitcoin" bill of sale.

http://www.billofsale-form.com/blank-bill-of-sale-form/

Obviously, this harms anonymity, but it is an additional step required to protect yourself if you live in a place where silly crimes like "money laundering" can turn innocent people into criminals.

Actually just dont even ask the question. The Bill of sale is unnecessary.

[Bitcoiner88]

Don't sell to anyone who mentions anything illegal they would be doing with the coins and you are fine.

If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.

You could even make your buyer sign a bill of sale stating that they aren't going to do anything illegal with the coins. If they don't want to sign, don't sell.

A bill of sale is often used to protect the seller from various things (lawsuits, etc.). Maybe some intelligent lawyers could get together and create a "Bitcoin" bill of sale.

http://www.billofsale-form.com/blank-bill-of-sale-form/

Obviously, this harms anonymity, but it is an additional step required to protect yourself if you live in a place where silly crimes like "money laundering" can turn innocent people into criminals.

Actually just dont even ask the question. The Bill of sale is unnecessary.

Maybe it's unnecessary for you, but maybe it's necessary for someone else? That's the beauty of p2p, there are no set rules. Do what works for you. If you live in a fascist country that likes to try and trick it's law abiding citizens into doing something which has been declared illegal, you had better protect yourself.

Most definitely have to do that, even less rules apply there, i know it from first hand. It is a weird world anyway we live in but cool still.

[chronicaust]

Why is it illegal to sell $5K of a commodity?

it is usually $1000+ that's illegal, not $5000 and in Florida, it is $300

And it's illegal because the people with guns and tanks says it is.

[chronicaust]

And btw, it doesn't matter that much if they tell you the bitcoins will be used for illegal activity or not.  I mean that is a red flag but the guys arrested in FL for selling over $300 in bitcoin per day weren't charged with that.  They were charged with selling over $300 in BTC.

So bottom line is that if you sell over the legal max (which is $300 in Florida), then you CAN be arrested and prosecuted and sent to prison for that.

Don't listen to the other people in the thread who say otherwise...they are clueless.  Or just take some time and research it yourself and don't trust me or the others, but they are wrong.

And I'm not saying don't sell bitcoin, but just telling what the reality is.